Guild Wars 2

Main account been stuck in Emerald since Wednesday. Noob account to Sapphire in a day and a half. Many matches I got 2 pips and a couple matches I got 3 pips.

Noob account has no HoT, no lvl 80, no rank 80, no champ title, no fancy legendaries, no fancy skins, no love from me. In fact, I even requested a password reset coz I forgot what it was.

My main account however went through so many consecutive losses I just stopped logging on to it.

How the hell did my neglected, forgotten account effortlessly coast through Emerald division and now Sapphire while main account forever stuck in tier 1 Emerald?

Don’t say luck, I don’t think that had anything to do with it. Well, maybe bad luck on main account. But still……

If you hadn’t played ranked on your alt account before when it was available, chances are it had an arbitrarily low starting value for MMR, which would make sense for completely new players. Hence, in going into matches, you’re expected to be terrible and lose every match by 500-10. Going and actually winning instead is giving you a huge number of points every match.

It’ll even out eventually when your MMR finally settles to where it should be.

Pimsley.3681:

Main account been stuck in Emerald since Wednesday. Noob account to Sapphire in a day and a half. Many matches I got 2 pips and a couple matches I got 3 pips.

Yes, that’s how the system is working.

Your main account has a steady MMR and your are going to face opponents of about your own mmr. Your winrate will be about 50% and climbing up the league will take a lot of time.

Your new account as a very low MMR. The system predicts you to not win with that huge lead, maybe that you sometimes even should loose.

“Exceeding the expectation” of the MMR system is what let you climb up the ladder. (This principle is also the background of the system abuse via MMR tanking and the already fixed creating of new guild teams. Which btw got abused by some ESL teams, mainly in NA.)

Pubstomping Smurf account :P maybe GW2 really is going to be the next League of Legends.

You get punished for playing the game longer and supporting the gem store. Wow you guys, that sounds like really shoddy programming.

I bought the account for $10, I think back in 2013. It was rank 23 when I logged on to it yesterday.

Oh and my teammates from the noob account were not clueless. It was so refreshing because I get the some of the worst teammates (except for the one that frequent the forum, wink) on my main.

That’s how the cookie crumbles. The higher your MMR when you SoloQ, the harder time you will have. Low to no MMR people with less than 1/10 the pvp experience I have are boasting about reaching ruby.

Lol just lol.

‘Its how it’s supposed to work’

No it’s anet failing to imagine and encouraging behaviour counter to what pvp should be about (tanking).

Bad Design = Bad Results.
Wont say any more.

Ended up alongside OP’s team a couple times so far this season. He has a deep understanding of the class he brings to matches and is a hustler with map rotations.

The few times I went against him, his teammates were absolute garbage. It’s sad that they belong to the same Emerald division as he does even when their skill sets are vastly apart. It’s even sadder when lesser-skilled people are in higher divisions.

I noticed this too. Was it not the intention of league divisions to be a visual representation of someone’s actual PvP skill in comparison to the rest of the PvP community rather than a measure of how well people are exceeding beyond the expectations of their personal mmr?

It’s a measure of most improved over the season.
Not a measure of an individual’s ability – especially if solo Q.

Are you sure that was intentional though and not just the effect of the current system? I mean why would anyone care about how anyone else’s excelling beyond how well the game expected them to perform? Much less create a league based upon the concept.

Your alt account is an outlier. Most people with a low match play in SPvP aren’t dragons on another account so it doesn’t start catching on until you play enough matches. The longer you play SPvP you will eventually settle out very close to a 50% win rate. I took the data from the to 1000 players. After about 300 matched played the number of people with >60% win rate (3 wins every 5 matches) went down significantly. Their algorithm is very good at making even teams.

This is a problem for the high MMR people as far as getting ruby and higher. Anyone at the top of the leader board is going to have long odds getting there because they won’t be pitted against poor teams.

I attached a chart showing win % vs. matched played for the top 1k players. All the curves except the players with less than 300 matches fall tightly around the 50% win rate.

Matches Played     Total Players     Total >60% wins
50-299                          275                           14
300-549                        541                           13 
550-799                        131                             4
800-1049                       35                              0
1050-1299                     13                              1                            
1300-1550                       5                              0

Of course its an outlier. The majority perform at their mmr, and aren’t going to excel significantly above how well the game expects them to perform without resorting to creating new accounts or joining pre-mades to have potential non-game inclusive advantages such as TS. At a 50% win rate, how does one theoretically progress in a league based upon excelling beyond your personal mmr without resorting to one of the above to artifically boost your achievement above your expected mmr? It just seems odd that league progression is based upon a variable like personal mmr.

Riya.2678:

Was it not the intention of league divisions to be a visual representation of someone’s actual PvP skill in comparison to the rest of the PvP community […]

It will never be this. You are 1 out of 5 players. You rely on 4 players beside you being relatively decent. In no way can Leagues or even the MMR, in parts, truly measure how good you are as a PvP player, because you rely on four other players to not be completely garbage and actually play to the objective(s).

E.g., there are so many people who neglect to help a bunker when they call out that opponents are invading their space (I’ve been on points barely juggling 2-3 players for up to four-five minutes on occasion.. while some of my team fights off point with someone else and others are at least trying to cap something but failing). There are so many people who fight off point. There are so many people who when “camping” close with no opposition, don’t do simple things such as rotating to mid/far/objective when applicable, if someone else on the team has just died (as they will respawn soon, and can rotate into close if needed). There are so many people who seem allergic to using /team chat. There are so many people who will run one by one into a team and just feed them kills. And these are the kinds of people who causes you to lose. Which in no way is your fault truth be told. No matter how good a player is, they can not carry four bad ones. It won’t happen in most scenarios. Unless perhaps if the opponent team is really bad.

So while I queued solo the entire way to Sapphire (and that feels like an “entire way” when facing premade after premade, for the most part—Please, implement the Solo Queue again, Anet!), that was not because I was a great player. That was because I had good/great random team mates, I had on occasion great teams, that actually played the objectives instead of having some of us kittening around off points and not supporting where needed. So all in all, my [III] badge, and while it’s not the biggest accomplishment ever, is not a testament to me having gained Sapphire as a PvP player. It’s a testament to every random individual that has been a part of each of the wins I experienced as I climbed my Tiers, lost and gained Pips. I would like to think I contributed a small part on my own of course, but I was 1 out of 5.

PS: I would very much like to Group Queue, ArenaNet, but I refuse to do so without you separating Solo- and Group Queue (—you should be able to queue solo into Group Queue to fill 4+1 scenarios mind you, otherwise matching 2+3 and/or 5 together, but Solo Queue should only match 1+1+1+1+1 teams). There has been so many nice players who has asked me to join up for premades, which I have felt I have to decline, because I feel like I’d be a rotten hypocrite if I complain about the lack of Solo Queue, but then go ahead and play with good PvP players in a premade, so we indirectly end up with matches where we just stomp randoms. Please reinstate the Solo Queue so I can actually have some grouped fun too, without feeling like I earn pips for little effort (every so often).

According to Arenanet:
“It isn’t enough to be one of the best if nobody knows it, so leagues will offer you badges for your nameplate. Crossing over into a higher division will upgrade your badge so that every Tyrian can admire your talents in combat. It’s important that seeing someone with a high-ranked badge means that person is currently a top player, so badges are earned for each league season”
Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-pvp-leagues/

As the OP demonstrated, it’s easier to outperform lower expectations (low mmr) than it is to outperform high expectations (high mmr). But being branded as top players for outperforming your personal mmr more? Really?

If you look at the numbers, even the top players are just barely above a 50% win rate on average. At some point up the ladder people will all be using voice coms and have good players on their premade teams. Also, the more matches you have on average, the harder it is going to be to skew your stats by losing on purpose. The only viable way I see is to get the higher tiers on your main is to team with a couple low MMR people in a premade. More likely, your high MMR friends on their alt account.

Riya.2678:

Of course its an outlier. The majority perform at their mmr, and aren’t going to excel significantly above how well the game expects them to perform without resorting to creating new accounts or joining pre-mades to have potential non-game inclusive advantages such as TS. At a 50% win rate, how does one theoretically progress in a league based upon excelling beyond your personal mmr without resorting to one of the above to artifically boost your achievement above your expected mmr? It just seems odd that league progression is based upon a variable like personal mmr.

skullfaerie.7203:

Well. I have friends who barely pvp and who I promise you aren’t particularly good at it (to just be blunt about it) who comfortably reached Sapphire with no issues. Meanwhile, significantly more experienced and skilled players are struggling. Something’s pretty wrong with that, imo.

What’s wrong is the lack of an MMR reset at the beginning of this league or lack of decay from those who haven’t played in awhile.

So ,in conclusion every guild should have players with alt account lowering their chances to win and rewards)))
Yeah another exploit …

I made it to saphire yesterdey after 5h of struggle.
Acctually i had suprising 10-1 win string and made 2 tiers really fast(i think this is due to my previous day 0-5 win so i got easier oponents) and than last tier was horendous strugle .

Four hours forward and back,i even joind one team, we won previous fight with ,but its a double edge since we were pited against full premade but with voice com and better coordination.
To add to this, captain of our team insisted on 2point fights, and ppl just throw them self at mid constatly diyng.
After second match i went back to solo.

I just have to say this, last match that won me saphire was really epic ..
We were losing 250-20 or somthing and i tought not again but then ,we just found right team combo to ,who will su[pport wh will stay and def and won 500-320.

Im really happy that no 1 gave up,there were no rants and bad language we just kept playing,and than i tought that some1 went afk for other team and throw match but other team denied it…

Faux Play.6104:

Your alt account is an outlier.

So he was lucky on his alt account?

Faux Play.6104:

This is a problem for the high MMR people as far as getting ruby and higher.

But then you say it affects people at higher ranks? Which his alt account isn’t.

So the OP’s post still stands? It’s easier to get to Sapphire on a new account then an established one.

I think what your arguing is that your going to struggle when you get to a higher division. But even then tanking your mmr before making big pushes or getting premade teams to include a newb account that drags down their mmr are still viable ways to bypass the system.

Effectively the average soloQ player that does their best, who don’t tank, form a premade or manipulate the system are going to be punished the most. Which I think is what most people are complaining about.

You are misinterpreting what I’m saying. His alt account is an outlier because most people with a low number of PvP matches don’t have the skills of an experienced player.

Once someone plays enough matches it knows how to rate them so that they end up winning approximately 50% of their matches. The alt account hasn’t played enough matches to get binned against the right opponents.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

Faux Play.6104:

Your alt account is an outlier.

So he was lucky on his alt account?

Faux Play.6104:

This is a problem for the high MMR people as far as getting ruby and higher.

But then you say it affects people at higher ranks? Which his alt account isn’t.

So the OP’s post still stands? It’s easier to get to Sapphire on a new account then an established one.

I think what your arguing is that your going to struggle when you get to a higher division. But even then tanking your mmr before making big pushes or getting premade teams to include a newb account that drags down their mmr are still viable ways to bypass the system.

Effectively the average soloQ player that does their best, who don’t tank, form a premade or manipulate the system are going to be punished the most. Which I think is what most people are complaining about.

If that is really how the system works its kind of strange. Its like there are two ranking systems working in parallel and essentially cancelling each other out.

Wouldn’t it be more logical to use the new system without considering MMR? Then naturally players more skilled or in teams would get to higher tiers and play each other, while people with less skill/teamwork will have more difficulty gaining rank.

Reset everyone to zero at the start of every season and we all have a chance at climbing the ladder again.

Why would you make it so good players have a harder time gaining rank than bad players? Makes little sense to me.

The noob account made it to Ruby effortlessly after 5 days in Sapphire. Since it’s a neglected account, I really only log on to it because I couldn’t take the losing streaks on my main account anymore.

Core builds don’t do so well in Ruby. Noob account doesn’t have expac and there’s no way in hell I would upgrade after seeing how messed up the leagues are.

My main account that is still stuck in Emerald have more wins than my noob account in Ruby.

The faster way to get out of Emerald is to not get into a losing streak when you are 1-2 pips away from next tier or division.

Time your losing streaks when you’re at the bottom of a tier w/ no pips to lose.

It’s junk, this league. There are people in Ruby who honestly belong in Emerald, maybe even Amber.

Vapour.7348:

The faster way to get out of Emerald is to not get into a losing streak when you are 1-2 pips away from next tier or division.

Time your losing streaks when you’re at the bottom of a tier w/ no pips to lose.

It’s junk, this league. There are people in Ruby who honestly belong in Emerald, maybe even Amber.

Implying we’ll have a choice otherwise if we SoloQ or won’t be subject to horrible matchups. I had a team with two thieves earlier the matchmaking should really take class into account.

Agemnon.4608:

Vapour.7348:

The faster way to get out of Emerald is to not get into a losing streak when you are 1-2 pips away from next tier or division.

Time your losing streaks when you’re at the bottom of a tier w/ no pips to lose.

It’s junk, this league. There are people in Ruby who honestly belong in Emerald, maybe even Amber.

Implying we’ll have a choice otherwise if we SoloQ or won’t be subject to horrible matchups. I had a team with two thieves earlier the matchmaking should really take class into account.

I hate having 2 thieves. I started a thread about that a long time ago. If you sense you’re in a losing streak, play in unranked for a bit. That’s what I do based on how bad the teammates are or if we are against a premade our solo team has little chance of beating.

Vapour.7348:

Agemnon.4608:

Vapour.7348:

The faster way to get out of Emerald is to not get into a losing streak when you are 1-2 pips away from next tier or division.

Time your losing streaks when you’re at the bottom of a tier w/ no pips to lose.

It’s junk, this league. There are people in Ruby who honestly belong in Emerald, maybe even Amber.

Implying we’ll have a choice otherwise if we SoloQ or won’t be subject to horrible matchups. I had a team with two thieves earlier the matchmaking should really take class into account.

I hate having 2 thieves. I started a thread about that a long time ago. If you sense you’re in a losing streak, play in unranked for a bit. That’s what I do based on how bad the teammates are or if we are against a premade our solo team has little chance of beating.

Uggh, me too. I even had teams with two warriors before, not today but did. It’s like the game’s matchmaking algoritm’s way of saying it hates me.

Faux Play.6104:

His alt account is an outlier because most people with a low number of PvP matches don’t have the skills of an experienced player.

That’s an assumption.

Additionally people can be veteran PvE players or WvW players who dable in PvP, but have hit it up hardcore since Leagues come out. Perhaps they haven’t played PvP in a long time and their MMR dropped, but they’re good players.

I’d actually argue that your assumption is why we have some of the current problems in the first place.

You would think having a higher MMR would put you with better players. Not worse. Ive been fighting my last tier of sapphire for 3 days now. Up to 4 pips. Down to none. Its crazy frustrating. Ive had 3 games just today where players were tanking my games. And not by standing in base to be reported. But by running straight into 4v1 over and over and over like a kitten bot. or leaving base and standing around until they see another teammate. Then they act like they are gonna do something. I have to be honest. Ive been playing SPvP since launch. And this is the first time i dont want to play it anymore. Half the time players dont even respond in chat prior to match start to attempt to organize.

Death Aggro.9602:

But by running straight into 4v1 over and over and over like a kitten bot. or leaving base and standing around until they see another teammate.

These two statements seem contradictory. Do you have suggestions for these players? If a player is standing around waiting for a teammate to respawn, isn’t that because the rest of the team is all spread out and dying and it makes no sense for that single guy to go 4v1 a point?

TPMN.1483:

Bad Design = Bad Results.
Wont say any more.

It’s not bad design. There just simply is no way to fix smurf accounts.

It’s not technologically possible for the matchmaker to tell the difference between a new player on a new account, and a experienced player on a alt account.
Yet at the same time the matchmaker has to put new accounts somewhere, and it just makes sense given that the majority of new accounts are new players to put said new accounts at the bottom of the MMR.

Chaba.5410:

Death Aggro.9602:

But by running straight into 4v1 over and over and over like a kitten bot. or leaving base and standing around until they see another teammate.

These two statements seem contradictory. Do you have suggestions for these players? If a player is standing around waiting for a teammate to respawn, isn’t that because the rest of the team is all spread out and dying and it makes no sense for that single guy to go 4v1 a point?

Sigh its intentional. Ive seen several people with an open home point just standing around. Nobody there. Easily capable and standing right around the corner. Im not talking about people waiting for back up obviously. Isnt that common sense for you? Why on earth would i complain about someone doing something right? Some people….

The noob account isn’t new nor was it free. I paid a good $10 for it!!! Thought it was a bargain because I get 5 character slots for the price of 1. However, I forgot to factor in the inconvenience of being in a separate account.

Couple of guys in-game suggest that I tank the MMR of this account because it’s the best option. Im sure they had good intent and Im not going to judge them for going that route. I’m just too lazy to attempt it and would rather queue with my alt to play for real. Both accounts I queue ranked solo.

It’s crazy though, how my ruby account has gotten 3 pips from 2 matches while main has gotten 3 pips in 4 matches yet still in lowbie division. The system doesn’t think Im good enough to leave Emerald. Guess it’s time I try to git gud.

Death Aggro.9602:

Chaba.5410:

Death Aggro.9602:

But by running straight into 4v1 over and over and over like a kitten bot. or leaving base and standing around until they see another teammate.

These two statements seem contradictory. Do you have suggestions for these players? If a player is standing around waiting for a teammate to respawn, isn’t that because the rest of the team is all spread out and dying and it makes no sense for that single guy to go 4v1 a point?

Sigh its intentional. Ive seen several people with an open home point just standing around. Nobody there. Easily capable and standing right around the corner. Im not talking about people waiting for back up obviously. Isnt that common sense for you? Why on earth would i complain about someone doing something right? Some people….

Relax. It was just a question to elicit constructive discussion.