Guild Wars 2

I just really hope that the new 6/6’s healing is nowhere near Necro’s Signet of the Locust, that would potentially be even more OP on cele specs than the current bonus, healing up some players to ~50% HP immediately after the burst.

Josh Davis.6015:

As a note (and to address concerns), we won’t be adding dire stats or perplexity runes to sPvP.

Dire + Perplexity is very common combination in WvWvW roaming. Why do you let it stay there if you see it too problematic for spvp? It is totally broken in WvWvW small scale roaming. And to make matters worse: WvWvW players use consumables which give +40% or -40% condition duration (this bonuses should be adjusted to max +/- 15 % ). There is a lot of people who care about balance in WvWvW, so please don’t tell me “WvWvW is unbalanced anyways…”.

I would rather see dire stats + perplexity runes added to spvp, so the developers could finally balance them!

Nocta.5274:

Can we buff Thief natural defenses now that Vamp runes are nerfed ? Pretty please ?

It’s not fun to get one shotted from stuff you sometimes can’t even see coming. Vamp runes kept abusive burst to feel unfair.

Woah, you’re some special kind of hypocrite.
First claiming thief to be fine until very recently and now that Vamp rightfully gets shafted you’re starting to cry over thief balance? The hypocritism in this forum never fails to amaze me.

OT:
Only took you guys a year to realize how broken vamp runes are, congratulations. I also applaud the decision to put some gimmick WvW Rune into sPvP, thats some pro balance right there.

kinda want perplex for berserker :-(

could have had such a joyful interruption of confusion

Dethl.2875:

inb4 the permastealth condi ranger/thief/guard complaints

You’ll probably only see this stuff in solo queue. But it still wouldn’t be that great because the Ranger/Guard has just wasted 3 useful cooldowns to try to surprise you when the Thief could just use 1.
Thieves could use it but there are more useful utilities I believe. And with the expac launching, it’s pretty impossible for them to pick a trap over a stun break that gives you an opening on your target.

Dirame.8521:

Dethl.2875:

inb4 the permastealth condi ranger/thief/guard complaints

You’ll probably only see this stuff in solo queue. But it still wouldn’t be that great because the Ranger/Guard has just wasted 3 useful cooldowns to try to surprise you when the Thief could just use 1.
Thieves could use it but there are more useful utilities I believe. And with the expac launching, it’s pretty impossible for them to pick a trap over a stun break that gives you an opening on your target.

the trap build never leaves stealth. it will be interesting to see if it catches on, its kittened to fight. if you don’t have a reveal its pure luck.

Doesnt matter just gief me ze Defender Runes

Ok, Trapper Rune will maybe not be a problem for higher PvP. But for SoloQ and even lower Tier PvP this Rune will destroy alot of fun. All the Condi Specs are annoying like hell allready. No need to make it more annoying.

To Keep Dire and Perplexity out of PvP is good. No need to buff Condi Mesmer.

All this started with the Idea of adding more Amuletts and now we get more Runes and other Crap.

Wow… Vampirism further nerf was long awaited… Sad day for thieves who actually have absolutely 0 additional passive defense procs. Oh well thieves getting the short end is quite the nowadays anyway…

However, I’m 100% against implementing Trapper Runes without Trap mechanics being changed. I participate in both PvP and WvW and currently, one of the most toxic and ridiculous combination in WvW is the Trapper Condi Thief. The possibility to maintain unlimited stealth duration (granted with hard counters like Reveal and stepping over Black Powder) is very very broken. Its the rune-class combo that actually made Stealth the overly-QQ’d mechanic that it is today…

Please if this rune will see the light of day in PvP game mode, make an adjustment for applied traps to introduce Reveal upon successful contact. You really don’t have to see how it turns out in PvP to roll this change, us WvW’ers have seen the broken aspects of it since Trapper Rune was made possible.

Thank you.

if you’re bringin in zealot and sinister you should add vitality to the amulet or they will be useless for most of the classes with a low health pool, please consider that.

i would like to have many more multi stats amulet because those are the most optimized, amulets without vitality kinda never get played in serious competitive matches because other than necro or warrior nobody has a big enough health pool to use a berserker amulet.

witcher.3197:

I just really hope that the new 6/6’s healing is nowhere near Necro’s Signet of the Locust, that would potentially be even more OP on cele specs than the current bonus, healing up some players to ~50% HP immediately after the burst.

yeh i actually stopped using vampirism runes on my staff ele cause they kittened up my heals too many times where i could have survived …

with the 5x life leech though they might actually now become op for me at least^^

witcher.3197:

I just really hope that the new 6/6’s healing is nowhere near Necro’s Signet of the Locust, that would potentially be even more OP on cele specs than the current bonus, healing up some players to ~50% HP immediately after the burst.

I’m a bit worried about how lackluster or overbearing this change can be, and I don’t think you’re looking at the big picture here. On the one hand, if it scales like Sigil of Leeching, it can potentially heal for 4875 health. On the other hand, if it scales like Sigil of Blood, it can heal for a potential base of 2265. However, both of these potential amounts would be extremely rare to see in actuality, and the procs on single opponents will be altogether more common making the life-stealing proc a mostly bleak saving grace if that. No matter how you look at it, this new sixth bonus will be a statistical underachiever.

I guess my suggestion would be to have a 900-radius proc scaling like Sigil of Blood. Even with 3000 power, that would be only but a mere be 225 damage per affected target.

laquito.5269:

Nocta.5274:

Can we buff Thief natural defenses now that Vamp runes are nerfed ? Pretty please ?

It’s not fun to get one shotted from stuff you sometimes can’t even see coming. Vamp runes kept abusive burst to feel unfair.

Woah, you’re some special kind of hypocrite.
First claiming thief to be fine until very recently and now that Vamp rightfully gets shafted you’re starting to cry over thief balance? The hypocritism in this forum never fails to amaze me.

OT:
Only took you guys a year to realize how broken vamp runes are, congratulations. I also applaud the decision to put some gimmick WvW Rune into sPvP, thats some pro balance right there.

Well, yeah, Thief is fine, but this change affect it a lot, so a slight buff to compensate wouldn’t be too much.
You’re saying this like I’m making a full 180 on what I usually sayu.. which is not the case at all. :/

I just feel like Vamp runes is a big part of why Thief can currently engage in some fights they couldn’t without them.

Nocta.5274:

I just feel like Vamp runes is a big part of why Thief can currently engage in some fights they couldn’t without them.

^ This is true.

Vamp rune and Marauder Amulet are quite vital in the survivability department for thieves. Thieves have stealth and ports to actively negate damage done, however there are no passive procs to save their butts in case of focus-fired.

Unfortunately majority of the classes in competitive pvp do have passive defense, hence losing the passive defense of Vamp rune will not affect them in the same level.

Great suggestions, Absconditus.

It’s not a novelty but I think something similar to the Cheat Death mechanic Rogues have in WoW would be great for Thieves.

For people that don’t know about it, it’s a passive that makes it when a Rogue would take fatal damage, they instead survive with very low health and get heavy damage reduction for a few seconds. Has a pretty heavy ICD of course.

I’m not saying this is necessary, I’m just very scared of playing Thief without the security of vamp runes. It makes the class even harder to play and even less able to engage in teamfights.

Nocta.5274:

It’s not a novelty but I think something similar to the Cheat Death mechanic Rogues have in WoW would be great for Thieves.

For people that don’t know about it, it’s a passive that makes it when a Rogue would take fatal damage, they instead survive with very low health and get heavy damage reduction for a few seconds. Has a pretty heavy ICD of course.

I’m not saying this is necessary, I’m just very scared of playing Thief without the security of vamp runes. It makes the class even harder to play and even less able to engage in teamfights.

How often can thieves stealth in combat in WoW, how is their mobility compared to other classes? (I don’t play WoW)

But back to GW2, classes that have huge amounts of disengage like thief & mes, should not get passives like that, it would be as broken as vamp runes on classes with so much disengage, if thieves need help to fight in teamfights then it should come through other less obnoxious means than vamp runes or similar traits.

They have excellent mobility, having either a low CD teleport to people, or a 3sec CD sprint that removes movement impairing effects.

Stealth is very limitted in WoW tho. It’s hardly comparable. Stealth abilities are much more powerful and more about CC than damage. No restealth in combat but they get a restealth ability every 3min with a 5min CD that refresh it

im really hoping the sinister is coming as 4-stat amulet (vitality as minor). 3x offensive stat amulets are pretty much worthless, just too squishy. I never see anyone use assassin, rampager or berserker.

Stilgar.6437:

im really hoping the sinister is coming as 4-stat amulet (vitality as minor). 3x offensive stat amulets are pretty much worthless, just too squishy. I never see anyone use assassin, rampager or berserker.

Why would it be more than 3 stats when sinister itself is 3 stats? As long as its named sinister it will have 3 stats regardless of whatever else people want because that’s what sinister is. They changed zerk and valk to the same stats in PvP as pve this won’t be any different.

Sigmoid.7082:

Stilgar.6437:

im really hoping the sinister is coming as 4-stat amulet (vitality as minor). 3x offensive stat amulets are pretty much worthless, just too squishy. I never see anyone use assassin, rampager or berserker.

Why would it be more than 3 stats when sinister itself is 3 stats? As long as its named sinister it will have 3 stats regardless of whatever else people want because that’s what sinister is. They changed zerk and valk to the same stats in PvP as pve this won’t be any different.

he said its only 1 example of upcoming amulets, so im hoping they are introducing a more balanced variants of sinister too. Just like when they changed berserker they introduced a balanced variant – marauder.

Nocta.5274:

Well, yeah, Thief is fine, but this change affect it a lot, so a slight buff to compensate wouldn’t be too much.
You’re saying this like I’m making a full 180 on what I usually sayu.. which is not the case at all. :/

I just feel like Vamp runes is a big part of why Thief can currently engage in some fights they couldn’t without them.

Well I think you’ll agree with me that somethings gotta be wrong with a class that solely gets carried or made viable by a particular rune set.

Vamp Runes are just braindead, its yolo passive that gets you out of jail eventhough you were supposed to die, whats even worse you can even safestomp with it.

D/P SA is passive enough already, but with Vamp runes you’re literally immortal. Out of this very specific spec, thief is garbage though. Maybe ANet finally realizes that thief isn’t as great as it is always said to be once this trash rune is gone.

No offense though, everybody got their own opinion after all.

Stilgar.6437:

Sigmoid.7082:

Stilgar.6437:

im really hoping the sinister is coming as 4-stat amulet (vitality as minor). 3x offensive stat amulets are pretty much worthless, just too squishy. I never see anyone use assassin, rampager or berserker.

Why would it be more than 3 stats when sinister itself is 3 stats? As long as its named sinister it will have 3 stats regardless of whatever else people want because that’s what sinister is. They changed zerk and valk to the same stats in PvP as pve this won’t be any different.

he said its only 1 example of upcoming amulets, so im hoping they are introducing a more balanced variants of sinister too. Just like when they changed berserker they introduced a balanced variant – marauder.

They only “introduced” marauder and crusader to be close to what the old zerk and valk amulets were. Literally everything else is the same as their pve variant. They may be introducing more 4 stats but I don’t know because they want to keep it as simple as possible so I believe we won’t get stat combos that aren’t readily available in pve.

laquito.5269:

Nocta.5274:

Well, yeah, Thief is fine, but this change affect it a lot, so a slight buff to compensate wouldn’t be too much.
You’re saying this like I’m making a full 180 on what I usually sayu.. which is not the case at all. :/

I just feel like Vamp runes is a big part of why Thief can currently engage in some fights they couldn’t without them.

Well I think you’ll agree with me that somethings gotta be wrong with a class that solely gets carried or made viable by a particular rune set.

Vamp Runes are just braindead, its yolo passive that gets you out of jail eventhough you were supposed to die, whats even worse you can even safestomp with it.

D/P SA is passive enough already, but with Vamp runes you’re literally immortal. Out of this very specific spec, thief is garbage though. Maybe ANet finally realizes that thief isn’t as great as it is always said to be once this trash rune is gone.

No offense though, everybody got their own opinion after all.

Heh, I agree with you overall. Thief has a LOT of core issues that will need addressing once they finally remove / nerf all the crutch it’s relying on these days.

Although I just can’t agree when people say the class is useless or ineffective right now. It’s just hard to have decent discussions about it because people are so extreme on the bad side of things that I tend to be extreme in the other side when it comes up.

Do not bring this to spvp in it’s current form:

• (1): +25 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (2): The Condition Duration Duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
• (3): +50 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (4): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of super speed.
• (5): +100 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (6): Gain 3 seconds of Currently invisible. Ends if you deal damage. Stealth when using a trap skill.

Even as a Ranger main I have to call bullkitten on this one. I’m telling you, this is exactly what is going to happen:

• Ranger with as much stealth as a Thief – This further takes away from the role of the Thief and his purpose. This is not good as the Thief seems to be losing his role anyway.
• Super Speed on every trap proc – This mixed with Quickening Zephyr + Stealth will create Ranger specs that will be literally uncatchable/unkillable. No, I’m not joking around about this, ask any of the other avid Ranger players on this forum and they’ll agree.
• No one will use Druid trait line. The Druid trait line will become useless because everyone will be running pure DPS AoE nuke builds on the Ranger. Builds that are uncatchable and unkillable at that.

This rune simply offers too much disengage for the Ranger. If you insist on releasing this rune in spvp, it needs to be reworked immediately and it should look morel like this:

• (1): +25 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (2): The Condition Duration Duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
• (3): +50 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (4): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of PROTECTON.
• (5): +100 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (6): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of STABILITY.

Or whatever it is that you decide on. Either way, do not add the current trapper rune in it’s current form. If you do, I will personally fraps up a great video on day 1 release of this rune and show you why this is an incredibly bad idea.

bliss.4305:

Wow… Vampirism further nerf was long awaited… Sad day for thieves who actually have absolutely 0 additional passive defense procs. Oh well thieves getting the short end is quite the nowadays anyway…

However, I’m 100% against implementing Trapper Runes without Trap mechanics being changed. I participate in both PvP and WvW and currently, one of the most toxic and ridiculous combination in WvW is the Trapper Condi Thief. The possibility to maintain unlimited stealth duration (granted with hard counters like Reveal and stepping over Black Powder) is very very broken. Its the rune-class combo that actually made Stealth the overly-QQ’d mechanic that it is today…

Please if this rune will see the light of day in PvP game mode, make an adjustment for applied traps to introduce Reveal upon successful contact. You really don’t have to see how it turns out in PvP to roll this change, us WvW’ers have seen the broken aspects of it since Trapper Rune was made possible.

Thank you.

I agree in some points you mention. Trapper-condi-thieves are annoying. But these type of builds are based on traps, the perhaps most high risk-high reward utility in the game. You gain literally nothing, until someone steps in the trap. Without trapper-rune nobody could ever afford having more than one of them in his bar. I really think, nobody would ever carry one of them, because other utilities are so much more reliable.

I personally assume, we will see some dragonhunter “sniper” builds, with zerker amulet and stealth fired trueshot. That can be really hard hitting, but leaves the dh pretty defenseless, when he is revealed. Because to make trapper runes viable, you will have to take at least 3 traps with you. Not much space left for condi cleaning, blocking, whatever.
You are right, we will hear some QQs about hard-hitting DHs and Rangers out of stealth. But i really dont think this builds will be matchdeciding. With this much reveal abilities HOT brings up, they are down in a second in every teamfight. Capping and defending points is also hardly possible, when you have to stay in stealth most of the time.

I’m looking forward to play the trapper runes on my DH in WvW for roaming. I hope, the stealth will save my kitten some times and i can get some surpising bursts out with my traps. But believe me, there is much i will sacrifice for it. Medi sustain and condi cleaning, blocks and invulnerability.

In PvP i can hardly see me using trapper-runes on my DH/Guard. There are much better things, my profession can bring up to the table than that. Perhaps i will not kill so much people during a match like a stealth-sniper-dh, but my team will win a match
more likely i think.

Greetings

Jimmy

P.S.: Most trapper-condi-thief-builds in WvW dont have a single stunbreaker. With this much reveal they will have a much harder time in HOT than before. Because they rely only on being invisible. Once they are revealed, they are dead. Stealth in HOT is not was it was the three years until now. It will be counterable by many classes, ands thats pretty good imo.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Do not bring this to spvp in it’s current form:

• (1): +25 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (2): The Condition Duration Duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
• (3): +50 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (4): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of super speed.
• (5): +100 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (6): Gain 3 seconds of Currently invisible. Ends if you deal damage. Stealth when using a trap skill.

Even as a Ranger main I have to call bullkitten on this one. I’m telling you, this is exactly what is going to happen:

• Ranger with as much stealth as a Thief – This further takes away from the role of the Thief and his purpose. This is not good as the Thief seems to be losing his role anyway.
• Super Speed on every trap proc – This mixed with Quickening Zephyr + Stealth will create Ranger specs that will be literally uncatchable/unkillable. No, I’m not joking around about this, ask any of the other avid Ranger players on this forum and they’ll agree.
• No one will use Druid trait line. The Druid trait line will become useless because everyone will be running pure DPS AoE nuke builds on the Ranger. Builds that are uncatchable and unkillable at that.

This rune simply offers too much disengage for the Ranger. If you insist on releasing this rune in spvp, it needs to be reworked immediately and it should look morel like this:

• (1): +25 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (2): The Condition Duration Duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
• (3): +50 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (4): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of PROTECTON.
• (5): +100 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (6): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of STABILITY.

Or whatever it is that you decide on. Either way, do not add the current trapper rune in it’s current form. If you do, I will personally fraps up a great video on day 1 release of this rune and show you why this is an incredibly bad idea.

We Nerf As One – Chapter 2

Get a calculator dude d/p thieves have perma stealth without using utilities
With all 3 lowest cooldown traps you’ll get just slightly over 50% stealth uptime
Not to mention traps reveal you because they deal damage…
And 0 breakstun have fun

Heck if they add trapper rune to pvp they could as well fix frost trap missing first tick.

Trap thief are you kidding…

I was talking about Rangers, not Thieves.
Read the post before commenting.

RevanCorana.8942:

We Nerf As One – Chapter 2

Get a calculator dude d/p thieves have perma stealth without using utilities
With all 3 lowest cooldown traps you’ll get just slightly over 50% stealth uptime
Not to mention traps reveal you because they deal damage…
And 0 breakstun have fun

Heck if they add trapper rune to pvp they could as well fix frost trap missing first tick.

Trap thief are you kidding…

Get a grip dude, because you’re clearly clueless:

1) D/P thieves can’t possibly perma-stealth without using any utilities. Do that, record it and share with us so we see as well. So far, you can only stack 4 stealths, then 2 and you’re out of initiative. When you use your utilities to perma-stealth, you’re basically not being an asset to your team at all and using your only defensive skills to remain unseen. Has absolutely no benefit aside from being permanently invisible.

2) With 3 lowest cooldown traps + Trapper Rune + D/P you CAN get permanent stealth uptime. You can just spam traps in between D/P stealth stacking and remain in stealth.

3) Traps don’t reveal you when they deal damage. Any DIRECT damage reveals you through stealth. Conditions that are applied through traps are not revealing and that’s the WHOLE POINT.

4) Yes, I’ve mentioned there are ways to counter permanent stealth uptime of Trapper rune condition based trap thieves with the use of Reveals and getting damaged inside Black Powder… but there are still ways to counter being stunned as a thief (hint: steal)

Before you lecture people, at least know that what you said isn’t complete BS so you won’t get ridiculed like this in the future.

just use rune of svanir instead of vamp runes , yes u cant move as ice block like u could with mist form . BUT u can use utility instant casts and class mechanics .. downside might be that it is a thoughness rune and not a power one

Stealth
Regarding Rune of the Trapper, for me it’s not that the runes are the problem they add quite an interesting gameplay for Traps. But a problem intrinsic to stealth.

GW2 stealth has little data points for spectators & non stealthed parties for interaction bar the initial stealthed point & point of reveal & the only other counter play is a hard reveal. Having only these 2 data points means stealth battles rely more on luck & bad guesses (Aka. Mind Games) to make decisions on for what action you need to take or for spectators to follow from a non stealthed view point (also if both parties have stealth you still only have the same data).

Now were talking about a visual video game but talking away all data point inputs bar entry & exit for players & spectators to interact with. Mind games can be fun but generally are not a friendly spectator sport or entertainment to watch.

If interested I was looking at the idea of Visible Clues for improving stealth combat. The aim was to provide more data points to make decisions on & provide better spectatoring while still keeping much of the current gameplay & advantages of current GW2 stealth.

Dire Stats
For me the issues with Dire is not the sustain combat (this is fine) but the ability for condition bursts. Conditions are unique in that for maximum damage for a single stack only require 1 passive stat (Condition Damage) & that they ignore armour. Just these two facts means a direct comparison between Dire & Soldiers is not possible.

If looking at skill bursts Dire applies maximum possible burst condition damage but if your trying to do that with direct damage (White) you would be looking at needing Power, Precision (100% Crit-Chance) & Ferocity.

Dire’s sustain damage is fine it’s how fights should play out with conditions, “The longer it goes the more dangerous the sustain condition player becomes”. Dire’s problem is with the condition stacking change, it now also gives the best condition burst possible while still receiving Vitality & Toughness (Imagine a Burn Guard with Dire).

I fine the idea of condition burst acceptability but not that it only requires a single stat. A solution would be to allow conditions to crit & rebalance them around that. Condition Burst would then require Sinister similar to how Direct (White) requires Berserker. This would turn Dire for conditions into exactly what Soldier’s is for Direct.

Rune of Perplexity
Regarding Rune of Perplexity it all comes down the to 4th bonus 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 sec. I see 2 options:

1. Reduce the applied duration to 2 or 1 sec.
2. Remove it & replace it with something else (eg. maybe 25% chance when struck to stealth for 3 sec).

Option 1 then becomes a type of burst deterrent which foes would want to remove before applying their burst. But it should expire quickly in general combat making not activating a skill a viable option & not such a punishment through this passive confusion.

Option 2 removes the issues. My idea behind the addition of stealth was in keeping the confusion theme by adding position confusion.

Josh Davis.6015:

Looks like the other thread got moved over to the HoT forum.

Josh Davis.6015:

As mentioned on today’s GuildChat, we will indeed be adding a slew of new stat combos, runes, and sigils to sPvP with the launch of Heart of Thorns. A small example of what we’ll be adding are trapper runes and sinister stats, but there’s plenty more for you to discover on October 23.

As a note (and to address concerns), we won’t be adding dire stats or perplexity runes to sPvP. We’re vetting and discussing each and every rune/sigil/stat combo as a group before adding them in, with the main goal being improving build diversity.

I’ll also mention that we’re going to be changing the 6/6 bonus on Vampirism. After HoT launch it will no longer proc Mist Form at 25% hp, but will instead cast an AoE lifesteal to up to 5 nearby targets. This will reduce the binary defensive nature of the rune and bring it more inline with similar sets.

There’s going to be a lot of change with the launch next week, and we’re going to be watching balance very closely in all game modes. We will be working to address any emergent gameplay we’re not comfortable with as quickly as possible.

-Grouch

PS, thank you Roy and Izzy for getting these changes in.

Translation: dear thieves please uninstall. Ktnksbye.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Do not bring this to spvp in it’s current form:

• (1): +25 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (2): The Condition Duration Duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
• (3): +50 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (4): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of super speed.
• (5): +100 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (6): Gain 3 seconds of Currently invisible. Ends if you deal damage. Stealth when using a trap skill.

Even as a Ranger main I have to call bullkitten on this one. I’m telling you, this is exactly what is going to happen:

• Ranger with as much stealth as a Thief – This further takes away from the role of the Thief and his purpose. This is not good as the Thief seems to be losing his role anyway.
• Super Speed on every trap proc – This mixed with Quickening Zephyr + Stealth will create Ranger specs that will be literally uncatchable/unkillable. No, I’m not joking around about this, ask any of the other avid Ranger players on this forum and they’ll agree.
• No one will use Druid trait line. The Druid trait line will become useless because everyone will be running pure DPS AoE nuke builds on the Ranger. Builds that are uncatchable and unkillable at that.

This rune simply offers too much disengage for the Ranger. If you insist on releasing this rune in spvp, it needs to be reworked immediately and it should look morel like this:

• (1): +25 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (2): The Condition Duration Duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
• (3): +50 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (4): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of PROTECTON.
• (5): +100 Condition Damage Condition Damage
• (6): When you use a trap skill, you gain 3 seconds of STABILITY.

Or whatever it is that you decide on. Either way, do not add the current trapper rune in it’s current form. If you do, I will personally fraps up a great video on day 1 release of this rune and show you why this is an incredibly bad idea.

Trap builds on ranger will still be weak because they have poor condition cleanse and poor ability to handle CC and focus fire, partially because none of the traps have a stunbreak, plus they all have cast times. Also, I’d wager that the current weakness of ranger builds, especially condition ranger builds, is that they have poor disenegage compared to other classes. I do see them being potentially a bit overtuned in 1v1s, but thats more due to the condition output of the traps themselves rather than anything the runeset gives them. For power ranger builds, I find it balanced because you’re forced to take +condition damage on your runeset so your power damage is lower in exchange for all the stealth you get, AND the traps themselves don’t seem to be particularly useful for a power builds in terms of damage.

Dragonhunter trap builds will end up being a bit more balanced since they will have better stunbreak and cleansing, can work for either power or condi, and they actually require these runes to not feel completely kitten for not using meditations, so personally I’d suggest looking at the larger picture of builds on other classes before you suggest changes that would kitten other builds on other professions.

And once we adequately test it, if it proves to be too strong, we can always suggest that they shave the stealth duration down to 2 seconds. Your suggestions would actually make condition rangers even more overtuned in holding a point in 1v1, which may be good for them in those 1v1s. The current beauty of these runes in conquest pvp is that its a trade-off between disengage and pointholding power, you can’t do both at the same time, and I’d rather we keep that duality to trap builds instead of pigeonholing them into a sidenode bunker build, because those builds aren’t very viable in higher tier matches because they’re inflexible and can’t adapt very well to different scenarios, they can’t teamfight or hold a point in a teamfight, and stealth runes would give them tools to not be completely focus fired out of existence in a teamfight.

Don’t forget that the almost assuredly meta builds for herald and scrapper (and even dragonhunter) will have extremely high access to revealed, so stealth won’t be as godmode as you think it will be.

tl:dr- Trapper runes will probably be fine as is.

Trapper runes in pvp might be fun to play, but nothing you’d want to play against.
Not sure if I like it

Grouchhh please consider adding +Power, +Precision, +vit/toughness and +Condi, +power, +vit/toughness as crossover amulets between Marauder/soldiers and carrion/rabid

Well it’s also about how Guild Wars 2 is leaning towards too much stealth play. If this trapper rune is released we’ll now have Rangers and Guardians being added to the list of classes with viable stealth.

Classes with viable stealth after trapper is released:

• Thief
• Mesmer
• Ranger
• Engineer
• Guardian

Classes without viable stealth:

• Warrior
• Revenant
• Elementalist
• Necromancer

That’s going to be 5 classes with viable stealth opposed to 4 without. This is a problem because many attacks in the game require actual targeting to hit. When most of the classes in the game are able to stealth and deny the enemy of targeting, I believe it will create more balance issues than arena-net is anticipating.

I like how instead of fixing the Runes of Vamparism bug, they just changed it instead.

I really hope they add Superior Sigil of Cleansing to PvP!

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Well it’s also about how Guild Wars 2 is leaning towards too much stealth play. If this trapper rune is released we’ll now have Rangers and Guardians being added to the list of classes with viable stealth.

Classes with viable stealth after trapper is released:

• Thief
• Mesmer
• Ranger
• Engineer
• Guardian

Classes without viable stealth:

• Warrior
• Revenant
• Elementalist
• Necromancer

That’s going to be 5 classes with viable stealth opposed to 4 without. This is a problem because many attacks in the game require actual targeting to hit. When most of the classes in the game are able to stealth and deny the enemy of targeting, I believe it will create more balance issues than arena-net is anticipating.

I disagree that it will cause balance issues. People in stealth can’t cap a point, and the selfish nature of trap stealth keeps it from being used like a thief, mes, scrapper, or Druid can to Rez allies. It will only really be used to disengage, and I’m glad that two classes with poor disengage ability will get a tool to help correct their deficiency in this important component that’s holding dps guard and various ranger builds back from being truly greats

The only time stealth has ever been too strong was PU with 100% duration, and that was because it made Mesmer too easy to play due to the simplicity of the stealth skills. With trap runes you need to blow important offensive and defensive cool downs to gain the stealth, and using it offensively means you’ll easily get revealed. You won’t be able to use it to make easy stealth approaches or endlessly reset the fight simply because your resources to do that are limited compare to what a prenerf PU mes or shadow arts thief can do.

Also worth mentioning is that we don’t know how action camera mode will work with stealth, but it might make it easier to hit stealthier targets with projectiles.

And my previous argument still stands.. Trap Rangers will still struggle with a condition weakness and a CC weakness no matter how you look it at it, which will make all that stealth a lot less powerful as you think it could.

My Carrion TorchTrap Ranger will enjoy this.

Good job anet, because balance no?

Well, it really looks like thief is dropping out of puggin completly. If stealth is given out this often together with superspeed…..
If you get 3 secs stealth and superspeed you can change the rotation easily without beeing seen and the opponent has to react afterwords. One of the view things a thief was still quite important for.
I fear, a stealth nerf will follow because of all this stealth and hief is getting downed even more….
Sry, but I cannot understand why anet decides to keep stuff like the trapper rune out of pvp for a good reason and suddenly just need new stuff. Instead of thinking of sth putting in old stuff that hasnt been there for a reason is not a good way….

also i think ppl forget about reveal trap/mechanism which will be add soon

guardian can reveal, engi can ranger can. so more stealth will bring more reveal tactics to the game

also p/p thieves may use the trapper runes and gain stealth abilities
and guardian with traps can be intresting to see

p/p thieves are more or less useless, if you want this playstyle use a ranger, its much better. Everything is working against thieves. I didnt complain about the thief state much, i most times disagread on the thief is dead stuff, but this is just stupid.

in the end what kind of amulet (ofc i have amulets that i want more than others) you add is not that important to me (i’m glad that you are adding new ones) but one important thing is that you consider balanced versions of each. i have mentioned this before but if you add pure sinister stats many classes won’t be able to use them because there is no vitality on it. similar to berserker and marauder you should also add a vitality version of sinister (and zealot and whatever amulet you will add).

the recent big balance patch just made vitality on amulets so much more important because traitline stats are gone.

for a thief ele or guardian it’s impossible to play on 11k hp so you either have to give up on that amulet as a whole or you use vitality runes for some builds (cleric guard with soldier runes).

i just hope you’re aware of that and consider it an option

SpookyPoo.8135:

Ahahahah! Don’t they realise the people suggesting Trapper runes were trolling?
I suppose they’re adding Defender runes for Chronomancer too ..
still the best way to get something balanced is to introduce it into PvP.

Please reconsider Dire/Perplexity too!

This is kind of what I was getting at trapper runes are barely better than perplexity insofar as trolley kind of runes go.

messiah.1908:

also i think ppl forget about reveal trap/mechanism which will be add soon

guardian can reveal, engi can ranger can. so more stealth will bring more reveal tactics to the game

also p/p thieves may use the trapper runes and gain stealth abilities
and guardian with traps can be intresting to see

Are you serious?

So far no reveal skill is being used neither in PvP nor WvW for a single reason – you have to sacrifice important skill for that – mostly survival one like stun break, condi removal etc.

If Anet won’t rework Revealed system and properly adjust it to current skills, then it’s a no go.

Tao.5096:

messiah.1908:

also i think ppl forget about reveal trap/mechanism which will be add soon

guardian can reveal, engi can ranger can. so more stealth will bring more reveal tactics to the game

also p/p thieves may use the trapper runes and gain stealth abilities
and guardian with traps can be intresting to see

Are you serious?

So far no reveal skill is being used neither in PvP nor WvW for a single reason – you have to sacrifice important skill for that – mostly survival one like stun break, condi removal etc.

If Anet won’t rework Revealed system and properly adjust it to current skills, then it’s a no go.

More and more engineers are taking the reveal trait in tools, also Heralds will get a reveal skill they can’t un-equip even if they want to, and it has ~20 sec cd.

Tao.5096:

messiah.1908:

also i think ppl forget about reveal trap/mechanism which will be add soon

guardian can reveal, engi can ranger can. so more stealth will bring more reveal tactics to the game

also p/p thieves may use the trapper runes and gain stealth abilities
and guardian with traps can be intresting to see

Are you serious?

So far no reveal skill is being used neither in PvP nor WvW for a single reason – you have to sacrifice important skill for that – mostly survival one like stun break, condi removal etc.

If Anet won’t rework Revealed system and properly adjust it to current skills, then it’s a no go.

i think as more stealth abilities coming we will se more reveal trait /utilities being used

maybe i am wrong but who knows atm.

atm no skill is being used cause only at the beggining of the fight the stealth is being used by the whole team usually on mid fight. but consider ranger trapper stealthing to far to decap or guardian . maybe we will see more tactic game of silent hunter submarines games.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

p/p thieves are more or less useless, if you want this playstyle use a ranger, its much better. Everything is working against thieves. I didnt complain about the thief state much, i most times disagread on the thief is dead stuff, but this is just stupid.

maybe so. p/p is useless cause of no escape utilities or evade skill and no stealth abilities

maybe the stealth and dash will bring it back

ranger cannot burst like p/p thief. sure he can block and disengage better but this gonna change in few days .. we shall see…
also this is the reason anet state they gonna rework on the p/p . cause no one is using it atm.

messiah.1908:

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

p/p thieves are more or less useless, if you want this playstyle use a ranger, its much better. Everything is working against thieves. I didnt complain about the thief state much, i most times disagread on the thief is dead stuff, but this is just stupid.

maybe so. p/p is useless cause of no escape utilities or evade skill and no stealth abilities

maybe the stealth and dash will bring it back

ranger cannot burst like p/p thief. sure he can block and disengage better but this gonna change in few days .. we shall see…
also this is the reason anet state they gonna rework on the p/p . cause no one is using it atm.

Funny thing is there were a lot of people using it before they cut ricochet because it “hurt the purity of the pistol”. Sure it was never going to be a tournament level build but it was something a lot of people liked to mess around with.