Guild Wars 2

If all the cond damages have their damage reduced by toughness

God this forum is awful

yeah nerf condis while the majority of the classes use power.

What’s going to kill Revs then. A 1v2?

No, that would add to the powercreep. The problem is that conditions do too much damage, and condition specs can stack conditions too easily, while also being tanky.

No spec should be able to apply powerful condition damage and then literally be able to run away while the damage ticks away. Or worse yet, the conditions continue to tick while CCed. Power specs are shut down from CC or being forced to run. Condition specs aren’t as much.

How exactly do you figure nerfing condition damage is a power creep?

Zintrothen.1056:

No, that would add to the powercreep. The problem is that conditions do too much damage, and condition specs can stack conditions too easily, while also being tanky.

No spec should be able to apply powerful condition damage and then literally be able to run away while the damage ticks away. Or worse yet, the conditions continue to tick while CCed. Power specs are shut down from CC or being forced to run. Condition specs aren’t as much.

CC’ing a target halves torment damage (cant move) and causes confusion to deal only a fraction of it’s skill activation damage (cant use skills).

So there you go, CC is a friendly damage mitigation for someone stacked with confusion/torment :)

I agree. Toughness, vitality, protection and weakness should all affect condition damage. AoE resistance should be added to most mainhand weapons as well. Condition damage is wayyyyyyyyyyy too OP in this meta. Dragonhunters do so much burning, condi scrapper are everywhere and do you see how much confusion, poison, bleeding and CONFUSION they can stack?! Not to mention those annoying condi druids with perma roots and perma bleeds, poison and confusion burning and poison and torment. I just hate how many condi builds there are at the moment. Don’t you just hate it when you log into a match and you have like 5 condi people on the enemy team? Condi Dh, condi scrapper, condi Mercenary amulet chrono with 10 sec moa 2x, condi warr, condi necro ? How do you even fight that? And they all run such tanky amulets LOL!

Zintrothen.1056:

No, that would add to the powercreep. The problem is that conditions do too much damage, and condition specs can stack conditions too easily, while also being tanky.

Sure that’s why most of the meta is power.

Zintrothen.1056:

No spec should be able to apply powerful condition damage and then literally be able to run away while the damage ticks away. Or worse yet, the conditions continue to tick while CCed. Power specs are shut down from CC or being forced to run. Condition specs aren’t as much.

Well the difference with power spec is that when he runs away, the damage is already done. Also condi specs are shut down by cc: no application means no damage.

About condi, think to that:
There’s more ways to mitigate condition damage than power damage, expecially in the common builds.
Condition damage is still affected by all the Skills that make you unable to hit the enemy (example: blind, block, CC), but also have a dedicated boon that reduce to 0 the Damage and any Effects of a condition (no poison heal reduced, no cripple, no fear -that is more a CC than an condi buth ANet don’t like to make it a CC-, immobility, weakness, vulnerability), and also you can Clean conditions, making them inflict up to 90% lesser damage. About direct damage there’s only Protection and weakness that reduce it’s damage, and only for a fixed .
If you hit a enemy that use protection and you have weakness, you have 50 chance to inflict only 35-40% of your damage, but there’s also all the effects of vulnerability on him that increase your damage by 25%, making his protection barely noticeable. If you condiburst a enemy with 25 stack of vulnerability but that have Resistance, your damage is anyway 0. And if you burst down him but active a clean skill that clear all your stacks at once (example: druid celestial), or all your damage condi, your damage is between 10-33% of the burst.

Actually the meta is Direct Damage for different reasons:
-The damage you inflict can’t be cleaned, at last reduced, freqneutly only by 33% of Protection why there’s low weakness spam. (I see only necro use it, and only by corruption skills over might)
-The direct damage can seriously Burst down an enemy, when the condi need more time to stack an amount of condis able to kill someone
-There’s even lesser condibunker amulets (no celestial, no the condi version of cleric amulet, only one defensive stat if you want to play condi)
-More amulets that grant power,precision,ferocity and a defensive stat, making direct damage more viable in different ways
-Basicly no more bunker amulets at all, making direct damage free to burst any enemy (unless activing defensive skills)
-Faster application of direct damage over no-more bunker amulets user, making conditions weaker why simply inflict damage slower than direct damage. (Is simply harder fight an enemy that hit you faster and with more damage than what you can do)

There’s a reason why there’s a so large amount of Direct damage over condition damage.
Then, the conditiond amage is still dangerous, can be huge if used by some classes and can kill you. But I fear more a Direct damage class than a condi one, just why kill me faster and easier.

Tim.6450:

Zintrothen.1056:

No, that would add to the powercreep. The problem is that conditions do too much damage, and condition specs can stack conditions too easily, while also being tanky.

Sure that’s why most of the meta is power.

Zintrothen.1056:

No spec should be able to apply powerful condition damage and then literally be able to run away while the damage ticks away. Or worse yet, the conditions continue to tick while CCed. Power specs are shut down from CC or being forced to run. Condition specs aren’t as much.

Well the difference with power spec is that when he runs away, the damage is already done. Also condi specs are shut down by cc: no application means no damage.

that and the reason necro is so bad is that you just apply a ton of pressure at the start and while they take 10 seconds to respawn you get to take the point.

Ok nerf condi. But nerf more power damage, actually insta kill dh, rev, war, thief, chrono
Even power assist tempest and druid. So power is actually > condi.
Weakness, toughness, protection is cover to mitige power damage.
Actually all power build have blocks, evade, cc, burst to mitige condi damage.

This is why condi isn’t viable in pvp I guess.

Try pressing any button on any elite spec. It will likely either negate or cleanse your conditions. If you press each in turn then you’ll not have to worry about them at all.

I hope this solves your problem.

MethaneGas.8357:

And they all run such tanky amulets LOL!

The only condition amulets right now with toughness are Rabid and Wanderer.

Viper, Sinister, Rampager and Destroyer are 100% pure glass cannon – more risky than certain power only amulets (ie Demolisher). I often get one shot when playing Viper mesmer if I’m not playing carefully, whereas I have a much easier/more brainless time playing power mesmer with Demolisher.

Carrion and Sage are not tanky at all – the vitality is easily broken through with direct damage.

Sure in wvw condition builds can pad out defensive stats and be obscenely powerful at the same time. But the amulet choices in pvp are currently too restrictive and skewed toward the glassy side of things such that many condition and hybrid builds are not tanky, especially when considering the direct damage output certain builds can deal which eats through any amount of defensive stat in seconds.

@ Curunen,
I know, I agree 100% with what you said :P
My whole post was satire / sarcasm >:)

Saiyan.1704:

What’s going to kill Revs then. A 1v2?

Im pretty sure that goes for every class in the game at this point. Mid fights are shorter then the 1 vs 1 fights now.

BrennoPereira.8049:

If all the cond damages have their damage reduced by toughness

95% of all amulet that provided toughness have been removed in SPvP.

So this essentially makes this a 5% good idea.

Protection should reduce damage of condition dmg. Or even better, give a new stat like toughness so we can stack it like other stats that will reduce condition dmg by some margin.

^ If you do this, then make condis scale off of all % damage increase traits out there

And there’s some traits already in place that reduce condi dmg by about 20%. I know engi has one and necro as well.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Zintrothen.1056:

No, that would add to the powercreep. The problem is that conditions do too much damage, and condition specs can stack conditions too easily, while also being tanky.

No spec should be able to apply powerful condition damage and then literally be able to run away while the damage ticks away. Or worse yet, the conditions continue to tick while CCed. Power specs are shut down from CC or being forced to run. Condition specs aren’t as much.

CC’ing a target halves torment damage (cant move) and causes confusion to deal only a fraction of it’s skill activation damage (cant use skills).

So there you go, CC is a friendly damage mitigation for someone stacked with confusion/torment

Too bad those are the 2 least damaging condi’s out there, and only 2 of 7 damaging condi’s.

Meanwhile CC stops 0% of the 1 direct damage.

I really don’t get why people QQ so much about condis when every class has abundant means of avoiding and/or cleansing condis. Warriors with things like berserker stance and blocks and healing signet, guardians with their tons of condi clear skills, heralds with their resistance spam, druids with their ‘13 condi clear’ on cele avatar form, scrappers with elixirs and healing turret and trait, daredevils with their perma stealthing and dodging and shadowstepping, necros with all their condi xfers, mesmers w/ inspiration trait line which is awesome sustain, and eles with all the heals and condi clears from water and their traits.

Also, every class has at least two dodges.

Also, do people realize that the whole point of condi damage is to provide a counter for builds/classes with really high armor and/or lots of protection from direct damage like, say, berserkers w/ their 1000 extra toughness every time they stun break and their double endure pain? And you want toughness to affect condi damage? Pfft. You’re basically saying condi damage shouldn’t do the thing that it’s meant to do.

And the reason why condi builds are able to have high toughness/vitality is because their damage is damage dealt over time, so they need to be tanky in order to survive long enough not just for their condis to do damage, but to be able to keep reapplying condi pressure when those condis get cleared or negated with resistance.

The reasons why most people keep dying to condis, I find, are because: 1) they panic as soon as they see 2-3 condis on them, 2) they blow through their condi clears too fast or don’t carry enough condi clears and/or they have a bad build, 3) they don’t dodge/block/invuln when they should, 4) they’re in a team fight and a condi opponent bursts them after the player has already used their sustain fighting against other opponents, in which case there’s really nothing you can do….whether your opponent is condi or power, if you’ve got nothing left to protect you from damage in general, you’re gonna prolly go down; it’s got nothing to do with condis, it’s just that sometimes before you can reset after fighting one person, a second person immediately shows up to fight you, and since you’ve got your sustain on CD’s, they’ll prolly win.

Returning to the matter of condi builds being too tanky…I play both power and condi builds on diff’t classes, and I’ve fought people on classes like thief or warrior who landed crits on me for like almost half my health even though I’m running a tanky condi build, so please stop making it sound like condi builds have super high toughness and it’s impossible to deal any direct damage to them, because that’s just not the case.

And for people who QQ about how they’re running a glassy power build while their opponent runs a tanky condi build….what does it matter if you’re glassy and your opponent is tanky? They’re a condi build! Toughness doesn’t matter! In terms of direct damage, they deal almost none! All their damage is condi based, so it doesn’t matter if you have high toughness or not. And even if your opponent is tanky, you’re still going to be able to land pretty high numbers on them if you’re running glass cannon. Third, if your opponent is running a hybrid damage build, like carrion or sinister or viper, then they’re going to be as glassy as you in terms of toughness/armor, so it’ll be a game of who can burst who first.

Finally, two thoughts left…one, condis like burn and confusion are supposed to have high ticks…they’re burst condis…they do high damage even with low stacks but generally for a much shorter duration than other damaging condis like poison or bleed…that’s how they were designed…two, you guys should realize that asking for condi damage to be affected by toughness/armor is a double-edged sword…if you’re going to ask for things like armor and damage reduction to affect condis, then things like ferocity (which everyone has 150% of at least) and damage increase sources should affect condis as well….sure, if you have high armor, you’ll have more protection…but if you’re glassy, then the condis will prolly do more damage than they do now, especially considering any sources of damage increases the condi player may have….so ask yourselves, is that what you really want as a glass cannon player?