Guild Wars 2

Evidently they’re going to remove jewels from amulets and make amulets have all of the stats the two currently give.

So what’s the deal? Is there any sort of solid reasoning behind this change? This is a step in the wrong direction and limits diversity of builds substantially. If anything there should be rings and accessories as well as amulets to increase build diversity and make builds more tailored to a players playstyle.

I’m struggling to understand exactly why you’re doing this. I didn’t actually watch the full ready up, but someone told me that a-net believes the current jewel+ammy system is too confusing for the playerbase… If this is the case then I beg you to reconsider. It’s not rocket science, every piece of gear in this game has an upgrade. The upgrades even ALREADY COME WITH THE AMULET. It’s one of the easiest things to grasp in this game; even if you’re so much of a scrub that you don’t understand it you already receive the stats by default. It’s impossible to have an amulet WITHOUT an upgrade….

Honestly a-net?

Basically i’m not a real fan about builds diversity, i think more variables create a really hard game to balance properly.

With this patch Anet will add A LOT of GM traits, rune and sigils. 2h weapon will have 2 slots and sigils will have separate CD.

I agree, only 1 rune for the entire set and no jewels is a little simplification of the entire system but honestly i don’t see this like a bad move.

There is less diversity with the system we have now but we need to consider the new variables that we’ll receive in 2 weeks.

I understand what you mean and I’ve considered that a possibility. But the removal of jewels itself becomes a variable that will effect balance considerably, especially considering the differences in power amulets where running a zerkers jewel on soldiers or valks ammy is one of the main ways to go.

It pigeon-holes people into further tankier specs or further glassier specs thereby “nerfing” what they found to be the most optimal combination

Gotta agree with OEggs on this. We should have 6 trinket slots: 2 rings, 2 accessories, 1 back slot, and 1 amulet. JUST like PvE and WvW have.

We need MORE build diversity, not less.

Adding more stat combinations will not make balance more difficult to achieve. If anything, it will make it easier to achieve.

More combinations means “not so glass cannon” DPS builds that can live longer, but also don’t completely destroy you in two hits because presumably you’re no longer full glass, and because they can not longer insta-gib, need to live after their burst combo, so they aren’t full glass either.

Further, more stat combos would open up trait line combinations that currently aren’t viable. An offensive build that can sustain itself in combat or support allies can’t exist currently because it can’t mix survival stats and offensive stats at a proper ratio. When you bring new trait lines into play, they may be able to counter-play current builds that are overpowered because they don’t have a counter.

And if the reason is that “it’s too complicated for players” I don’t know what to think. We already have to mix and match stats on 13-14 items in PvE.

I would argue for 3 or 4 slots of roughly equal stat value for PvP, as well as the addition of the Knight’s combo. That should give enough room for diversity without getting too complicated.

Yup doesn’t really make any sense

I should also mention that this renders null and void any additional stat combinations they might throw in.

Why the hell do I want to wear cavalier gear if I have soldiers? Why can’t I use half and half?

I agree that the current PvP gear system isn’t confusing or too complex. Gearing up for PvE is far more complex and people understand that just fine.

Lowering the few stat options might make balancing runes and builds easier though. If that was the reason I could understand.

The reason I didn’t PvP for quite a while and chose to WvW instead was the lack of stat options in PvP. The only reason I wound up in PvP was because my server went T1 and I can’t stand the blobfests. Now my already limited stat options are being limited even more : /

Further, adding stat diversity in PvP should be the top priority for the PvP team.

Yeah, for sure many things will change with this patch, and this is one of them, but we don’t need to forget that combinations like soldier + zerk or valkyrie + zerk are one of the components of “monster” builds like “idoeverythingwell” warrior (now) and the old “idideverythingwell” elementalist (in the past).

So, i’m not really against this move, i want to see what this patch will generate about balance, i’m sure some runes/sigils will need to be modified (intelligence? perplexity? ) and maybe a little simplification for some game aspect is not so bad.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Yeah, for sure many things will change with this patch, and this is one of them, but we don’t need to forget that combinations like soldier + zerk or valkyrie + zerk are one of the components of “monster” builds like “idoeverythingwell” warrior (now) and the old “idideverythingwell” elementalist (in the past).

It wasn’t the stat combinations that made them too good. They would be powerful no matter how much stat diversity was in the game.

Yeah, essentially something has to give. You want balance? You get less choices. Let them balance the game and stop crying over every single thing they do. The simplification of gear in sPVP is 100% needed. Besides… Jewels were like 12% stats, hardly game-breaking changes. I was rooting for removal or increasing jewel stat weight, but and I’m fine with the removal.

Acandis.3250:

Let’s pretend for a second that the people that make these decisions frequent this forum and care about what any of you have to say…

LOLOL – how long did you last before you started giggling uncontrollably? Didn’t take long for me, what a fun game!

Whit.2385:

Acandis.3250:

Let’s pretend for a second that the people that make these decisions frequent this forum and care about what any of you have to say…

LOLOL – how long did you last before you started giggling uncontrollably? Didn’t take long for me, what a fun game!

ronpierce.2760:

Yeah, essentially something has to give. You want balance? You get less choices. Let them balance the game and stop crying over every single thing they do. The simplification of gear in sPVP is 100% needed. Besides… Jewels were like 12% stats, hardly game-breaking changes. I was rooting for removal or increasing jewel stat weight, but and I’m fine with the removal.

If you’re rooting for balance then removing the jewels isn’t the right choice. It further muddies the waters by changing the status quo of stats. Your other point, that jewels were hardly game-breaking, is true; why change them if they don’t mean anything?

As far as simplification in pvp, it’s already oversimplified. In PvE and WvW you have absurd amounts of stat choices and combinations on 12 pieces of gear (excluding weapons) AND food that provides a variety of effects and procs. I’m not extolling such insane diversity as beneficial, but the removal of the ONE form of stat diversification that we get is just asinine especially when they’re adding more stat combinations in the exact same patch. Who the kitten is going to use cavaliers or magi or celestial when it’s the ONLY stats they get?

It literally makes zero sense.

FINALLY you telling me to QQ and “let them balance the game” is laughable. Where have you been and what balance have you seen?

ANET is dumbing down PVP while simultaneously restricting PVP builds by removing these gems and the unlock system. I really don’t like this direction they’re heading in.

I’m not rooting for ANet, I’ve learned better than that. But, it’s simple logic. The fewer choices, the easier balance becomes. No more jewels+ perma 6x set bonuses, that cuts out a lot of variation, for better or for worse, in the long run, it makes balancing that much easier. And honestly, I don’t see it as that big of a deal. Like I said, jewels weren’t THAT big anyways. They should have been something like 25% of the stats rather than 14, but whateva.

ronpierce.2760:

I’m not rooting for ANet, I’ve learned better than that. But, it’s simple logic. The fewer choices, the easier balance becomes. No more jewels+ perma 6x set bonuses, that cuts out a lot of variation, for better or for worse, in the long run, it makes balancing that much easier. And honestly, I don’t see it as that big of a deal. Like I said, jewels weren’t THAT big anyways. They should have been something like 25% of the stats rather than 14, but whateva.

Yeah LoL went esports cause they only have 3 champions so it’s super easy to balance.

Not sure if that’s sarcasm or not, but, whatever. In LoL you don’t have much choice of how the characters are made up. That’s easy to balance. The problem with GW2 isn’t the variation it’s the freedom of variation. If they did away with talents, stats, sigils, runes and gave you 40 classes it’d be more balance than it is currently because they could reach a certain margin on each character over a course of time without worry of theory crafters shaking that balance. Are you even trying to use your brain, or are you just screaming that the sky is falling? Be honest so I don’t waste my time.

How does streamlining it for new players when you can step into Pve/wvw and have tons of different options that dwarfs amulet + jewels.

Who is your target for this? The imaginary person who buys the game and goes straight to the mists without ever stepping foot in pve or wvw and learning the game?

It just sounds like a excuse that doesnt make sense. I understand simplifying it makes balancing easier but your getting paid for a reason so dont be afraid to work.

Justin ODell.9517:

I can’t speak for the designers, but I see this change (and the runes change) as one with the goal of streamline builds. Removing unneeded complexity benefits the game by making it easier for new players to pickup, while also making it easier balance the game as a whole.

Sure more options mean more possible builds, and more ability to tailor to your exact play style, but it doesn’t necessarily mean better builds or a better game.

I know at first, when doing the mental math, it felt like a bit of a contradiction to add more complexity in one area (traits) while removing it from another (amulets). Again, not presuming to speak for the designers, but I think it makes sense when you consider the impact each area has. Amulets are raw stats so they have a much bigger impact on balance because they affect everything. Why wouldn’t they want to lock down the most highly variable aspect of balance? Having greater impact means the cost of complexity grows exponentially.

At the same time, I could see the change also giving the designers more flexibility to do even more with amulets because math. 10 amulets with 10 jewels is 100 possible combinations, right? Now they only have to worry about just 12 amulets… which means they have 88 more amulets to go before they reach the same level complexity.

I know some people will think the difference between ‘streamlining’ and ‘dumbing down’ is only semantic, but I think intent is very important when trying to project where the game is heading in the future. This is part of the reason I’m very optimistic about where we’re going, and I think you should be too.

What are your arguments for the fine-tuning approach that jewels give? What exactly did it open up? What is now going to disappear? I’m genuinely interested in both sides of this one.

I was really hoping this would be the answer and I am extremely happy that it is. I remember a thread talking about how you can go from one extreme to the other and that it makes the game much harder to balance compared to games like LoL where even the trait points were extremely small in changes and it gave the illusion of player customization more so than how much it really affected the game. The less complex things are the easier they are to balance which is great. We’ll I’m satisfied.

clint.5681:

How does streamlining it for new players when you can step into Pve/wvw and have tons of different options that dwarfs amulet + jewels.

Who is your target for this? The imaginary person who buys the game and goes straight to the mists without ever stepping foot in pve or wvw and learning the game?

It just sounds like a excuse that doesnt make sense. I understand simplifying it makes balancing easier but your getting paid for a reason so dont be afraid to work.

It doesn’t just make it easier, it makes it more possible and you can get closer to balance. No MMO’S can achieve perfect balance. But the less you can change and customize, the closer you can get to that balance. WvW and PvE would never have major esport competition inside of it so it makes sense it would primarily be focused on Arena. Ya everyone hates that word but if it’s ever going to happen, or if people ever want to consider gw2 as a great competitive PvP scene, stuff like this needs to happen imo

Justin ODell.9517:

clint.5681:

How does streamlining it for new players when you can step into Pve/wvw and have tons of different options that dwarfs amulet + jewels.

The cost of mistakes are so much lower in PvE. Most PvP players are way more skilled than our AI, so you can get away with bad builds for much longer.

Well ill say prior to this upcoming patch in pvp if you made a mistake with your build all you had to was switch out free equipment and try again.

In Pve the cost for making a bad buid was in gold, and you had a lot more options to make a mistake with. If you did make a mistake you paid it in gold.

I guess I just dont like what I see as a dumbing down of build options when a lot of us ask for the exact opposite. Its one of the main reasons a lot of wvw players say they wont enter the mists. bla bla “vocal minority”.

Honestly, I really wish there is a way that alike to PvP Ranks we can make the devs change their mind on this. It’s really one of those really blunder issues that I honestly cannot believe is going through. We are already stuck with little to no customization and now they are removing what little we had for our stats in PvP.

I don’t know if I speak for anybody else but personally I almost NEVER use the same stat jewel in the ammy. I like to be able to enhance other aspects. IE: I’ll use a soldier amulet with zerk jewel for ferocity, or use a zerk amulet with barbarian jewel for a little bit more hp, etc…. I think it’s really a bad design decision. There are a ton of new cool features coming up but gameplay wise this is absolutely terrible for PvP.

I just don’t understand why ANET is trying to dumb down builds even further. This is a really bad idea ANET.

Signed for keeping jewels.

This is, as many people have said, a nice bonus for players that put the time in to perfect their build. And since the jewels have very little stats, it does not overly damage a noob who doesn’t fully grasp the value of the various stats in relation to their build.

Removing this will benefit no one and hurt many, including myself. (I was using cleric amulet with barb jewel on my guard to increase my hp pool and give me a little extra precision. I gave me an extra 4% crit, which brought me up to 15%, enough I felt to utilize some of the longer cooldown on-crit sigils. ) I am always having fun customizing my pvp toons, as changes are so easy to make. With all these upcoming changes, I feel it will hurt pvp more than help.

Oeggs if you’ve played for this wrong and haven’t figured out yet that anet do balance desicions by throwing darts at a board then you’re blind sorry

Dont some Amulets, like the new Cavalier, become a little bit pointless?
I mean ferosity is useless if you dont have a decent crit chance especially for professions with bad fury access. And in order to negate it, now you have to invest in crit chance runes/sigils and traitlines.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

Not to be insulting but yeah that’s dumbing down the game. I feel like lowering the barrier to entry also makes the game even more shallow.

I can understand the explanation that this makes the game more easy to balance but that’s hard to take when it takes 5 months for balance patches to drop. So in the meantime, we have a dumbed down PVP experience with minimal balance updates.

That’s depressing.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

well if you keep dumbing things down and making the experience even more shallow than it already is i’m not sure there you’re gonna have any “new players.” if making builds was that complex (which is not, can’t get anymore braindead than it is now) then make tutorials.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

In August 2012 when I entered the mists for the first time it was 15 seconds… that’s how long it took me to figure out I could have a minor change on my amulet by using a gem. And at the time I remember thinking, “is that all I can do to diversify my build? Where’s the armor and weapons with stats on them?”. I couldn’t believe it and ran around the mists looking for other ways to somehow be able to mix up my stats. The concept that pvp stats were totally different than pve stats took up a lot more of my time than figuring out the gem issue.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

Edit: Just read the thread. I think the mixed messaging comes from two types of players.

1. Competitive PvP players/veterans that want simpler customisation to keep the game more balanced.

2. PvE/WvW casual players who want to be able to bring their build into PvP, thus, wanting more customisability.

This change will not ruin the game, obviously, and I will be glad to play if its not just a perplexity spam-fest (everything else looks superb so far!!). I would like to point-out from my own experience, however, that even removing the option for the jewel seriously hurts many potential builds that I have tried and might have become viable someday.

I am talking about amulets such as valkyrie, for instance, which is useless if you can’t get precision in some way (or abuse the new intelligence sigil :P ). Being able to take a zerker jewel or something allows the use of valks builds without speccing deep into the precision line. Phantaram brought up this point previously (about such an amulet), but if the amulet isn’t being modified in some way, then taking away the ability to get a few percent crit chance with a jewel really hurts.

Perhaps consider modifying the jewel, or splitting the amulet into 2 equal amulets in the future. I don’t think that would get too complex. We’ll see how this plays out though.

Justin ODell.9517:

What are your arguments for the fine-tuning approach that jewels give? What exactly did it open up? What is now going to disappear? I’m genuinely interested in both sides of this one.

i liked it much better during the beta, when we got many combinations to build from.

i think it was 5 trinkets plus 5 jewels.
amulet, ring 1, ring 2, accessory 1, accessory 2

i was very disappointed when it was changed into one amulet + one jewel shortly.

more combinations means i get to fine tune my defense and offense better, and not going into either extreme. i can find a balance.

what is going to disappear is the balanced stats.
now we must pick one extreme side.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Acandis.3250:

Let’s pretend for a second that the people that make these decisions frequent this forum and care about what any of you have to say…

+1

Dev confirmation: Anet does not care about player feedback

Justin ODell.9517:

I can’t speak for the designers, but I see this change (and the runes change) as one with the goal of streamline builds. Removing unneeded complexity benefits the game by making it easier for new players to pickup, while also making it easier balance the game as a whole.

Sure more options mean more possible builds, and more ability to tailor to your exact play style, but it doesn’t necessarily mean better builds or a better game.

I know at first, when doing the mental math, it felt like a bit of a contradiction to add more complexity in one area (traits) while removing it from another (amulets). Again, not presuming to speak for the designers, but I think it makes sense when you consider the impact each area has. Amulets are raw stats so they have a much bigger impact on balance because they affect everything. Why wouldn’t they want to lock down the most highly variable aspect of balance? Having greater impact means the cost of complexity grows exponentially.

At the same time, I could see the change also giving the designers more flexibility to do even more with amulets because math. 10 amulets with 10 jewels is 100 possible combinations, right? Now they only have to worry about just 12 amulets… which means they have 88 more amulets to go before they reach the same level complexity.

I know some people will think the difference between ‘streamlining’ and ‘dumbing down’ is only semantic, but I think intent is very important when trying to project where the game is heading in the future. This is part of the reason I’m very optimistic about where we’re going, and I think you should be too.

What are your arguments for the fine-tuning approach that jewels give? What exactly did it open up? What is now going to disappear? I’m genuinely interested in both sides of this one.

My question is; what is so complex about the interactions between Amulets and jewels?

If this was done in PvE, I’d understand but this is PvP, we don’t have much to customize.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

Not all of us participated in that thread, it was only two pages of various opinions. There have been other threads, like the one ask what stat combinations people wanted for amulets where people said they would like the option of more customization.

But either way it’s too late now, it will be in the game and we will have to just deal with it like everything else.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

There’s a difference in wanting stats to have less of an impact on builds and having less flexibility in build making.

It’s like saying I want smaller portions of food on the menu but then you turn around and take away all the soup from the menu but the portions of the remaining menu items are still too big.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

I also believe that in that thread, a few people mentioned that numbers weren’t the main thing that needed changing. And also, some people disagreed completely with that original poster as well.

My position on this jewel change is that, jewels and Amulet interactions are not that complex. In fact they were so harmless that I haven’t heard anyone say a build is OP or the game is impossible to understand because there is too many jewels.

If “Too many Jewels” was ever a topic then this would be a reason to change things but it never was.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

So theme of this release sound more and more new players new players, like you need more income.

An old players get short end of the stick, for me to be able to put that Valkyrie jewel to Berserker Amulet is an important thing for my super squishy Elementalist.

When this game came out the buzz word was build diversity now the buzz word new players come to our game it is super easy.

This is a big slap in the face for Pvp’ers, more than 1 accessory is too complex for us but Pve’ers get 6 accessory’s with jewel slots in each.

In the amulet thread awhile ago most people were asking for more stat diversity by increasing the stat weight of jewels or adding an extra accessory but as usual Aanet goes the exact opposite direction. Now my condi/power hybrid build goes down the drain and i’m left with going full glass power.

Jon Sharp does someone have to constantly remind you that you are designing a MMO ? It’s time to throw away your vision of a FPS/MOBA/MMO hybrid pvp game without customization, rewards or progression.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

My question is; Don’t you think the process of learning a game’s complexities and overcoming them is how a player falls in love with the game?

I remember starting this game out as well and I can tell you the one thing that took me time to understand.

Nope it wasn’t jewel interactions, it wasn’t stat combos, it was the functions of every single, trait, sigil and rune and all the possible interactions between them.

I’m glad you guys finally got around to editting the wording behind many of the traits (some skills still need that btw * cough cough * Zealot’s defence * cough cough *) but darn if that didn’t take a while.

Now please don’t that take the fact that it took a while for me to learn things as a bad thing because when the game clicked, everything clicked. A bit like a lego piece you couldn’t find until you stepped on it.
A player is supposed to progress in-game (leveling up and beating challenges) as well as progress in knowledge (learning more about the game, for example, animation cancelling, skill combos, jump dodging) and trust me when I say; jewels are not a major part of that complexity right now

BUT

If you’re planning to add more stat combinations to the game that will make up for the loss of the jewels then fine, but if not, please leave it in.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

I just wanted to say you’re doing a great job, Allie! You’re always looking from different sides at things and giving great arguments. Keep up the good work!

Justin ODell.9517:

I can’t speak for the designers, but I see this change (and the runes change) as one with the goal of streamline builds. Removing unneeded complexity benefits the game by making it easier for new players to pickup, while also making it easier balance the game as a whole.

i keep seeing this excuse being thrown out by dev team, but in reality pvp is where everything is simplified. there’s way less customization to be had in pvp than in pve where you have to select back pieces, earrings, rings, armor stats, weapon stats, etc etc etc etc. with the pvp amulet concept there’s already far less room for build diversity than its pve counterpart, and yet you guys insist on taking a huge chunk of it out with this change. it makes no sense. are pve accessories losing socket bonuses? what about ascended rings and backpieces? they have TWO sockets. WHOA THERE that’s a brain buster!

furthermore i’d like to think that anet doesn’t actually believe its playerbase are a bunch of morons incapable of grasping the simple idea of socket bonuses. new players learn the game. the game shouldn’t dumb itself down to cater to new players.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

How is it going to stop new players from making bad builds? If players don’t know what stats are, removing the jewel isn’t going to help them figure it out either. You know amulets always had a default jewel equipped right? Players didn’t even have to learn about it.

When I started PvP, I didn’t even know you could equip different jewels. When I found out about it, it just opened more variety in builds. Like you guys are trying to do with new traits!

Maybe you guys should make a tutorial for these players, instead of dumbing down everything? Besides that, learning should be part of every game(mode).

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

They’re different messages.

The thread you linked is describing “power creep” where stats get outside the range for the game was originally designed and overshadow basic mechanics. It’s usually in the form of going to an extreme with a narrow focus. For example, in games with vertical scaling, tanks could stack enough avoidance so that they could never be hit for full damage. In GW2, players can stack so much damage and active defense to kill a mob before they even need to worry about taking damage, rendering partial damage reduction meaningless. What that thread suggests is that the game design needs to have a significant percentage of abilities or stats that can’t be changed – make the extremes not so extreme.

In sPvP, the amulets allow only the extremes out of the portion that we can customize. We want to be able to customize more within the already established bounds.

For example, as a heavy profession in sPvP, discounting trait selection, I can make my armor 2100-2300 or 2800-3000. I can’t make it anywhere in between.