Guild Wars 2

Hey everyone its cruuk ur unfriendly far point troll

Just giving an update on what far point theives will be doing post patch

so after looking at shadow trap they changed the trigger return to a on use return

this means that ur able to leave it on far point and the far point guy has 2 decisions
1 to stay and let us 5v4 mid (btw there is no timer on shadow trap unless its triggerd/ or used)
2 to head to mid giving a free decap and the theif is able to come right back to mid

now i know some people will say they will have a 4v5 for however long it takes me to decap and come back to mid but if u think about it the time it takes him to get to mid while its a 5v4 in our favor evens that statement out

so it basically turns into a 5v5 at mid with thier point decaped this is going to be crucial for every team and i feel it will be the meta

just for whoever is wondering im going to be running

0/30/30/10/0 with
2/8/12
4/5/11
6
my wep set with be d/p (air/force) and either s/d (energy/bloodlust) or sb (fire)

The utilities will be signet of malice / assassin signet / shadow step / and shadow trap

the rune set i will be running will be scholar 6/6 and a soldiers ammy with beserker jewel / and beserker ammy agasint condi teams

PS: i linked a home node thief build also below

Are u sure those patch notes are real?

swinsk.6410:

Are u sure those patch notes are real?

I think so. The leaked notes were live before the official blog post, and the leaked notes correctly named “torment.”

The leaked notes are probably outdated and partially unfinished, though.

I’m a fan of x/30/30/x/x myself for my thief. My only problem with it is if an ele/ranger is on point, you can harass them like crazy but often it becomes a draw in terms of the fight. Maybe I can wear them down, maybe they wear me down. With all the stealth though you can’t cap the point and if you do and they return they just neut it again. If the fight stays prolonged they wind up capping the point anyway because everytime you stealth they get a capture tick.

This usually results in an endless 1v1. If you win great, but it’s usually temporary in the sense as soon as they return the point gets neutralized. The S/D offset helps against these classes but with only 2 signets your ini regen isn’t very good to allow prolonged S/D use.

I know your good at what you do, but how do you make this work if you’re fighting on a point they’ve capped? If it isn’t capped you hold it neutral but that makes the rest of the fight a 4v4 for the rest of the map. Just curious how you overcome this.

i agree with you that the ele and ranger isnt the best fight for us but u have to understand that i dont ever go far point if they are there with the point

and it doesnt matter as much as winning the point as it is holding the nute for as long as possible if im holding 1 at there point with a nute its an even 4v4 mid and we have the advantage

sure u can say they can backcap us too but we ignore taht and win mid because of it which is a 4v3

basically every class except an ele i can either 1v1 or hold nuet against forever or until they bring 1 back to help

this is where i think my strat shines if they send 1 back to help i can then kill the guy helping as he goes back to mid while the other has to sit on point and watch if he gets off the point i just go decap and start it all over again

if its an ele tho i normally just decap and leave once he gets the point capped again in which case i go back into help mid 5v4 and just watch him for decaps again

Its going to be especially helpful once i get the instant port back to their point so if the ele does follow me mid i can pop back decap and get back to mid 5v5

Guess I’ll watch out to see how this develops on your stream if you’re still streaming, last time I checked you were running S/P + D/P.
Did you do any math on the heal rate for using SoM with daggers?

As far as testing goes Interested in seeing if I can spin some S/P play again.

ya that was an old far point build i ran but as far as Signet of malice u use it for the might / iniative the extra heals are just a plus since its on a 12 sec cooldown u can use it offensively or defensivly

S/p is getting a buff on patch also where u will attack faster after u stun theere wont be a big cap anymore hopefully so i could see it coming back altho the nerf to the break stun is huge for sword

also I remember that video Zone u did beat us but to be fair it was a 2v2 either way props on warrior skillz i love ur build

official.4658:

also I remember that video Zone u did beat us but to be fair it was a 2v2 either way props on warrior skillz i love ur build

Or or, you could just dodge through the trap and it doesn’t activate.

You can destroy it to warp regardless.

Also understand that with any far point strat with any class ele/dps gaurd/thief/engi/ or whatever your main focus is on winning mid you ignore home until u win mid if you whipe mid you regroup home and hit it again while i either have 1 or 2 thier point this strat will not work leaving someone on home.

If they cross to our home in the beginning tho we just adjust and wipe them with the neccessary amount and return to the strat

also at any point in the game if they send 4 to our point our guardian comes off mid and i the thief watch mid and far so we have a even 4v4 with guard

It’s probably too good to be true. While I can see it working, people will start catching on and just activate the trap if they see it, so you won’t be able to tele back at will from mid point…It’s not like portal where the guy just has to wait for you.

Once they activate the trap, you have roughly kitten duration to activate it and tele back before it just automatically goes on CD…

If it’s true, it will probably be limited to 1200 range and as buggy as shadow return.

^That as well.

I am still dreading how the pathing of shadowsteps + teleports are now since they “fixed” it…It’s costing me so many deaths since I can’t escape as precisely anymore…

i see ur point but thankfully im a perma stealth thief so i can just put it somwhere he wont hit it accidently and it wont be 1200 that doesnt make sense at all

I don’t know man, it might just be that…if it was unlimited range then Mesmer portal users would be complaining because their portal is on a 90s CD while our “portal” would be on a 45 second CD. Even though the tradeoff would be that the real portal can portal your party as well.

Backpoint thief? :o

I wouldn’t be surprised how much of a fail it would be since shadowstep (the utility) is already screwed up since the fix.

lol cruuk, you know I love you. I’m just trying to get video hits for the $$$$$’s.

And yes, new patch will give thieves a reliable self-Portal. They will mimic Mesmers in that aspect. Huge utility buff for thieves.

Ya im thinking of making a backpoint thief as well mabye the evasion thief specs will prevail at home point playing the mesmer role

Heres the Back point thief build im working on if anyone is interestd

20/20/0/30/0
2/3
3/10
5/9/10

This is a triple trap build for post patch

the role will be to lay down all 3 traps which you will be able to leave on the point and go mid once someone triggers the shadow trap u will port back with 10 might stacks stleath and fury they will then trigger the other 2 stun and ambush trap which u with then relay down 2 more of the same which is a total of 5 traps procd which will give them 25 vuln. u can then pop thieves guild and you will have 4 thieves out to destroy anyone who decides to fight you

runes will be ogre 6/6
soldier ammy with beserker jewel
s/p(rage/force) or s/d and sb(fire) as weapon sets
utilities wil be shadow trap/ambush trap/tripwire or needle trap
and thieves guild for elite

You will dominate anything and everything that comes to fight u 1v1

Your far point isn’t scary (to me anyway) but that backpoint sounds nasty. Thieves guild is enough to beat almost anything anyway. The extra thieves will be a nightmare.

Triple trap off the bat? Well fortunately Ambush triggers whether they dodge on it or not so there is no issue with that. That and Soldier S/P can definitely duel.
I like how it sounds, but tripwire feels like the odd-man. That and an ele or engi can nuke the ambush thief before it can do much.

Fortunately if I get it right you can place Shadow center, place Ambush off center, and if you see your Ambush thief pop up, Destroy shadow to warp and you’ll be there regardless and can force movement till they hit the tripwire. If leaked is correct though you’re going to be in a shoddy situation if you have to force the warp. You’d have to replant the trap immediately so you have a stunbreaker.

Feels like that build is in a very delicate spot if it works imo. Last time I tried to run triple traps I found Ambush getting nuked out of play frequently. Would also be harder with no stun break on inf strike.

ya exactly the thief pop will tell me whats going to happen and the port is right after it followd by the trip wire on the far point of the node so its port back theives guild daze replace traps and gg

and the ele and engi wont stand a chance with the dazes/scorp wires/tripwire/ and s/p stuns

Actually in hind sight you’re not in that bad a place. Headshot/BP off the bat stops them from preventing you setting up another Shadow trap.
You’re going to be forced off point if a RAO ranger pops in.

im hoping i can lock them down before they can do anything or even get onto the node

It’s always hard though, thief traps are jokes since it’s a small rectangular box. If it was anything like necro marks or ranger traps then it’d be much more efficient. Right now they could very well cap a point all while avoiding the traps since they don’t take up much surface area…

ya that would be true but the shadow trap is a on use / or trigger trap now after patch so that doesnt matter if they dont trigger it and they will most likely trigger the other traps on point while fighting me

I still don’t get why you don’t think someone would just dodgeroll the point

dodgeroll doesnt work on shadow trap / ambush it only works on tripwire and that will be hidden somewhere on the point they wont notice

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I still don’t get why you don’t think someone would just dodgeroll the point

Ambush trap triggers regardless of whether they dodge or not. At best a dodge cancels 1 of his utils.
So post-patch the only traps that can really be stopped from activating are needle and tripwire. Imo he can get away with Ambush or possible get away with trip (but I feel of all traps it has the weakest synergy with S/P and the stability S/P has to contend with) but ambush+ trip will be iffy.

only a noob would cancel a trip wire with a pistol whip ur better off auto attacking then pistol whiping after the idea is to lock down anyone before they can aoe ur thieves down

the only reason its so strong is because u can redrop traps immediatly after they pop one

not to mention the buff to the vuln 2 trait in deadly strikes which should keep 25 vuln on ppl while u destroy them with cc’s

You can update on the results tommorow, but for the purpose I’d feel more comfortable without trip.

Was there anything in the notes that indicated Shadow Trap would act as a true Teleport instead of a buggy Shadow Step?

If so, this is my favorite change ever. =)
Otherwise Shadow Trap would still be useless because it would “teleport” you a few inches from where you’re standing if you’re lucky…

Because we thieves need better mobility. Just sayn’. (Sarcastically at that -.-)

I’ve run a similar build on treb for a very long period of time. The idea is good, but you’re VERY easy to disengage on and once your guild and double ambush are down you’ll probably lose the fight. If you can’t double-trap, the build is very weak. Also, we don’t know if dodge rolling the traps will avoid the vuln, which is a key part of the setup.

Another issue is that without thieves guild, if you lose home point for whatever reason, you will have HUGE issues taking it back, which will force a 2v1 rotation to your backpoint which will lose you mid because you lose the ability to double-up on ambush and tripwire. Soldiers + withdraw just plain isn’t enough sustain against a lot of far-point specs.

Another weakness is that without the vuln stacks, your damage output is going to be significantly lower than it currently is, which means you’re very dependent on landing your whips to have any form of pressure. Since inf strike and return are being weakened substantially, you’ll also end up being very susceptible to condi pressure as well as burst combos. The ambush npcs more than make up for this, when they’re up, but when they’re not its a really dicey proposition.

official.4658:

Heres the Back point thief build im working on if anyone is interestd

20/20/0/30/0
2/3
3/10
5/9/10

This is a triple trap build for post patch

the role will be to lay down all 3 traps which you will be able to leave on the point and go mid once someone triggers the shadow trap u will port back with 10 might stacks stleath and fury they will then trigger the other 2 stun and ambush trap which u with then relay down 2 more of the same which is a total of 5 traps procd which will give them 25 vuln. u can then pop thieves guild and you will have 4 thieves out to destroy anyone who decides to fight you

runes will be ogre 6/6
soldier ammy with beserker jewel
s/p(rage/force) sb(fire) as weapon sets
utilities wil be hide in shadows/shadow trap/ambush trap/tripwire or needle trap
and thieves guild for elite

You will dominate anything and everything that comes to fight u 1v1

Cool, you will be able to port-back and hold the point contested unless you die, cause soldiers + not having 30 in CS will lower your Dmg by ~50% ( perhaps even more ).

Once in 3 mins you possibly could kill someone due to ThiefsGuild.

Your support in Mid fights will be meeh , cause you deal really low dmg compared to outher thiefs builds.

It’s always tricky to play backpoint…you have to tank + kill at the same time.

Thieves will probably always be the runner up candidates for this role compared to eles, mesmers, rangers, but it IS possible.

I personally don’t really like relying on thieves guild though because someone could just disengage and come back after they disappear…and that’s a 180s cd right there. Chances are, you can use it twice a match…what do you do when you don’t have thieves? Probably won’t do enough damage or have enough ccs to suffice. I would probably invest the dps in my thief than to rely on AI.

From experience I feel that backnode gets contested more than a few times in matches especially when you’re up against…well, cruuk or vexeus :p That’s why I almost always have to sit around node with my ele if Cruuk is on the other team unless I’m sure that he’s dead or at mid.

i love this notion that if you arent a 25/30/0/0/15 thief that you do no damage

its prob. the most ignorant thing ive ever heard especially when im going to have the ability to have a thieves guild every fight considering i can drop a ambush immediatly after they pop the first one

I run a 10/30/30/0/0 spec in pvp and i promise u i will burst more than any other thief in the game and the reason is because of the might stacks you get in 25 into shadow arts im able to stack 10 migh stacks from stealth and pop 2-3 sigs for 20-25 might stacks which will do more damage then any other 25/30/0/0/15 back stab EVEN WHEN IM SOLDIERS AMMY considering im always critting from stealth

and to say that perma stealth is useless is also a joke considering you obv dont perma stealth u just stack enough stealth to ur liking its very helpful in removing condi/healing/stacking might/sustaining your initiative/ and VERY useful in the fact that you can play mind games with ppl on where your going

Im callin it right now Meta will be far point thief home point theif and proboly double necro gaurd mid

I like your enthusiasm, but the hyperboles really hurt your argument. People saying that a 10/30/30 thief deals no damage are kind of ignorant, but so are those claiming that you can burst harder with with than 25/30/0/0/15.

Mathematically that’s just baseless and actually wrong, even if we threw a berserker amulet on you. You can not maintain 10 might stacks, you can however open on somebody with 10 might stacks by using Shadow Refuge. For the other 15 might stacks from signets or shadow trap etc. (10 actually since you insist on having ambush trap on your bar, which btw is totally random on what it spawns and while the melee one is great dps, the ranged one is just a waste of space, Signet of Power and Shadow Trap itself are not exclusive to 10/30/30 builds).

In essence you gain a total of up to 10 might stacks over a 25/30/0/0/15 thief (only if you initiate with SR as mentioned above), which translate to 350 power (~16% damage increase). Your base power is, however, 150 lower, for a total net advantage of 190 power or ~9% damage.

On the other hand you have an initiative pool of 12 instead of 15, which in itself means that your first burst will be seeing you land backstab with around 4 initiative left, because you have no Kleptomaniac (thus losing 10% from First Strikes) in addition to having no Exposed Weakness for another 10% damage loss compared to the 25/30/0/0/15 build.

Lastly you lose Thrill of the Crime, which increases yours and your group’s fury uptime, which will only add to the burst deficit I have laid down above.

I am not even touching on the Hidden Killer vs. Executioner part, because I was actually analyzing both builds with a berserker amulet. Soldier amulet burst dps would obviously be lower still.

I hope that settles any notion of 10/30/30 having higher burst capabilities. It will still deal respectable amounts of damage and have otehr advantages that we all know.

official.4658:

Im callin it right now Meta will be far point thief home point theif and proboly double necro gaurd mid

Thief is way too susceptible to CC for either role. Also, if you use Corrosive Traps, they will always know you’re coming.

official.4658:

i love this notion that if you arent a 25/30/0/0/15 thief that you do no damage

its prob. the most ignorant thing ive ever heard especially when im going to have the ability to have a thieves guild every fight considering i can drop a ambush immediatly after they pop the first one

I run a 10/30/30/0/0 spec in pvp and i promise u i will burst more than any other thief in the game and the reason is because of the might stacks you get in 25 into shadow arts im able to stack 10 migh stacks from stealth and pop 2-3 sigs for 20-25 might stacks which will do more damage then any other 25/30/0/0/15 back stab EVEN WHEN IM SOLDIERS AMMY considering im always critting from stealth

Depending on Runes+Utils+Sigils you have around 70-90% critchance with your opener when you use traited steal , i would always go 20% dmg on targets below 50% HP !!!

Also, if you do not belive us, feel free to go into the mists and burst against a heavy armor golem with 10/30/30/0/0 and afterwards with 25/30/0/0/15 or 30/30/0/0/10 D/D fullzerker ( something like this ) .

Feel free to post a vid of your dmg-tryouts.

Uhh I can maintain 10 stacks of might on my thief. Also there is a period of time that you get 12 stacks.

Jinks.2057:

Uhh I can maintain 10 stacks of might on my thief. Also there is a period of time that you get 12 stacks.

That’s because you are not in combat and just leaping in and out of smoke fields permanently. A lot of good those might stacks will do you. As soon as you enter combat, you are not maintaining 10 might stacks (getting up to 12 I assume you actually run a 0/30/30/10/0 build, but that’s irrelevant in any case)

In any combat situation you’ll usually be able to maintain 4 stacks with a maximum of 6 for a brief time.

Okay, so, to the people who don’t know how the build works, please stop chirping.

The 150 power you miss out on from not getting 25/30/0/0/15 is compensated by the +300 power that you can keep on with might, nevermind the +750 you get come burst time . The biggest loss isn’t the difference in burst, its having a much weaker shortbow setup because of 1) no weakness and 2) your sustained damage in shortbow tails off after your stacks start dropping.

Additionally, because 10/30/30 can heal itself to full repeatedly before opening, scholar runes’ 10% additional damage always procs, completely negating the requirement for 25 in power. Ogre works very well too because of how durable the spec is.

And no, you don’t ‘usually maintain 4-6 stacks, since the 10/30/30 runs 2-3 signets, all of which provide 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds. You can easily open on someone with 22-25 stacks of might with assassin’s popped and your scholar’s bonus activated. Basically you lose the 5% in dagger training for +500 might when straight up comparing the bursts. Note that in team fights, alternate sources of might make 25/30/0/0/15 stronger, but that’s part of why 25/30/0/0/15 is considered the most team-reliant spec in the game.

thank you archer someone has a brain

Btw anyone whos interseted the backpoint thief is working swimmingly

Please post a vid of your OP spec where you kill a heavy armor golem or a boss in the mists , and i show you that 25/30/0/0/15 will get the job done much faster …

Of course you can heal up yourself and hide better, but this is not a thiefs job ( at least in my teams , i am there to deal dmg , perhaps you have a different position ).

1v1 wise a x/x/30/x/x has more staying power, but in most cases just not the power to kill a full bunker ( or sometimes a halfbunker) , unless TG is up or/and surprise opener.

ok well im waiting on ur video now Btw this is a soldiers ammy burst not a beserker i thought id make it interesting

as far as tanky chars go the only class i cant kill thats tanky is either a BM ranger or Bunker ele… Both of which i can hold nute forever agasint until they bring someone back to help. And as long as im holding a point nute its an even 4v4 at mid and we have the advantage

also when someone does come back to help he falls right into my trap of me leaving a port at far and killing him along to mid while his friend has to sit and watch or else its another free decap

Not to mention i can get a second backstab off with 22 might stacks with the 10 sec durration on my might
: )