Guild Wars 2

http://i.imgur.com/Jt0uVNm.png

So how exactly can this happen?
So i was on 8 wins, played 2 games (won both) and now i am on 2 wins?
I think something is not quite working correctly

new leaderboard seems to be based off your “points” which you won’t get many of with only 2 matches.

how the system works atm is a mystery

I have 26 wins 0 losses even though I know I lost one game. Also this system seems to reward you for just playing a lot and it’s not all that relevant if you win or lose judging from the people that are on top of the leaderbords right now.

If that’s the case the new leaderbords are terrible and way worse than the old ones. Sigh…

do consider we all have very few matches, old system allowed players with 2 wins 0 losses to score top 10 so it’s ok if the system only really “kicks in” after 100 games or so (pure speculation). Should see how it works after a while.

ps: they also said new leaderboard would start on 16th so probably this is just a test and is likely to be reset later on.

Leaderboards isn’t released yet.

Yes, new leaderboard will be based on points, so to climb up the leaderboard you will have to play A LOT and WIN a lot.

Remember, there will be a reset on 16th Dec for New Test Seasons, so now i think it’s in test phase

Yeah, I just looked up the new leaderboard, i think the new system is giving ranks like, more you play higher rank you get, but need to be somehow skilled though. I mean, if 2 people are samely skilled but one of those two plays more, that one person who plays lot get higher rank. Reversely, the another skilled person, who plays less, has similar rank as some1 who isnt skilled but plays lot. I mean, now leaderboard become grinding system, which is simple that you don’t need to care about leaderboard rank that much since it is just about farming. That is why you see bunch of winrate 50% and also not well-known as really skilled player in the top# 1~25 rank of the new leaderboard. It is just grinding now.

Rank 382, played 42 matches. 45 % win.

Now I now why I face players who are really good.

New player experience

Your leaderboard position (rank) is different from you rating value (how much good u are).

If people are really good but they don’t play a lot, they can have a low leaderboard position (rank) but an high rating.

It’s different from the old leaderboard.

you all don’t get the point. i dropped in wins, which should be completely impossible.

It didn’t even record a majority of my games…

I guess those +20 ranked wins I got was all in my mind!

Blackmoa.3186:

you all don’t get the point. i dropped in wins, which should be completely impossible.

It depends on when new leaderboard started to collect data.

And i think it’s in test phase, Officially new leadearboard will start with new test season on 16th Dec.

In the meantime, i think there will be bug or data matches don’t recorded.

oh now i see what you mean, you had 6 victories removed? looks real weird but still expected at such an early stage.

i’m more worried about how the new system will evaluate your performance… win/loss was a flawed metric but still an objective one. i doubt any system can really tell how good YOU did in a match compared to your teammates.

i might have done an awesome performance fighting 2 people off on my homepoint or their far the whole match not scoring kills while my team farmed the rest of them with superior numbers, will the new system aknowledge my game-changing performance or will just assume i did no kills so i sucked?

It depends on when new leaderboard started to collect data.

no it doesn’t. When teh new leaderboard came online i was on 8 wins, and after the last updaet of teh leaderboard i was on 2 even though i won 2 more games in that time. Other members of the party i was in did not drop wins, in fact i clicked through teh leaderboard and didnt see a single other person have a drop in wins.

Its possible cause LB arent released yet, bruv. They testing I guess.

Could be they had it running internally when the patch hit and they reset it at some point between then and now. So before reset you had more wins.

Or could just be buggy. Who knows.

I’d be interested if it’s actually possible to lose ladder points. I’ve got 2 friends with the same point count but one has like 4x as many losses. If you can’t lose points, ranking just turns into who has played the most games.

They said they won’t be released until the 16th (and will be wiped). My guess is they are just testing stuff and in the end, will be reset on the 16th anyway. Unless they changed their minds, that is what they said. I hope they don’t count because I have been screwing around solo Q’ing trying to gather data for them like they asked lol. Therefore I have a lot of losses.

i have seen someone with points loss, but it’s like 1 every few pages.

Blackmoa.3186:

It depends on when new leaderboard started to collect data.

no it doesn’t. When teh new leaderboard came online i was on 8 wins, and after the last updaet of teh leaderboard i was on 2 even though i won 2 more games in that time. Other members of the party i was in did not drop wins, in fact i clicked through teh leaderboard and didnt see a single other person have a drop in wins.

Yeah so probably there is some issue or bug or i dunno, but i think it’s normal in this phase.

Good thing to evidentiate these issues before season starts.

The new leaderboards is based on how much you play. Even worse than before. Look up the leaderboard now, some1 with 40% win rate is in the top 5 ( rank 2)

GG anet

glock.6590:

The new leaderboards is based on how much you play. Even worse than before. Look up the leaderboard now, some1 with 40% win rate is in the top 5 ( rank 2)

GG anet

I actually like this grinding system. Maybe i would play something differnt becuz i know its all about grinding than personal skill.

It’s not really a pure grinding.

How many points you get, it depends on odds and end score, so skill it’s always important.

But i’m not really sure at the end of the season we’ll have in the top20 , always the same best 4 teams, it really depends on how much they’ll play.

Really curious about it.

I just noticed this while browsing the new ladder…

41-3. How is it possible that he has 27pts? Assuming the information Anet gave us, a win would always give +1 and you can at max lose 3 pts if you lose to a team <199pts you have 80-100% estimated win chance against.

So at worst this would be -9 pts from those 3 losses, how can 41-9 give 27??

XyAltAcc.2096:

I just noticed this while browsing the new ladder…

41-3. How is it possible that he has 27pts? Assuming the information Anet gave us, a win would always give +1 and you can at max lose 3 pts if you lose to a team <199pts you have 80-100% estimated win chance against.

So at worst this would be -9 pts from those 3 losses, how can 41-9 give 27??

we don’t know how leaving a match or rerolling effects the stuff we see on the leaderboard, so maybe he had some dc’s/rerolled a couple of times and then proceeded to win his games and still losing points for them.

MarkPhilips.5169:

It’s not really a pure grinding.

How many points you get, it depends on odds and end score, so skill it’s always important.

But i’m not really sure at the end of the season we’ll have in the top20 , always the same best 4 teams, it really depends on how much they’ll play.

Really curious about it.

eh according to data by comparing previous leaderboard’s top people and current top people, i would say 50% grinding, 25% personal skill, 25% luck.

One interesting thing is you can actually see how many people played ranked pvp since the patch. According to NA section, 8,258 unique accounts have played, granted some are probably alt accounts too.

EU on the other hand has 15,404.

guys, really, the sample is still way too small to draw conclusions

Get out of the 8000’s……….wait wat..

Blackmoa.3186:

XyAltAcc.2096:

I just noticed this while browsing the new ladder…

41-3. How is it possible that he has 27pts? Assuming the information Anet gave us, a win would always give +1 and you can at max lose 3 pts if you lose to a team <199pts you have 80-100% estimated win chance against.

So at worst this would be -9 pts from those 3 losses, how can 41-9 give 27??

we don’t know how leaving a match or rerolling effects the stuff we see on the leaderboard, so maybe he had some dc’s/rerolled a couple of times and then proceeded to win his games and still losing points for them.

I re-rolled a few times not knowing that doing this would wipe all my points for the hour.

Current leaderboard is just about grinding, more you play more rank you get, you cant determine how good you are here. Now, I really want anet would implement 1vs1 dueling arena that actually rewards Gold or something. And It will be only way to estimate player’s actual skills. And this will greatly increase game balance system becuz many people will blame anet for op build things.

Justin ODell.9517:

Blackmoa.3186:

http://i.imgur.com/Jt0uVNm.png

So how exactly can this happen?
So i was on 8 wins, played 2 games (won both) and now i am on 2 wins?
I think something is not quite working correctly

This could have happened because while testing the ladder we’ve reset the data several times. It wasn’t suppose to be visible to you guys until the 16th.

On the 16th, we will reset the data one more time and then the beta season officially begins.

So all wins/losses and rank on the new LB will be reset on the 16th?

so from what i gather, new ladder is simply about grinding points. so…… most games played = rank 1

aw why the rank number was changed into %

i like it better when we can see solid numbers.

Acandis is right if you assume that these players are winning significantly more than they are losing and playing well in losses etc…

I’d imagine playing 100 matches with a 60% win percentage to be (very roughly) comparable to playing 200 matches with a fifty five percent win percentage under the new system.

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

so from what i gather, new ladder is simply about grinding points. so…… most games played = rank 1

More games mean more opportunity for points, but look at the data. There are plenty of players with fewer wins that are higher. There are also players with fewer loses that aren’t as high.

There are people with really high win/loss rations who aren’t even doing as well with 50/50 ratio.

It’s who you play, and how close you come to winning if you lose.

so why am I rank 5X when Im 30-1 and have let 3 teams total score over 100 points?
several of those 500-0s included players from the top of the LB.

It’s hilarious to see players who farm wvwvw heros 24/7 with a full premade under me.

Very interesting data, Justin. Those 2 players scores are the same despite wins and losses being very different because the 2nd player had either more quality losses and/or a lower average odds of winning?

I would bet the player in 1st place at that time had a low MMR and queued solo more often than not.

I would expect/hope that as profession specific MMR starts to stabilize and more matches are played that the new leaderboards will become more accurate over time?

Justin ODell.9517:

Look at the top 2 in NA, both with 58 points as of writing this..

First place:
58 points with 65 wins, 75 loses. That’s ~0.43 points per game.

Second place:
58 points with 63 wins, 51 loses. That’s ~.51 points per game.

That .43 vs .51 is the difference between narrower losses, and winning against tougher opponents. That’s where the skill comes in.

Yes, someone with .5 points per game will be higher than other players with .5 points per game the more they play, but someone with a higher point per game stat will need fewer games to get the same number of points.

Addendum:
Yes number of games also matters. We want the players that play more to be higher on the ladder than similarly skilled players who play less. We also want less skilled players to have a chance as well.

so basically the more you play the higher your rank is completely true

so basically even if you totally suck you just need to play as many games as possible and you will be high ladder

sounds legit

65 wins 75 loses 1st place

i don’t even want to know about others then….rofl

really…you can’t be serious, did you just make pvp farmable? For real? such #esports

Justin ODell.9517:

Look at the top 2 in NA, both with 58 points as of writing this..

First place:
58 points with 65 wins, 75 loses. That’s ~0.43 points per game.

Second place:
58 points with 63 wins, 51 loses. That’s ~.51 points per game.

That .43 vs .51 is the difference between narrower losses, and winning against tougher opponents. That’s where the skill comes in.

Yes, someone with .5 points per game will be higher than other players with .5 points per game the more they play, but someone with a higher point per game stat will need fewer games to get the same number of points.

Addendum:
Yes number of games also matters. We want the players that play more to be higher on the ladder than similarly skilled players who play less. We also want less skilled players to have a chance as well.

Ok, of course this is a Test Seasons so it’s fine, we’ll see at the end how it will be the final ladder, about matches played, win ratio etc.

But i think at the end, if you play more and you are a worst player than another, you will be above in ladder

In general, a system that forces people to play is fine or we have the same situation we had before, play few games, high elo, go afk for months = gg, but i think a good ladder should have a good equilibrium between matches played and skill.

It would be interesting, for example, introducing small weekly ladder boost based on weekly performance (like for example win ratio) or other “skill” parameters, or other stuff to avoid to give the message: “it’s only count how much you play, if you’re decent and you play 100000000000000 games you’ll be the number 1”

This is all really enlightening. Thanks for all the replies Justin and all the hard work!

Justin ODell.9517:

crunchyraisin.6054:

I would bet the player in 1st place at that time had a low MMR and queued solo more often than not.

Since there win/loss ratio is under .5, I’d assume their MMR is pretty accurate. I’d think the people with closer to .9 win/loss ratios are ones who might be benefiting from an artificially low MMR and/or are grouping up and facerolling.

Of course, that’s just guessing. I still have to look at the actual data.

That makes sense.

I’m just looking for a realistic explanation for a poor winning percentage being scored very highly. Losing a lot of 450 to 500 matches seems very farfetched. Repeatedly getting matched up against a top pre-made team might explain it.

Justin ODell.9517:

Archaon.9524:

65 wins 75 loses 1st place
i don’t even want to know about others then….rofl

Rank 1: 67 wins, 72 losses, total games = 139
Rank 6: 50 wins, 20 losses, total games = 70
Rank 8: 38 wins, 8 losses, total games = 46

Data is holding to the hypothesis that “more skill equals less grind.”

Also, win/loss ratio shouldn’t mean anything to you. With an ideal perfect matchmaking everyone’d would be at 50%.

Well no…that might be true for someone sitting around 500 or if you just soloq…if you have a good team and you aim at high ladder 50% ratio is actually pretty bad (That makes you an average team but for sure not a top 100 one)

anyway if

Rank 1: 67 wins, 72 losses, total games = 139

higher than

Rank 8: 38 wins, 8 losses, total games = 46

sounds good and fair to you guys…i really dunno what to say anymore

I don’t understand the point of hard resetting all the previously earned MMR.

Why not just do a soft reset normalized towards default MMR? I suspect most of the matches for the next 3 weeks are going to be complete blowouts because of this.