Guild Wars 2

I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?

Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.

Thief

Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7k

Revenant

Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!

And wait for the biased cancerous players come defend thief.

XxsdgxX.8109:

And wait for the biased cancerous players come defend thief.

Guarantee this will be the defense

“We’re squishy.”

Thief was always meant to do high damage but be very sensitive to damage themselves… IMO

I was cringing so much looking at all of the damage buffs given to thief, this is going to get ugly quickly

Thief was soft counter to rev due to how rev heals operate but now thief will demolish any rev on a sigh. Season 2 will be fun.

mrauls.6519:

Thief was always meant to do high damage but be very sensitive to damage themselves… IMO

But 6k AA DPS without might with sPvP stats ? In WvWvW Thief with ascendent gear and food kill everi one only with AA lol

Guess Anet forgets why they cut down thief’s damage in the first place back then zzz.

15K backstab anyone?

how do you check the dps?

btw they said they want thieves use initiative most for defense ( i don’t get how it could counter a 17k/sec dmg, but lets go on ), so they chose to incrase weapons dps ( seems just strange that dagger have 50% extra dps than a staff/sword ).

you test dmg on which golem btw ?
Light Armor?

Shirlias.8104:

how do you check the dps?

btw they said they want thieves use initiative most for defense ( i don’t get how it could counter a 17k/sec dmg, but lets go on ), so they chose to incrase weapons dps ( seems just strange that dagger have 50% extra dps than a staff/sword ).

you test dmg on which golem btw ?
Light Armor?

Target golem

Clearly all Grouch’s fault. As per usual.

Just do a 1v1 between rev using aa+quickness and rite proc at 50% hp vs thief doing only aa . Have good laugh.

Evilek.5690:

Shirlias.8104:

how do you check the dps?

btw they said they want thieves use initiative most for defense ( i don’t get how it could counter a 17k/sec dmg, but lets go on ), so they chose to incrase weapons dps ( seems just strange that dagger have 50% extra dps than a staff/sword ).

you test dmg on which golem btw ?
Light Armor?

Target golem

there are 3 golems ( light medium heavy ).

also, as said before, what do you use to check dps?

Just as a point of clarity, the OP is saying DPS, which means he’s saying if you stand there auto attacking you get 6k outgoing damage a second average.

A full auto chain takes over 1s to do and pre patch would easily average out at 6k for the whole chain in marauder amulet. I did the math for Cynz when she didn’t believe shadow shot could do 4k, which I’ll admit it was more like 3.5k.

So yeah, everyone enjoy losing half your health to 1 full auto chain =D

Edit: Also the target golems have higher armour than players, think light is something like 2.1k armour which is much higher than a no toughness light.

Shirlias.8104:

Evilek.5690:

Shirlias.8104:

how do you check the dps?

btw they said they want thieves use initiative most for defense ( i don’t get how it could counter a 17k/sec dmg, but lets go on ), so they chose to incrase weapons dps ( seems just strange that dagger have 50% extra dps than a staff/sword ).

you test dmg on which golem btw ?
Light Armor?

Target golem

there are 3 golems ( light medium heavy ).

also, as said before, what do you use to check dps?

Ehm Taget golem (indestructible)

Not only Rev’s damage got butchered (aside from not even buffing staff or just anything else in fact) it also got it’s survability neutered lol. Come on, I can get the AA nerf but because we were promised attention on other things. ANETs response seems to be to always to overnerf and overbuff things simultaneously… and each 3 kittening months

btw, i don’t get it.

they buffed AA, which is ok, but buffed Too much, and the most, the dagger build, which is already the top thief meta build ( blind abuse + stealth ).

Mah… as thief ( and expecially as Staff Thief ) i am disappointed.

@evilek: i said cause characters have different armor, and i dont know the ind one what kind of target could be. Btw, tried with all 3 golems and as said before, the dagger damage is op ( hope in a good nerf before s2 starts ).

XxsdgxX.8109:

Not only Rev’s damage got butchered (aside from not even buffing staff or just anything else in fact) it also got it’s survability neutered lol. Come on, I can get the AA nerf but because we were promised attention on other things. ANETs response seems to be to always to overnerf and overbuff things simultaneously… and each 3 kittening months

The logic is..we feel rev sword auto is too high so we nerf it and buff thief auto to even more ridiculous level bc logic. We want thief to spend init on defense.. like rev doesnt need energy for defense but again logic so its all okay.

Funny part nobody asked for it, all we asked for is better way to land dmg and give us ability to live longer than 1 sec in all that aoe spam.

I just find it funny just how massively they buffed thief damage, versus how pathetic the warrior changes were, considering thiefs were at least somewhat usable last meta if you knew what you were doing but warriors were just plain trash

At least thieves now won’t boast about how their class requires skill and tactics, it’s plain stealth 1111.

You all crying cause thief this and that poor rev poor ele poor warrior poor guard etc etc etc…
All i think about is: wow thats my dps with a full buffed mesmer!

Cynz.9437:

Funny part nobody asked for it, all we asked for is better way to land dmg and give us ability to live longer than 1 sec in all that aoe spam.

Acrobatic Tree.

Stealth requires two buttons! :P Or a utility..

But for a complete view, show all classes and their AA dps on a full zerk full crit buffed spec. Wouldn’t surprise me if this isn’t even the weirdest of them all.

Cynz.9437:

Funny part nobody asked for it, all we asked for is better way to land dmg and give us ability to live longer than 1 sec in all that aoe spam.

That’s Anet’s ridiculous balance philosophy: trying to counter OPness by OPness.

This is not cry topic. Thief its my main with 4.2k hours play time but this is to mutch.Play with broken class and kill every class on Basilisk venom and AA chain it’s not funny

Starting today.

“Thieves, Thieves, Everywhere!”

Basilisk venom is Bugged from some accounts haven’t tested it, apparently doesn’t stun and does AA damage on strike but is unblockable.

And another user Galandil posted these results for each weapon again not sure how conclusive can’t test right now at work,

Galandil.9641:

Ok, I’ll add something to the math calculated DPS of all the main weapons.

I did the test using the jaxnX DPS meter on the immortal golem in the lobby.

I removed ALL damage buffing rune/sigils/traits, with Marauder amulet, and avoided (by asking people not to) any Might/Fury boons during the test. The stats are these:

Power: 2050
Crit. chance: 62.57% (Signet of Agility equipped)
Crit. dmg: 187.3%

I checked the DPS twice for each weapon, stopping when I reached 1M dmg overall. The results are:

Staff – 3100 DPS (consider the constant 13-16 Vuln stacks)
Sword – 2800 DPS
Dagger – 3400 (3-4 constant Poison stacks)

I’m baffled by my results compared to the math done before in the thread, since from that apparently Staff should have a lot higher DPS than Dagger AA. Must be cause of the aftercasts in game opposed to theoretical ones.

However, as far as AA goes, Dagger wins by a huge margin.

Galandil.9641:

reikken.4961:

Galandil.9641:

I checked the DPS twice for each weapon, stopping when I reached 1M dmg overall. The results are:

Staff – 3100 DPS (consider the constant 13-16 Vuln stacks)
Sword – 2800 DPS
Dagger – 3400 (3-4 constant Poison stacks)

I have no idea how you’re getting so much lower numbers for sword than dagger, when I’m getting almost the exact same damage. 3200 for sword and 3350 for dagger (I turned off poison damage in the log. but it’s only ~100 dps anyway)

This is odd. Did you check if you had NO dmg buffing equip/traits?

I used Acro/SA/DD with no major traits equipped (only the minors, they don’t give any dmg buff), and I used Sigil of Bloodlust + Benevolence + Rune of Altruism (so no dmg buffs from these too).

The difference thou can be caused by the variance of crit. chance and wpn dmg (sword has a wider range, 950-1050, while dagger a smaller range, 970-1030).

However, I did again the sword DPS test, this time I got 2950 (explained by variance), while with Swindler’s Equilibrium I achieved a 3200 DPS (way higher than a +5% increment in DPS).

If you can all do some more tests, it’ll be very useful, but still apparently sword has a lower DPS than dagger nonetheless.

tried vs an elementalist with no prot nor toughness.

the dps is way lower.

6k dps?? So anything under 18k hp dies in 3 seconds to 111111? Sounds more like sustained burst than sustain damage….

Burtnik.5218:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Not only Rev’s damage got butchered (aside from not even buffing staff or just anything else in fact) it also got it’s survability neutered lol. Come on, I can get the AA nerf but because we were promised attention on other things. ANETs response seems to be to always to overnerf and overbuff things simultaneously… and each 3 kittening months

The logic is..we feel rev sword auto is too high so we nerf it and buff thief auto to even more ridiculous level bc logic. We want thief to spend init on defense.. like rev doesnt need energy for defense but again logic so its all okay.

Ok I’ve never played Rev but wasn’t this basically what the Rev did? I mean it makes sense for thief to get this buff because no one was picking us for raids. Now you can because we have the highest dps now. It’s now mandatory to bring a thief to Raid because bringing one rev will be enough for its boons. So all in all, nothing to whine about.

Question- do you fight back? XD I will trade my dagger damage for a non-bugged pistol whip, your stability and retaliation on dodge, or even just your 4s taunt reflect. Trade? Cuz thats what the trade-offs are. You get a far more passive class against a far more active class. Also whoever listed that DD/DA/CS build…. what? XD

Oh but to satisfy your “Thief are whiners” : OMG IM TOO SQUISHY I NEED DAMAGE.

Edit: Will trade dagger buffs for some burning, protection, regeneration, retaliation, and stability. And chill. And might. Lol. Will trade damage buffs to actually have access to sustainable boons/conditions.

As a Thief I agree that this AA dmg is wrong and disappointing. I was hoping my Sword AA would outshine my Dagger AA. Buff Sword to 6k, Nerf Dagger and buff Backstab instead. :P

Buff Condi too. Add burn and SB condi AA.

Evilek.5690:

I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?

Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.

Thief

Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7k

Revenant

Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!

really dude? when you play this game long enough you will find that you can’t compare two classes by damage alone. Even worse you are using AA. You havent factored in Revenants ability to avoid damage, or their healing ability compared to thief. Not even how the skills and traits work.

Can we please stop with this type of criticism.

Oi, yep you can really tell thieves are back in force.

What remains a mystery to me, is why they gave the biggest buff to Dagger, the weapon part of the set that has been most prominent and overwhelming in the thief base for years.

As a Sword thief, I’m happy that the clunky aftercasts are gone now. I am saddened by the fact that I’m left even further behind if I keep sticking to my Sword in comparison to Dagger thieves than before.

Evilek.5690:

I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?

Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.

Thief

Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7k

Revenant

Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!

Now compare base armor

Thieve’s ask for better targetting and sustain traist so they could survive mass Aoe spam.
They got better sustain via downing targets faster.

Evilek.5690:

I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?

Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.

Thief

Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7k

Revenant

Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!

Ele Scepter AA DPS: 800

Ritt, dagger’s where always meant to be thief’s top damaging weapon, i’m kind of confused why people think otherwise. your basically trading damage (daggers) for sustainability (s/d), you can’t have both on one set.

on another note, Are these changes worth trying?

Why is it that Thieves get a buff that only really helps them 1v1, the concept of team play suddenly disappears from everyone’s perception of spvp balance? We still don’t bring anything on par with other professions in terms of team utility.

My theory is because the people who complain the loudest are the ones that only truly care about being able to 1v1 everyone else, not actually caring about the strategy of team oriented play…

i’m a thief player. but i basically predicted this was going to happen. if you’ve been around long enough you’ll know that anet has a history and habit of overbuffing whatever is weakest to the point of ridiculous OPness, and then nerfing whatever was perceived to be OP to the point of being borderline unplayable. as much as thieves needed a boost, this is not what should have happened.

TheLastNobody.8319:

XxsdgxX.8109:

And wait for the biased cancerous players come defend thief.

Guarantee this will be the defense

“We’re squishy.”

this and its already happening
because the other professions sure as hell cant use berserker amulets

rhycochet.5268:

i’m a thief player. but i basically predicted this was going to happen. if you’ve been around long enough you’ll know that anet has a history and habit of overbuffing whatever is weakest to the point of ridiculous OPness, and then nerfing whatever was perceived to be OP to the point of being borderline unplayable. as much as thieves needed a boost, this is not what should have happened.

Agree.

The DS nerf and Cele removal for Ele is over the top too.

Rezzet.3614:

TheLastNobody.8319:

XxsdgxX.8109:

And wait for the biased cancerous players come defend thief.

Guarantee this will be the defense

“We’re squishy.”

this and its already happening
because the other professions sure as hell cant use berserker amulets

Thieves can’t and don’t use it either.

Highlie.7641:

Ritt, dagger’s where always meant to be thief’s top damaging weapon, i’m kind of confused why people think otherwise. your basically trading damage (daggers) for sustainability (s/d), you can’t have both on one set.

on another note, Are these changes worth trying?

Sure, but why give the more popular option a bigger buff to further the gap between the sets? I don’t mind D/P doing more damage with the burst (backstab), but now it’s also better for sustained damage and utility as well.

Most of Sword’s damage came from the AA, which too, now falls short. At least the evade from #3 should be more fluid now, but I doubt S/D’s “sustain” can compete much against the D/P damage and utility.

Tbh if Anet wanted people to use more S/D and maintain this big of damage difference, they should revert some nerfs to #3 and make #4 an actual useful skill than a niche you use if you have nothing else to chase a target (namely, managed your strike/return badly).

Will do more playtesting later after I get home from Uni.

Evilek.5690:

I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?

Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.

Thief

Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7k

Revenant

Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!

Hahaha, way to post biased crap my friend. In your picture, you are running Assassin’s signet and signet of Agility. Both up base dmg by a lot and cannot be run like that in any semi competitive environment.

If you want to do a real comparison: show logs, video and setups. Do this for all classes. Then think about the other options all classes have besides AA. Once you’ve done all that, explain why this is too much (even if your numbers are correct, which is doubtful). Do this without utilities and other stuff equipped so you don’t dilute the evidence, also remove all sigils for a pure baseline..

Tbh it doesn’t bother me too much. There’s a small minority of thief players that are scary good, and a large majority that are average at best in my purely anecdotal experience. Most of the ones I see couldn’t land an auto attack let alone a full chain and a few hits and they just use shortbow and run off. At the highest levels of play it could be a problem for squishy players, but 90% of us don’t play at the highest levels anyway.

At the dizzying heights of Ruby I’ll still see Thieves explode on DH traps or Necro marks.

No clue as to why they buffed auto attacks. There was no need.

Love it how OP intentionally uses berserker amulet and a build no thief would ever play in a serious environment to support his claim that thief is ‘so OP’ now, you the man.

With that being said, neither dagger nor staff needed any damage boost, but noone should ever complain about the sword fix, sword was literally unplayable pre-patch because of these terrible long aftercasts.