Guild Wars 2

So I spent a few hours hunting down videos of ArenaNet staff playing sPvP in GW2. Some of the them new and some old. I watched them then I watched again and again, noting the best I could the circumstances they were up against and their choice of skill execution and also their movement patterns.

My conclusion is the staff that developed this game are pretty horrible at their own product. Now the balance problems make more sense, technically they can’t even properly play the game they produced.

Of course what this really tells us is something ArenaNet admitted in the weeks prior to release in late August, that they had been so busy trying to put the final polish on that they had not played the game all that much.

Guild Wars 2 has all of the problems associated with game products rushed to market. When this happens it’s ugly. Like serving a half-baked cake at a five star restaurant. No one with any integrity will forgive you because your standards should have been higher. Failure is failure. Regardless of how hard a game studio works post release the product can not be saved. MMOs stand a better chance perhaps than most, but unless ArenaNet had spectacular
box sales in December then I think it’s window has closed and it’s done. Even MMOs have to grab public interest or they begin declining.

The ugly truth is, four months after release and PvP is still a unfinished mess. So sad what a waste. What a talentless bunch of developers. It’s like they were given the blueprint to create the most innovative sPvP every to grace an MMO and they completely kitten it away. So sad.

in the words of many on the forums who have said it time and time again “l2p”….can i get an AMEN!!

Reading comprehension gets you far in life.

Making a game doesn’t make you good at it. You know the behind the scenes, but it doesn’t make you any better at the game than someone who dedicates themselves to getting better at it.

Now, if you want to adhere to the GW2 Balance team or whatnot, you realize that the people who theorycraft the builds that most people use are doing the same things that the people who are balancing the game are doing.

The people who are balancing the game are looking at lots of variations of skills and combinations. It’s not possible to find every combination, therefore a game will have issues, and it’s better to tweak things to get mini-tweaks instead of huge nerfs and huge buffs.

Additionally, there are things that are overlooked when creating these balances. All MMORPG’s are technically still work in progresses after release. Look at how many balance patches other leading MMORPG’s are going through.

They have all gone through hundreds of patches.

Now, if you want to say that XX is more balanced than GW2, feel free to. But remember that GW2 hasn’t even been released for 6 months. Those other games have been getting balanced for YEARS.

If you’ve built a game or coded a group project with deadlines, you’d understand where I’m coming from. If you haven’t, think about writing a book with 5 other people. Everyone works on a different chapter and tries to get it to work together. Tons of people are proofreading it, and complaining about mistypes, and problems, and redundancies, all while you’re still trying to get your own message across.

Talentless huh? Big talk for a doomsayer declaring the game is a failure and unfixable after 4 months. Name me another mmo that had perfect balance after a few months.

Also, staff playing their own game must be the very best in the world right?

Spread your bile elsewhere

Biomanz.9302:

Talentless huh? Big talk for a doomsayer declaring the game is a failure and unfixable after 4 months. Name me another mmo that had perfect balance after a few months.

Also, staff playing their own game must be the very best in the world right?

Spread your bile elsewhere

For a game that uses fixed stats for sPvP, good balance is actually achievable, and should be demanded by the players. Other MMOs allow PvP and PvE gear to be worn for PvP, and that typically creates unintentional results which skew balance. As the devs never want to adjust the gear (as it is often shared by other classes) they adjust the abilities of the OP class instead. And as new gear is added, new problems arise.

With a game like this, there is no way for balance to be skewed, so we have every right to insist that it is good enough if they want us to play their game. Realistically, it takes time, but in 4 months ArenaNet still haven’t even fixed all of the bugs that were reported in the beta weekends. Look at how long it took them to fix Evasive Arcana, a bugged trait that produced a completely overpowered effect (blast finishers on every dodge roll).

At this rate, it will take almost until the game is 1 year old to get it where it should have been at release.

Must love all these armchair developers who have never even written a single line of code in their entire life, pls I’m all ears on how to solve bugs within few days,.

Furthermore I can guarantee that for 90% of all complaints is just a L2P issue, played with all professions against all apparently OP professions, with enough knowledge about every single class, the game is not “garbage” as many want you to think.

The majority of those whining on the forums have purchased the game during Christmas..and already feel entitled in having an opinion, but pls feel free to go and design your personal great MMO…I can’t wait for it

P.S I may not be a software developer but I’d get annoyed if a clueless “customer” would start bashing on my product, especially when the same product has been praised by truly professional evaluation bodies…OP get off from the armchair and step down from the pedestal

granted with a totally pvp component totally separate from pve it should make balancing easier since they wont harm the rest of the game with tone downs, tone ups and adjustments, so we SHOULD be seeing a more balanced game than we are.

but still “worlds worst devs” is kinda harsh, the game is F2P, if you’re not enjoying it go play something else, your account will still be here in 5 months time if you wanna come back and check the balance.

You know what kittened SPvP?

Not rewards, if you want those. Then got WvW or PvE, you get fat loots, money and XP. If you want to play SPvP, you do it for the competition and getting a higher level of play and profession understanding.

What truly kittened SPvP is 8v8’s implemented on maps balanced for 5v5. Everyone just specs Pow/Pre and blows everyone up while running around in a zerg. No tactics, no skill, just TAB target and hit 1 button and cap point and then head back to other points and repeat till you hit 500. While hoping that the other zerg doesn’t stay together.

There is no organization in SPvP at the moment. That is what is killing it. Balance is kittened and hard to decipher when people are playing 8v8 on 5v5 maps.

Arheundel.6451:

Must love all these armchair developers who have never even written a single line of code in their entire life, pls I’m all ears on how to solve bugs within few days,.

Furthermore I can guarantee that for 90% of all complaints is just a L2P issue, played with all professions against all apparently OP professions, with enough knowledge about every single class, the game is not “garbage” as many want you to think.

The majority of those whining on the forums have purchased the game during Christmas..and already feel entitled in having an opinion, but pls feel free to go and design your personal great MMO…I can’t wait for it

P.S I may not be a software developer but I’d get annoyed if a clueless “customer” would start bashing on my product, especially when the same product has been praised by truly professional evaluation bodies…OP get off from the armchair and step down from the pedestal

i know right all those unfounded bashes against AoC, SWTOR, Warhammer, etc. were all from “clueless customers” who just didnt know how awesome those games really were amiright??

so sick of these “stop complaining, the developer always knows best” posts

To be fair a lot of top players are very content with balance as it is now. Sure tweaks could be made but it’s pretty good atm. The thing I can’t wrap my head around is the lack of features. But supposedly the months to come in the new year will fix that.

It won’t take 1 day to fix a bug, there are millions of lines of code, if you change 1 thing you have to make sure you don’t have any wrong changes in the process, and god knows how long it takes them to compile the code for testing. They compile and come back the next day. I typed this in a way a 8 year old can understand.

PvP has some issues but the game was very ready overall. PvE/WvW make up probably 98% or more of the population, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the developers have been spending more time on those aspects of the game.

Games are much more difficult to balance without a trinity. Even with time, it will probably never feel “balanced.” The devs decided they wanted every profession to fulfill every role in PvE, which is great—but it makes balancing much harder, since there’s nothing a profession “shouldn’t” be able to do.

I do agree with Archonis, however—hotjoin is really, really bad and is the main reason that the PvP population is still so small.

trigger genious.6583:

It won’t take 1 day to fix a bug, there are millions of lines of code, if you change 1 thing you have to make sure you don’t have any wrong changes in the process, and god knows how long it takes them to compile the code for testing. They compile and come back the next day. I typed this in a way a 8 year old can understand.

Maybe they should hire a better live testing team or introduce public beta servers. Because stuff like loading screen bug and naked mesmer clones probably shouldn’t make it through large updates

SamTheGuardian.2938:

So I spent a few hours hunting down videos of ArenaNet staff playing sPvP in GW2. Some of the them new and some old. I watched them then I watched again and again, noting the best I could the circumstances they were up against and their choice of skill execution and also their movement patterns.

My conclusion is the staff that developed this game are pretty horrible at their own product. Now the balance problems make more sense, technically they can’t even properly play the game they produced.

Of course what this really tells us is something ArenaNet admitted in the weeks prior to release in late August, that they had been so busy trying to put the final polish on that they had not played the game all that much.

Guild Wars 2 has all of the problems associated with game products rushed to market. When this happens it’s ugly. Like serving a half-baked cake at a five star restaurant. No one with any integrity will forgive you because your standards should have been higher. Failure is failure. Regardless of how hard a game studio works post release the product can not be saved. MMOs stand a better chance perhaps than most, but unless ArenaNet had spectacular
box sales in December then I think it’s window has closed and it’s done. Even MMOs have to grab public interest or they begin declining.

The ugly truth is, four months after release and PvP is still a unfinished mess. So sad what a waste. What a talentless bunch of developers. It’s like they were given the blueprint to create the most innovative sPvP every to grace an MMO and they completely kitten it away. So sad.

Lol wow.

This right here is the exact wording of a spoiled brat. I don’t care how hard other people worked, I want what I want and I want it now. No decency, I would be emarassed and ashamed to act like this.

All the crying in the world isn’t going to make these bugs get fixed any faster. It happened when it happens, and nothing you throw a tantrum about will change it. Clearly you know nothing about developing or coding a game. Please, this “talentless” bunch of devs as you so tastefully put (clearly you are a godly developerand game player amongst us mere pathetic beings) have just created a game that has won how many awards? Common sense in the business world will tell you that companies have to make money to survive, and if you don’t think the gw2 devs want this game to thrive, and that they don’t want to fix the bugs and balances, then I don’t know what to tell you. It can take hours of sifting through code, to find out bugs and problems with games. We have no idea what is going behind the scenes, but if you have any experience with coding, or business in general you know more than most.

Please go develop, code and test your own game and when it’s better than this then come sling insults.

Of course there are problems with this game, we all (including the devs) know this. Do you not think that the devs who worked on this game for 6 years want to fix those problems, and want their work to succeed??

Now if you would of said hey there are a lot of problems with balance and bugs in this game, maybe it would be better for the devs to do smaller and more frequent patches containing but fixes and balance fixes, instead of one huge patch with a lot of changes and bug fixes every month of 2 (thus missing some bugs, which then have to wait another 2 months to get fixed.) Then I could of seen where you were coming from.

Archonis.7249:

You know what kittened SPvP?

Not rewards, if you want those. Then got WvW or PvE, you get fat loots, money and XP. If you want to play SPvP, you do it for the competition and getting a higher level of play and profession understanding.

What truly kittened SPvP is 8v8’s implemented on maps balanced for 5v5. Everyone just specs Pow/Pre and blows everyone up while running around in a zerg. No tactics, no skill, just TAB target and hit 1 button and cap point and then head back to other points and repeat till you hit 500. While hoping that the other zerg doesn’t stay together.

There is no organization in SPvP at the moment. That is what is killing it. Balance is kittened and hard to decipher when people are playing 8v8 on 5v5 maps.

Cant agree more ! Its not an l2p issue, the design is very bad atm and there’s no point defending it. I play guardian and know my class very well, I can beat almost any class, can even solo 2 players if they are not very good at their professions. But the reason I do not play spvp is, because its not fun :/ period !

10/10 Archonis , nice post

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

HappinessFactory.4910:

To be fair a lot of top players are very content with balance as it is now. Sure tweaks could be made but it’s pretty good atm. The thing I can’t wrap my head around is the lack of features. But supposedly the months to come in the new year will fix that.

yea and top players are playing against the same 10 or so teams every night because casuals are not having fun. LoL didn’t become popular because pro teams said it was a good balanced game, it became popular because casuals enjoy it, more casuals = more viewers for pros = more pros not the other way around.

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

5v5 didn’t work because there is no deserter debuff. i have yet to see a game start/finish 5v5 because people can just afk, quit when losing, etc. If they did lock matches like every other mmo pvp out there that rewarded winning the most and gave you 30 min debuff if you quit 5v5 would be the most played. Add to the glory grind, and rewarding kills more than control/winning and people just go back to 8v8 since it rewards the most glory. Just more backward thinking by Anet.

I would like to mention that GW2 has a group of people that act as balance testers, and that many top players give feedback to the dev team.

HappinessFactory.4910:

To be fair a lot of top players are very content with balance as it is now. Sure tweaks could be made but it’s pretty good atm. The thing I can’t wrap my head around is the lack of features. But supposedly the months to come in the new year will fix that.

who are these “top players” you speak of? what makes them top players lol didnt know gw had a real ranking system

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

cause as u fail to understand its not about the # v # the problems are much deeper

Sprawl.3891:

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

5v5 didn’t work because there is no deserter debuff. i have yet to see a game start/finish 5v5 because people can just afk, quit when losing, etc. If they did lock matches like every other mmo pvp out there that rewarded winning the most and gave you 30 min debuff if you quit 5v5 would be the most played. Add to the glory grind, and rewarding kills more than control/winning and people just go back to 8v8 since it rewards the most glory. Just more backward thinking by Anet.

There cannot be a deserter debuff because it’s hot join we’re talking about if you want to win that bad you go tournament, about free tournament they should simply remove the single join option and make it a full pre-made mode minus the tickets entrance.

-Add a search party option
-Better rewards for free tournaments
-As teams get better they can try to go paid

Arheundel.6451:

Sprawl.3891:

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

5v5 didn’t work because there is no deserter debuff. i have yet to see a game start/finish 5v5 because people can just afk, quit when losing, etc. If they did lock matches like every other mmo pvp out there that rewarded winning the most and gave you 30 min debuff if you quit 5v5 would be the most played. Add to the glory grind, and rewarding kills more than control/winning and people just go back to 8v8 since it rewards the most glory. Just more backward thinking by Anet.

There cannot be a deserter debuff because it’s hot join we’re talking about if you want to win that bad you go tournament, about free tournament they should simply remove the single join option and make it a full pre-made mode minus the tickets entrance.

-Add a search party option
-Better rewards for free tournaments
-As teams get better they can try to go paid

exactly, it’s hot join and it’s stupid. this isn’t a fps. every other mmo uses single matches with deserter debuff. hot joins aren’t fun for casuals because of quitters and zerging, forcing them to form 5 man groups will make them quit even faster.

Sprawl.3891:

exactly, it’s hot join and it’s stupid. this isn’t a fps. every other mmo uses single matches with deserter debuff. hot joins aren’t fun for casuals because of quitters and zerging, forcing them to form 5 man groups will make them quit even faster.

You are clearly not a pvp’er hahahahaha. This isnt Guild Wars Casual Crowd 2. This is Guild Wars 2, the next version of the e-sport heavy Guild Wars. CLEARLY NOT FOR CASUALS. You just now figured this out?

EaGrimdarK.7849:

Sprawl.3891:

exactly, it’s hot join and it’s stupid. this isn’t a fps. every other mmo uses single matches with deserter debuff. hot joins aren’t fun for casuals because of quitters and zerging, forcing them to form 5 man groups will make them quit even faster.

You are clearly not a pvp’er hahahahaha. This isnt Guild Wars Casual Crowd 2. This is Guild Wars 2, the next version of the e-sport heavy Guild Wars. CLEARLY NOT FOR CASUALS. You just now figured this out?

not sure if serious. casuals are what make a game an e-sport, not the pros. Pros come to the game when there are lots of casuals playing and thus watching their streams, watching their vids, spectating their matches.

The sooner you realize this the sooner you will understand why this game will not be an e-sport any time soon.

Fix the game to make it better for casuals = more players. more players = more people making teams. more teams = more competition. more competition = more elite teams. Amazing people still need this explained to them. You are like the elite players oblivious to the casual scene complaining about how there are no paid tourney queues outside of a 3 hour window.

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

Sorry to bust your elitism tirade (like most pug farmers on some team) but the 5v5 servers have for the most part been taken over by the “leet duelers yo”. Finding a 5v5 server that’s actually playing the map, and not being farmed by some scrub “team” because they can’t be arsed to do paids like they should is akin to finding a 2 dollar bill attached to a 100 dollar bill underneath your door in the morning.

Braxxus.2904:

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

Sorry to bust your elitism tirade (like most pug farmers on some team) but the 5v5 servers have for the most part been taken over by the “leet duelers yo”. Finding a 5v5 server that’s actually playing the map, and not being farmed by some scrub “team” because they can’t be arsed to do paids like they should is akin to finding a 2 dollar bill attached to a 100 dollar bill underneath your door in the morning.

kitten

[img]http://i.imgur.com/85o9f.jpg[/img]

Never seen a team play hot join…sometimes I see two guys from some random PvE guild who still lose..but no PvP guild in hot join, baddies will create all sort of excuses to hide their lack of skill

Arheundel.6451:

kitten

[img]http://i.imgur.com/85o9f.jpg[/img]

Never seen a team play hot join…sometimes I see two guys from some random PvE guild who still lose..but no PvP guild in hot join, baddies will create all sort of excuses to hide their lack of skill

What are you on about?
Never said anything about teams in hotjoin. I did say you were having an elitism tirade and apparently that’s still going on. Nice pic. Feel better? What does it have to do with 5v5’s becoming the unofficial dueling servers that all of the duelists took over? The level of self absorption you ‘pro’ team guys have is astounding.