Guild Wars 2

Some of you guys have no idea how frustrating it was playing 50/50 matches the entire way up the ladder. Not that you don’t appreciate the competition, but it just felt wrong losing so (fairly) consistently in the lower ranks. The ladder was a total grind and meant absolutely nothing.

Well now it does mean something, and its great. There will be a lot of QQ these first few days from the gripping realization of Ruby players and below. It is, of course, the matchmakings fault that they are 0-10. You can’t necessarily blame them either, because they’re used to being matched with players around their own skill (which isn’t top tier), and being rewarded with the same general winrate as good players and consequently a rank not indicative of their skill level.

Good riddance. If you play a lot of games the first day as a sub-optimal player, you’re going to run into GOOD players who haven’t ranked up yet and get worked. And that is exactly how it should be.

I was a skeptic when I read the changes, but now I am seriously excited to play the rest of the season. Good job, A.Net!

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

Anomaly.7612:

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

He does bring up a good point with subpar players being able to reach legendary by playing only against other subpar players.

Keira Ferland.5619:

Anomaly.7612:

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

He does bring up a good point with subpar players being able to reach legendary by playing only against other subpar players.

Yeah, I agree with that, but as it stands now, it seems like the only way to get out of amber is to either be in a premade on TS, or just be a soloQ hero who can magically carry the team on their winged steeds. No thanks.

There’s nothing arrogant (or on the flip side, demeaning) about knowing your own limitations. I wasn’t playing until late tonight (after the hardcores were far clear of me I reckon), so I shot straight through Amber. 9-1 iirc, had a 500-0 game and another 500-5.

The level of play was quite bad initially, but I quickly started seeing names like Javasocute as I got to Emerald. I knew I was licked at that point and called it a night. I can’t play with the pros and I’m perfectly comfortable letting them get some distance before I continue.

There’s nothing wrong with that mindset, and I think the fact that the gamemode now allows it to exist should be applauded.

After one day of the new mode, you’re already willing to applaud it.
Call me cynical, but I’ll wait a number of months before I make an opinion.

Not sure how you managed those wins as I too, waited until tonight, and I’m doing nothing but losing, and I KNOW I’m not a bad player.

Anomaly.7612:

Keira Ferland.5619:

Anomaly.7612:

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

He does bring up a good point with subpar players being able to reach legendary by playing only against other subpar players.

Yeah, I agree with that, but as it stands now, it seems like the only way to get out of amber is to either be in a premade on TS, or just be a soloQ hero who can magically carry the team on their winged steeds. No thanks.

what? I got out of amber in 9 games as a solo que, the first 7 of which were played on mesmer to finish out the meta achievement.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Anomaly.7612:

Keira Ferland.5619:

Anomaly.7612:

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

He does bring up a good point with subpar players being able to reach legendary by playing only against other subpar players.

Yeah, I agree with that, but as it stands now, it seems like the only way to get out of amber is to either be in a premade on TS, or just be a soloQ hero who can magically carry the team on their winged steeds. No thanks.

what? I got out of amber in 9 games as a solo que, the first 7 of which were played on mesmer to finish out the meta achievement.

Just…..HOW? I’m getting terrible matches each time and it’s getting tiring.

Anomaly.7612:

Just…..HOW?

It’s pure luck. You have to brute-force your way to the next division.

sad to say that if you’re having 25 game losses in amber division right now, after brute forcing your way to higher divisions, you’re likely not going to have any easier of a time.

Darknicrofia.2604:

sad to say that if you’re having 25 game losses in amber division right now

last season it got easier at ~ diamond.

The new matchmaking is fine. If you lose 10 games in a row, maybe you belong in amber.

I can already hear people saying that you can’t have a huge impact. Sure, that’s why people are staying afk if someone on their team disconnects.

This forum is a toxic QQ wasteland.

If everyone always gets terrible team mates it stands to reason that everyone has been someone else’s terrible team mate, just something to ponder.

Valkyriez.6578:

If everyone always gets terrible team mates it stands to reason that everyone has been someone else’s terrible team mate, just something to ponder.

no. season 2 match making puts good players together in the same team, average players together in the same team.

good players together, of course they will rekt other not so good players.
average players together, of course they will get rekt by better players.

working as intended.

the better players will climb faster.

Had a bad experience in my first match. I usually solo.
The first thing that happened: one player startet to tell what we shall do. He called us scum in his first sentence. About 20s, when the team composed of all singel Q players, did´t work like an ESL team on teamspeak he wrote i am AFK enjoy loosing….(and Akitten).
It was the first time i looked into the reporting tool, but there was no point that would have realy fit this. There should be admins that give warnigns and temporary bans for players being overly rude to players they don´t know.

I learn from these pro players that bumrape me. In the old system I would never face them. It’s quite refreshing sometimes to see how it’s done, and after a few minutes of play you already start anticipating and it only hurts half as much. Hell it even becomes fun.

Some of these matches can actually be played to their full potential and I see the enemy lose a match just because of ONE bad split that lastst 5 seconds. Besides that, there were alo legenday players on my team not too shabby to share a few tips.

As Andy Dufresne would say: Are you busy living, or are you busy dieing?

The matchmaker is still broken and will remain broken until such time as anet balances team composition, and balances the classes (last balance patch was a slight improvement, but we’re at almost a year of a completely busted system). You can always tell which classes are in vogue, when you run into teams of 5 of the same class over, and over, and over again. Also, people are getting around the team thing by just putting 4 people in a group so they can get on teamspeak and beat on pugs. Seriously tilts the advantage. If you’re in a party, you should be matched with other people in parties. If you’re the same guild, you should be treated like a party. Simple.

Only positive thread on this entire page, seriously people, the game can’t possibly be THAT bad :P.

Siren.2843:

Only positive thread on this entire page, seriously people, the game can’t possibly be THAT bad :P.

Since HoT’s release the game has taken a turn straight off a cliff.

IT´s because it feels like devs abandoned the comunity … It feels like theres one dev working on balance for a day before the next three month patch. So it feels like a resouce problem made by ANet.

Admitted, they’re slow with balancing, but they did nuke bunker meta which noone liked. Game isn’t perfect, also admit that, but it’s far from bad. GW playerbase is lazy, I doubt if there’s patches for that. They always want everything spelled out for them with the minimum amount of effort.

Kinda stupid that people kitten at anet’s for people tanking ladder, people running fotm cheese and people using foul language. Example: Joe Necro joins a match with 2 other necro’s, is it really anet’s fault that Joe does not reroll another class just because the only thing he can play properly is reaper? You can’t patch lack of creativity/imagination.

I’ve been a rabid GW1 player, and from start to end you also had the same continuous whining about ‘game being dead’ and ‘balance sucks’. Seriously, who wants to hear people’s dumb opinions about how hard this game sucks in eotm chat? The silent ones are the ones actually playing.

I still wouldn’t mind a small balance patch though, really not at all

Well i like new matchmaking, when teamq we got decent oponents. When i did soloq was wrecked by better players and wrecking poor ones. Good job Anet. Q time is awesome as well.

Sardath.8524:

The new matchmaking is fine. If you lose 10 games in a row, maybe you belong in amber.

I can already hear people saying that you can’t have a huge impact. Sure, that’s why people are staying afk if someone on their team disconnects.

This forum is a toxic QQ wasteland.

What if you’re NOT bad player, but this season groups you up with bad players and force you to have horrible stats at start of season 3?

For example, I had rough start at previous season because I played stronghold with non-bunker alt and didn’t know you can opt out of it.
So I had overall 45% wins, but if we take strongholds out of picture, I had around 58% wins…yet it seems I’m destined to be in very subpar groups now (2-13 streak yesterday, with lots of DCs, afk-ers etc in my team)

There’s always a chance in soloQ that you get matched up with bad frenchie feeders that think Jalis rev’s are good. Worried about winrate? play with friends, you’ll get the best matches anyways. That or duoQ and carry dat kitten. I sometimes wonder what people find more important, stats/winrate or simply playing guild worz?

kittenters will sort themselves out in time. People that quit/afk don’t get good, they quit pvp because of no backbone, good riddance.

Sardath.8524:

This forum is a toxic QQ wasteland.

It’s not moderated, which is really bad, forum is supposed to be a knowledge base, not a wailing wall.

Celeras.4980:

Well now it does mean something, and its great

We don’t know yet how the matchmaking will feel 100 games into the season. Way too early to cheer, especially after taking a look at the past experience.

From my POV the new season still looks like a farm feast.

Nikola your performance last season has almost no bearing on this season. You’re rolling against high end players just starting out, so yes you will see more losses. The high end players will move out quick and you’ll be able to be more effective in your matches.

As someone who’s in emerald already and had a very streaky day, I can tell you that matchmaking is almost entirely pip based. In my last 3 matches of the day it included about 15 different people just mixed and matched, including Chaith, Phataram, and Mooncow and others. I’m sure if I had continued queing I still would have been facing them since at the time there were only a handful of emeralds.

The start of this season is like a marathon race if they didn’t seperste into pace groups and had everyone start at once. You’ll have the triathletes literally running into people trying to get up to the front.

As I’ve said in different posts I wish we could’ve had placement matches, the system is nice for high end players but very un fun for new ones :/

I dont know this feels harsh. People on my team seemed really into it but i was a 1 vs 2 on guardian and necro today and won them both easy. I dont know, I find it hard to believe this can be fun for either side.

To be honest, a league system should just reward players for playing and just put them at there proper level.

Aren’t reward tracks a reward for playing? A league system is for ranking and competition.

claytonmorby.3751:

Nikola your performance last season has almost no bearing on this season. You’re rolling against high end players just starting out, so yes you will see more losses. The high end players will move out quick and you’ll be able to be more effective in your matches.

Care to explain WHY am I rolling exclusively against high end palyers, and grouped with subpar ones?

Nikola.3841:

Care to explain WHY am I rolling exclusively against high end palyers, and grouped with subpar ones?

I can.

1. Step in the Matchmaking-Process: They get team member at about your own rating.
2. Step: Your team get’s paired with a team in the same division (inside a certain pip range). BUT the rating difference between both teams is irrelevant.

If you had a bad MMR in the last season, then now, you are playing with bad players. Whom you are facing is completely random since everyone is still at the start.

After some time, the old ‘top’ MMR players will have left the first divisions and therefore you should not be paired against them anymore.

The bad matches are purely a result of a not proper implementation of a league system.

Teutos.8620:

Nikola.3841:

Care to explain WHY am I rolling exclusively against high end palyers, and grouped with subpar ones?

I can.

1. Step in the Matchmaking-Process: They get team member at about your own rating.
2. Step: Your team get’s paired with a team in the same division (inside a certain pip range). BUT the rating difference between both teams is irrelevant.

If you had a bad MMR in the last season, then now, you are playing with bad players. Whom you are facing is completely random since everyone is still at the start.

After some time, the old ‘top’ MMR players will have left the first divisions and therefore you should not be paired against them anymore.

The bad matches are purely a result of a not proper implementation of a league system.

As I said, i had 45% win rate…care to explain why I only get 70-80% rank opponents, and not ones with 20-30%?

What Teutos said. Let me try to break it down theoretically.

Team 1 has Chaith and Toker (2 pro league players) que up for their first match of the season. They have extremely high MMR so they are teamed with similar people. However they are Amber 0 so that determines the team they are matched against.

Team 2 has Ned the Noob who is playing his 20th pvp match and wants to try ranked. This team 2 is formed with people similar to ned the noob.

Obviously Chaith and co win handily and move on.

Now there are 100s of high end players who will end up on team 1 and will quickly climb up. Once they are high enough team 1 will only face teams that are similar to them.

Team 2 has the same chance of fighting another team 1 until the high end players move up. So in some cases people in team 2s MMR rating might be stuck for a while.

Really sucky how it punishes one group of players, kinda the opposite of last season.

Also win rate is an average. The opponent you face might have only 47% but still be a much better player.

Siren.2843:

bad frenchie feeders that think Jalis rev’s are good.

Thats how i plan get to diamond (probably wont bother with legendary this season).. core shiro/jalis xdd

Its terrible but hey.. not my problem anet sux at balance.

claytonmorby.3751:

What Teutos said. Let me try to break it down theoretically.

Team 1 has Chaith and Toker (2 pro league players) que up for their first match of the season. They have extremely high MMR so they are teamed with similar people. However they are Amber 0 so that determines the team they are matched against.

Team 2 has Ned the Noob who is playing his 20th pvp match and wants to try ranked. This team 2 is formed with people similar to ned the noob.

Obviously Chaith and co win handily and move on.

Now there are 100s of high end players who will end up on team 1 and will quickly climb up. Once they are high enough team 1 will only face teams that are similar to them.

Team 2 has the same chance of fighting another team 1 until the high end players move up. So in some cases people in team 2s MMR rating might be stuck for a while.

Really sucky how it punishes one group of players, kinda the opposite of last season.

Also win rate is an average. The opponent you face might have only 47% but still be a much better player.

Question: How is you’re pre-season MMR calculated or do we all start equal?

SOLO QUEUE:
For example (we all start with the same MMR) -
1. Chaith is a pro-league player.
2. Chaith is 1st game of season and has no (base) MMR.
3. Chaith through bad luck is on the losing team (they’re really bad)
4. Chaith’s MMR is adjusted down
5. Chaith gets teamed with even worse players with lower MMR
6. Chaith loses again because even Chaith can’t carry that hard
7. Chaith is digging kitten.

OR…

Example (MMR is calculated pre-season) –
1. Chaith begins the Season before even playing a game with a high MMR
2. Chaith gets teamed with good players
3. Chaith is on the winning team
4. Chaith’s MMR is adjusted up
5. Chaith continues to get teamed with good players
6. Chaith will rise steadily until he is playing at a comfortably competitive level having had a fun-fest through the lower ranks.

Example: Chaith has a team (of 4 people because 5 player teams will only play 5 player teams).
1. Their team blitzes through with absolutely no challenge until they reach high level.
2. Pretty grindy and boring for top tier players… Chaith quits and takes up piano instead.

Is this how it works?
And is this system basically punishing all solo queue players?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

claytonmorby.3751:

What Teutos said. Let me try to break it down theoretically.

Team 1 has Chaith and Toker (2 pro league players) que up for their first match of the season. They have extremely high MMR so they are teamed with similar people. However they are Amber 0 so that determines the team they are matched against.

Team 2 has Ned the Noob who is playing his 20th pvp match and wants to try ranked. This team 2 is formed with people similar to ned the noob.

Obviously Chaith and co win handily and move on.

Now there are 100s of high end players who will end up on team 1 and will quickly climb up. Once they are high enough team 1 will only face teams that are similar to them.

Team 2 has the same chance of fighting another team 1 until the high end players move up. So in some cases people in team 2s MMR rating might be stuck for a while.

Really sucky how it punishes one group of players, kinda the opposite of last season.

Also win rate is an average. The opponent you face might have only 47% but still be a much better player.

Question: How is you’re pre-season MMR calculated or do we all start equal?

SOLO QUEUE:
For example (we all start with the same MMR) -
1. Chaith is a pro-league player.
2. Chaith is 1st game of season and has no (base) MMR.
3. Chaith through bad luck is on the losing team (they’re really bad)
4. Chaith’s MMR is adjusted down
5. Chaith gets teamed with even worse players with lower MMR
6. Chaith loses again because even Chaith can’t carry that hard
7. Chaith is digging hole.

OR…

Example (MMR is calculated pre-season) –
1. Chaith begins the Season before even playing a game with a high MMR
2. Chaith gets teamed with good players
3. Chaith is on the winning team
4. Chaith’s MMR is adjusted up
5. Chaith continues to get teamed with good players
6. Chaith will rise steadily until he is playing at a comfortably competitive level having had a fun-fest through the lower ranks.

Example: Chaith has a team (of 4 people because 5 player teams will only play 5 player teams).
1. Their team blitzes through with absolutely no challenge until they reach high level.
2. Pretty grindy and boring for top tier players… Chaith quits and takes up piano instead.

Is this how it works?
And is this system basically punishing good solo queue players?

Nikola.3841:

As I said, i had 45% win rate…care to explain why I only get 70-80% rank opponents, and not ones with 20-30%?

Sorry if I’m wrong here, but it seems you don’t understand the basics of how matchmaking and win rate interact.

Your MMR (match making rating) is a simple number that changes after every match. (Sidenote: The average player has a MMR of about 1.000)

Your win rate says absolutely nothing where you are ranked. It only says, how accurate your current MMR is.

The goal of the whole rating system in the last season (and currently in unranked) is to match you with and against players who are as skilled as you. Two teams as equal as possible should lead to a win rate of about 50%.

If you are a top player BUT the system thinks, you are just an average player, you should be able to proof the system wrong, win more matches than the system predicted you would (win rate >50%) therefore increasing your MMR further and throwing you against higher skilled players.

The league system screws with the MMR system because the league system is not implemented properly (like in ANY other successful competitive title) and therefore, your match quality is now suffering. Hopefully it will get better over the next few days (weeks) BUT I highly doubt it.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Question: How is you’re pre-season MMR calculated or do we all start equal?

The ranked MMR was not reset. You have the same MMR on which you ended up in the last season.
Careful: MMR, not league.

Example (MMR is calculated pre-season) –
1. Chaith begins the Season before even playing a game with a high MMR
2. Chaith gets teamed with good players
3. Chaith is on the winning team
4. Chaith’s MMR is adjusted up
5. Chaith continues to get teamed with good players
6. Chaith will rise steadily until he is playing at a comfortably competitive level having had a fun-fest through the lower ranks.

Pretty much that.

There are a few questions, I can’t answer yet. E.g. What happens if Chaith only plays three matches a day? Even he wins all of those, will he ever be able to get a good quality match throughout the season?

I haven’t noticed any difference from the previous system. First four games our teamed got hammered by 150-200 pts. From experience I know this steak wasn’t going to get any better so I just stopped playing.

I think it would depend on how fast other players climb. Again like you said, a top player would slowly make their way up, because eventually they wouldn’t have any competition in a division they don’t belong in

So i am propably screwed? Got paired with a good team (Guess MMR was good) but went against 4+1 coordinated top premade. One of us Akitten and we got shafted. So – MMR and pairings get wores loosing easier unless i can carry the team ? Lol indeed i carried the team after some losses …. This sucks.

Why are people even talking about MMR? It’s irrelevant in Season 2. The matchups are based on your league progress. If you have 0 pips in Amber, your match will be with and against other players in that vicinity.

That can include an 0-50 mouthbreather or a pro league all star who just hasn’t played yet.

I had no problems moving out of amber.. As I said in another post somewhere, I’m mainly a wvw player that pvp’s when bored. I think in amber I had a total of 4 loses and first couple of matches in emerald were blowouts lol Only problem I’ve ran into is being matched against some pro league players.. Not really a problem but those matches we lost.

Most of the loses I’ve had have been solo players vs groups of 3 or 4 teamed up
players. One thing I don’t like seeing is 3 of classes on a teams. Seems to be necro is the class to play as I had several matches where it was 3 of them on my team or the enemy team.. I actually had a match against 3 condi reapers and 2 condi mes and what a disaster that match was lol

Ahh well.. To me it seems better than last league but last league I made it to mid ruby and got tired of the grind for pips and wvw was calling me lol. Only in second tier of emerald so not sure if it is going to get better or worse just yet.. Too early to tell.

Hmm is MMR taken into account after leaguage progress? I thought the system will first select from league progress and then pair similar MMR at least if its possible?

As far as I’ve seen system makes new mmr (I think). I mean on the start we as premade had easy way without any competition (matches like 500-0, 500-10, 9-0 strike), but later on we had harder time and lost 2 matches (2 we won reaaaly close) and we made like 13-2, but idk what would be next, cause we stopped as premade. I went solo q and i got recking team once, other time both teams facerolled.

To sum up – I think that higher your winstreak is, harder opponents are and soloq mmr is independant from premade mmr. Idk about gathering better players in one team and worse players in other, needs some testing, but usually the metter is Legacy map (like 70% of pvp is played there), where little better team can reckt and snowball easely.

Celeras.4980:

Why are people even talking about MMR? It’s irrelevant in Season 2. The matchups are based on your league progress. If you have 0 pips in Amber, your match will be with and against other players in that vicinity.

That can include an 0-50 mouthbreather or a pro league all star who just hasn’t played yet.

Not unless is full premade vs full premade.
If the system has to create rosters, your teammates will be chosen based on your league position AND MMR, while your enemies will be chosen only based on your league system (they will be put together based on someone’s MMR).

“We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this comes from the homepage, and noone is mentioning neither win rate nor MMR anywhere.

I played again today, mostly soloQ now, and matches were pretty random. 500-200 loss because half the team gave up, 500-200 win because my team looked at the minimap and knew how to rotate, and a pretty devastating loss because I personally sucked that match and botched objectives. All factors are random, human, and not arenanet’s.

Loss streaks can be self-fulfilling prophecies at times. Grab a red bull or get some sleep.

Siren.2843:

“We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this comes from the homepage, and noone is mentioning neither win rate or MMR anywhere.

I played again today, mostly soloQ now, and matches were pretty random. 500-200 loss because half the team gave up, 500-200 win because my team looked at the minimap and knew how to rotate, and a pretty devastating loss because I personally sucked that match and botched objectives. All factors are random, human, and not arenanet’s.

“We’ll search for other players that fall within your pip range (which can extend outside of your division depending on where you’re currently placed) and pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own. We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level”

When they talk about “skill level” they mean MMR, as it is the only way they’ve to measure it.
At the start of the season, your own team is created somewhat around your own MMR, while the opposing team is formed around some enemy player MMR (so totally unrelated and random to you).

Teutos.8620:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Question: How is you’re pre-season MMR calculated or do we all start equal?

The ranked MMR was not reset. You have the same MMR on which you ended up in the last season.
Careful: MMR, not league.

Example (MMR is calculated pre-season) –
1. Chaith begins the Season before even playing a game with a high MMR
2. Chaith gets teamed with good players
3. Chaith is on the winning team
4. Chaith’s MMR is adjusted up
5. Chaith continues to get teamed with good players
6. Chaith will rise steadily until he is playing at a comfortably competitive level having had a fun-fest through the lower ranks.

Pretty much that.

There are a few questions, I can’t answer yet. E.g. What happens if Chaith only plays three matches a day? Even he wins all of those, will he ever be able to get a good quality match throughout the season?

Thanks Teutos – Seems then (at least for Solo Queue players) that the system makes keeping a High MMR once obtained easier and gaining a high MMR if starting out very difficult.

By the system already knowing who the high MMR players are before the season starts and always putting them together on the same teams, it was only ever going to be a complete blood bath, whilst also artificially driving down the MMR of a lot of average to above average players, sending them into teams of even worse players, through multiple losses in deliberately un-balanced matches.

So, for a good player with low MMR because they didn’t play last season or played very casually it is actually detrimental for them to be playing at the moment because their MMR is likely to only go down further, and the further it goes down, the worse team mates you will get and the harder it will be to climb.

Vargamonth.2047:

When they talk about “skill level” they mean MMR, as it is the only way they’ve to measure it.
At the start of the season, your own team is created somewhat around your own MMR, while the opposing team is formed around some enemy player MMR (so totally unrelated and random to you).

Ah, this sure helps me understand better, thank you for that.

Lol my MMR must suck balls, but it’s kind of tricky. Half of the matches I play I’m not even sober (weekends :P), and when I log on I’m not preoccupied with stuff like ratings and MMR, I just want to play. MMR in my case is a pretty good indicator of how much I had to drink last month, and it’s a good indicator of how many troll builds I played/tried.