Guild Wars 2

I was all about nerfing the cele ammy but lately I’ve been thinking….

Why not leave cele and zerker ammies as they are? Almost every prof has a viable zerker spec, and many have viable cele specs. The interaction between the two amulets is pretty fun to watch. Most of us absolutely loved the finals.

So why not buff all the others? For example:
- why not give cleric some crit to buff its damage?
- why not give rabid some more power to truly make it a Condi-based powerhouse? The zerker version of the Condi specs.
- alternatively, give rampager and carrion a little bit of sustain

These are just examples, maybe bad ones. But if something works, no need to fix it. To introduce new builds into the game, why not just make the other 80% of the amulets viable at a high skill level? Thoughts?

Just let us have full control of our stats.

You will get flamed because some don’t want to see healing thief or guardian condi. As long as players and devs won’t expand the archetypes to breach their barriers it’s not going to happen,balance as well.

I still feel some boundaries need to exist for balance purposes. Even buffing a few amulets would open up a dozen new builds. As I mentioned, cleric amulet specs just don’t do any damage, so buff its damage. Carrion and rampager just don’t have enough sustain, so give them some healing power. Small steps like this would go a long way.

We will have complaints of extra stats on some… It all comes down to if the class has traits and skills that support those 3 stats and synergies…with attached stats on traits and their restrictions because they follow archetypes and their imbalance it won’t happen.

The ideal would be to have 2-3 viable version of every playstyle for every class they weren’t serious on that during development.

Yeah actually I agree with this.

Why take a good D/D cele ele or good P/D thief out of the game, but instead create a good counter to it in ALL other classes but not a guaranteed counter.

Im personally not for seeing condi guards, but better protection from condi in guards, like renewed focus renewing all utility skills as well as virtues.

There is no spec specific utilities so what is mediocre in one can be OP in another,condi guard is a thing just not part of conquest meta, you shouldn’t show those same restrictions in a thread promoting against it. Specialisation makes fix that but so far Revenant is the best designed class in the game so far with him they took diversity seriously.

Which is easier?

Buffing 18 other amulet or nerfing 1 amulet?

I’d be so totally down with a fixed stat budget to allocate, with a reasonable maximum allocation per stat of course, forcing the player to spread over at least 4 stats.

For too much of the time this game has been live, some professions have been unable to properly itemize in PvP whereas some professions have an amulet that just so happens to fit their meta build properly. It’s just a bit ghetto-rigged in general.

runeblade.7514:

Which is easier?

Buffing 18 other amulet or nerfing 1 amulet?

This as well,the whole amulet and attached stats is bad design,to bring cele down all that is needed is buff of boon hate or nerf of boon spam the amulet can stay untouched but the diversity issues would still be here.

It’d be nice if other amulets were actually viable, some are ok like rabid and soldier but some are complete and utter garbage like valk, what exactly were they thinking with this amulet?

We need a proper bruiser amulet for non-sustain classes: POWER VIT TOUGHNESS CRIT CRIT DAMAGE.

Where’s the valk + knight gear combo amulet that I can do in WVW/PVE? Where’s the soldier + zerker or soldier + valk/knight combo I can do in WVW?

Why isn’t there something as simple as power/precision/VIT? Shouldn’t that be valk’s amulet? Since when does valk = toughness and healing power(as well as power/crit damage)? Last I checked it’s power, vit, and crit damage.

The amulet system is utter trash.

Don’t need to buff the amulets; that leads to power creep. Just need to allow more stat customization.

Celestial stats are only better than other 3-stat items if you can make good use of 6 or more of the 7 stats. If you can only use 5 stats from celestial well, then you’d be better off with a combination of 3-stat items. This is true for total stat points but also because celestial has a relatively low power value, and power gives the strongest returns on damage compared to other stats.

Note the word combination from above. We can’t do that in PvP and it’s a huge problem with the PvP stat system. Celestial is the only amulet anywhere close to a proper allocation of survival stats and offensive stats. Most builds for PvP need a lot of power and would prefer a healthy amount of precision, ferocity, toughness, and vitality with the amounts differing by build and profession. We don’t need choices with over 900 toughness or vitality or 0 precision.

I’d suggest the following:

1. In the short-term, create a 50% berserker / 50% soldier amulet. This is about where most builds would want to end up and can be done within the constraints of the current amulet system. It shows the merits of more stat customization.
2. As a final solution, split the current amulet choice into multiple items. I suggest amulet/ring/ring at 50/25/25% of the current amulet stats.

The reason given by ANet for the current system is that older systems (amulet+jewel at launch and 5 accessories early in beta) were too confusing for players. But at the same time, those players get frustrated when they can’t kill anything (too tanky) or die instantly (too squishy) and can’t get anything in between.

Hah, I’m going to disagree with most of the people here.

Personally I think stat-customisation (even to the limited extent provided by amulets) is just waste complexity. It makes the game harder to balance, harder to understand, but it doesn’t really provide any additional good gameplay.

Is it really that deep, fun or exciting to think… “hmm… I have a zerker amulet on my build… but what if…. I SWITCH TO CELE? WOOHOO!!!” ?

Coming from other competitive games like RTS and Fighting games, I think truly worthwhile/fun/deep complexity comes from customisation that really changes your gameplay mechanics.

Using Ryu in Streetfighter is a totally different experience than Zangief, or in Starcraft, Zerg vs Terran, etc. In contrast, if you keep everything else the same, there’s not much different gameplay from one amulet on a build to another. (you just die faster, etc.)

Personally I think ANet should just get rid of all stat items from PvP (or even the whole game.) And get rid of all those boring “+10% damage/chance of something/defense/whatever” traits. Every trait should have a major impact on how your character works, like Ele’s Fresh Air or Arcane Evasion.

They can then balance the classes more easily by adjusting the base stats of each class, since players aren’t able to customise those stats anymore.

And the gameplay becomes better and less static. If someone is tanky, I want it to be because they are skilled at using their defensive abilities, not because they chose some items that gave them high defensive statistics. And similarly for doing damage, etc.

I would say nerf Cele until it is not clearly best amu for few classes. Problem right now is that every class want to in some way to use his amu to get advantage because it is clearly the best one. It should not be the case it just limits option to choose from. Do not over nerf it thought make it on level of zerker or even bit better.

Some customization would be great, but im worried people would just stack power and toughness (in a damage build) since they are usually considered strong stats and ignore healing, ferocity and such. Think of a power toughness ferocity amu with intelligence sigil for example.

Divide amulet to full accessory set.

why not an amulet where you can pick and choose how much you want of each stat?

Shiyo.3578:

It’d be nice if other amulets were actually viable, some are ok like rabid and soldier but some are complete and utter garbage like valk, what exactly were they thinking with this amulet?

We need a proper bruiser amulet for non-sustain classes: POWER VIT TOUGHNESS CRIT CRIT DAMAGE.

Where’s the valk + knight gear combo amulet that I can do in WVW/PVE? Where’s the soldier + zerker or soldier + valk/knight combo I can do in WVW?

Why isn’t there something as simple as power/precision/VIT? Shouldn’t that be valk’s amulet? Since when does valk = toughness and healing power(as well as power/crit damage)? Last I checked it’s power, vit, and crit damage.

The amulet system is utter trash.

If you use your brain, Valkyrie has the same damage as berserker. That’s why we have fury buffs and Intelligence sigil. This amulet rocks on hybrid warriors and rangers. Soldiers is excellent on hybrid warriors.

Now, yes it is true, a lot of amulets suck. Seeing magic amulet for 10 gold made me laugh so hard I nearly cried. It’s the WORST STAT COMBO EVVVVVVER. The 10g part is just, wow.
Rampagers has bad stat numbers, less total stats than zerk, or Valk.
Cavalier is ok, but Valk is more exciting and doesn’t cost 10g.
Zerk beats assassin any old day.
But in general, we should be able to choose our state, enables much more creativity. Also, enable givers, shamans and zealot stats.

Henrik.7560:

If you use your brain, Valkyrie has the same damage as berserker. That’s why we have fury buffs and Intelligence sigil.

Not always. Not everyone has good access to Fury and Sigil of Intelligence only works well with high damage singular attacks; not multi-hit attacks. Valkyrie also has no vitality, so it’s a dangerous choice for Elementalist, Guardian, or Thief.

If you buff the others, what you get is power creep.

If between two items with the same stat sum one is used way more and it’s proven to be more effective, the problem won’t be on the item. They have the same sum of stats. The problem will be on the stats themselves that the items increase.

Zerker uses direct dmg. Cele uses a bit of everything. How do you plan buffing others without the side effect of buffing those 2 even more?

Quadox.7834:

Some customization would be great, but im worried people would just stack power and toughness (in a damage build) since they are usually considered strong stats and ignore healing, ferocity and such. Think of a power toughness ferocity amu with intelligence sigil for example.

Limit how much you can stack on 1 stat for example a char in full power as main stat full ascended with no food how much power he has would be the limit for power and so on. That combination you mentioned would get killed by condition and celestial builds,toughness is weaker compared to damage mitigation or control.

Sagat.3285:

Quadox.7834:

Some customization would be great, but im worried people would just stack power and toughness (in a damage build) since they are usually considered strong stats and ignore healing, ferocity and such. Think of a power toughness ferocity amu with intelligence sigil for example.

Limit how much you can stack on 1 stat for example a char in full power as main stat full ascended with no food how much power he has would be the limit for power and so on. That combination you mentioned would get killed by condition and celestial builds,toughness is weaker compared to damage mitigation or control.

Toughness and damage mitigation and control are different things. Toughness is a stat, damage mitigation and control comes from your specific profession. You can have both at the same time. Mesmer for example already run no condi remove- it certainly is not needed. =)

runeblade.7514:

Which is easier?

Buffing 18 other amulet or nerfing 1 amulet?

but cele/zerker meta exists for a reason. zerkers need to spike people down, and cele’s need to survive it while doing damage in return, holding points and sustaining teammates. other amulets simply need buffs to open up more specs that can do the same thing.

xDudisx.5914:

Zerker uses direct dmg. Cele uses a bit of everything. How do you plan buffing others without the side effect of buffing those 2 even more?

I don’t understand. Im suggesting to leave cele and zerker as is. make other ammies more relevant.

mistsim.2748:

runeblade.7514:

Which is easier?

Buffing 18 other amulet or nerfing 1 amulet?

but cele/zerker meta exists for a reason. zerkers need to spike people down, and cele’s need to survive it while doing damage in return, holding points and sustaining teammates. other amulets simply need buffs to open up more specs that can do the same thing.

xDudisx.5914:

Zerker uses direct dmg. Cele uses a bit of everything. How do you plan buffing others without the side effect of buffing those 2 even more?

I don’t understand. Im suggesting to leave cele and zerker as is. make other ammies more relevant.

How do you plan to do that? Just increase the base stats looks a poor design choice. If you just buff weapon skills/traits/utilities that are used by the meta builds will make them even stronger.

Shiyo.3578:

Why isn’t there something as simple as power/precision/VIT?

There is, the Barbarian amulet.