Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
No healers = class balance must be perfect.
You forgot to consider that sometimes you die just because the other person has a build that counters yours. You can’t win every fight.
Sadly, no healers just isn’t true. It’s just that people choose most of the time not to build their characters that way. More commonly people will go either the glass cannon build or more of a defensive bunker build, but both are centered usually around things the person accomplishes themselves. So no buffs or support for the team, etc… etc…
I’ve built my engineer into a support/heal build and I can heal the kitten out of my team mates, have fantastic utility to avoid and mitigate damage all together for myself and teammates, and I have lots of condition removal.
There are no traditional healers in this game, even if people build completely for support. A traditional healer has:
1. great healing,
2. low armor,
3. low damage,
4. low cc
In GW2, the traditional “support” spec is
1. low healing,
2. high armor,
3. low damage,
4. high cc
Yes, that does make this game ten times as difficult to balance as a standard MMO. Give it time.
The thing about healers is they act to help the game scale up to a higher number of players. Without them it makes it much more difficult to balance around both 1v1s and 5v5s. As in conquest both 1v1s and 5v5s can occur it almost becomes impossible to truely balance pvp.
This is because they offer a teamwide defensive resource. A shared resource encourages intelligent target switching rather than just sitting your dps on someone important because they are guaranteed to die. This also allows teams to increase their defensive resource pool by taking more healers to offset the increase in number of players.
Gw2 ‘shared’ resource system is based around reses/rallies with the resource itself being the bunkers hp/stun immunity cooldowns.
With Aoe the number of bunkers doesn’t linearly increase this defensive resource as the hp pool of all the bunkers can be hit with AoE. Also as the resource mostly ends up being an hp pool for a single bunker, they aren’t properly scaled for 1v1s. It also either puts a stupid amount of emphasis on the downstate as the determining factor of a fight or makes it irrelevant due to AoE depending on the number of players involved. As such the game cannot be truely balanced across fights between different player numbers.
What Gw2 really needs is another mechanic that offers a teamwide defensive resource outside of just the downed state and doesn’t have to specifically be from healers. The downed state really isn’t sufficient for this role alone and mostly just becomes an ‘unfun mechanic’ even when balanced around the number of players present.
@OP
Go back to PvE then. I don’t know why a Necro is complaining about PvP when the class itself is legitimately more broken than Thieves at full potential.
Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?
@OP
Go back to PvE then. I don’t know why a Necro is complaining about PvP when the class itself is legitimately more broken than Thieves at full potential.
I probably play your faceroll main better then you do.
With no healers game needs to be balanced based off 1v1s because that really all combat comes down to.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
@OP
Go back to PvE then. I don’t know why a Necro is complaining about PvP when the class itself is legitimately more broken than Thieves at full potential.
I probably play your faceroll main better then you do.
With no healers game needs to be balanced based off 1v1s because that really all combat comes down to.
Trying to balance a game off of 1v1 situations is the reason this game is going downhill… its pvp your not suppose to have 1v1 situations. If you are runnign into an abundance of 1v1’s one of two things are true, You have a kitteny team who doesnt support or you are a bad player running around looking for 1v1 for an easy kill.
there are no character imbalances only mindset and skillset gaps…. its the reason they added combo fields into the game. This game require team work communication and skill to win… its cry baby people like you who are used to EZ mode games who destroy a game that has nothing wrong with it… I hope arena net doesnt cater to softcore nubs who cry to make the game easier
There is plenty of data showing what people are playing and what is winning more then other classes.
The classes that are dominating are also strong 1 v 1 classes Mesmer Thief Guardian.
Ill say it again I probably play a thief better then you do anyway, and I played games at the highest rated pvp level top % of the pvp population with actual matched arenas I doubt you have. Some classes are extream EZ mode like the thief and mesmer where other classes need extream skill to just be ok like the Ele for example.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
(edited by Xom.9264)
Are you even on the list for qualifying points? then be quite you dont play thief better and it shows cause you obviously dont know how to counter them… I know for a fact you dont play at the top level because BS spec thief in paid tourny are non existant, none, zero… peopel dont use them because they are not viable
Hell even Caltrops are about to be non-viable considering you can’t afford Rune of Lyssa on Thieves AND Necro/Ele/Guardian popularity.
Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?
Whats qualifying points if there is not rated matching?
Its nothing but a farm fest. I’ll respect no system that is not matching the best vs the best in a systems that does not reward farming. Aka You drop to a lower tier if you lose no amount of farming or trying will get you to the higher tier only beating high tier teams should get you there.
There are more thieves then necros and eles…. Ill give you the guardian point there are alot of them.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
are you thick in the head?? thats the entire point of a 3 round system, only the good teams progress… meaning its only the best vs the best in the end. Sorry you cant make it past round 1… if it wasnt then you would see a larger list of people who have qualifying points. but instead its a list of 50 people tops from each region out of millions of people who play this game
To put it simple, you get high ranking faster if you’re good, and if you’re lacking then no.
In Xom’s case, abandon all hope.
Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?
3 round system is not a rated systems its a farm based system.
No matter how much you played WoW arenas if you were not better then 1800 ratings you could play 24/7 and never pass that mark.
It might be too hardcore for the pretend pvpers because it all came down to winning against the people at your same rating… win a move up lose and go down only the best of the best made it to high ratings.
Right now faster or slower is pointless its a farm based system that = play more get higher qualifying points. No serious pvper that has played a rated pvp game is going to respect a system like that. GW1 not that I played it alot but I do know the GvG fights were rated so you knew who was the best guilds and it was not based on farming.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
(edited by Xom.9264)
3 round system is not a rated systems its a farm based system.
No matter how much you played WoW arenas if you were not better then 1800 ratings you could play 24/7 and never pass that mark.
It might be too hardcore for the pretend pvpers because it all came down to winning against the people at your same rating… win a move up lose and go down only the best of the best made it to high ratings.
Right now faster or slower is pointless its a farm based system that = play more get higher qualifying points. No serious pvper that has played a rated pvp game is going to respect a system like that. GW1 not that I played it alot but I do know the GvG fights were rated so you knew who was the best guilds and it was not based on farming.
lol what a freakin joke… so you saying joe smo with no experiece or talent at all puts in 10-12 hours a day will have mroe qualifying points then someone with skill?? im sorry but your dead wrong my friend… the only peopel who get qual points are the poeple who make it to round 3… only people who make it to round 3 are the best in the world… if your to dumb to see that then your never going to realise that you havent had a single valid arguing point yet
challenge anyone who has qual points to a 1v1 and I will bet real $ that you lose every single time 100% of the time
lol what a freakin joke… so you saying joe smo with no experiece or talent at all puts in 10-12 hours a day will have mroe qualifying points then someone with skill??
Yes thats exactly what im saying.
I like systems that I can play for a few hours a week with my vented up buddies against other players of our skill level and move up the ladder. We at one point were a well oiled machine few hours of game play we held tops spots while players of lesser skill would play 10-12 hours a day and be stuck at the rating they were at.
If being considered good in the game is QP farming, kitten this game I have a life and a full time job. Give us a rating system based on skill or watch the games pvp become a joke in the MMO pvp community.
Not that hard to do, game has alot going for it just implement a rated system because once people go it can take a long time if ever to get them back.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
lol what a freakin joke… so you saying joe smo with no experiece or talent at all puts in 10-12 hours a day will have mroe qualifying points then someone with skill??
The amount of truth in this statement tends to be directly proportional to the number of teams in the paid pool.
Assuming GW2’s pvp scene was more popular and had a very wide range of teams queueing (both real premades and the equivalent of trade chat pugs) then it would be far easier for subpar players to accumulate QP’s because -
1. No matchmaking whatsoever, thus increasing the probability of bad players being matched against even worse players.
2. No QP attrition upon losing.
Put #1 and #2 together, and you end up with a system where time investment can very realistically eclipse genuine skill if the player pool is large enough. Currently, GW2’s player pool is not large enough so QP’s are a decent indicator of relative team skill. However, if GW2’s pvp ever sees any kind of significant population boom, then the QP “ladder” is going to turn into a sad joke when compared to a real rating system.
Well Noctred I would still say the QPs are not a indicator of potential team skill just current. If good team based players from other MMOs and this game see no reason to pvp because there is no rating and just a farming system then we will never really know with a QP system because the pool will always be very small with a few groups farming each other.
So back to my point… if there is no ladder system there will be not be a pvp system worth anything at least in my eyes.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
Not basing combat on anything but spec… class balance must be perfect…
The game doesn’t give much kitten for positioning, it doesn’t give much kitten for how much you work with other people (small/random encounter sizes, terrible synergy between classes unless you pre-spec for it).
When near everything is based on the spec itself… yeah balance is pretty important, but GW2 shoved themselves into that ditch all on their own, so I would have expected them to have actually worked hard to work threw it (which they haven’t).
lol what a freakin joke… so you saying joe smo with no experiece or talent at all puts in 10-12 hours a day will have mroe qualifying points then someone with skill??
The amount of truth in this statement tends to be directly proportional to the number of teams in the paid pool.
Assuming GW2’s pvp scene was more popular and had a very wide range of teams queueing (both real premades and the equivalent of trade chat pugs) then it would be far easier for subpar players to accumulate QP’s because -
1. No matchmaking whatsoever, thus increasing the probability of bad players being matched against even worse players.
2. No QP attrition upon losing.
Put #1 and #2 together, and you end up with a system where time investment can very realistically eclipse genuine skill if the player pool is large enough. Currently, GW2’s player pool is not large enough so QP’s are a decent indicator of relative team skill.
However, if GW2’s pvp ever sees any kind of significant population boom, then the QP “ladder” is going to turn into a sad joke when compared to a real rating system.
Regarding the bolded part:
It’s exactly th current system the one which is preventing the tPvP population to grow.
With this QP leaderbord joke, no mathcmaking, no real ladder and stuff like those, i’ve totally no desire at all to search for a good team ( waiting for my friends to come back when those features are implemented).
I’ve not so much time to grind for QPs, i want a freaking rank system so that if i’m skilled and beat the 1st team in ranking, my rank can go up of a big shot.
And i’m sure i’m not the only one thinking like this.