Guild Wars 2

Example

You recently updated Spinal Shivers.

• Spinal Shivers: This ability now deals bonus damage for each boon that it removes. One boon removed deals 50% extra damage, two boons deals 100% extra, and three boons removed will grant an extra 150% damage to the ability.

A non-counterable damage boost that only affects 1 ability. What else could have been done? (Still can)

• Spinal Shivers: This ability now grants Might for each boon that it removes. One boon removed grants 1 Might (5s) , two boons removed grants 2 Might (5s), and three boons removed will grant 3 Might (5s).

This would have improved Scepter/Focus builds and other condition/hybrid based builds rather than just improving a single skill: Spinal Shivers. It would have been a minimal boost to build variety, but a boost to many builds nonetheless.

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• Reaper’s Touch: Can inflict a total of 12 Vulnerability. This used to be a maximum of 10 Vulnerability but was buffed a few patches ago to inflict a possible 12 instead.

This was not a flat damage increase, which is good.

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We want to see more thought process on changes like this.
It’s great that you thought, “Hey, people are complaining about Spinal Shivers cast time. Let’s do something about it.” But you didn’t think about it enough.

You said it yourself that there needs to be more viable builds. Let’s make it happen.
With every class.

A good first step would be to revert the 50%, 100%, 150% damage boost patch and give it Might instead which affects both power and condition builds and makes everyone happy.

There needs to be more of, “Do this, receive that. Opponent can counter by doing this. You can counter by doing that.” An opponent can’t counter a straight 150% damage boost. An opponent can counter a stack of 1-3 Might by corrupting it, removing it, stealing it or simply defending against it.

Might would directly affect every other skill and maybe they just wanted to boast one skill?

There is your thread right there…

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Might would directly affect every other skill and maybe they just wanted to boast one skill?

There is your thread right there…

Perhaps you should consider the overall message behind this thread, rather than criticizing the example.

I’ll bold it in the quote.

We want to see more thought process on changes like this.

It’s great that you thought, “Hey, people are complaining about Spinal Shivers cast time. Let’s do something about it.” But you didn’t think about it enough.

You said it yourself that there needs to be more viable builds. Let’s make it happen.
With every class.

A good first step would be to revert the 50%, 100%, 150% damage boost patch and give it Might instead which affects both power and condition builds and makes everyone happy.

There needs to be more of, “Do this, receive that. Opponent can counter by doing this. You can counter by doing that.” An opponent can’t counter a straight 150% damage boost. An opponent can counter a stack of 1-3 Might by corrupting it, removing it or stealing it.

tl;dr combat depth and the ability to react and counter

A flat damage boost buffs a single ability. Applying might makes it synergize better with other weapons and other builds, leading to more variability. A flat damage boost can not be countered, but a boon can be.

I don’t play a Necro, but I feel like that change makes it depend way too heavily on boons. It feels like the skill is now in a position where it will both rock and suck. I think it would be better to get an unconditional boost in combination with a smaller conditional boost, so that it can be more meaningful in other situations, especially in pve, where you won’t usually find enemies with three boons. In fact, in pve, “remove a boon” is already a conditional effect, so I don’t think any skill should rely so heavily on something situational, unless it’s an utility. It feels like “hey, remember this skill that is only good in this situation? It’s even better at it now, but it’s still the same for everything else”. And it’s not like 3 boons was ever a weak conditional effect, in the first place.

But again, I don’t play a Necro, so this is simply my perception of it.

The depth is now you want to save it for when it really matters. Honestly in the current state, there is minimal depth across the game. Players spam skills on cd and there is no drawback to that play style. Now you might say, hey I can get more damage if condition x is true. Then I will save this skill for when it should actually be used. It makes that skill’s play more defined because it is now conditionally better if you play it better.

And my point before was maybe might would over power the rest of the bar, so they avoided that route. Take ele for example, a lot of its combos can give like a might stack or 3 in random combinations. People figured out how to maximize the might and now you have eles getting double digit might stacks, meaning they can have the same power as someone who builds for offense while actually building into defense. Not much “skill” in this type of play.
tldr: flat might is a more lazy fix than single skill damage boast and can spiral out of control. Might would power entire weapon set, not just a weaker skill on the set.

Thank you, Larynx, for clarifying.

The thing with 1-3 stacks of Might vs 50%-150% damage is that 3 Might is only 105 power and 105 condition damage (For conditions, that’s like 7 more damage). This is much less than 150% damage but it would last longer (5s in example) and would affect more abilities, giving the same result that 150% damage does, but creating more variety for the effect.

As it is after the patch, Spinal Shivers will now do 2K damage (my build) if 3 boons are removed, instead of 1K damage if none are removed. 1,000 damage increase. That is instantly more powerful and non-counterable. 3 Might for 5 seconds would go with the attrition aspect of the Necromancer being stronger over time, allowing the Necromancer to have a 105 Power/ConDmg boost for 5 seconds, which is counterable and is more balanced than a flat damage increase.

I still support that this game can become esports… but this can only happen if the developers create more combat depth, as Larynx said. As it is right now, you are right… players more or less just spam their abilities.

Reaper’s Touch – Necromancer Focus skill #4.
This skill applies Vulnerability which increases damage for all allies. This skill was buffed a few patches earlier to give 12 Vulnerability instead of 10. This was not a flat damage increase. This is the same idea that gaining Might with Spinal Shivers would be. It has a counter and is not just “Boosted damage.”

How is 2% more damage not a flat damage increase… Its 2% more…more

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

How is 2% more damage not a flat damage increase… Its 2% more…more

It is not a 2% flat damage increase to the damage of the ability, but rather a 2% damage increase effect for all hits during the duration of the condition.

It is simply another version of the example in the OP. Might translates to a damage boost, but it is not a direct damage increase to the buffed ability.

Exactly. You are able to do 2% more damage for a few seconds but the opponent is able to counter that damage. Increasing the flat damage by 2% cannot be countered.

Bump because I want Anet to make this game esports. Esports require strategy.

The counter is use less boons, then you will take less damage. There aren’t many counters to boons in this game outside of necros.