Guild Wars 2

Team started to use 2 or even 3 DD eles on turnaments , in thid build ele can use knight or even zerk amulet and still have a big survi. I am playing as a necro and in full condi build there is no way to kill it for me.Yestarday i was playing turnaments and one team had 2 DD eles in the same build. At the beginning 2 eles came to our spot and we need 4 ppl to kill them. Its very hard to kill that kind of ele becouse he have almoust perma endurance and he can dodge dodge dodge forever. I think smt is broken becouse this ele cant die from dps , he cant die from conditions.He can die only from full burst like full backstab thief. We know that eles have great mobility and when 2 eles will come to one spot its very hard , u are focusing one of them and he is eveiding half or even more of your attacks , when he is lov hp he is running from the point and u need to focus other one becouse u cant leave the point.When the other one is close to death the 1st one i comming back and the other is running so the game starts again. So if u dont have full burst dps in place where the 2 eles are its amloust sure u wont kill tem , of course i am talking about good playing eles.

What do u think about that guys??

Hey,

during the weekend i have seen some discussion between Team Paradigm NA and Xeph from EU. It was quite interesting discussion to be honest where they discussed exactly how EU meta is starting to be more and more cheap and cheesy. In fact 2 DD eles is still only part. What Xeph described in that discussion was build that was with 2DD eles, 2 portal mesmers, 1 guard bunker.
Basically you have lot of DPS and survivability. All your DPS is AOE. You have instant taxi between points true mesmers portals. You have 2x illusion of life so if you die.. you technically can´t die.
This team is also extremly survival due to stomps. There is no way you stomp at first try. Only if you manage to kill guardian first.

Well, i think thats going to be. And since i dont play paids lately.. and free are still Necro dominated. I understeand and im pretty much against those DD builds. In fact a good DD or S/D tank can hold your team and its pretty hard to outrun or kill.

if this is new meta.. then i think we are in more trouble .. And thats my personal opinion.. but i dont find it fun at all..

indeed, even in paids 90% of the Teams using a S/D bunker Ele for your close point.

I hope Anet will do something against this whole bunker ….. in feburary. Otherwise Guardians will be replaced by Ele and becomes useless

First of all, I understand that both D/D-Ele’s with tons of Teamsupport and the S/D-Bunker are pretty annoying builds, very strong and can be hard to deal with, that being said, here are some strategies you can use against them:

How to play a Team with an S/D-Bunker

1) A lot of teams send 1-2 Chars in the direction of the S/D-Bunker at the start of the game to cripple, stun, chill and immobilize him. Most of the time, your Node-def will be able to get the Point capped before the Ele is there, or the Ele has to use up pretty much all of his CD’s.

2) Another way of approaching the scenario is by putting down a portal near your mainpoint and just keep one Char there to keep it neutral or even completely ignore it. The rest of the Team (with the Mesmer), collapses on mid. With 4-5 ppl mid, you’ll be able to get it quite fast. After you get mid, the Mesmer uses Portal and 2+ ppl go back (leave at least the Guard mid), they wipe the Bunker-Ele and now you have 2 Points against a Team with a much lower DMG-output than most Teams that don’t run 2 defensive Chars and you’ve basically won the game.

3) On Kyhlo, the Bunker Ele is really no Problem, cuz you got Treb. Yeah, he has tons of dodges and heal, but a good stun/Immobilize and a Trebshot will kill the Ele easily. They then again have a second Bunker that doesn’t deal much DMG, can’t get ppl off of points (except if he runs Tornado, which is a skill that allows the Ele to die against everything) and can’t destroy the Treb too well.

4) You can also just completely ignore your Point and go for 2+ ppl on their point and the rest mid. They now just have a crappy Bunker-Ele on one node and actually defending points as the S/D-Bunker Ele, is very very hard, because decapping points happens much faster than hindering your opponent from capping it, so just 1 Engi, Guardian, Necro etc. can push the Ele off the Point and make the point neutral.

How to play against D/D-Eles

1) The best way to mitigate huge amounts of DPS from the Eles is to used some sort of Movement-impairing skills like Cantrips, Ice-Fields, cripple and get ranged Classes to fight them. They’ll do much less DPS, but eat up a lot of DPS from your team.

2) If they run Aura-Share, they heavily invested into Teamfight-Skills, so if your Team is good enough, fight for 3 Points constantly and draw them out of Teamfights.

*Edit: Cheap, cheesey and gimmicky builds were also a HUGE part of GW1, I’d go as far as to say they were even more dangerous and required less skill, or a skill-set that is different from when you play a more balanced-build. It was up to the players that played balanced-builds to figure out how to deal with those builds, to analyze the Metagame and come up with counters etc. In return, they were regarded as better players that didn’t use gimmicky builds to win.

Thats all sounds good in theory. Im definitelly going to give it a try.. but i still see the problem in “time”. The time you need for move from one point to another, and the time you need to kill him.

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?Also treb on Khylo. I dont think they will let me shoot. At least one of them.. will go for treb and make sure you can´t use it. He will probably not kill you but still can´t shoot.
Or does ele even care about treb? good players know how to evade.. time it.

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?Also treb on Khylo. I dont think they will let me shoot. At least one of them.. will go for treb and make sure you can´t use it. He will probably not kill you but still can´t shoot.
Or does ele even care about treb? good players know how to evade.. time it.As i said.. its all nice in theory.. but rather hard in game.

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?Also treb on Khylo. I dont think they will let me shoot. At least one of them.. will go for treb and make sure you can´t use it. He will probably not kill you but still can´t shoot.
Or does ele even care about treb? good players know how to evade.. time it.As i said.. its all nice in theory.. but rather hard in game.Well you right at one point.. Cheap and Cheesey.. was huge part of GW1 and it will always be a hudge part of any competitive game.. so we just have to adjust.. and learn to play against it..
The problem is.. im not sure if Forsaker can play Necro anymore with this meta.. maybe you will need new class.

Aragiel.6132:

Thats all sounds good in theory. Im definitelly going to give it a try.. but i still see the problem in “time”. The time you need for move from one point to another, and the time you need to kill him.

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?Also treb on Khylo. I dont think they will let me shoot. At least one of them.. will go for treb and make sure you can´t use it. He will probably not kill you but still can´t shoot.
Or does ele even care about treb? good players know how to evade.. time it.

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?Also treb on Khylo. I dont think they will let me shoot. At least one of them.. will go for treb and make sure you can´t use it. He will probably not kill you but still can´t shoot.
Or does ele even care about treb? good players know how to evade.. time it.As i said.. its all nice in theory.. but rather hard in game.

And.. how to play against it if they are heavily supported by their own dual portal mesmers?Also treb on Khylo. I dont think they will let me shoot. At least one of them.. will go for treb and make sure you can´t use it. He will probably not kill you but still can´t shoot.
Or does ele even care about treb? good players know how to evade.. time it.As i said.. its all nice in theory.. but rather hard in game.Well you right at one point.. Cheap and Cheesey.. was huge part of GW1 and it will always be a hudge part of any competitive game.. so we just have to adjust.. and learn to play against it..
The problem is.. im not sure if Forsaker can play Necro anymore with this meta.. maybe you will need new class.

Pushing offensively to the opposing Point costs more time in walking to the Point, reinforcing the point with players on other Points on the Map or Players respawning, so against those builds, you’ll always have a certain “defenders advantage” if you concentrate on your homepoint and mid.

The time to kill the Ele with 2+ ppl shouldn’t be too high, I’ve even seen skilled Mesmers or Thiefs solo the Ele, so with 2+ Bursty Chars (preferably Thief, Mesmer and maybe an offensive Ele), the Bunker-Ele should only survive until his CD’s are gone and mesmer even negates two of them (Armor of Earth and the other Armor of Earth you get from the Trait).

Treb is huge against the Ele, just keep the mesmer there and Immobilize/Stun the Ele when the Treb-shot is about to hit.

2 Mesmers with Portal is another thing, maybe I’ll write sth. about how to counter Portals later, cuz there are tons of strategies and builds against it. It’s nothing like a hard-counter that makes the Portal useless, but it helps controlling it a bit.

but what if they have 2 or even 3 eles??

Forsaker.9213:

but what if they have 2 or even 3 eles??

Never faced this (kind of on a break) but i’d prolly bring 2 thieves roaming togheter for maximum instagib

We actually faced a team with 3x Ele yesterday in paid and they kicked our kitten pretty hard. They were nearly unkillable, when two of them are on the same point you literally need at least 3-4 people to kick their kitten There is just so much AOE-Heal,…

I’m seeing double ele alot in paids , i dont do them very often. but i seem em.

Imo and you might all disagree with it they should nerf the clerics amulet!
Ele bunker sees crazy benefit from healing and no matter how you changed things you cant remove water attunement and overnerfing it screwes over us who dont play those cheesy builds (that even a starter on ele can use to hold crazy amounts of time against 2 balanced builds).
Other than that it was about time people overuse eles.Imo its a class that has the most viable builds right now even with fire traits and earth being crappy.Also every ele excels in mobility which after the weapons lock has become tones more important so bringing an ele is always good even if the task you assign him could be done b y another class which is way less mobile though..We ll see how they balance things but seeing engie state im a bit afraid of how they change things…

PowerBottom.5796:

First of all, I understand that both D/D-Ele’s with tons of Teamsupport and the S/D-Bunker are pretty annoying builds, very strong and can be hard to deal with, that being said, here are some strategies you can use against them:

How to play a Team with an S/D-Bunker

1) A lot of teams send 1-2 Chars in the direction of the S/D-Bunker at the start of the game to cripple, stun, chill and immobilize him. Most of the time, your Node-def will be able to get the Point capped before the Ele is there, or the Ele has to use up pretty much all of his CD’s.

2) Another way of approaching the scenario is by putting down a portal near your mainpoint and just keep one Char there to keep it neutral or even completely ignore it. The rest of the Team (with the Mesmer), collapses on mid. With 4-5 ppl mid, you’ll be able to get it quite fast. After you get mid, the Mesmer uses Portal and 2+ ppl go back (leave at least the Guard mid), they wipe the Bunker-Ele and now you have 2 Points against a Team with a much lower DMG-output than most Teams that don’t run 2 defensive Chars and you’ve basically won the game.

Sorry but thats totally bullkitten. Seems like you never have really fought against really skilled bunker elementalist. These guys have 14k HP and are not killable by two guys – No matter what you do.

regards 1) In theory thats sounds good but I can tell you for sure we tested it several times. It is not working – No matter what you do a good bunker ele will find a way to deal with it:
- Necro marks -> He will dodge them
- Ranger traps -> Since the only class which can defend a point against a bunker ele is a bunker ranger. You dont use them and if you do its just 1 second of immobilize.

I could go on with every other profession. Since the Elementalist has both stability and mistform he will find a way to get to your homepoint before you are able to fully cap it.

2) The Elementalist on your close is not used to cap the point but to neutralise it. Portal users are often to slow and the node is already decapped. If the Mesmer was fast enough and your point is still capped, the Elementalist will use Tornado to get you off the point.

Forsaker is totally right the meta is broken for now. There is just one group setup which seems to exists and all top teams (except Paradigm which used 2 ranger + 2 elemantalist + Teldoo last time I saw them) are it.

I played one time against Chieftain Ninjas on foefire: We knew Radom would come for our close so we decided to go far and mid. We were capable to kill their Mesmer really fast but anyway it wasnt fast enough. Radom was able to capture our close point and rushing to our point before we were able to fully cap it. And you cant kill this guy with just 2 people since the incredible amount of condition removal and burst avoidance. So we were never capable to cap the point because either mesmer (portal), guard or elementalist were there (I have to say there movement is also really smart).

I dont want that the elementalist will be nerfed to the ground. I can deal with D/D eles but these bunkers are just too strong in my opinion since they also have a lot of group support due to aoe heal and 3 blast combo finishers, 2 blinds and knockdowns. A class with such a high mobility should not be able to bunker like a guard.

However I dont know how to fix the problem since the traits are close to the damage and aura share builds. If they nerf cleric amulett this would also affect other classes so I think this will not happen.

In my opinion a bunker Elementalist is a must in paid tournaments :/ and sadly this will last for a long time.

HPLT.7132:

PowerBottom.5796:

First of all, I understand that both D/D-Ele’s with tons of Teamsupport and the S/D-Bunker are pretty annoying builds, very strong and can be hard to deal with, that being said, here are some strategies you can use against them:

How to play a Team with an S/D-Bunker

1) A lot of teams send 1-2 Chars in the direction of the S/D-Bunker at the start of the game to cripple, stun, chill and immobilize him. Most of the time, your Node-def will be able to get the Point capped before the Ele is there, or the Ele has to use up pretty much all of his CD’s.

2) Another way of approaching the scenario is by putting down a portal near your mainpoint and just keep one Char there to keep it neutral or even completely ignore it. The rest of the Team (with the Mesmer), collapses on mid. With 4-5 ppl mid, you’ll be able to get it quite fast. After you get mid, the Mesmer uses Portal and 2+ ppl go back (leave at least the Guard mid), they wipe the Bunker-Ele and now you have 2 Points against a Team with a much lower DMG-output than most Teams that don’t run 2 defensive Chars and you’ve basically won the game.

Sorry but thats totally bullkitten. Seems like you never have really fought against really skilled bunker elementalist. These guys have 14k HP and are not killable by two guys – No matter what you do.

regards 1) In theory thats sounds good but I can tell you for sure we tested it several times. It is not working – No matter what you do a good bunker ele will find a way to deal with it:
- Necro marks -> He will dodge them
- Ranger traps -> Since the only class which can defend a point against a bunker ele is a bunker ranger. You dont use them and if you do its just 1 second of immobilize.

I could go on with every other profession. Since the Elementalist has both stability and mistform he will find a way to get to your homepoint before you are able to fully cap it.

2) The Elementalist on your close is not used to cap the point but to neutralise it. Portal users are often to slow and the node is already decapped. If the Mesmer was fast enough and your point is still capped, the Elementalist will use Tornado to get you off the point.

Forsaker is totally right the meta is broken for now. There is just one group setup which seems to exists and all top teams (except Paradigm which used 2 ranger + 2 elemantalist + Teldoo last time I saw them) are it.

I played one time against Chieftain Ninjas on foefire: We knew Radom would come for our close so we decided to go far and mid. We were capable to kill their Mesmer really fast but anyway it wasnt fast enough. Radom was able to capture our close point and rushing to our point before we were able to fully cap it. And you cant kill this guy with just 2 people since the incredible amount of condition removal and burst avoidance. So we were never capable to cap the point because either mesmer (portal), guard or elementalist were there (I have to say there movement is also really smart).

I dont want that the elementalist will be nerfed to the ground. I can deal with D/D eles but these bunkers are just too strong in my opinion since they also have a lot of group support due to aoe heal and 3 blast combo finishers, 2 blinds and knockdowns. A class with such a high mobility should not be able to bunker like a guard.

However I dont know how to fix the problem since the traits are close to the damage and aura share builds. If they nerf cleric amulett this would also affect other classes so I think this will not happen.

In my opinion a bunker Elementalist is a must in paid tournaments :/ and sadly this will last for a long time.

Mesmer+thief counters S/D bunkers pretty hard.

Well, mesmer + thief counters basically every bunker, but eles are countered more than guards.

This doesn’t mean that S/D eles are not ridicolous, simply that bunkering is overall too stronk.

Just like burst.

Hopefully they’ll tone them down in the next patch: the only thing i fear is we may shift to DD eles meta, and we’re already quite there, even without nerfing bunkering and burst.

kostbabis.8791:

Imo and you might all disagree with it they should nerf the clerics amulet!
Ele bunker sees crazy benefit from healing and no matter how you changed things you cant remove water attunement and overnerfing it screwes over us who dont play those cheesy builds (that even a starter on ele can use to hold crazy amounts of time against 2 balanced builds).
Other than that it was about time people overuse eles.Imo its a class that has the most viable builds right now even with fire traits and earth being crappy.Also every ele excels in mobility which after the weapons lock has become tones more important so bringing an ele is always good even if the task you assign him could be done b y another class which is way less mobile though..We ll see how they balance things but seeing engie state im a bit afraid of how they change things…

I want a 5K HP increase if we need to lower the return of healing spells, given the fact that not every ele run with a cleric amulet, to simply nerf the hell of what keeping this profession from being thrashed would be a reason for even more players to simply leave the game.
If you design a game where there is almost 50% HP difference between professions,you can’t expect a profession on the lower end of the spectrum to remain competitive without something extra

PowerBottom.5796:

First of all, I understand that both D/D-Ele’s with tons of Teamsupport and the S/D-Bunker are pretty annoying builds, very strong and can be hard to deal with, that being said, here are some strategies you can use against them:

How to play a Team with an S/D-Bunker

1) A lot of teams send 1-2 Chars in the direction of the S/D-Bunker at the start of the game to cripple, stun, chill and immobilize him. Most of the time, your Node-def will be able to get the Point capped before the Ele is there, or the Ele has to use up pretty much all of his CD’s.

2) Another way of approaching the scenario is by putting down a portal near your mainpoint and just keep one Char there to keep it neutral or even completely ignore it. The rest of the Team (with the Mesmer), collapses on mid. With 4-5 ppl mid, you’ll be able to get it quite fast. After you get mid, the Mesmer uses Portal and 2+ ppl go back (leave at least the Guard mid), they wipe the Bunker-Ele and now you have 2 Points against a Team with a much lower DMG-output than most Teams that don’t run 2 defensive Chars and you’ve basically won the game.

3) On Kyhlo, the Bunker Ele is really no Problem, cuz you got Treb. Yeah, he has tons of dodges and heal, but a good stun/Immobilize and a Trebshot will kill the Ele easily. They then again have a second Bunker that doesn’t deal much DMG, can’t get ppl off of points (except if he runs Tornado, which is a skill that allows the Ele to die against everything) and can’t destroy the Treb too well.

4) You can also just completely ignore your Point and go for 2+ ppl on their point and the rest mid. They now just have a crappy Bunker-Ele on one node and actually defending points as the S/D-Bunker Ele, is very very hard, because decapping points happens much faster than hindering your opponent from capping it, so just 1 Engi, Guardian, Necro etc. can push the Ele off the Point and make the point neutral.

How to play against D/D-Eles

1) The best way to mitigate huge amounts of DPS from the Eles is to used some sort of Movement-impairing skills like Cantrips, Ice-Fields, cripple and get ranged Classes to fight them. They’ll do much less DPS, but eat up a lot of DPS from your team.

2) If they run Aura-Share, they heavily invested into Teamfight-Skills, so if your Team is good enough, fight for 3 Points constantly and draw them out of Teamfights.

*Edit: Cheap, cheesey and gimmicky builds were also a HUGE part of GW1, I’d go as far as to say they were even more dangerous and required less skill, or a skill-set that is different from when you play a more balanced-build. It was up to the players that played balanced-builds to figure out how to deal with those builds, to analyze the Metagame and come up with counters etc. In return, they were regarded as better players that didn’t use gimmicky builds to win.

Good ideas. Also, pretty much supports my argument that people are bringing Mesmers to counter the bunkers, like they were used to counter monks in GW1.

didnt think it was possible but it’s happening: meta is getting worse due to OP low skillcap builds dominating everything else.

nerva.7940:

didnt think it was possible but it’s happening: meta is getting worse due to OP low skillcap builds dominating everything else.

Seems like current Meta is:
Cheddar
Muenster
Gouda
Swiss
Havarti

Take you pick.

how is there a real meta with like 10 regular tournament teams?

Sprawl.3891:

how is there a real meta with like 10 regular tournament teams?

I agree. Help me fill in the gaps

Apple Banana Cherry Dragonfruit [ABCD]
Hunting High and Low [HHaL]
Delirium [DLRM]
Ex Talionis [LAW]
Champion Slayer [tPVP]
[PRO]

Not to mention that some members of these guilds are in other guilds on the list as well. Its always fun to see a team rocking different guild tags in some strange attempt at looking like a pug (but we all know better)

Played some frees yesterday. When we faced 40+ premades they had the bunker ele. But only one in setup so it was trully annoying but our mesmer + thief were able to handle it fast enough.
In order to kill that ele you trully need to know when he has mistform on CD.. and then time your burst. If you burst only yourself.. its not enough.

Speaking about two eles, well we use two eles as well but offensive speced. Their mobility is just very important in current state. And they are killing Necros pretty fast so its two in one.

Anyway.. i believe the problem is that ele has access to everything.. and thats just bad. But not sure how to balance it out without making ele total obsolete.

Anyway.. i believe the problem is that ele has access to everything.. and thats just bad. But not sure how to balance it out without making ele total obsolete.I think i would start with OP downed state. and then … then i dont know

Hammerheart.1426:

Sprawl.3891:

how is there a real meta with like 10 regular tournament teams?

I agree. Help me fill in the gaps

Apple Banana Cherry Dragonfruit [ABCD]
Hunting High and Low [HHaL]
Delirium [DLRM]
Ex Talionis [LAW]
Champion Slayer [tPVP]
[PRO]

Not to mention that some members of these guilds are in other guilds on the list as well. Its always fun to see a team rocking different guild tags in some strange attempt at looking like a pug (but we all know better)

umm….Pz. JBUO Cute….
U know the teams with the highest QP rated players.

nerva.7940:

didnt think it was possible but it’s happening: meta is getting worse due to OP low skillcap builds dominating everything else.

Dude, just go with it. ^^’

Did you ever play GW1? It was ridiculous in terms of cheesey and gimmicky builds!

There were Teams of 8 Necros, most of ‘em with the second class being sth. that can heal like Monk and they spiked a target down in the blink of an Eye and the 10 Seconds between the spikes, they were Fullhealing each other, CC’ing your Team etc. It was like playing against 5 Bunker-Ele’s, were every 10 or so seconds, someone of your Team magically died. It was also much harder to split against those Teamfight-oriented Builds, especially in Heroes Ascent and there was no downed-state either.

Then, there were other Spikes, like the Ranger-spike, insane Pressure-builds like “IWAY!” and tons of other BS.

But it was kinda fun! There was always this tension between the gimmicky players and the “good” players, who played balanced-builds. The one group was regarded low-skilled and cheesey and the other were regarded better players, but they just had to come up with sth. to deal with all those gimmicky builds and in GW1, it was much harder to prepare your team for all the possibilities of ridiculous builds out there:

1) You had “only” 8 Skills
2) Conditions, or the equivalent in GW1 to those of GW2, were split up into two “debuff-categories”, Hexes and Conditions, and most Removal-Skills only took care of one of them. So to be prepared against both heavy Condition and heavy Hex-builds, you really had to cramp in A LOT of stuff and therefore you had an overall weaker build, just to be safe against certain cheesey builds.
3) With Observer-Mode in Place, crazy builds spread very very fast, so the Players playing balanced, had to know the Meta very well, analyze the new builds that pop up and work sth. out to counter them, or to at least don’t get an auto-loss, while still being fairly safe against all the other builds.
-> Playing balanced was “Metagaming” pure; A game of calculated risks and educated guesses. While the other side of the Spectrum tried to come up with always new Combinations of Skill and Chars to surprise and dominate the other Teams.

We have that in other games as well, take Starcraft or Starcraft 2 for example:
- There are Players that try to cheese and surprise the opponent by coming up with crazy timings, rushes and so on. Often, builds like that are risky, because if they are scouted, or if the opponent isn’t cutting any corners, they can backfire. Other Players try to come up with the most stable build-orders – stuff that doesn’t loose automatically against any cheese, but has a good economy when you face an opponent that is going for the lategame.

That kind of tension makes a game interesting for Players that like to think and come up with stuff and it is fun for spectators and creates kind of a storyline: One Team is the crafty one, that comes up with new and surprising builds, will the other Team be prepared or will they fall for the cheese? Does the one Team know what the other Team was working on, have they maybe seen certain Builds of them on the Ladder/Stream etc.

Just look at it from another Perspective: Be Glad ppl come up with new stuff that seems to be unbeatable and either take the challenge, or hop on the bandwagon! Of course we can whine about balance, but sticking your heads together and coming up with counters is just much more fun!

1) A lot of teams send 1-2 Chars in the direction of the S/D-Bunker at the start of the game to cripple, stun, chill and immobilize him. Most of the time, your Node-def will be able to get the Point capped before the Ele is there, or the Ele has to use up pretty much all of his CD’s.

That’s what we are doing with our necro. So our mesmer is able to cap the point in time.

So I don’t see the point of debuffing the ele. And if he still arrive before capturing, you just send the thief. You force the ele to activate mistform or leave to spot.

And the fact that you can play the same strat…

yep thats how to deal with it but you can do this tactic only on khylo and niflhel..because on foefire the running ways are the same

but def ele only the half of the problem with this meta, the other half are these two skills: timewarp and portal

because of this two skills they will always have 5 guys at the first mid fight and a timebubble wich is an HUGE advantage if they pop it at the right time…

that forces you to use also an mesmer on your home point or you’ll have a big disadvantage….

love you guys.. how smart you are..
so tell me .. what to do with that ele afterwards? he will eventually get you off point or slowly kill you?

Any tank that has at least one knocback can sooner or later knock you off and neutralize.. and then he is winning his game..

yeah thats also true…tornado ftw^^

and I didn’t say it’s over after you cap the point, I just meant with my previous post that this is the way to cap your home-point in the first minute of the game..

and I also think def ele is too strong right now..

Your right. It’s strong. The fact that an ele with elemental glyph can kill a mesmer is insane.
On Foefire it’s really hard to counter the ele. Some months ago we made the tactic to send our thief + nec invisible to our close point to spike the ele immediately (Fear, stun, burst, down). Nowadays it’s just alot stronger to send the thief to their farpoint, as really good eles can avoid the spike.

Your argument about the mesmer in the middle is a big point, as he can pretty much decide the progress of a teamfight in the middle. Still it’s hard to time it good. And the fact that in this teamfights u face a guard or even worse a necro, makes it not that OP. (Plague: blind spamming, Guard: Knockback, Support Boons).
And actually i never saw 5 ppl on one spot in paid tournaments. That’s just too weak.

The Portal on the otherside is mostly used to def the close point, being able to participate in teamfights and be right back on your spot again.

The CD of both skillz is huge. For me that’s a good balance. So you really think twice when you want to activate these two skillz

daydream.2938:

Hammerheart.1426:

Sprawl.3891:

how is there a real meta with like 10 regular tournament teams?

I agree. Help me fill in the gaps

Apple Banana Cherry Dragonfruit [ABCD]
Hunting High and Low [HHaL]
Delirium [DLRM]
Ex Talionis [LAW]
Champion Slayer [tPVP]
[PRO]

Not to mention that some members of these guilds are in other guilds on the list as well. Its always fun to see a team rocking different guild tags in some strange attempt at looking like a pug (but we all know better)

umm….Pz. JBUO Cute….
U know the teams with the highest QP rated players.

I’ve never even heard of these teams except tPvP. And I thought they were some hotjoin guild.

PowerBottom.5796:

nerva.7940:

didnt think it was possible but it’s happening: meta is getting worse due to OP low skillcap builds dominating everything else.

Dude, just go with it. ^^’

Did you ever play GW1? It was ridiculous in terms of cheesey and gimmicky builds!

There were Teams of 8 Necros, most of ‘em with the second class being sth. that can heal like Monk and they spiked a target down in the blink of an Eye and the 10 Seconds between the spikes, they were Fullhealing each other, CC’ing your Team etc. It was like playing against 5 Bunker-Ele’s, were every 10 or so seconds, someone of your Team magically died. It was also much harder to split against those Teamfight-oriented Builds, especially in Heroes Ascent and there was no downed-state either.

Then, there were other Spikes, like the Ranger-spike, insane Pressure-builds like “IWAY!” and tons of other BS.

But it was kinda fun! There was always this tension between the gimmicky players and the “good” players, who played balanced-builds. The one group was regarded low-skilled and cheesey and the other were regarded better players, but they just had to come up with sth. to deal with all those gimmicky builds and in GW1, it was much harder to prepare your team for all the possibilities of ridiculous builds out there:

1) You had “only” 8 Skills
2) Conditions, or the equivalent in GW1 to those of GW2, were split up into two “debuff-categories”, Hexes and Conditions, and most Removal-Skills only took care of one of them. So to be prepared against both heavy Condition and heavy Hex-builds, you really had to cramp in A LOT of stuff and therefore you had an overall weaker build, just to be safe against certain cheesey builds.
3) With Observer-Mode in Place, crazy builds spread very very fast, so the Players playing balanced, had to know the Meta very well, analyze the new builds that pop up and work sth. out to counter them, or to at least don’t get an auto-loss, while still being fairly safe against all the other builds.
-> Playing balanced was “Metagaming” pure; A game of calculated risks and educated guesses. While the other side of the Spectrum tried to come up with always new Combinations of Skill and Chars to surprise and dominate the other Teams.

We have that in other games as well, take Starcraft or Starcraft 2 for example:
- There are Players that try to cheese and surprise the opponent by coming up with crazy timings, rushes and so on. Often, builds like that are risky, because if they are scouted, or if the opponent isn’t cutting any corners, they can backfire. Other Players try to come up with the most stable build-orders – stuff that doesn’t loose automatically against any cheese, but has a good economy when you face an opponent that is going for the lategame.

That kind of tension makes a game interesting for Players that like to think and come up with stuff and it is fun for spectators and creates kind of a storyline: One Team is the crafty one, that comes up with new and surprising builds, will the other Team be prepared or will they fall for the cheese? Does the one Team know what the other Team was working on, have they maybe seen certain Builds of them on the Ladder/Stream etc.

Just look at it from another Perspective: Be Glad ppl come up with new stuff that seems to be unbeatable and either take the challenge, or hop on the bandwagon! Of course we can whine about balance, but sticking your heads together and coming up with counters is just much more fun!

So much this! XD
I remember back in GW1 when as mesmer I was able to steamroll that invoke spike GvG guild Celestial rats [CR] or support monks midline with spirit weapons on my rit when playing againt BBway from Math Teacher Reload[MATH].

People always tend to play the most cheesy build combination, here is a list of the most cheesy team builds in GW1:

1) Dervish way = 5 dervish ( mele class with spells) using different avatar ( elite) and zerging against single targets…
2) Iway= 5 warriors? can’t remember with ranger secondary, they used low lvl pets as adrenaline chargers by letting them die over and over
3) Invoke spike = 6 air eles spike with invoke spike , 3-2-1 spike with 100% death rate unless the prot monk was a god
4) Daze way = 2 dervs, 2 mesmers with dazing elite ( in GW1 daze result in interrupt everytime you cast something)2 blind bot eles ( perma blind 100% miss rate on meles)

And many more…..the GW2 community seems to be new to the whole concept of cheesy team builds, it’s not by nerfing/buffing professions that you solve the problem..there will be always cheesy team compositions, it’s the nature of MMOs

what is a bunker ? a bunker can hold a point forever vs 1 class but dies to 2 dps and does little or no damage. a bunker should never die in 1v1 thats how they are designed…

mesma and thief can kill ele fast …
if 2 dps are not able to kill a bunker then they suck

if u wanna nerf bunkerele u have to fix all bunkerclasses and if u do this u have to lower the burst classes especially thief and mesma and if u nerf too much then there will be no bunkers anymore .

The perma-chill needs to go and the sustain needs to get cut. This is what happens when people cry for buffs and never learn to play. You get an Ele.

1. Don’t even bring GW1 into this.

2. ANet has officially stated Ele is supposed to be the most powerful class, now and ever, get over it.

Nier.2478:

The perma-chill needs to go and the sustain needs to get cut. This is what happens when people cry for buffs and never learn to play. You get an Ele.

First there is no perma chill skill or build, there are only bd players who keep attacking an ele with frost aura up:
-Frost aura= 2s chill on hit, 40s CD , 7s duration
-Frozen burst= 3s chill PBaoe, 15s Cd
-Freezing gust= 3 chills, single target, 25s CD
-Frozen ground = 40s CD, 2s chill, 5s field duration

On top of my head here is a list of nerfed skills prior to the release of the game:

1)Scepter
-Hurl= from base dmg 332 to 166 base dmg
-Phoenix = 1k healing+remove all conditions/vigor at 15s CD to remove all conditions/vigor at 20s CD
-Arc Lightning = base dmg reduction , assumed to be 30%
– Ice shards= base dmg reduction , no numbers available but the dmg was good in BWE1, ( used to cause daze/stun with a trait)
-Flamestrike= from no animation delay to 1s cast animation ( BWE1)

2) Staff
-Fireball = from 800+ base dmg to 300+ base dmg
-Chain lightning = base dmg reduction, no number available (BWE1)
-Lightning surge= from 3s CD, blind, 12s confusion to 10s CD, 2s cast, confusion removed
-Gust= from 20s CD to 30s CD
-Windborne speed= from 20s CD to 30s CD
-Unsteady ground = from 20s CD to 30s CD
-Shockwave= from 20s CD to 30s CD
-Frozen ground= from 30s CD to 40s CD
-Healing rain= from 9s regeneration to 6s regeneration
-Static field = from 3s stun larger radius to 2s stun smaller radius
-Magnetic aura= from 20s CD to 30s CD
-Meteor storm= base dmg from 800 to 700 base dmg

3)Dagger MH
– Updraft= from 20s CD to 40s CD
– Shocking aura= from 20s CD to 25s CD
-Fire grab = crit dmg from 150% to 44%, base dmg reduced by over 50%, from 30s CD to 45s CD
– Earthquake= I remember it being 30s CD, now 45s CD
– Ring of earth= used to give 6s protection and deal dmg

4)Focus
-Gale= from 3s KD at 40s CD to 50s CD and 2s KD
-Flamewall= from 12+ s duration to 8s duration, radius reduced

5)Utilities
-Arcane wave = from 20s CD and 1500 base dmg to 30s CD and 1400 base dmg
-Arcane blast= from 15s CD and 900 base dmg to 20s CD and 800 base dmg
– Cleansing fire= from 30s CD, remove all conditions to remove 3 conditions and 50s CD
-Armor of earth= protection/stability from 9s duration to 6s duration
-Signet of water =from remove a condition every 3s to remove a condition every 10s

6)Traits
-One with the mist= Grant mist form when your health reach 33% [removed]
-Winds of Change= grant switness to allies when switching to air [removed]
-Ember might = grant might to allies when switching to fire [removed]
-Arcane lightning = 3% crit dmg for each arcane skill equipped, now is 3% crit dmg for 10s when using an arcane skill
-Grounded = from 50% dmg on KD/stunned foes, master trait to 20% dmg and grandmaster trait
-Stop drop and roll = from adept trait, remove a condition at every dodge to master trait, remove burning/chill every 10s on dodge
-Lingering elements= from adept minor trait to master minor trait
-Healing ripple = 50% direct healing reduction, other 50% depends on healing power stat

This is what I can remember but of course there is more on top of nerfed stuff like bugged traits/skills, regarding “buffs” here is a short list of them….

1)Dagger/Dagger
-Drake’s breath = added 1k base dmg
-Ring of fire= base dmg from 230 to 630
-Lightning whip= base dmg from 330 to 380
-Frost aura= from 1s chill to 2s chill
-Churning earth= from 5 bleeding stacks to 8 stacks
-Lightning touch = removed vulnerability, added weakness and 4s CD increase

Scepter
-no changes

Staff
-no changes

Focus
-no changes

2) Utilities
-signet of earth = CD reduced from 60s CD to 30s CD
-Glyph of elemental power= from 105s Cd to 45s CD
-Conjures= add few stats
-Lightning flash= CD reduced from 60s CD to 45s CD

3) Trait
-Arcane abatement = reduce fall dmg trait for eles….
-Soothing wave= grant 6s regeneration on use of mist form,signet of water and ice bow, apply chill/vulnerability while in mist form/vapor form ( 2s duration)
-Pyromancer’s puissance= single stack of might from 5s duration to 10s duration

So please find me these significant buffs which had made ele an OP class…and where are the small nerfs?..I only see huge nerfs all around t, the way I see it, the profession has been made hard enough to play thx to complaints, nerfed all around and small buffs to dagger MH…how did we become OP?
Maybe if people start to play ele, learn animations andhow traits works..they would stop calling ele OP, there is no class with more obious animation than eles, more easier than this doesn’t get, the ele players are definetely not the ones who need to l2p

Ultima.8673:

if u wanna nerf bunkerele u have to fix all bunkerclasses and if u do this u have to lower the burst classes especially thief and mesma and if u nerf too much then there will be no bunkers anymore .

ohhh it would be heaven ;P everyone playing with a balanced build would be so motivating

Zid.4196:

1. Don’t even bring GW1 into this.

2. ANet has officially stated Ele is supposed to be the most powerful class, now and ever, get over it.

@ Jonathan Sharp
Ele•
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

Where exactly does it say so? Also GW1 has been mentioned because like every MMO , people tend to run easy to run team formations.
In GW1 we had teams running with 3 monks + support character +3 ranger support/burst , they were of course counter to it
For instance expecting to beat everything with a single build is what is wrong with this community, many of you are not used to GW1 mentality, there you can’t have a “build to beat them all”…like in GW2, adapt or change!

rEaPeX.8415:

Ultima.8673:

if u wanna nerf bunkerele u have to fix all bunkerclasses and if u do this u have to lower the burst classes especially thief and mesma and if u nerf too much then there will be no bunkers anymore .

ohhh it would be heaven ;P everyone playing with a balanced build would be so motivating

Indeed it would be, but mnay people smply refuse to play balance builds, they want to have fun by killing people fast, hence even with “balanced” professions, people would still complain that profession X survive too much and they can’t kill them in 2s

Arheundel.6451:

First there is no perma chill skill or build, there are only bd players who keep attacking an ele with frost aura up:
-Frost aura= 2s chill on hit, 40s CD , 7s duration
-Frozen burst= 3s chill PBaoe, 15s Cd
-Freezing gust= 3 chills, single target, 25s CD
-Frozen ground = 40s CD, 2s chill, 5s field duration

Actually, there is. It’s just bad/ not viable

Asomal.6453:

Arheundel.6451:

First there is no perma chill skill or build, there are only bd players who keep attacking an ele with frost aura up:
-Frost aura= 2s chill on hit, 40s CD , 7s duration
-Frozen burst= 3s chill PBaoe, 15s Cd
-Freezing gust= 3 chills, single target, 25s CD
-Frozen ground = 40s CD, 2s chill, 5s field duration

Actually, there is. It’s just bad/ not viable

ha yes if you stack condition duration percentage % XD, of course that build is not viable at all..maybe for fun lol.
Unfortunately people here are claiming that eles got perma chill on a common d/d build

there is no perma chill build thats being used at the moment..my god people ask for nerfs before they even study what they are facing!
At least when i call for mesmer nerfs i have done my homework :P