Guild Wars 2

Anomaly – I have seen you play. You are a good player. I was matched with you on several games early on. We won a few. We also lost a few to opposing teams that had better compositional player structure (in 1 instance someone on other team "rerolled after seeing our team’s composition – great). You got lucky, and kept moving up (I presume). I am on a downward death spiral. Yet we won a few games together. That means, at least at some point – you and I and our teammates were “skilled.” However, I have now lost 65 games in a row. I don’t think I am at the bottom because all of a sudden, I lost all my skill that I had when I played with you. I got tot the bottom because of bad luck and the new calcs for mmr/pip placement. So yah, I am not sure how to reconcile all of this “skilled v. unskilled” players and their appropriate “placement,” but I don’t see how starting me out at the bottom next season will help me claw my way to the top again through a morass of noobs, newbies and afkers/dcers/“I threw a skill, we lost mid, I quit” players.

Somnium Luna.6294:

I am amazed by one trait of the people – Blame everything else, and never find blame inside you.

One saying goes – You wont grow up until you learn to take responsibility for your deeds.

I watched a lot of screenshots above, whinning about lose streak and blaming teammates. I payed attention to their build bellow – and i see P/P thief, with full signet utility and simmilar “pro-builds” qq about MAtchmaking.

You complain about higher division players playing agains you? Did it cross your mind that you belong to amber or emerald right now, until good players reach V and VI. And even later, your skills are just not ready yet for Ruby or Diamond, so it is reason why you cannot achieve 50 or more percent win rate, and get stomped by good players. Its harsh truth, but you are not that good, and not entitled to be rubz, diamond, legend, and to constantly rise in divisions.

IF you are staling it means that you are right where you need to be. If you keep losing it means it is too high division for you. If you are on a win streak it means you need to climb higher until you match people with simmilar skill.
Last season i climbed to mid Diamond, solo q. I kept winning one, lose one. All games were close. People with simmilar skill. SO i didnt push it to Legendary, i wasnt entitled to it. I just enjoyed games i had, wich were engaging. I improved my skills, playing vs LEgends and ESL players sometimes, and beeing stomped.
This season i easily climbed to mid III in just few hours, winning 80 percent of games. And currently i am stalling. Why? Cause i currentlz belong there.

I do not agree. I do not believe I am in the lowest division possible, with brand new players, and on a 65 game losing streak because I suck that bad. I just refuse to believe it (and yes, you can all say whatever). I have been pvping a long time. I have watched the “best players in the world.” I may not be legendary etc. But I do not deserve a 65 game losing streak. It has affected my mmr. No matter what I do now, that 65 game losing streak is affecting my mmr. No matter “who carries me to ruby,” no matter how many games I play to finally claw my way back to the 50/50 win/lose ruby rank, etc. I don’t know why you would think that the ONLY people at the bottom are those who are new or who suck. Is there no situation you can envision where people might be getting badly “punished” from a broken mmr calculation/pip placement other than that they suck (where they belong!) or they are new (they will learn!). Please.

Eater of Peeps,

I am thinking that what has happened is that the people who play solo these days just don’t have the foundational strategic knowledge of Conquest in GW2: map rotations, reading the map and “knowing” what you should be doing now, prediction of what happens next after certain events in a match.

I think they used to, and so the people you would be teamed up with as a solo could just “do it” without being told. And without TS communication.

Today (I suspect) most of those knowledgeable former solo players have joined teams with voice comms. Why? Because ArenaNet made no secret that that was they way they were moving with structured PvP, and they refused to recreate SoloQ.

SO (and I am in this situation as well), you end up as a solo player with three or four other people who just don’t know what to do, and they quickly GIVE UP if their team is not rolling.

You can’t win with a team that is standing around waiting for the match to end, hoping for better luck with the next pull of the slot machine.

Certain players are very talented with powerful builds and they can, in some cases, carry a team with a few weak players. But they can’t do it when their team is hiding in corners.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I got rank 12 by doing pvp in RA – solo que – totally random – the hard way. NO ts.

lol you meant rank 12 gladiator?

I thought you meant rank 12 HA/Tombs for a sec.

lol RA is not even real pvp

Darknicrofia.2604:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I got rank 12 by doing pvp in RA – solo que – totally random – the hard way. NO ts.

lol you meant rank 12 gladiator?

I thought you meant rank 12 HA/Tombs for a sec.

lol RA is not even real pvp

Actually to get rank 12 in Random Arenas (RA) in GW1 required much more games (probably like 50000 matches), time and investment. RA with purely random teams when enemy teams were often premade (using syncing to get a premade team into random). I was only rank 9 in RA, always solo queue as well.

But back to topic:
The match making does seem to be broken and the meta as well. Current “burst first to win” meta leads easily to snowballing in matches and come backs are extremely rare. For example I have had 56-500 loss at worst. My last game was 502-6 win (zero deaths in our team). I was druid in both matches and tried my best in both. I think there is something fundamentally wrong about the match making and meta because utter blow outs like this seem to be very common.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I got rank 12 by doing pvp in RA – solo que – totally random – the hard way. NO ts.

lol you meant rank 12 gladiator?

I thought you meant rank 12 HA/Tombs for a sec.

lol RA is not even real pvp

LOL Danika – I also got r 12 HoH/HA, max rank alliance pvp, max Codex, max GvG, max FA/JQ, and R 10 TA in addition to r 12 RA. RA was DEFINITELY the hardest, least gimmicky, most random, most skilled based pvp I ever had to do period (in GW). Go try it out. Play it legit. 100% RA solo q. Tho bear in mind when I did it, there were no buffs or advancements for successive wins.

So w/e. I guess your implication is that I suck. But I don’t think so. Im not here to brag. Im here to establish that surely w. all this experience at pvp, including dragon rank in gw2, almost diamond last season, I am not so BAD that I should be sustaining what is now a 69 game losing streak. Please.

Somnium Luna.6294:

I am amazed by one trait of the people – Blame everything else, and never find blame inside you.

One saying goes – You wont grow up until you learn to take responsibility for your deeds.

I watched a lot of screenshots above, whinning about lose streak and blaming teammates. I payed attention to their build bellow – and i see P/P thief, with full signet utility and simmilar “pro-builds” qq about MAtchmaking.

You complain about higher division players playing agains you? Did it cross your mind that you belong to amber or emerald right now, until good players reach V and VI. And even later, your skills are just not ready yet for Ruby or Diamond, so it is reason why you cannot achieve 50 or more percent win rate, and get stomped by good players. Its harsh truth, but you are not that good, and not entitled to be rubz, diamond, legend, and to constantly rise in divisions.

IF you are staling it means that you are right where you need to be. If you keep losing it means it is too high division for you. If you are on a win streak it means you need to climb higher until you match people with simmilar skill.
Last season i climbed to mid Diamond, solo q. I kept winning one, lose one. All games were close. People with simmilar skill. SO i didnt push it to Legendary, i wasnt entitled to it. I just enjoyed games i had, wich were engaging. I improved my skills, playing vs LEgends and ESL players sometimes, and beeing stomped.
This season i easily climbed to mid III in just few hours, winning 80 percent of games. And currently i am stalling. Why? Cause i currentlz belong there.

Cut the lecturing! This isn’t a f’n life lesson here. The system has failed, get that through your head.

And…HO….what a surprise! 80% of games you say? OF COURSE you support this then.
Like I said: The system has failed.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I do not agree. I do not believe I am in the lowest division possible, with brand new players, and on a 65 game losing streak because I suck that bad. I just refuse to believe it (and yes, you can all say whatever). I have been pvping a long time. I have watched the “best players in the world.” I may not be legendary etc. But I do not deserve a 65 game losing streak. It has affected my mmr. No matter what I do now, that 65 game losing streak is affecting my mmr. No matter “who carries me to ruby,” no matter how many games I play to finally claw my way back to the 50/50 win/lose ruby rank, etc. I don’t know why you would think that the ONLY people at the bottom are those who are new or who suck. Is there no situation you can envision where people might be getting badly “punished” from a broken mmr calculation/pip placement other than that they suck (where they belong!) or they are new (they will learn!). Please.

No offense, but I doubt I could lose 65 games in a row while AFK.

Loving the new matchmaking.

They could always make your rank based on your personal play and not whether or not your team won the match. That way no one would be carried, and no one would be sunk by a crap team.

Link.1049:

They could always make your rank based on your personal play and not whether or not your team won the match. That way no one would be carried, and no one would be sunk by a crap team.

And just how would the computer know your personal play? It cannot watch you do good strategy. And personal score means little. If you tag enough enemies who then die, you get a lot of points; if you bunker a point and hold it all game, you don’t get lots of points.

Silly suggestion. Everyone knows personal points are basically worthless as performance indicators.

The only proposed change that would make any sense is resetting MMR at the start of the season. But realistically that wouldn’t fix what most people are complaining about.

Now that I have a solid amount of games under my belt, I just wanted to reaffirm how fantastic the system is. I shot up quickly to Ruby as I should, and now that I’m closing in on Diamond the games are getting much more competitive. Had a heartbreaker 5xx-499 loss on Foefire last night. So tense.

It really is so rewarding having matchups indicative of your league progress, even if the ELO hell crowd will never see it that way.

Anomaly.7612:

Keira Ferland.5619:

Anomaly.7612:

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

He does bring up a good point with subpar players being able to reach legendary by playing only against other subpar players.

Yeah, I agree with that, but as it stands now, it seems like the only way to get out of amber is to either be in a premade on TS, or just be a soloQ hero who can magically carry the team on their winged steeds. No thanks.

Cant be said better.

Reseting your MMR at the beginning of the season would allow Ppl that “got gud” not to be held back by the sins of past season

Link.1049:

They could always make your rank based on your personal play and not whether or not your team won the match. That way no one would be carried, and no one would be sunk by a crap team.

Well: How can you validate how good is someone in a team?

His rank? Useless. Top score/points in a match? Useless. Least deaths/most kills? Useless.

So… all what counts is, HOW good you are as a team. And since you don’t queue for 1v1 (where your personal play decides lose/win), that’s all what matters.

The bad thing is, that ’cause of the reward system a lot of never-played-ranked-pvp join. People that have no basic understanding of the maps, common tactics, common builds, so on. And that leads to really, really bad teams.

Just as an example I had like 3 matches ago: People were unable to cap and hold their points (they played the PvP like CS:GO…) and when you told them, that they kitten should just stay in the circle and not chase with 4 one thief, because this maybe makes winning easier, you get mocked as an idiot, because you went to def the lord, that was rushed, and fight off 2, 3 others for the rest of the game: “Haha, great tactic, now we lost! Noob!”. And this was one of the better matches…

P.S.: That’s what you get in Sapphire btw.

What do you expect?! Everyone wants that backpack… I was diamond season 1, today I got diamond again, solo queue, and try to get legendary to…
Season 1 was unfair, all the kittens were carried, I mean all to ruby, lots of abuse.. now you can rarely abuse, like with 5 man pre-made, and ts..
Season 2 is unfair to, like it’s this way, legendary players get to play with diamond players..who wins, guess?! Diamond players get to play with ruby players..who wins?! And so on… Good players climb very fast, they are in one team, even in solo queue…
So how should you think?! I think like this: No many how times I get farmed, was farmed for 5 days in a row, I get up, I knew those players are gone, so I was the next big player, best player in that division…so after that I got 28 pips in ruby, and today I’ve won again one time, and diamond… Now I will be farmed again for some days, but after that I will progress, knowing that the best diamond players are at legendary now.

So if you are Emerald, you have to wait way more than me, before you can progress…
And don’t come to me with that I’m a good player stuck in emerald/sapphire..what the kitten?! From ruby you can call your self something, like " I’m average", and that kid logic “come 1vs1”, my mind is blown away.. so many players told me that, after I won..

People! Wake up! PvP is strategy not pure muscle, but who is still in emerald/sapphire doesn’t understand, really!

Thread approved.

#Evanhelpus

Yeah new matchmaking is seriously fantastic.

Every other game ends by someone going /sit afk after the first 1-2 mins.

Yeah it’s annoying…. kind of understandable (because most games have obvious outcomes early on)….

….but THIS is the environment the new matchmaking has bred.

SERIOUSLY FANTASTIC.

I started to Rank pvp again A few days ago , I stuggled to start with to re-grease my Bars on the bike but soon enough im doing good still in Amber tier 3 , 3 wins starting tier 4 only done 10-12 odd matches 6/4 win/loss ratio so im gaining ground thats good.

thats not bad at all but my first 4 games where just a breeze untill i came across Premades one running 4 DH’s and a Reaper , the other with 3 reapers and 1 support druid + 1 CC/condi druid.

the DH fight was a wash out due to poor Team comp and people gave up , though fighting that many Dh’s on one node was just one of them Kitten it moments .
the other with the reapers and druids was a fair fight of attrition but in the end i was going it Solo this time and not enough people bring team support or the team support for some reason is capping far?

so far , the two games i mentioned above have been the only times i’ve seen someone go AKF .

now you peeps that do go AFK i’ll tell you this it Wreaks sportsmanship Die or fight like a Respectable person/Gentleman or just DC entirely and save us the pain of loosing pips ( i am going to be hating the higher teirs when i get there if this kind of person keeps trying to push past limits he can’t Surpass.)

I really enjoy the new matchmaking. I have a lot of tough and funny fights.

I don’t know where these “AFK after first push” people are, but I reckon they’re with all the other tilted players blaming everybody but themselves. Never seen it myself, even in landslide matches.

Maybe at 400+ points sure, but never at the beginning of a game unless its a genuine DC. Which happens.

Ive seen them on the opposing teams on my 2nd account, currently end of smaragd.

Never on my main account, except one player, but even he just said he would go afk and kept on playing Not really good playing (fighting off point etc.) but he kept on playing.

But then, ever since hitting that wall of really really bad players in ruby t1, Ive avoided soloqueueing as much as possible, instead queueing with people I was at least on ts with. It wasnt always perfect matches, and some players really do make stupid decisions (running mid when it was said to play sides for example), but on teamspeak you can at least yell at them and get them to fix it. ^^

Btw, not leaving base when opposing team has 450+ points and own team below 350 I dont consider going afk. That ship has sailed and there is no use in getting farmed one more time.

I dont understand why people dont get smart and stop rushing mid when opposing teamcomp consists of more than two necros or even DHs. Especially on forest and legacy its just plain stupid to do a 1-4 split against such a teamcomp if you dont have the necessary shut down (engi and/or, mesmer) and support (a tempest and maybe a SnR pewpew druid).
You can see that teamcomp 1minute and roughly 20 seconds (depending on loading screen) before match starts. Its enough time to realize that the necro-stacked or DH-stacked team has a high advantage on midfight. Enough time to discuss the sides splits, who goes where, what to do after capping sides.

There really is absolutely no excuse for running to mid, loosing the fight… then ranting in teamchat and going afk. But Ive seen quite a few people on lower tiers over the past few days doing exactly that… well, didnt see the teamchat rant, but most of the time it spilled into mapchat at one point.

Btw, queueing with 5 man premade with not optimal teamcomp, I lost my fair share of midfights. But we recovered most of the time by at least one pulling out of midfight and going either far or close. And that is something you dont need to coordinate on teamspeak. Sure its easier with teamspeak, but if you are a good player, you know when fight is definitely lost and when its better to disengage to side points.

So, those dieing mid and then ranting and going afk after first push arent really as good as they think they are. But I noticed a lot of them feel entitled to being called a carrier, and a lot of them are solely blaming teammates for being bad and loosing first midfight.

Solo Q with this new matchmaking is nothing short of AIDS. 90% of my games are determined before the match even starts. I think Arenanet needs some better mathematicians on their team to help them with these garbage algorithms.

After having encountered some forum heroes in pvp, I actually dont think anymore anet is that far off in most cases. Im not calling names, but quite a handful of those shouting that they are mis-rated and constantly have to carry games in sapphire/ruby t1 Ive seen rushing mid alone with 3-4 enemies standing on point, just because rest of team decided to play far and they didnt read chat/minimap and missed that.

Others Ive seen abandoning close even though it was clear that my team’s mesmer would portal back (portal lieing in hearing range).

And what Ive seen most is players stubbornly focusing their own target, instead of yielding to a maybe slightly not so good target but at least assured kill.

It kinda opened my eyes seeing those kinds of things. And made me rather doubt some of you guys stubbornly stating its all matchmakings fault, and not your own. Im sorry.

If you are stating that 90% of your matches are pre-determined, then maybe its rather your attitude then the matchmaker. Too many heroes, not enough followers will loose you the game. So, can you be a follower even when the leader makes a stupid decision? Just carry it and try to make the best of it? Instead of stubbornly doing what you think is best? Havent seen lots of those tbh.

So, what I think is… sure there are outliers in matchmaking, and Im sorry for those that get the short end of the stick. But the big pool of players is exactly where they belong – mmr wise. Not pip wise, but season end is still far away after all.

What I think is… not mmr algo has to be adjusted, but rather a lot of pvp players have to adjust their attitude – especially in soloqueue. Maybe you actually really are a good solo player, and you win lots of 1v1. But that doesnt make you a good teamplayer… it just means that you have the potential to be a huge asset to your team, if you get the necessary skills for playing with a team and stop playing against it by constantly trying to correct “mistakes” or only doing your own thing.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Anomaly – I have seen you play. You are a good player. I was matched with you on several games early on. We won a few. We also lost a few to opposing teams that had better compositional player structure (in 1 instance someone on other team "rerolled after seeing our team’s composition – great). You got lucky, and kept moving up (I presume). I am on a downward death spiral. Yet we won a few games together. That means, at least at some point – you and I and our teammates were “skilled.” However, I have now lost 65 games in a row. I don’t think I am at the bottom because all of a sudden, I lost all my skill that I had when I played with you. I got tot the bottom because of bad luck and the new calcs for mmr/pip placement. So yah, I am not sure how to reconcile all of this “skilled v. unskilled” players and their appropriate “placement,” but I don’t see how starting me out at the bottom next season will help me claw my way to the top again through a morass of noobs, newbies and afkers/dcers/“I threw a skill, we lost mid, I quit” players.

Senpai noticed me! \0/ That really sucks, I’m sorry to hear about that. I’m currently in mid Ruby on a 50% win/loss. I also remember playing with and against you. You’re a good player, and this system is obviously not calculating your skill correctly as you’re easily Ruby/Diamnond material. Hell, I was wondering why I stopped seeing you in my matches. =\

Whatever Anet does next season, there’s really no way possible that it’d be worse than this system. Ruby finally starts to feel pretty even. I rarely have matches that are total blowouts in either direction. The only way I got out of Emerald and Sapphire was to find other people that I knew were good players and que together. Now, I don’t think that’s a good solution at all. We shouldn’t HAVE to group together to get anything done. I feel like that’s Anet’s solution though.

Doing HoT map content? Better group.
Wanna raid? Better get a guild and group.
Wanna PvP? Better get a premade on TS.

I just don’t think that’s a good solution, but I’m sure some “pro” players might think so. I watched Helseth’s carrying video, and I can see where he’s coming from on some points, but I thought it was really funny how he just scoffed at the PvP slot machine picture calling it, “the most noobiest thing ever,” yet he didn’t even finish his video. He just abruptly ends it and says, “I’ll make the real video later. This is just a taste.” So until the great “Lord” blesses us plebs with a real video, I guess carrying matches will be a total mystery.

Yasi.9065:

After having encountered some forum heroes in pvp, I actually dont think anymore anet is that far off in most cases. Im not calling names, but quite a handful of those shouting that they are mis-rated and constantly have to carry games in sapphire/ruby t1 Ive seen rushing mid alone with 3-4 enemies standing on point, just because rest of team decided to play far and they didnt read chat/minimap and missed that.

Others Ive seen abandoning close even though it was clear that my team’s mesmer would portal back (portal lieing in hearing range).

And what Ive seen most is players stubbornly focusing their own target, instead of yielding to a maybe slightly not so good target but at least assured kill.

It kinda opened my eyes seeing those kinds of things. And made me rather doubt some of you guys stubbornly stating its all matchmakings fault, and not your own. Im sorry.

If you are stating that 90% of your matches are pre-determined, then maybe its rather your attitude then the matchmaker. Too many heroes, not enough followers will loose you the game. So, can you be a follower even when the leader makes a stupid decision? Just carry it and try to make the best of it? Instead of stubbornly doing what you think is best? Havent seen lots of those tbh.

So, what I think is… sure there are outliers in matchmaking, and Im sorry for those that get the short end of the stick. But the big pool of players is exactly where they belong – mmr wise. Not pip wise, but season end is still far away after all.

What I think is… not mmr algo has to be adjusted, but rather a lot of pvp players have to adjust their attitude – especially in soloqueue. Maybe you actually really are a good solo player, and you win lots of 1v1. But that doesnt make you a good teamplayer… it just means that you have the potential to be a huge asset to your team, if you get the necessary skills for playing with a team and stop playing against it by constantly trying to correct “mistakes” or only doing your own thing.

I do agree with a lot of what you said. I’d like to add that I think it’s important to watch other good players play. Whether that’s streams/video/etc., as the only way to get better is to emulate those that already are.

I’m also generally curious and think it’d help if we talked about following the strat that the failing leader is giving. I see you touched on this in your post a bit already, and it could really help others to talk more about that. What do you think is best in that situation of a leader leading the team into death traps? Should we just follow into that situation and try to carry it, or break off and do what we think is best?

Well it really depends – as pretty much everything in gw2

I mean, if its something like he is running mid the 3rd time in a row to just die there, then no. Dont follow. Go sides and ignore him. Try to make up his scoring up the enemy team through rallybotting by using map mechanics like beasties, lord, communes.

But if for example two players decide to go far at beginning of legacy… make it into a 3-2 split… either by you going far with those two, or if that fifth player in your grp gets it and moves far with them, then fall back to close.

Or if one player for example rushes lord in the beginning of the match, either go help him, or make sure that at least one point is not capped by enemy team. Depending on what rest of team decides to try.

The solution to that is always try to make the best out of it. Always keep the big picture in mind. They rush lord in the beginning? Keeping enemy from tri-capping usually results in your own team coming up ahead of this. Of course you will have to defend lord later, so watching out for that is part of the big picture

Ive seen proplayers do seemingly stupid things in soloqueue, but if you look then at the bigger picture you realize, that that was actually kittening smart.
I dont remember which streamer it was, but Ive seen one just “blocking” spawn gates, keeping 2 enemies from rushing lord and that was the reason his own team managed to defend lord, actually turning around the game.
Most players would have tried to rush from mid back to their own lord to defend. Or would have tried to tri-cap and hoped for team to defend.

Yeah fantastic match making when you play three games against a 4 ppl group with no grouped players on your side and you lose by ~100 points.

So much skill and -2 pips.

Anomaly.7612:

Whatever Anet does next season, there’s really no way possible that it’d be worse than this system. Ruby finally starts to feel pretty even. I rarely have matches that are total blowouts in either direction. The only way I got out of Emerald and Sapphire was to find other people that I knew were good players and que together. Now, I don’t think that’s a good solution at all. We shouldn’t HAVE to group together to get anything done. I feel like that’s Anet’s solution though.

So you were carried out of Emerald because you couldn’t do it on your own, and now you’re unable to progress in Ruby with 50% w/l? It would seem to me that the ladder is doing EXACTLY what it was designed to do.

You are likely a Ruby caliber player who should have ended the season of that rank. You grouped to accelerate your progress and then hit a wall.

This is how functioning ladders work.

When you try to do two thing at the same time, you got a problem.

Ranking people on GRINDING Wins to get a reward is bad.

The system should RANK people on their SKILL. The skill should be determined on game you win versus WHO. Like it was in 2013-2014.

Then give a GRINDING reward track for those who want REWARD.

Mixing both will always get problems.

The new MM seems good for the 55%+ MMR players in soloq (or team with a better MMR). For the rest, it’s bad.

Each division got their low MMR player, so even if you CLIMB, you will get stuck in the BAD team. This is UNFAIR. Grinding divisions to get put in soloq with BAD players, is BAD and unfair.

For those LOW MMR, going versus high MMR (and not LOW one), make it HARDER to let them work their MMR higher…

THIS IS TERRIBAD.

I think people (mostly bad players) need to get over the fact that teammates are chosen by MMR. Its not like bad teammates would magically go away if it was chosen completely randomly. The people who want this kind of thing are just hoping to be carried, at the expense of causing good players to stay at lower ranks for longer. And, consequently, beat up on bad players for longer. Nobody wants that.

Quite frankly this is only even a talking point because bad players can’t fall in Amber/Emerald etc. They grind out their games by losing a ton, and get a rank higher than their skill level. Then complain about it… which is ironic because the checkpoints only exist to give them a way to make a little progress in the first place.

Celeras.4980:

I think people (mostly bad players) need to get over the fact that teammates are chosen by MMR. Its not like bad teammates would magically go away if it was chosen completely randomly. The people who want this kind of thing are just hoping to be carried, at the expense of causing good players to stay at lower ranks for longer. And, consequently, beat up on bad players for longer. Nobody wants that.

Quite frankly this is only even a talking point because bad players can’t fall in Amber/Emerald etc. They grind out their games by losing a ton, and get a rank higher than their skill level. Then complain about it… which is ironic because the checkpoints only exist to give them a way to make a little progress in the first place.

NO, people DO NOT need to “get over it”. ONCE AGAIN deniers are not paying attention to what people are trying to say. All you guys do is OBFUSCATE THE PROBLEM.

It’s not about individuals complaining about bad teammates, it’s about the system that’s DESIGNED to hand them over each time you lose a game.

Obfuscate the problem? What is the problem, exactly? The system is designed to give you teammates at your own skill level. The benefits of this are:

- Good players don’t linger in the lower ranks and beat up on bad players by getting random teammates in the beginning of the season.
- Your ladder rank is a meaningful indication of skill. You will shoot up easily if you are better than the majority of players at your pip range.
- Match quality increases at higher ranks.

The “cons”:
- Bad players will have a difficult time digging themselves out of their hole because their losses do not send them down in Amber/Emerald. This causes most of these ranks to have a fairly large range (proportionately) of skill in them because your pip range will generally be determined by how many games you played. A sapphire player can either be a “true” sapphire, or an amber quality player with 100s of games.
- Bad players will, unfortunately, have unbalanced matchups at the beginning of the season while players better than them climb. It’s a PvP ladder. Working as intended.

If you want to fix these “cons”, how is random teammates the answer? Bad players will still have unbalanced matchups and still have difficulty climbing, they’ll just be crossing their fingers to get carried by a lucky teammate draw. Which they’ll be able to do for longer, because good players will be stuck in lower ranks for longer than they currently are (and consequently spend more time beating up on bad players).

Ya’ll can shout from the rooftops all you want, but the point remains: there is not a single “pro” to randomizing teammates within a pip range. As long as you cannot lose progress in Amber/Emerald/Sapphire, the problem will always exist because bad players climb sheerly on volume.

And lets be a real: a PvP ladder is not about the lower 50% of the community. Sorry.

No, random teammates are not a solution. Anet would need to write a new, player-only based algorithm for matching instead of using wins as indication on skill. There’s enough threads about why this is simply impossible to do. Remember, spvp is not chess with a vast but still limited amount of moves possible.

Making it into a random based teamselection is really just tossing the coin.

Im not that happy with season2 mechanics. Those winstreaks helped a LOT of bad players to ride the lucktrain to ruby, just to get stuck there. Now we get them in matches while they slowly adjust their mmr down.
But they dont loose pips for that anymore… they have hit rock bottom – aka ruby hell – aka ruby t1.
And when their mmr is adjusted, they still queue. Meaning… they get balled together in worst teams in existence. As it is atm, if I queue late at night with my main account… I get on those teams. Because there are literally not more than 10 players queueing in my pip range at one time… if Im lucky and dont have to wait 15+ minutes for pop.
Whereas those with only minimal better mmr get put on the higher mmr team.

So, as a veteran I should now carry those winstreak luckers with barely a tenth amount of games played compared to me to victories over and over and over.

Whereas… and here’s the thing… my second account (barely played in pvp) gets put on the better team and I only have to not kitten up to win.

This is simply wrong. Im the same person. My second account is even limited because of not having hot. Id probably make it quite easily to legendary on my second account if I bought hot, whereas on my main account Im apparently not better than ruby or max. diamond?
It is just wrong, Im the same person, with the same skills. But depending on which account I log Im considered a good player…. or a bad one.
——————————————
“I have to disagree with you on the sentiment that the new system is better.

The system in season1 should have been fixed, not replaced. It wasnt that bad, just too casual friendly.

Now we have NEW problems, even MORE severe.

How to fix season1 mechanics? Quite easy…. decrease range of mmr for own team, increase allowed mmr distance to other team.

If higher mmr team wins, they get 1 pip. If lower mmr team wins, they get 2 pips. If its a close loss, winner gets 1 pip and mmr is adjusted accordingly, for looser they loose 1 pip, but mmr isnt as severly down adjusted as if it was a blowout.

Looser looses 1 pip in general, 2 pips with higher mmr against lower if distance > X.

You know, make the divisions and pips a representation of mmr gained, more or less.

/edit: Oh and of course, divisions can be lost, as such failsafes should not be needed anymore. This and increasing range of mmr between teams should “fix” the mmr tanking.

The problem was 50/50 winchance. If you tilt that and give more pips in return for winning that… and take away ultimate division failsafe… well, if somebody REALLY wants to tank mmr for those matches… let him.

/edit2: Totally forgot… make divisions 1+2 into training wheels divisions for everybody that has NOT reached sapphire or ruby on last season."
——————————————
I posted this on reddit.

This is how they should have fixed it… not by removing mmr but by expanding the possibilities and leaving pip range out of it.

Celeras.4980:

Obfuscate the problem? What is the problem, exactly? The system is designed to give you teammates at your own skill level. The benefits of this are:

- Good players don’t linger in the lower ranks and beat up on bad players by getting random teammates in the beginning of the season.
- Your ladder rank is a meaningful indication of skill. You will shoot up easily if you are better than the majority of players at your pip range.
- Match quality increases at higher ranks.

The “cons”:
- Bad players will have a difficult time digging themselves out of their hole because their losses do not send them down in Amber/Emerald. This causes most of these ranks to have a fairly large range (proportionately) of skill in them because your pip range will generally be determined by how many games you played. A sapphire player can either be a “true” sapphire, or an amber quality player with 100s of games.
- Bad players will, unfortunately, have unbalanced matchups at the beginning of the season while players better than them climb. It’s a PvP ladder. Working as intended.

If you want to fix these “cons”, how is random teammates the answer? Bad players will still have unbalanced matchups and still have difficulty climbing, they’ll just be crossing their fingers to get carried by a lucky teammate draw. Which they’ll be able to do for longer, because good players will be stuck in lower ranks for longer than they currently are (and consequently spend more time beating up on bad players).

Ya’ll can shout from the rooftops all you want, but the point remains: there is not a single “pro” to randomizing teammates within a pip range. As long as you cannot lose progress in Amber/Emerald/Sapphire, the problem will always exist because bad players climb sheerly on volume.

And lets be a real: a PvP ladder is not about the lower 50% of the community. Sorry.

Absolute NONSENSE.

What is the problem?! Try reading the hundreds and hundreds of posts on the season matchmaking and league system! THERE’S your problem. There’s the fact that players are QUITTING. Even the DEVELOPERS admitted that there was a problem, that it IS NOT working “as intended”. (Whatever that means)

You keep looking at division loss, FORGET division loss. All division loss will do with this particular matchmaking system is segregate the so-called “good” players and “bad” players even further making the problem worse. The “league” system and its tiers is just for cosmetics, the real machinery is the matchmaking system, which is a FAILURE.

Third, your little quip about the community. If there is no community, THERE IS NO LADDER.

Try harder, deniers.

Celeras.4980:

Obfuscate the problem? What is the problem, exactly? The system is designed to give you teammates at your own skill level. The benefits of this are:

- Good players don’t linger in the lower ranks and beat up on bad players by getting random teammates in the beginning of the season.
- Your ladder rank is a meaningful indication of skill. You will shoot up easily if you are better than the majority of players at your pip range.
- Match quality increases at higher ranks.

That assumes that MMR = good players that win on their own which is just not true. I mean how would they fare if they were given the team of the lower MMR guy? Would they still keep that golden MMR or it would tarnish over time from having to carry hard so often as opposed to play with ppl they do not have to worry as much about? This isn’t a show of skill at that point so much as a polarization of the MMR that should be tested not manufactured.

As for matches being of better quality at higher level it might be true up to a point but for many that mean nothing because they will simply never get there and the matches are atrocious at lower levels. So, in the end, and overall is it worth it? Not sure at all that thousands should suffers so a handful can have even better matches.

The “cons”:
- Bad players will have a difficult time digging themselves out of their hole because their losses do not send them down in Amber/Emerald. This causes most of these ranks to have a fairly large range (proportionately) of skill in them because your pip range will generally be determined by how many games you played. A sapphire player can either be a “true” sapphire, or an amber quality player with 100s of games.
- Bad players will, unfortunately, have unbalanced matchups at the beginning of the season while players better than them climb. It’s a PvP ladder. Working as intended.

The problem is it is not just the bad players that will have a hard difficulty but anyone with low or average MMR which new players are entitled to despite being nowhere near an experienced player skill. On the other spectrum you have all these MMR cheesers who have abused match manipulation and now enjoy ideal conditions on their trip to glory while their friends, who did not, have to carry hard all the time for the same goal despite being of similar or maybe better actual skill.

The good players, not just the bads, will also have unbalanced matches but it will be favorable for their progression which I guess make it bearable (sarcasm included for free). The high MMR players who are assumed by the system to be good will get ideal conditions that will greatly help confirm what the MMR says and the opposite is also true. A self-fulfilling prophecy, which is pretty bad if you ask me, that isnt really a great way to convince ppl you are skillful if you ask me. If that is what is working as intended it is pretty sad.

If you want to fix these “cons”, how is random teammates the answer? Bad players will still have unbalanced matchups and still have difficulty climbing, they’ll just be crossing their fingers to get carried by a lucky teammate draw. Which they’ll be able to do for longer, because good players will be stuck in lower ranks for longer than they currently are (and consequently spend more time beating up on bad players).

Random players is the answer because nobody would be shown special favor or special disadvantages. If you are better you will, all things being equal, rise faster than others and leave behind those who wont always have you to help them. To help this, removing the impossibility to loose pips would help solve the getting carried higher than should problem.

Beside, let’s be honest one moment, the good players were given a free ride this season and it really changed nothing about ppl getting ride to ruby because of the safe guards in the lower divisions. So the fear good players would stick longer to help less skillful players is shall we say dubious. Specially if the safe guards were removed.

Ya’ll can shout from the rooftops all you want, but the point remains: there is not a single “pro” to randomizing teammates within a pip range. As long as you cannot lose progress in Amber/Emerald/Sapphire, the problem will always exist because bad players climb sheerly on volume.

I just gave you some no? and I actually see very little and legitimate obstacle to randomization in what ppl have said so far. What I hear is sounding more like players expecting special treatments.

And lets be a real: a PvP ladder is not about the lower 50% of the community. Sorry.

I agree. The problem is, it would take a system that put all players under the same conditions to begin with and ANET not pushing that ladder to be played by all like they do atm. You cant really try to sell an elitist product to everybody. This doesn’t make any sense.

What you seem to want is more like a close competition among the pvp elite. The question is, why don’t they do just that? Team registration, play, advance and see who win down the line and get the title. Problem solved.

The MMR range for teammates is such a non issue it is hilarious to think people are still complaining about it. Teammates one game are consistently enemies the next. Stomp someone I feel is sub-par one game, win with them as a teammate one game later. It’s gravy.

Low MMR players need to come to terms with the reason that they always seem to lose. Sure, you might be in the hole and always losing to better teams. All that means is that there are still better teams at your pip range. Which means you don’t deserve to go up in ranking, and trying to grind your way through it will exaserbate your issues.

In the past two days I’ve had a 500-500 loss, a 500-499 loss, and a 500-496 win. Almost a month after I made this thread, and I still feel the matchmaking is doing its job spendidly.

Celeras.4980:

The MMR range for teammates is such a non issue it is hilarious to think people are still complaining about it. Teammates one game are consistently enemies the next. Stomp someone I feel is sub-par one game, win with them as a teammate one game later. It’s gravy.

Low MMR players need to come to terms with the reason that they always seem to lose. Sure, you might be in the hole and always losing to better teams. All that means is that there are still better teams at your pip range. Which means you don’t deserve to go up in ranking, and trying to grind your way through it will exaserbate your issues.

In the past two days I’ve had a 500-500 loss, a 500-499 loss, and a 500-496 win. Almost a month after I made this thread, and I still feel the matchmaking is doing its job spendidly.

Can I get some argumentation here instead of just your empty opinions? You were given a lot of arguments over several threads as to why you might want to consider others perspective but no matter what you simply dismiss it without ever tackling what was said to you.

Again, all I read from you is “I smoked all my life and never got cancer therefore cigarette doesn’t give cancer”. If only you could be happy about not having cancer instead of just kittening ppl who got it.

Nothing I said was an opinion other than the affirmation in the last sentence. I stated my own matchups and what it means if you’re stuck. If you’re looking to nitpick, you’ll have to pick a different post other than a bullet-point of inargueable facts.

Celeras.4980:

Nothing I said was an opinion. I stated my own matchups and what it means if you’re stuck. If you’re looking to nitpick, you’ll have to pick a different post other than a bullet-point of inargueable facts.

So how is that not your opinion, lol?? Like how are opinions made?? Facts are stuff like High MMR vs Low MMR. Opinion are what you believe :

o·pin·ion

??piny?n/

noun

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

“I’m writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance”

synonyms:belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view,viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance,position, perspective, persuasion,standpoint; More

the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.

“the changing climate of opinion”

an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.

“I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved”

My matchup results are not an opinion.
The teammates I am matched with is not an opinion.
The fact that you lost because the other team was better is not an opinion.
The fact that you don’t deserve to climb rating if your opponent’s are generally better than you is not an opinion.

If you’re trying to argue that they are I suggest you read your own definition again.

Celeras.4980:

My matchup results are not an opinion.
The teammates I am matched with is not an opinion.
The fact that you lost because the other team was better is not an opinion.
The fact that you don’t deserve to climb rating if your opponent’s are generally better than you is not an opinion.

If you’re trying to argue that they are I suggest you read your own definition again.

True those are facts, but your interpretation of the facts is an opinion. Notice opinions can also be based on facts. Just like two scientist can interpret the same facts differently.

Celeras.4980:

snip.

Going to have to agree with what this guy has to say. If you’re a good player you certainly are able to rise above and power through the issues the system throws at you.

I didn’t play season 1 at all (means I was given the base average mmr in Amber) and I was able to easily soloq on warrior to diamond, where I swapped to engineer and now am 1 tier from legend all by only soloq. This is while averaging 3 matches played per day so it’s not like I just grind games to get here.

Now that was a bit of a brag, but it does illustrate that you can certainly go through the league without mooching mmr or grouping up even if you’re playing the “worst” class for the majority of it.

For me it comes down to seriously evaluating your play. I’ve played since launch but I know that after and during the games I have to look at what I can do to maximize the chance of winning. And sometimes I make mistakes and am the cause for the team loss. No matter if your teammates are total idiots you can always take something out of the match imo and that’s how you improve.

Now is the system perfect? No. I’d much rather have a system that generated a symbol based on mmr and then matched teams (yours and opponents) based on mmr and displayed the average for each team after the game. And then have the rewards based on winning during the league season and have it independent of pips.

Celeras.4980:

My matchup results are not an opinion.
The teammates I am matched with is not an opinion.
The fact that you lost because the other team was better is not an opinion.
The fact that you don’t deserve to climb rating if your opponent’s are generally better than you is not an opinion.

If you’re trying to argue that they are I suggest you read your own definition again.

Your match results are fact, but the conclusions you draw out of them are not.

Me loosing because the other team was stronger is a fact but it is not a fact that the opposing team have stronger individuals then “I” nor that my teammates are my equal in all cases (which is basically what ppl complain about btw in case you had missed that the first 1k times).

Therefore, it is certainly your opinion that all players complaining about the result they get are wrong since they might in fact be loosing because of all that is outside of them and “only” represent 80% of the games (a fact not an opinion).

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Me loosing because the other team was stronger is a fact but it is not a fact that the opposing team have stronger individuals then “I” nor that my teammates are my equal in all cases (which is basically what ppl complain about btw in case you had missed that the first 1k times).

Yes, I know. Everybody is the best player on their team. They themselves are better than the other team too, and its their teammates are the ones holding them down.

Ready for the irony? Thats their opinion. And it’s one that isn’t supported by the matchmaking algorithm or have any basis in fact. Yet you want me to argue it, in the same breath as criticizing me for giving opinions?

Celeras.4980:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Me loosing because the other team was stronger is a fact but it is not a fact that the opposing team have stronger individuals then “I” nor that my teammates are my equal in all cases (which is basically what ppl complain about btw in case you had missed that the first 1k times).

Yes, I know. Everybody is the best player on their team. They themselves are better than the other team too, and its their teammates are the ones holding them down.

Ready for the irony? Thats their opinion. And it’s one that isn’t supported by the matchmaking algorithm or have any basis in fact. Yet you want me to argue it, in the same breath as criticizing me for giving opinions?

And here we are back to belittleland instead of logic land.

Yes, I was expecting you to argue it because ppl have argued about the algorithm having problems (ruby being the danger zone as it is) and MMR being a questionable measure of individual skill since birthed from teams which are 80% not you and almost never the same in the context of the current algorithm that make it easier to get a better MMR if it’s already high and worse if it’s bad.

I’ve said it yesterday but I’ll repeat it again, the matches I have to win when fighting in ruby are FAR harder to win (and poor ones at that) than when I play vs all diamonds because I pair with one diamond. The difference? The team I have that doesn’t need to be carried anywhere as hard or at all. The opponents are, all things being equal better since of higher caliber yet I get win streaks that I could not when stuck in ruby soloq?

… but the system has no flaw and I’m supposed to believe my 20% of power should trump the remaining 80% because BS logic?

My results are also facts and as you can see lead me to different conclusions.

You’re confused because what you just said has absolutely nothing to do with your previous post. The matches in Ruby are more difficult because there is no way to go down prior to that point. Therefore the beginning of the rank has a ton of unworthy players who grinded through losses.

It has nothing to do with matchmaking, and changing it to “random” wouldnt change what you are complaining about. The only solution to that would be removing the checkpoints and allowing losers to continually fall backwards so their ladder placement is an accurate reflection of where they belong.