Guild Wars 2

The hyperbole has to stop. Far too many of the posts here aren’t about properly examining the issues the game is having, and making suggestions to potentially shave said issues – they’re about kittening about how Class X is completely and irrevocably unstoppable, and needs to be nerfed into the ground. There is no class that is currently so ridiculously OP that it cannot be stopped, and needs to be nerfed into the ground.

That being said, there are currently classes with some issues, which range from minor to moderate, which should be examined and potentially shaved down a bit to see if minor tweaks can’t fix the issues.

Coming to the boards and claiming that said class is so ridiculously OP that it breaks the game doesn’t help anyone, because it just isn’t true – the discussion turns into a kittenty game of attack and defense that spreads misinformation on both sides (“Class X is unstoppable”, “There’s nothing wrong with Class X”, etc) where no one wins – not the players, and not the developers.

If you simply must bring up something you feel is OP, explain why in detail – use hard numbers, specify trait/weapon/rune/sigil/utility choices, and speak in specific terms concerning the class you’re talking about. Compare its overall effectiveness to other classes attempting to fill the same role. Bring up your thoughts on countering the spec, and explain specifically why they don’t work against class V running Spec W and using XYZ runes, sigils and utilities. If you’re defending class X, follow the same rules – so we can have a discussion that dissects the issues people are having directly and specifically, and so we don’t get 5 pages of forum rambling that ultimately amounts to nothing constructive.

whats the purpose of this thread? defend lazy balance politic? if want blame someone blame the devs who refuse to shave more regularly. all the discussions are just a symptom of very bad balancing in matter of quality and quantity

nothing is “unstoppable,” however there are a lot of builds that are extremely easy to play, requiring very little thought and/or execution to be effective.

And then you have other builds that require a decent amount of effort to play, but you have to play these exponentially better just to have a chance at being as effective as these easier builds.

That’s what’s wrong with this game. Not because ‘x’ is overpowered.

hooma.9642:

whats the purpose of this thread? defend lazy balance politic? if want blame someone blame the devs who refuse to shave more regularly. all the discussions are just a symptom of very bad balancing in matter of quality and quantity

“The developers are bad so I’m ok with people making bad arguments” isn’t a position that helps anyone in the long run.

The purpose of this thread is “If you really want things to change, you need to accurately represent issues with as little hyperbole and misinformation as possible.”

It might be momentarily cathartic to come here and complain about how broken something is, but all you end up doing is wasting your time, the time of the people who reply to you, and the time of the developers. Every thread they look into that turns into asinine hyperbole thrown out by both sides is time that could have been better spent reading well constructed arguments that do their best to accurately represent the issues. If you actually want things to change, this is how you should approach the issue – it’s not a guarantee that things will change, but we can’t entirely blame the devs if our feedback is nigh worthless.

Follidus.8027:

nothing is “unstoppable,” however there are a lot of builds that are extremely easy to play, requiring very little thought and/or execution to be effective.

That’s my concern as well. Similar to backstab thieves last year, it’s a roadblock to population growth. I don’t mind simple builds being effective at the top tier so much—it’s the entry level that I’m worried about.

evilapprentice.6379:

hooma.9642:

whats the purpose of this thread? defend lazy balance politic? if want blame someone blame the devs who refuse to shave more regularly. all the discussions are just a symptom of very bad balancing in matter of quality and quantity

“The developers are bad so I’m ok with people making bad arguments” isn’t a position that helps anyone in the long run.

The purpose of this thread is “If you really want things to change, you need to accurately represent issues with as little hyperbole and misinformation as possible.”

It might be momentarily cathartic to come here and complain about how broken something is, but all you end up doing is wasting your time, the time of the people who reply to you, and the time of the developers. Every thread they look into that turns into asinine hyperbole thrown out by both sides is time that could have been better spent reading well constructed arguments that do their best to accurately represent the issues. If you actually want things to change, this is how you should approach the issue – it’s not a guarantee that things will change, but we can’t entirely blame the devs if our feedback is nigh worthless.

but thats natural. first u mention that something is right and maybe broken and the more and more time it takes to fix that the more and more the ppl get aggro. so yeah its a dev fault.

there a two ways to balance something.
1. big balance changes but less frequent
2. small changes but high frequent

so it isnt a solution to make small changes with a big timeframe between. until the devs understand that there will always be ppl who get more and more aggro.

hooma.9642:

evilapprentice.6379:

hooma.9642:

whats the purpose of this thread? defend lazy balance politic? if want blame someone blame the devs who refuse to shave more regularly. all the discussions are just a symptom of very bad balancing in matter of quality and quantity

“The developers are bad so I’m ok with people making bad arguments” isn’t a position that helps anyone in the long run.

The purpose of this thread is “If you really want things to change, you need to accurately represent issues with as little hyperbole and misinformation as possible.”

It might be momentarily cathartic to come here and complain about how broken something is, but all you end up doing is wasting your time, the time of the people who reply to you, and the time of the developers. Every thread they look into that turns into asinine hyperbole thrown out by both sides is time that could have been better spent reading well constructed arguments that do their best to accurately represent the issues. If you actually want things to change, this is how you should approach the issue – it’s not a guarantee that things will change, but we can’t entirely blame the devs if our feedback is nigh worthless.

but thats natural. first u mention that something is right and maybe broken and the more and more time it takes to fix that the more and more the ppl get aggro. so yeah its a dev fault.

there a two ways to balance something.
1. big balance changes but less frequent
2. small changes but high frequent

so it isnt a solution to make small changes with a big timeframe between. until the devs understand that there will always be ppl who get more and more aggro.

And those people are just further inflating the timeframe between patches by taking time that could be spent offering/exploring solutions and instead squandering it. It doesn’t matter how justified you are/feel – actively contributing to the thing you’re complaining about is very counterproductive.

Totally agree with you OP.
Hope that people listen.

hooma.9642:

evilapprentice.6379:

hooma.9642:

whats the purpose of this thread? defend lazy balance politic? if want blame someone blame the devs who refuse to shave more regularly. all the discussions are just a symptom of very bad balancing in matter of quality and quantity

“The developers are bad so I’m ok with people making bad arguments” isn’t a position that helps anyone in the long run.

The purpose of this thread is “If you really want things to change, you need to accurately represent issues with as little hyperbole and misinformation as possible.”

It might be momentarily cathartic to come here and complain about how broken something is, but all you end up doing is wasting your time, the time of the people who reply to you, and the time of the developers. Every thread they look into that turns into asinine hyperbole thrown out by both sides is time that could have been better spent reading well constructed arguments that do their best to accurately represent the issues. If you actually want things to change, this is how you should approach the issue – it’s not a guarantee that things will change, but we can’t entirely blame the devs if our feedback is nigh worthless.

but thats natural. first u mention that something is right and maybe broken and the more and more time it takes to fix that the more and more the ppl get aggro. so yeah its a dev fault.

there a two ways to balance something.
1. big balance changes but less frequent
2. small changes but high frequent

so it isnt a solution to make small changes with a big timeframe between. until the devs understand that there will always be ppl who get more and more aggro.

Your whole reply has nothing to do with what the OP was saying.

He just want people to provide constructive criticism of a class instead of simply saying class X is OP and crossing your hands and that is valid.

Simply crying OP leads to scenairio like the second week of beta where the elementalist was nerfed to the ground because players were too stupid to dodge. What ends up happening is a lot of bads bandwagon on the idea that a class is OP simply from one hyperbole and the devs have to do kneejerk nerf to appease those QQer.

instead of going from warrior healing signet is OP.

How about going to Warrior healing signet is strong because its combine with other traits allows warriors to outheal damage. Bah much better than the simple whining.

In any case doing more balance patches doesn’t mean much if the devs don’t know where to go, the players can lead them to where the problems might be. You might not believe this but dev don’t always have all the answers, they tend to only see numbers, which is why no mmorpg has ever been balanced perfectly.

I agree with you completely, Evil, but it’s an MMO forum, this is what happens on practically every MMO that has ever been made.

“Class X is OP!”
“Class Y is destroying the game!”
“Class Z’s mechanic is broken!”

It sucks, but you’re never going to change that, it’s just what happens when people have a sense of entitlement, bias towards their own profession, and can’t manage to defeat a certain build or profession without help. Their thought process instantly turns to “this must be OP”, not “I must learn how to counter this”.

Incurafy.6329:

I agree with you completely, Evil, but it’s an MMO forum, this is what happens on practically every MMO that has ever been made.

“Class X is OP!”
“Class Y is destroying the game!”
“Class Z’s mechanic is broken!”

It sucks, but you’re never going to change that, it’s just what happens when people have a sense of entitlement, bias towards their own profession, and can’t manage to defeat a certain build or profession without help. Their thought process instantly turns to “this must be OP”, not “I must learn how to counter this”.

I agree, there are always going to be people who claim something is OP – that’s just the nature of the beast, as you said. I’m going to use some warrior examples below, because they’re simple and relatable – I’m not interested in debating if warriors are OP in this threat.

The point is be specific. Don’t say “Warriors are super mobile and have tons of stuns and can drop crazy amounts of burning and etc etc etc”,because you just describe facets of 3 different weapons, and warriors cant equip 3 weapons – You didn’t qualify anything.

Feel warriors are OP? Be super specific – “I feel 0/10/30/0/30 Hambow warriors running zerkers ammy and zerkers stance are too powerful because…” then go into your reasons. Talk numbers – point out what you think supports the build in question being OP. Explain how you tried to counter (because you can’t complain about something if you haven’t at least tried to counter it) and why those counters didn’t work, and how they would work against other classes filling the same role/ playing in the same style.

There are always going to be the need for further balance chances – even if the game was nigh perfectly balanced, Some class would have something a little overtuned that probably needed a once over. As players, we’re going to want to discuss it. Just do so in a manner which actually helps the developers, rather than just hyperbole, exaggerations and misinformation.

I’m laughing at how this thread is currently directly above the “Warriors are so ridiculously OP” thread hahahaha. I agree with you though, people scream bloody murder over the smallest things.

Now personally, I believe warriors are a bit OP because all the popular specs dish too much damage for how survivable they are. I don’t know the trait layouts for them but I know the mechanics very well (after all, there’s always several of them on each team so I get a lot of practice against them ). As a specific example though, I don’t think it is right that a thief cannot lower a FoTM warrior’s health with shortbow autoattack. Same with the downed autoattack. If a player has a very close fight and gets a warrior down to 5% health he won’t be able to down the warrior while he goes for a stomp. Pretty lame IMO.