Guild Wars 2

Non-meta builds often are overlooked when it comes to balance. The general consensus is that if it was overpowered, it would be in the meta. But just because it’s not in the meta, doesn’t mean a build can’t be broken. There are at least a few broken builds in non meta: Overtuned for burst combos or near-immortal bunkers.

Bunker Rev is in my strong opinion overtuned for sustain. I don’t think Revs overall are overpowered, but this particular build is broken.

Condi thief is overtuned and broken.

And I strongly believe the burst combo from power shatter GS chronos are way overtuned. And what makes it worst is that the burst combos is often done from stealth and preemptive blocks won’t save you, but the opening daze is unblockable. It interrupts blocks to stun you while blocking, and then GS#2 bounces to you and back to you is also unblockable. And all of the damage hits in about 1/4th of a second, through blocks and while you are stunned.

This burst combination is broken. Whether or not, GS mesmers are in meta or not, these type of burst combos is unhealthy for the game. It takes no skill because anyone can memorize a burst combos and use from the safety of stealth, or use a macro which is often the case.

Here is a pic of me getting blown up, while i was blocking, from stealth, in 1/4th of a second. My amulet also has 560 toughness, but I might as well had 0 toughness against this overwhelming burst combo.

Downed dps mesmer phantasm skill 3 is even worse,hitting 8-9k with each hit.

Greatsword Mesmers? I don’t get it: what is so op on GS Mesmer? Maybe it’s just me but i have never been experiencing any problems with GS Mesmers/Chronos. Dmg is low, you won’t kill anything with half a brain with GS as Mesmer 1 vs 1. Maybe there are some super skilled GS Mesmers who know how to play their spec but i’ve never met any of them. Scepter condi Mesmer is way more broken imo.

Mesmer did get a dps buff recently tho.Not that strong 1v1(glass cannon) but can kitten you up during teamfights from afar unless you dodge the shatter.

What i find the most annoying about them is the clone spam,however its a quick win if you find the real mesmer and burst him/her down,as they have close to 0 defense except sword/shield if its a chrono

Mesmer’s stun/daze (confounding suggestions) is not unblockable. Mind Wrack is not unblockable. Mind Stab is not unblockable

Quadox.7834:

Mesmer’s stun/daze (confounding suggestions) is not unblockable. Mind Wrack is not unblockable. Mind Stab is not unblockable

I didn’t say mind wrack or mindstab was unblockable. I said gs#2 because it is unblockable. And I said the daze/stun because it definitely interrupted my block.

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.
I was blocking with offhand sword. It blocks and immediately follows into an evade frame. Nothing was blocked and nothing was evaded. I was just stunned and blown up. My only guess is that the daze/stun interrupted my block first and all attacks hit after.

I didn’t test the daze on the block after, but this is what happened.

Hot Boy.7138:

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.

Uhhh it really should be. Unless something triggered your block and you were stunned following it, the evade is only 1/2 second… If it’s a bug might need further testing… that said you might want to double check the evade on offhand sword because that could be bugged too.

Daishi.6027:

Hot Boy.7138:

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.

Uhhh it really should be. Unless something triggered your block and you were stunned following it, the evade is only 1/2 second… If it’s a bug might need further testing… that said you might want to double check the evade on offhand sword because that could be bugged too.

Nothing else took the block because it was the start of the match. I grabbed home and he came to take. so just a 1v1 at the beginning. I immediately saw the purple fire and stealth, you know what that means. Some big burst is coming. I wait a bit then use off hand sword block. Off hand’s sword block is relatlively long. 2.5 seconds compared to shield’s 1.5 second. So i’m sure the block was up when I was blown up. I even typed in say chat after saying, “what is block?”. Cause really what is block if it does nothing to mitigate that kind of burst.

I don’t want to dwell on the block though. The point I want to make is that this particular burst combo is broken and shouldn’t even exist even if it is a non meta build. Power shatter gs mesmers can blow up anyone 20k hp and under in 1/2 a second or less from stealth. This build goes under the radar because it’s not used in tournaments that I know of. Nonetheless, burst combos of this scale just shouldn’t be possible.

And I have some pretty crazy burst myself. But it’s through a series of well timed interrupts. And i’m not looking down on players that take this build. The fault is not with them for playing “smart”. The fault is with the people that balance traits, skills, and builds, and classes in general.

Reduce instant/synced damage increase sustained damage. This works against bunkers and does not ruin squishes.

Hot Boy.7138:

Non-meta builds often are overlooked when it comes to balance. The general consensus is that if it was overpowered, it would be in the meta. But just because it’s not in the meta, doesn’t mean a build can’t be broken. There are at least a few broken builds in non meta: Overtuned for burst combos or near-immortal bunkers.

Bunker Rev is in my strong opinion overtuned for sustain. I don’t think Revs overall are overpowered, but this particular build is broken.

Condi thief is overtuned and broken.

And I strongly believe the burst combo from power shatter GS chronos are way overtuned. And what makes it worst is that the burst combos is often done from stealth and preemptive blocks won’t save you, but the opening daze is unblockable. It interrupts blocks to stun you while blocking, and then GS#2 bounces to you and back to you is also unblockable. And all of the damage hits in about 1/4th of a second, through blocks and while you are stunned.

This burst combination is broken. Whether or not, GS mesmers are in meta or not, these type of burst combos is unhealthy for the game. It takes no skill because anyone can memorize a burst combos and use from the safety of stealth, or use a macro which is often the case.

Here is a pic of me getting blown up, while i was blocking, from stealth, in 1/4th of a second. My amulet also has 560 toughness, but I might as well had 0 toughness against this overwhelming burst combo.

I have a match with this mesmer in opposite side 11hours ago, probably this mesmer’s build can burst you 24k+ hp in 2 sec
(I am 24k hp 0 toughness in the build)

I agree with condi thief and bunker rev, but I think power mesmer should be left untouched.

For a few reasons:
1. Mirror blades not hard to dodge
2. The target has to be CCed generally to land the combo
3. DH counters the kitten out it
4. Warrior counters the kitten out of it
5. Engi CAN counter it
6. Thief counters it
7. Necro CAN counter it
8. Theres plenty of reveal in this game
9. Have you heard of random dodging
10. Thank god we’re getting away from condi mesmers

GS stunlock mes is really easy to avoid. If they go stealth they’ll go straight for somebody. Or, if they aren’t stealthed, dodge as soon as they lift their GS up.

Their window of opporunity is evident.

one thief can shutdown power mes whole game……i know 99% of thieves are complete newbies but yeah….

Bursty power mes is a bit too easy to counter to enter the list of cheesy build.

If it is start of the match its most likely due to basilik venom share, which make the team’s opening attack unblockable and stuns. I play GS domi/inspi a lot and daze does not go through blocks.

Your “20k hp 1/2s burst from stealth” also requires GS mes to blow pretty much all offensive CD and half the defensive ones, making them vulnerable to attacks and very little pressure in the next 10-20s. An evade and that mesmer will have to play in defensive.

I would say GS power mes is broken but not in an OP way. What makes it broken is that it’s a great spec with really fun burst material but it lacks the sustain to play seriously. What they ought to do is, lower it’s burst a bit and give it a bit more disengage. Then we’d see a 2nd viable Chrono spec.

Condi thief on the other hand, is just too powerful. I don’t think it’s the condi thief’s fault. It’s that condis are overwhelming within current patching right now. Condi burst builds are able to land twice the damage of any physical burst build in the same amount of time “power shatter mes is the only exception to this”. The guys from Radioactive wrote a post on this not long ago and I absolutely agree with them. Condi bursting is too powerful and it needs to be turned down game wide. We are currently in a condi bursting meta that slightly overrides the play of any bunker or support. If condis are not toned down before PoF, we won’t be seeing peeler or bunker/support roles anyone. The CCs, condi, boon removals will be too overwhelming for any bunker/support/peel to be viable. It’ll just be all about who hits that CC to hit & sit first wins.

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.
2. condi Mesmer, probably the best 1 vs 1 spec in the game.
3. core Guardian, both Power and the burning one.
4. some non Berserker Warriors can also be a real pain in the kitten
5. not sure about bunker rev, i barely see one, maybe once per 20 matches.

There are so many things wrong with the current state of PvP. Meta or on-meta. It feels mostly like a battle of cheeses. Bring one cheesy build to the table. Then bring one another to supposedly counter it and on and on. At the end of the day all we have left is a bunch of annoying and broken cheese.

Thieves or mesmers bursting down people (wearing defensive amulets) from to 100 to 0 within the duration of Basilisk Venom. Guardian trappers and their synergy with tiny circles on every competetive map (why is conquest still the only mode in ranked? is this 2012?). Guardians stacking 16 burns on you in a couple of seconds, get cleansed and then promptly reapplying another 12 stacks after few more seconds. Then we have builds which are immune to damage for extended periods of time. So this brings the whole system to an absurd binary status where you either evade everything or you explode in 2 seconds. The average TTL if you are not protected by some sort of evade/block mechanic is insultingly low. One knockback/stun is very often an instant death sentence. I feel like we are back to 2005 when people 1 or 2-shotted each other in WoW. I though that this design is a thing of a (flawed) past.

Perhaps things in Legendary tier are better (I wouldnt know) but plat and below is full of stupid kitten like meditrappers, pistol thieves, burn guardians and so on. And what is worse, it is super effective (they would not be there if it would not).

Hot Boy.7138:

Daishi.6027:

Hot Boy.7138:

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.

Uhhh it really should be. Unless something triggered your block and you were stunned following it, the evade is only 1/2 second… If it’s a bug might need further testing… that said you might want to double check the evade on offhand sword because that could be bugged too.

Nothing else took the block because it was the start of the match. I grabbed home and he came to take. so just a 1v1 at the beginning. I immediately saw the purple fire and stealth, you know what that means. Some big burst is coming. I wait a bit then use off hand sword block. Off hand’s sword block is relatlively long. 2.5 seconds compared to shield’s 1.5 second. So i’m sure the block was up when I was blown up. I even typed in say chat after saying, “what is block?”. Cause really what is block if it does nothing to mitigate that kind of burst.

I don’t want to dwell on the block though. The point I want to make is that this particular burst combo is broken and shouldn’t even exist even if it is a non meta build. Power shatter gs mesmers can blow up anyone 20k hp and under in 1/2 a second or less from stealth. This build goes under the radar because it’s not used in tournaments that I know of. Nonetheless, burst combos of this scale just shouldn’t be possible.

And I have some pretty crazy burst myself. But it’s through a series of well timed interrupts. And i’m not looking down on players that take this build. The fault is not with them for playing “smart”. The fault is with the people that balance traits, skills, and builds, and classes in general.

Are you sure a thief didn’t share basi venom with the mesmer? You can essentially do your burst combo of mirror blade into mind wrack and mind stab without having to worry about blocks, only invulnerable and evades.

Mesmer as far as I know doesn’t have an unblockable stun or daze, I agree the burst from stealth is cheesy and not fun but then if that fails they’re mostly done for with very few ways to keep up pressure and down a ton of utility if they blinked in.

Also @ the person saying they received a dps buff, they did for PvE but not really in PvP. They got a damage increase at the cost of deceptive evasion but 15% of FA is still FA and still relies on crit chance.

I’d be happy if the burst was toned down and the mesmer given more reliable pressure damage, that would necessitate a redesign of the class at its core to remove phantasms though.

apharma.3741:

Hot Boy.7138:

Daishi.6027:

Hot Boy.7138:

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.

Uhhh it really should be. Unless something triggered your block and you were stunned following it, the evade is only 1/2 second… If it’s a bug might need further testing… that said you might want to double check the evade on offhand sword because that could be bugged too.

Nothing else took the block because it was the start of the match. I grabbed home and he came to take. so just a 1v1 at the beginning. I immediately saw the purple fire and stealth, you know what that means. Some big burst is coming. I wait a bit then use off hand sword block. Off hand’s sword block is relatlively long. 2.5 seconds compared to shield’s 1.5 second. So i’m sure the block was up when I was blown up. I even typed in say chat after saying, “what is block?”. Cause really what is block if it does nothing to mitigate that kind of burst.

I don’t want to dwell on the block though. The point I want to make is that this particular burst combo is broken and shouldn’t even exist even if it is a non meta build. Power shatter gs mesmers can blow up anyone 20k hp and under in 1/2 a second or less from stealth. This build goes under the radar because it’s not used in tournaments that I know of. Nonetheless, burst combos of this scale just shouldn’t be possible.

And I have some pretty crazy burst myself. But it’s through a series of well timed interrupts. And i’m not looking down on players that take this build. The fault is not with them for playing “smart”. The fault is with the people that balance traits, skills, and builds, and classes in general.

Are you sure a thief didn’t share basi venom with the mesmer? You can essentially do your burst combo of mirror blade into mind wrack and mind stab without having to worry about blocks, only invulnerable and evades.

Mesmer as far as I know doesn’t have an unblockable stun or daze, I agree the burst from stealth is cheesy and not fun but then if that fails they’re mostly done for with very few ways to keep up pressure and down a ton of utility if they blinked in.

Also @ the person saying they received a dps buff, they did for PvE but not really in PvP. They got a damage increase at the cost of deceptive evasion but 15% of FA is still FA and still relies on crit chance.

I’d be happy if the burst was toned down and the mesmer given more reliable pressure damage, that would necessitate a redesign of the class at its core to remove phantasms though.

Yeah, it was most likely basilik venom. I didn’t think of that.

Nonetheless, I’m still very much against any combo that can 100 to 0 a person in under half a second.

Awe.1096:

There are so many things wrong with the current state of PvP. Meta or on-meta. It feels mostly like a battle of cheeses. Bring one cheesy build to the table. Then bring one another to supposedly counter it and on and on. At the end of the day all we have left is a bunch of annoying and broken cheese.

it is quotes like this that make me laugh tbh

use 1 cheesy build to counter another etc… you mean like in nearly EVERY pvp game, it is called counter and if there are certain meta builds then ofc people are going to either use them or use the counter

basically people call cheese on any build that kills them usually, condi thief pops and tries to burst you, guess what you can counter or heal through it and he runs away until cd’s are off, even non-bunkers never really die to single burst of a condi thief as long as they react in reasonable time in a 1v1, however a good condi thief will wait until you are engaged and THEN burst you, this isn’t cheese this is someone using the build the right way as a +1

pvp happens in pvp {o.O] oh noes !

OnyX.9027:

Awe.1096:

There are so many things wrong with the current state of PvP. Meta or on-meta. It feels mostly like a battle of cheeses. Bring one cheesy build to the table. Then bring one another to supposedly counter it and on and on. At the end of the day all we have left is a bunch of annoying and broken cheese.

it is quotes like this that make me laugh tbh

use 1 cheesy build to counter another etc… you mean like in nearly EVERY pvp game, it is called counter and if there are certain meta builds then ofc people are going to either use them or use the counter

basically people call cheese on any build that kills them usually, condi thief pops and tries to burst you, guess what you can counter or heal through it and he runs away until cd’s are off, even non-bunkers never really die to single burst of a condi thief as long as they react in reasonable time in a 1v1, however a good condi thief will wait until you are engaged and THEN burst you, this isn’t cheese this is someone using the build the right way as a +1

pvp happens in pvp {o.O] oh noes !

You miss the point completly. A cheesy build is a cheesy build no matter how you try to reason it out. You know why condi thief is cheesy? Not because it brings a lot of cover condis and is tough to counter for several builds. It’s because it often comes down to running to your target and spam 3 until your finger falls off (which provides condition spam and evasion frames). Same deal with burst pistol build though the latter is easier to counter for wider spectrum of players. You know why bunker rev is cheesy? Not because it is tough to kill in many situations but because of the knockback spam. You know why trapper guardian is cheesy? Because you can run to a point, place all your traps on it and things just start to die. I mean, there is a reason why I had my biggest PvP success on aforementioned specs (at least during last 2-3 seasons). Sure, for overlords living in Legendary division some things are easier to counter. But the majority of players have to deal with kitten that is far harder to handle than just by reading an on-line guide. L2P shouts wont help a bit. I actually have quite a bit of respect for good mesmers or warriors, because they need to handle a bit more complex combos to bring someone down (even if that someone in the end did feel helpless). But if a thief runs down to me and presses 3 all day and I cant handle that because I did not bring build that targets his specific vulnerabilities, THAT is a cheese that I am going to be angry about.

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.
2. condi Mesmer, probably the best 1 vs 1 spec in the game.
3. core Guardian, both Power and the burning one.
4. some non Berserker Warriors can also be a real pain in the kitten
5. not sure about bunker rev, i barely see one, maybe once per 20 matches.

i use minion necro+condi hybrid and counter all these easily.
a smart teamplay can counter these stuff.
burn guard is a free kill to anyone with 600 range weapon lol.

ugrakarma.9416:

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.
2. condi Mesmer, probably the best 1 vs 1 spec in the game.
3. core Guardian, both Power and the burning one.
4. some non Berserker Warriors can also be a real pain in the kitten
5. not sure about bunker rev, i barely see one, maybe once per 20 matches.

i use minion necro+condi hybrid and counter all these easily.
a smart teamplay can counter these stuff.
burn guard is a free kill to anyone with 600 range weapon lol.

Are you talking about smart teamplay or do you have in mind 1 vs 1? As condi Thief i eat minion necros for breakfast mano a mano, but it takes a while. But i agree that you can counter condi mesmers and burning guards.
How can a burn Guard be a free kill to anyone with 600 range weapon (i don’t see any logic here, i guess you mean kiting them?), if Guardian’s scepter is 900 range in case that range weapon is needed? You know that scepter can be very powerful condi weapon?

The problem with that GS Mesmer build is really simple, it does that damage coming out of stealth. Meaning you can’t see it coming. And yep it does like 22k dmg in around 2seconds that you have no time to counter. Unlikely Anet will ever change it though.

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.

I haven’t seen anyone call p/d broken recently. Would you mind elaborating on why p/d is broken in your opinion? I find it to be a fair, balanced, and difficult to master set.

Aza.2105:

The problem with that GS Mesmer build is really simple, it does that damage coming out of stealth. Meaning you can’t see it coming. And yep it does like 22k dmg in around 2seconds that you have no time to counter. Unlikely Anet will ever change it though.

After it does that 1 burst combo the Mesmer has to wind up again for another one so if it misses or wasn’t hitting hard enough then the mes is usually a free kill or it’s out of the fight for 15s or so. Usually playing a Berserker/Marauder Ammy, should be free food to any thief with a fraction of a brain.

Sontaran.5904:

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.

I haven’t seen anyone call p/d broken recently. Would you mind elaborating on why p/d is broken in your opinion? I find it to be a fair, balanced, and difficult to master set.

Not as broken as d/d. But it depends how do you play it: if you get that Trait which cause Poison on Immobilize, you have much easier job, as your main source of dmg AND cc at the same time is #2 (Body Shot) + Venoms. If you rely on #3 (shadow Strike) and Traps you have much harder time.
But then why would you only focus on one weapon set if you can equip both: d/d and p/d? SB is not that mandatory anyway. It’s highly recommended but i drop it sometimes for p/d offset as my main weapon set is always d/d.
Also there is an act of surprise included: no one would expect you to play with p/d

That Mesmer build is simple to deal with. You just need to understand the counterplay.

1st map awareness is important, they can’t perma stealth. If they snuck up on you without you noticing that’s them outplaying you. Keep the mesmer targeted, if they stealth your target will drop and you’ll know they stealthed.

While they are stealthed you give up space to deny them value. As long as you are moving away, you’ll have more time to react to mirror blade too, because it has travel distance.

In case you don’t have stability or blocks available keep your fingers ready to stun break and dodge. Even a thief can react with a break and dodge and still survive with how squishy they are, again so long as you’re creating space so that mirror blade takes more time to travel.

Finally after you survive the initial stealth burst, heal up, and start fighting them as you would any other power mesmer. They won’t have the same kind of disengage, because they are probably running GS/S+T and mantra.

It’s a strong engage for sure, but dealing with it is pretty simple. Create space and react to the mirror blade projectile from stealth. Also, once they use their stealth mirror blade becomes incredibly easy to react to because of the obvious animation.

A lot of these people will not agree with you because they can only see this from their point of view. The problem is there are a few builds that are easy to play and absolutely dominate the mid to low tiers of pvp. Like trap guardian, mesmer in general, thieves and necros. They are very forgiving classes but once you get to higher tiers they become free kills.

This is a much larger issue than people think because those new players that’s all the builds they see. They get crushed by them and then try them and then start crushing other new players. Its a cycle and what you end up with is what we have now where the lower ladders and a toxic pool of bad players with bad builds who think their much better than they are.

Basically it´s realy easy in most cases. Map awareness, good positioning and fast reaction. But as Law said this is nothing a new player can handle. I needed over 100 matches to play PvP to a reasonable level and 1000 to say i am good with ONE class.
The list can be covered by one thing, instant dodge…. I can doge into the mesmer when i see him pop, instadoge backwards when i trigger a trap, i roll to the side when a thief jumps in ….. and i often reactively swap to trigger a sigil in addition to the dodge … This is not the case for real bronze and silver players, they die. And we don´t talk about reading oponents actions and instablind, block or stun reactively … A new player can´t even read the condibars well. Even after two years I still have a hard time tracking both condi bars, which can also mean life or death if you blow a cleanse wrong …

Sifu.9745:

Sontaran.5904:

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.

I haven’t seen anyone call p/d broken recently. Would you mind elaborating on why p/d is broken in your opinion? I find it to be a fair, balanced, and difficult to master set.

Not as broken as d/d. But it depends how do you play it: if you get that Trait which cause Poison on Immobilize, you have much easier job, as your main source of dmg AND cc at the same time is #2 (Body Shot) + Venoms. If you rely on #3 (shadow Strike) and Traps you have much harder time.
But then why would you only focus on one weapon set if you can equip both: d/d and p/d? SB is not that mandatory anyway. It’s highly recommended but i drop it sometimes for p/d offset as my main weapon set is always d/d.
Also there is an act of surprise included: no one would expect you to play with p/d

So it isn’t OP? After all, you seem to think part of its advantage is the surprise of people playing it.

I main P/D so I see a few of these “offset p/d players” around. Exciting for me but they usually haven’t practiced the P/D side enough to handle fighting it. Mostly it comes down to the odds of facing P/D. So few run it so even playing it as an offset isn’t enough experience to fight it consistently.

I run into P/P thief about three times as often as P/D. Mostly I run into D/P and Staff Daredevils. D/D is still the majority of condi builds. S/X has taken over maybe 25%-35% of condi builds but isn’t the majority.

Oh, and Body Shot is pretty slow. Good against close up targets and those already immobilized. That said, a few shots of it will use up all your initiative and those shots can be avoided at long range simply by strafing.

Shadow Strike is strong but is a melee strike. A well timed stun will work because if I’m in range you are in range. And the same is true for CnD which costs a lot of initiative and awards one stack of stealth.

Played well, the set will freeze you in place, teleport out of reach, cripple and torment and bleed you while poisoning you. All of that requires precision and outplaying your opponent at every single step, however. So I’d say it isn’t OP any more than D/P.

D/P if you play perfectly is considered by many best in class. But I’ll destroy any D/P user who isn’t playing mechanically well. Likewise, if a D/P user who knows how to fight tries to kill me they probably can if they are mechanically superior. Ultimately, I think D/P and P/D are roughly the same difficulty to master—although the payoff for D/P is probably stronger at the same skill level.

Sure it is annoying when you are involved in a larger scale battle for mid or something like that and from stealth you all of a sudden take 15k dmg.

But the mesmer is using his mirror blade, his mind wrack, a charge of his mantra of distraction, has traited for the stun and probably used either a blink or stealth from prestige/decoy to set it up. Maybe even a mirror images or continuum split.

It is a lot of investment and if you see it coming and avoid it he’s most likely looking to kite around for 12 seconds whilst his wrack recharges, burning through his defensive CD’s, shield block, blurred frenzy, invuln, stealth/teleports.

He is a walking kill for any decent DD, DH, Warrior

Sifu.9745:

Sontaran.5904:

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.

I haven’t seen anyone call p/d broken recently. Would you mind elaborating on why p/d is broken in your opinion? I find it to be a fair, balanced, and difficult to master set.

Not as broken as d/d. But it depends how do you play it: if you get that Trait which cause Poison on Immobilize, you have much easier job, as your main source of dmg AND cc at the same time is #2 (Body Shot) + Venoms. If you rely on #3 (shadow Strike) and Traps you have much harder time.
But then why would you only focus on one weapon set if you can equip both: d/d and p/d? SB is not that mandatory anyway. It’s highly recommended but i drop it sometimes for p/d offset as my main weapon set is always d/d.
Also there is an act of surprise included: no one would expect you to play with p/d

Body shot only has limited uses, but you have to use SB in pvp to quickly decap. I ran p/d with SB and dash in pvp last night and had a lot of wins. I wasn’t getting as many kills as I would playing d/d or s/d Condi, but I was contributing to the team the same way a d/p dash power thief would and it helped us win. I was able to win 1v1 when I needed to and had mobility to run away as well. I played with DA over SA, so I had a little less stealth but more damage.

Sifu.9745:

ugrakarma.9416:

Sifu.9745:

Here is mine list on non-meta “broken” builds:
1. condi Thief d/d or p/d.
2. condi Mesmer, probably the best 1 vs 1 spec in the game.
3. core Guardian, both Power and the burning one.
4. some non Berserker Warriors can also be a real pain in the kitten
5. not sure about bunker rev, i barely see one, maybe once per 20 matches.

i use minion necro+condi hybrid and counter all these easily.
a smart teamplay can counter these stuff.
burn guard is a free kill to anyone with 600 range weapon lol.

Are you talking about smart teamplay or do you have in mind 1 vs 1? As condi Thief i eat minion necros for breakfast mano a mano, but it takes a while. But i agree that you can counter condi mesmers and burning guards.
How can a burn Guard be a free kill to anyone with 600 range weapon (i don’t see any logic here, i guess you mean kiting them?), if Guardian’s scepter is 900 range in case that range weapon is needed? You know that scepter can be very powerful condi weapon?

Guards.
Scepter dont do much damage and is very slow. Most of Burn Guards damage come from purging flames and some specific combos. The trapper ones is even worse, i kill most guards applying condis on them while they just expect me jump into their traps. When they realize that i will dont jump into the trap area is too late. Also minions activate all their traps and transfer burn back to guard. Remenber that Scepter/Dagger necro is mid ranged.

Thievs: most of they atacks are single target, necro keep moving applying condis on them while they try kill the minions. To counter condi-minion-necro they should be really fast enough to apply condi on necros and avoid minions. but only extremely skilled thievs can do this.

Law.1704:

A lot of these people will not agree with you because they can only see this from their point of view. The problem is there are a few builds that are easy to play and absolutely dominate the mid to low tiers of pvp. Like … mesmer in general…

Thank You that gave me a chuckle. Please do give Mesmer a try. In particular, try a power burst Mesmer on GS. I suspect you’ll need to restate your opinion.

GS Power Mesmer is underpowered vs. DPS specs.
GS Power Mesmer is strong as all hell against anything that is supposed to be bunker.
Bunkers can’t deal the DPS they need to pressure the Mesmer.
The Mesmer however, can stealth 1 shot bunkers.

Again, more lopsided balance. Power Mesmer not broken in the aspect of being OP.
It’s broken that the spec isn’t more balanced in general for its role & purpose.
It either gets immediate stomped or immediate stomps something else.
It’s a volatile spec and I wouldn’t necessarily call it high risk high reward.
I would more refer to it as a suicide bomb build.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

GS Power Mesmer is underpowered vs. DPS specs.
GS Power Mesmer is strong as all hell against anything that is supposed to be bunker.
Bunkers can’t deal the DPS they need to pressure the Mesmer.
The Mesmer however, can stealth 1 shot bunkers.

Again, more lopsided balance. Power Mesmer not broken in the aspect of being OP.
I would more refer to it as a suicide bomb build.

Power GS Mesmer is high risk and only moderate reward. If Mesmer were to receive another significant damage nerf, it would once again be trash tier. ( As it was literally for years. )

It is not the fault of Mesmers that others are unwilling to learn to play against them. I think your last sentence is the most honest. I, for one , think that committing suicide is not an effective tactic for regular use in PvP.

Hot Boy.7138:

Daishi.6027:

Hot Boy.7138:

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.

Uhhh it really should be. Unless something triggered your block and you were stunned following it, the evade is only 1/2 second… If it’s a bug might need further testing… that said you might want to double check the evade on offhand sword because that could be bugged too.

Nothing else took the block because it was the start of the match. I grabbed home and he came to take. so just a 1v1 at the beginning. I immediately saw the purple fire and stealth, you know what that means. Some big burst is coming. I wait a bit then use off hand sword block. Off hand’s sword block is relatlively long. 2.5 seconds compared to shield’s 1.5 second. So i’m sure the block was up when I was blown up. I even typed in say chat after saying, “what is block?”. Cause really what is block if it does nothing to mitigate that kind of burst.

I don’t want to dwell on the block though. The point I want to make is that this particular burst combo is broken and shouldn’t even exist even if it is a non meta build. Power shatter gs mesmers can blow up anyone 20k hp and under in 1/2 a second or less from stealth. This build goes under the radar because it’s not used in tournaments that I know of. Nonetheless, burst combos of this scale just shouldn’t be possible.

And I have some pretty crazy burst myself. But it’s through a series of well timed interrupts. And i’m not looking down on players that take this build. The fault is not with them for playing “smart”. The fault is with the people that balance traits, skills, and builds, and classes in general.

I experienced the same thing.

My marauder engi got 100-> 0 twice by GS shatter mesmer within 0.5 second of the encounter from range. I was instantly downed as soon as he starts his combo with no chance to react to it. Ik it’s my learn to play issue to not foresee that combo and dodge randomly before engage, but any build that can do this 100-> 0 within 0.5 second is super unhealthy for the game.

I thought Thief burst was nerfed because of that back then, how come they let it return through new Mesmer shatter buff?