Guild Wars 2

As Stronghold is competitive PVE with elements of PVP and WVW ,i am interesting do you plan to give something to actual PVP players!?

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

theoretically yes!!!
good try to be smartas……xD

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

The only problem is that what you said is complete kitten. There is no way you’re going to win in conquest by not fighting anyone unless the whole enemy team afks. On the other hand it is possible to win in SH by not fighting anyone since each team had one lord to kill and you’re not required to defend it.

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

lol. Try not fighting someone and let me know how that goes for you. Time for you to get out of those daily farming servers.

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

Try PvPing outside of Rank farm servers. I am not a fan of conquest, but it differs

No more conquest maps. 2v2 please. Lets get serious about this now that they’ve had their fun adding a bit of a “GvG” feel to the game, time to cash in where it really counts!

The 1st response was joking because it’s a dumb thread premise, but in all seriousness, I’ve won plenty of conquest games without even getting the daily 3 PvP kills. If you backcap faster than the other team caps, you win without fighting anyone.

This can be a thief teleporting on Khylo, the other team doing too much team fighting, etc.

Lols, love how one comment can derail an entire thread.

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

So you’re saying that in conquest, when two players, from two different teams stand on a point, they don’t have to fight in order to win points?

Deathmatches are PPT too aren’t they? It’s not like wiping the entire party is the win condition, its getting the most points via kills, PPT via PvP. Wait… That kind of sounds a bit like Conquest, PPT via PvP on nodes.

To the OP:

New conquest map would be nice, but adding new PvP modes/mechanics are a better investment, imo. Stonghold was fun and different, but can’t be considered real PvP when the focus is PPT via PvE with a bit of PvP.

Duka.5864:

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

theoretically yes!!!
good try to be smartas……xD

Duka got it.

I wrote the reply in terms based on the wording they used. If you look at my post history you will see I don’t play this card much but it made sense.

Would I like to see new maps, yes. Conquest and Deathmatch. But if you call Stronghold pure PVE, then you will need to lump Conquest in there as well. Have seen ranked matches where people avoid each other in Conquest. Its a simple test, can one side win in conquest without actually fighting. Yes. So what makes it not so, the players choosing to fight. Stronghold is the same. If you avoid the fights, you are right you are not going to fight. Do people do the same thing in Conquest, if you say no then you are lying to yourself. So tell me in Courtyard, if one side does not fight, how many points do they get?

So if you don’t like mechanics on the new map provide feedback that’s actionable, else the first answer fits. I am not a fan of the Courtyard map but it is the only true PvP map based on the definition being used in this thread.

lol @ whatever the farm thing is, you lost me there. Queue mostly unranked and ranked so this has got to be a custom arena of some sort and don’t play the custom arenas at this time. Nice try though, swing and a miss.

Laraley.7695:

On the other hand it is possible to win in SH by not fighting anyone since each team had one lord to kill and you’re not required to defend it.

You are also not required to defend in Conquest. People do, but you are not required.

That it in a nutshell. So why do you not defend your lord, but you are saying you will stand and defend an open spot of ground? What’s the difference except that in this case the ground takes offense to you standing on it and swings back?

Aka why not choose to fight in Stronghold? Did you avoid the fights? If so, why?

I guess that’s what I don’t get with some of these replies. Did people underestimate the fact that if you don’t defend you will lose if the other team is faster on the assault? Did everyone that lost and didn’t change tactics blame the map versus their own strategy? This the same as Conquest except first point capture wins.

style.6173:

lol. Try not fighting someone and let me know how that goes for you.

So you have never had a thief of nikie warrior continuously back capping on you while you are fighting over a point?

I like Conquest, but there are PvE aka WvW elements to it since it is PPT. Sometimes you fighting and holding multiple enemies in one spot allows the rest of your team to cap points that aren’t being contested. You will die, but your team will win.

ChoChoBo.6503:

Lols, love how one comment can derail an entire thread.

Thread details were a derailment from the start. If the question had just been about new Conquest maps I would have given it a +1, though I want more game modes too. Imagine a capture the flag type game that made people cross the map and therefore have moving fights. While at it I like the Deathmatch mode too but Courtyard feels too small for it. Some more map options there would be nice too.

But add in the lets lump SH into PvE, that could have been left in all the other SH threads don’t you think?

ChoChoBo.6503:

To the OP:

New conquest map would be nice, but adding new PvP modes/mechanics are a better investment, imo. Stonghold was fun and different, but can’t be considered real PvP when the focus is PPT via PvE with a bit of PvP.

Same question to you that I raised above to Laraley. How did your games go that avoided fights? Did both sides just rush the lord and no one defended? I ask since I think I ran into more fights in SH then I see at times from people in Conquest, and there seemed even more 1v1 fights in SH then in Conquest where alot of people will run from a 1v1 to go cap an empty point. And not saying you shouldn’t fight on the points in Conquest, you should be unless your side controls all the points and you are the distraction.

So what happened that some of us found fights and others did not. That’s the point that might need to be addressed if, and mind you if, its a map/game mode issue versus people changing their strategy. Good hunting to you!

@ TheGrimm.5624 " But if you call Stronghold pure PVE"
As i remember i wrote Stronghold is competitive PVE with elements of PVP and WVW!
In my opinion Npc part(archers & DB)+supply part are badly designed it will make game mode mediocre but it could be great sadly!!!

Duka.5864:

@ TheGrimm.5624 " But if you call Stronghold pure PVE"
As i remember i wrote Stronghold is competitive PVE with elements of PVP and WVW!
In my opinion Npc part(archers & DB)+supply part are badly designed it will make game mode mediocre but it could be great sadly!!!

Fair.

I concur I see merit in this game mode, hence why I am hoping people provide feedback in the feedback threads. I know that the devs in the end may not act on that feedback, but if you don’t provide ideas then you never know. Good hunting!

TheGrimm.5624:

Laraley.7695:

On the other hand it is possible to win in SH by not fighting anyone since each team had one lord to kill and you’re not required to defend it.

You are also not required to defend in Conquest. People do, but you are not required.

That it in a nutshell. So why do you not defend your lord, but you are saying you will stand and defend an open spot of ground? What’s the difference except that in this case the ground takes offense to you standing on it and swings back?

Aka why not choose to fight in Stronghold? Did you avoid the fights? If so, why?

I guess that’s what I don’t get with some of these replies. Did people underestimate the fact that if you don’t defend you will lose if the other team is faster on the assault? Did everyone that lost and didn’t change tactics blame the map versus their own strategy? This the same as Conquest except first point capture wins.

Yes, you are. If you’re not going to defend in conquest, you’re going to lose. There’s no way you can win in conquest without that.

I didn’t lose in HS, I won by soloing lord many times in previous beta, wasn’t fun. You might lose because the other team is faster, but you still can without defending anything in SH.

Laraley.7695:

Yes, you are. If you’re not going to defend in conquest, you’re going to lose. There’s no way you can win in conquest without that.

I didn’t lose in HS, I won by soloing lord many times in previous beta, wasn’t fun. You might lose because the other team is faster, but you still can without defending anything in SH.

I am guessing we are seeing different matches then. I see a lot of matches won without ever having to defend in Conquest. There is quite often a lot of people circling in Conquest and always people back capping. Big difference to be me is in SH, you can’t avoid the defense in some cases because to your point, once someone solo’s your lord, its over. You don’t get extra opportunities that you do in Conquest.

So still trying to pinpoint your issue. Is the fact that once you took the main objective and it was over the biggest issue here? Did you have any matches where you won where there were people defending? Key point might still be that the lord needs to be stronger to prevent those solo kills/caps. Make it more of a team effort to win that final point and therefore more likely result in a fight at the lord. Fine line there though since the lord with a player defending was killing two and three others at times. Or at least in matches I saw. Wasn’t always the case but better in the second beta then the first.

TheGrimm.5624:

Laraley.7695:

Yes, you are. If you’re not going to defend in conquest, you’re going to lose. There’s no way you can win in conquest without that.

I didn’t lose in HS, I won by soloing lord many times in previous beta, wasn’t fun. You might lose because the other team is faster, but you still can without defending anything in SH.

I am guessing we are seeing different matches then. I see a lot of matches won without ever having to defend in Conquest. There is quite often a lot of people circling in Conquest and always people back capping. Big difference to be me is in SH, you can’t avoid the defense in some cases because to your point, once someone solo’s your lord, its over. You don’t get extra opportunities that you do in Conquest.

So still trying to pinpoint your issue. Is the fact that once you took the main objective and it was over the biggest issue here? Did you have any matches where you won where there were people defending? Key point might still be that the lord needs to be stronger to prevent those solo kills/caps. Make it more of a team effort to win that final point and therefore more likely result in a fight at the lord. Fine line there though since the lord with a player defending was killing two and three others at times. Or at least in matches I saw. Wasn’t always the case but better in the second beta then the first.

Okay, you don’t understand.

There is no way you’re going to win in conquest if NO ONE on your team will bother defend a point.

You can win in SH without defending.

Laraley.7695:

Okay, you don’t understand.

There is no way you’re going to win in conquest if NO ONE on your team will bother defend a point.

You can win in SH without defending.

I am sad to say your right I don’t understand. I have played plenty of matches where one team did nothing but attack. No one stayed on a given point. No defense. These have lead to many matches where its 500 to 100. I have also seen matches where back capping, which means no defense lead to blow out matches. People out PPTing their enemy by simply running from point to point faster.

I am not saying that defending isn’t a viable tactic, but its not a requirement. On top of that one stationary target means you have one player out of the action completely. In Conquest that can a hindrance if they control 2 points to your one.
Again Conquest allows you to avoid fighting, in Stronghold, its doom if you don’t keep your base. You get one point to cap. So why not defend in SH?

I think that’s what you encountered is that the player base that is used to Conquest was not putting enough weight on the fact that you can’t lose that one objective else you lose. Now the question you should ask yourself is that if you believe no one can win in Conquest without defending, why wouldn’t you put that same thought into SH where that one point is some much more important?

So would you not say that if a side does not defend in Stronghold it will lose as well like you yourself believe in Conquest? Is the fact that winner takes all the issue here where as Conquest is more forgiving if people make mistakes in their tactics? It is a sudden death situation, this I think we both believe.

Side note, as long as the map allows PPT, it means fighting is not required because points will tick on their own if something is controlled. That by itself means you do not have to fight. Boring as anything but it shows you do not have to fight. The difference here is that in Conquest you also don’t even have to fight even an NPC to win.

Ever get stuck in a Conquest mode where you were 1v1? Did during some DDOS attacks last year and people were getting DC’d left and right. That’s what showed me you could win in Conquest without ever fighting since it came down to whoever would hold 2 points to one will win. Less likely that no one will fight if more players are present, but again, not required, but people choose to fight.

I really am trying to figure out your mindset since there are improvements that could yet be done to make SH all the better of a game mode. Based on your feedback I would further up the lord strength, and grant more points to player kills and team points for kills while defending. ANet is trying to not encourage people from just bunkering down and not attacking though since they saw that in the early test, so again its a matter of tuning.

Good hunting!

Edit: Need to watch abbreviating Stronghold and the using it. Hello incoming kittens lol.

TheGrimm.5624:

Laraley.7695:

Okay, you don’t understand.

There is no way you’re going to win in conquest if NO ONE on your team will bother defend a point.

You can win in SH without defending.

I am sad to say your right I don’t understand. I have played plenty of matches where one team did nothing but attack. No one stayed on a given point. No defense. These have lead to many matches where its 500 to 100. I have also seen matches where back capping, which means no defense lead to blow out matches. People out PPTing their enemy by simply running from point to point faster.

I am not saying that defending isn’t a viable tactic, but its not a requirement. On top of that one stationary target means you have one player out of the action completely. In Conquest that can a hindrance if they control 2 points to your one.
Again Conquest allows you to avoid fighting, in Stronghold, its doom if you don’t keep your base. You get one point to cap. So why not defend in SH?

I think that’s what you encountered is that the player base that is used to Conquest was not putting enough weight on the fact that you can’t lose that one objective else you lose. Now the question you should ask yourself is that if you believe no one can win in Conquest without defending, why wouldn’t you put that same thought into SH where that one point is some much more important?

So would you not say that if a side does not defend in Stronghold it will lose as well like you yourself believe in Conquest? Is the fact that winner takes all the issue here where as Conquest is more forgiving if people make mistakes in their tactics? It is a sudden death situation, this I think we both believe.

Side note, as long as the map allows PPT, it means fighting is not required because points will tick on their own if something is controlled. That by itself means you do not have to fight. Boring as anything but it shows you do not have to fight. The difference here is that in Conquest you also don’t even have to fight even an NPC to win.

Ever get stuck in a Conquest mode where you were 1v1? Did during some DDOS attacks last year and people were getting DC’d left and right. That’s what showed me you could win in Conquest without ever fighting since it came down to whoever would hold 2 points to one will win. Less likely that no one will fight if more players are present, but again, not required, but people choose to fight.

I really am trying to figure out your mindset since there are improvements that could yet be done to make SH all the better of a game mode. Based on your feedback I would further up the lord strength, and grant more points to player kills and team points for kills while defending. ANet is trying to not encourage people from just bunkering down and not attacking though since they saw that in the early test, so again its a matter of tuning.

Good hunting!

Edit: Need to watch abbreviating Stronghold and the using it. Hello incoming kittens lol.

Maybe don’t play hotjoin? The truth is that you cannot win in conquest without ever coming in contact with another player, however it’s possible in SH. And please don’t bring stuff like ‘’if your whole team dc’s, no one has to fight anyone’’.

Remember when they said new maps were easy to produce? Yet we haven’t had a new compeitive map in almost 3 years. 3 years. 3 years. 3 years. 3 years. 3 YEARS. 3 YEARS. 3 YEARS 3 YEARS

Laraley.7695:

Maybe don’t play hotjoin? The truth is that you cannot win in conquest without ever coming in contact with another player, however it’s possible in SH. And please don’t bring stuff like ‘’if your whole team dc’s, no one has to fight anyone’’.

Sorry swing and miss, can’t remember last time I did a hotjoin, we are talking ranked and unranked games. Stay on topic.

I will leave you with we agree to disagree to try and keep this constructive. Your truth is false though unless you are talking Deathmatch since all PPT requires is ticks of a controlled objective which does require not that you fight anyone. The fact that no one choose to fight and/or defend in your SH matches is the real issue here, but there is nothing preventing the same situation in Conquest, aka it is not a requirement to win, simply holding the points longer is.

I think the only thing we will agree on is it takes longer to lose on Conquest then it does on Stronghold since Conquest is more forgiving if you use the wrong tactics. Good hunting.

No no more conquest maps there is no valid reason to for now.

I don’t really care for new conquest map,i am just really sad that Stronghold is not near to competitive pvp and i absolutely have no desire to play it in this state,but it is ok dungeon speed runners will love it !

Yes more conquest maps. There should be at least 10.

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

haha made my day thanks man

TheGrimm.5624:

Laraley.7695:

Maybe don’t play hotjoin? The truth is that you cannot win in conquest without ever coming in contact with another player, however it’s possible in SH. And please don’t bring stuff like ‘’if your whole team dc’s, no one has to fight anyone’’.

Sorry swing and miss, can’t remember last time I did a hotjoin, we are talking ranked and unranked games. Stay on topic.

I will leave you with we agree to disagree to try and keep this constructive. Your truth is false though unless you are talking Deathmatch since all PPT requires is ticks of a controlled objective which does require not that you fight anyone. The fact that no one choose to fight and/or defend in your SH matches is the real issue here, but there is nothing preventing the same situation in Conquest, aka it is not a requirement to win, simply holding the points longer is.

I think the only thing we will agree on is it takes longer to lose on Conquest then it does on Stronghold since Conquest is more forgiving if you use the wrong tactics. Good hunting.

Well, you were the one saying you’ve had lots and lots games when no one was fighting anyone but capping points rather in conquest. This only happens when you do hotjoin or your MMR is extremely low. Maybe you should try to change your strategy, then you’ll win a few games and be fighting better people who will engage in the game, too.

Also, your objective is to have most points, but since both teams have to compete for those points, you’ll likely meet a player during those games once your improve your MMR!

Laraley.7695:

Well, you were the one saying you’ve had lots and lots games when no one was fighting anyone but capping points rather in conquest. This only happens when you do hotjoin or your MMR is extremely low. Maybe you should try to change your strategy, then you’ll win a few games and be fighting better people who will engage in the game, too.

Also, your objective is to have most points, but since both teams have to compete for those points, you’ll likely meet a player during those games once your improve your MMR!

Yawn. So you can’t prove your point so you turn to the insult card? Quality arguments. Just don’t queue for Stronghold and you will be happier since you obviously can not deal with change and aren’t willing to provide constructive discussion on it. Conversation over.

Duka.5864:

As Stronghold is competitive PVE with elements of PVP and WVW ,i am interesting do you plan to give something to actual PVP players!?

Why would you want a new map of the same boring game mode ? Give us proper deathmatch maps already,from 2on2 to 4on4.

TheGrimm.5624:

Laraley.7695:

Well, you were the one saying you’ve had lots and lots games when no one was fighting anyone but capping points rather in conquest. This only happens when you do hotjoin or your MMR is extremely low. Maybe you should try to change your strategy, then you’ll win a few games and be fighting better people who will engage in the game, too.

Also, your objective is to have most points, but since both teams have to compete for those points, you’ll likely meet a player during those games once your improve your MMR!

Yawn. So you can’t prove your point so you turn to the insult card? Quality arguments. Just don’t queue for Stronghold and you will be happier since you obviously can not deal with change and aren’t willing to provide constructive discussion on it. Conversation over.

Haha, I’ve provided feedback. Also, I would like to not queue for it, but there will be no sepearate queue :/

And I’m sorry, but if you tell me you’ve had plenty of games when no one was fighting anyone, this does only happen in hotjoin and if you have low MMR. If that insulted you, okay. But you were the one saying this happens to you a lot. I haven’t had this once I stepped my feet out of hotjoin.