Guild Wars 2

Is the new PVP system really a fail?

We saw a lot of complain after introducing the new pvp system. But are those really justified?

The new pvp system, brought a lot players in pvp, some better, some worse.
But still it revived it quite a bit.
If you play in team some people say, it is easy to win and to progress.
This new system provide the team fights and encourage people to play in team.

The fact that solo player have it harder is simply because they are more people playing in team, [edit] and it it is intended.
PVP is the same as before just we meet more team’s players.
You can not win every time. Even the best of the best lose.

The Goal bring more people to pvp, encourage team fight, and giving people harder win is reached.
This is were the new system didn’t really fail.

Possible Improvement?
The system is not that bad as all say, it just needs some improvement may be.
I already proposed some times ago ; include the possibility of Voice channel. The pvp game will reach a different, solo players can easier communicate. It is not a must to use it.
But if you are somehow serious and want to win as solo. Perhaps you will compromise and use it.

Overall i guess nobody want easy boring win all the time. I am sure you have all have a “fist of fury” ??? and want to win all matches.
But it is actually a good reviving trip to progress in the Division.

from my point of view
I play solo, i have a high mmr, it is hard: I still like it, i still have fun, even if I rage while playing.

I was under the illusion that the new pvp system was going actually measure skill and allow tiers to face off.

That isn’t the case at all. This is the same old grind system with a fancy UI. It rewards amount to time played rather than quality of play. Being in one tier or another is nothing but a status of how much you’ve played, because you can still be placed with lower tiers.

Going up and down the tiers is only a result of lucky matchmaking. You’re either put on an great team as a soloq or put with people that don’t know what they are doing. That is not okay. That is a waste of time.

Anet has created a system stacked against players and they expect players to beat their statistical odds in order to progress. That is not a good system.

It is true that the base is the same; Since our MMR+ some other datas control the match making.

but it is nothing about Grind.
This feeling Grind: is just because you want to achiev something and you force yourself to play maybe in overdose, because you feel oppressed by the time.

Play your pvp, have your fun as always.

About the Legendary, we are still talking about Legendary. Those are things that are not easy to get.
Nobody want to see everybody with legendaries, as it if were common items.

Being in one tier or another is nothing but a status of how much you’ve played, because you can still be placed with lower tiers.

Going up and down the tiers is only a result of lucky matchmaking.

not true: You can play 1000 matches and still be in Div 1 since you lack the skill.

And about what you call luck :
i could not find it but there is a Video that shows that luck is just a long term skill statistic.

Seyiwaji.4082:

It is true that the base is the same; Since our MMR+ some other datas control the match making.

but it is nothing about Grind.
This feeling Grind: is just because you want to achiev something and you force yourself to play maybe in overdose, because you feel oppressed by the time.

Play your pvp, have your fun as always.

About the Legendary, we are still talking about Legendary. Those are things that are not easy to get.
Nobody want to see everybody with legendaries, as it if were common items.

Being in one tier or another is nothing but a status of how much you’ve played, because you can still be placed with lower tiers.

Going up and down the tiers is only a result of lucky matchmaking.

not true: You can play 1000 matches and still be in Div 1 since you lack the skill.

And about what you call luck :
i could not find it but there is a Video that shows that luck is just a long term skill statistic.

Naw I doubt it would take 100 games for anyone to eventually be carried through 15 wins or even less when receiving extra pips for a win.

Yhey need to remove the 50% win rate part of the algorithm – stop matching people of vastly different skill levels.

I like the new PvP system….but there’s one thing, that bother me….the lost of pips from division 2 on….

I mean…It would be ok for me, if you could get D1 and D2 without losing ranks and pips….und D3 and D4 you lose pips and for 5+ you lose ranks and pips…but….you can go on and play the whole day and still stay in D2-Rank 1, cause you win/lose 50%….

ANet said, that Players (even not soo good ones or mor casaual ones) will be able to get their backpack, maybe not within the first season….but you can get it….but how many seasons do u need, if you don’t be able to go past D2?

My idea would be the following:
Make an “EXP”-system
- So…if you win within D1, you will get 100% (1 pip), if you lose, you get 50% of 1 pip….
- In D2, you will get 100% (1 pip), if you lose, you get 5% of 1 pip….
- For D3 and D4: If you lose with 350+ you won’t lose anything, if you lose with <350 you lose 50%, of 1 pip and if you lose with <200, you lose 1 pip ….if you win, you still get 1 pip….
- For D5 it’s the same as D3/D4 but 450+ points for losing nothing, 350-450 for losing 50% of a pip and <350 for 1 pip.
- In D6 there’s only win = pip and lose = -1 pip

In that case, players will be able to go through theit divisions, even if they lose, but when it was a close and good game….and there’s not so much frustration if you play the whole day for nearly nothing….

dank.3680:

Naw I doubt it would take 100 games for anyone to eventually be carried through 15 wins or even less when receiving extra pips for a win.

it was an example, that skill are required, even more in div 2, and 3 you need skill to progress.

Seyiwaji.4082:

dank.3680:

Naw I doubt it would take 100 games for anyone to eventually be carried through 15 wins or even less when receiving extra pips for a win.

it was an example, that skill are required, even more in div 2, and 3 you need skill to progress.

“it was an example, that skill are required, even more in div 2, and 3 you need skill a pre-made to progress.”

Fixed that for you.

Sorry but you can have all the skill in the world, when the system flags you to lose, specially in solo queue, have incredibly high chances to lose. We have been seeing that happening by matching solo/duo queuers with full pre-mades being some of them made of pro players. That’s the system denying and hammering you down. Would be skill if Anet had reset the MMR at the very least or remove the 50% win ratio. It is incredibly frustrating to have those sort of matches and lose 1 or even 2 pips and see your progress lost.

Seyiwaji.4082:

dank.3680:

Naw I doubt it would take 100 games for anyone to eventually be carried through 15 wins or even less when receiving extra pips for a win.

it was an example, that skill are required, even more in div 2, and 3 you need skill to progress.

I know what it was, my point was your example as stated was a fail. Because you cannot fail to progress past div 1.. Higher, then sure you could be stuck in div2 forever for example.

It is a fail. It’s identical to what we’d been doing before with just some new feature to grind for. They didn’t put effort into designing matchmaking around the new system, they just tried to shove this new system into the old model and called it done.

At this point, I’d love for a really in depth dev post to explain the design decisions behind this system because I really don’t understand how they thought this was a good idea.

RedDeadFred.1256:

It is a fail. It’s identical to what we’d been doing before with just some new feature to grind for. They didn’t put effort into designing matchmaking around the new system, they just tried to shove this new system into the old model and called it done.

At this point, I’d love for a really in depth dev post to explain the design decisions behind this system because I really don’t understand how they thought this was a good idea.

Good luck getting a grab on a dev who’d bother answering… as far as I’m concerned, the worst the game became, the less dev we saw

The system measures individual skill but indirectly over success of your group.

Sure, u have to be a good player to progress even in premade group play.

But be carefeul judging the people who just have a yellow I or a green II after some time.

It could be that this poor player lacks a group (whatever reasons) and is still a very very good player but utterly can´t progress.

His progress is unlikely because it contains luck to 80% (which players do i get) and individual skill 20%. If u duoq its 60% luck and 40% individual skill.

If u form a premade with players from which u know they are skilled, it´s 0% luck and 100% individual skill.

So do u want rely on luck then to win? Its plain gambling casino-wise

What is better / who will win in the long run?

The outstanding player with 20% individual skill and 80% luck

or the outstanding player with 100% individual skill / 0% luck (cause of premade)

Man, people talk about premades like they’re some godlike unbeatable creatures.

Yes, good people can make a premade, but so can bad people. Even if they’re good players, that doesn’t necessary mean they’re using VoIP or communicating in an outstanding way.

It seems to me that some people just want to have something to blame they’re losses on => “i played good, the rest of my team is kitten, they were premade and that means all of their 5 players were good”. It may sometimes be the case, but definitely not always.

On the other hand, there are some valid complaints because statistically speaking, you will find more communication and skill in a premade. I think there’s an easy fix for this:

Solo and duo queuers should be prioritized to encounter a combination of solo/duo/triple and should never encounter a premade, unless they have a 3 or 4 player party in their team.

Tripe queuers should be able to encounter any combination

4 and 5 premades should encounter only queues that contain at least a 3 or 4 player parties and should be prioritized to encounter 5 player premades.

The system is flawed.

The biggest problem is Team q and Solo q matched together. Anet even failed to copy paste the LoL system correctly. Solo q will always be demanded way more then Team q because of people’s nature. But it’s insane that soloq’ers have to face premades.

The system we have now, promotes unhealthy gameplay.

It’s either you tank your rating to move forward.
You form a premade and farm soloqers to move forward.

I mean yeah, it’s okay to say, “form a premade yourself”, “go unraked”, “go hotjoin”. But in reality, when achievements are done, items gained, PvEr’s who now step into PvP will be gone, the same as with WvWvW season 1. Alot of Soloqrs won’t bother to form a premade, they will just quit doing PvP, or shrug and quit the game. And what the actual gain Anet ? You basically reward 10 % of players with those leagues and punish other 90 %.

Where is a fun part ? Your game will never ever be e-sport.

From this point, it’s either you separate solo q, with solo and duo quers, team q with 5 man premades. All who want 4 man que, 3 man que, get 1-2 more players or play duos.

I didn’t realise, it was possible to exploit the system.
I’ll review my review.
There’s a huge problem there. Anet please hurry. Time is counted

Anyone else like me that really doesn’t care about what division it says there in? Reason I don’t really care is because I’m still get games against the high end teams… this means my MMR is probably decent and I’m satisfied with that. I enjoy playing the high level teams even with a pug group, hell the other day we had a pug that got matched against Team Faded and we were actually doing quite well against then was even ahead of them at one point but they portal lord rushed and we lost, our fault we should have seen it coming.