Guild Wars 2

Thieves calling themselves bunkers…. Team fighting 100% of the time…
Not roaming and backcapping because of the above?

Bunker teefs
I find it laughable that certain thieves are calling themselves bunkers as if they can perform better than Reaper, Guard, Rev, War, etc. Sounds a bit counter productive compared to their specific roles prepatch. Weren’t Thieves, notably, best at +1ing 1v1 fights and backcapping nodes? Did Daredevil give that role to Mesmers now, of which, can apparently roam and apply huge AoE team damages + cc now… of which, was the class’s core weakness prepatch?

Team fighting
I don’t understand why more Thieves throw themselves at a huge wall of Swords, Wells, bruiser Revs and w/e that golden ground fleece Engis have. I’ve never considered Thieves good Team vs Team fighters unless they come in, apply that 6k backstab and run out in a split second then glue themselves back to a target to apply pressure… Oh and shadow refuge + shortbow stealth is nice on a downed ally. But now Thieves are hopping around on point dealing what feels like worse single target burst damages and CC, only to sustain a bit longer in 1v1 or 2v2 fights. I’m just not understanding what i’m seeing.

I’ve argued with a ‘bunker thief’ in game and told him he was a counter to DH guardians. My notion is that a DH guard absolutely sucks when it comes to quick bursty classes like core guard JI + WW, a high burst 7k backstabing thief or teleporting power Rev; if that Guard is on bow with no traps set up I.E. coming to a point for the first time … he’s going to get downed fast by these power burst classes. Guardian’s are only powerful when they’re not getting pressured properly and they have time to set up their traps in a group. Oh, and necros can CC them all too easily – i’m practically forced to use Purification because their unblockable Fear is crazy.

Maybe I just have a false notion about Thieves in the current meta atm. Or, I’ve just keep getting matched up against Zerk thieves and ccing Necros who automatically places a target on my head in team fights or maybe I really do have a poor perception and have no idea what i’m talking about here.

DD has some good damage mitigation, lots of dodges, and can deal ok damage with soldiers amulet. Probably doesn’t come close to guard, engi etc. but that’s not the point. Many zerk thieves are tired of trying to burst down targets with large amounts of block, invuln, protection, and sustain, and running away to back cap after barely making a difference in a fight. If you see thieves trying something different, it’s because our role is so stale and pathetic that we’ll try anything just for a change of pace. Some reroll to perform roles like bunker more effectively, but some loyalists want to actually make thief work as something other than a +1.

Some Daredevil builds are quite “tanky” while also capable of doing tons of damage. Especially with the new healing skill.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Thief’s “role” shifted a bit with Daredevil present.

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

Well, you’re arguing with idiots then. People seem to confuse tanky with bunker. Just because you can mitigate a lot of damage doesn’t make you a bunker, otherwise EPx2 and medi guards would also be considered bunker.

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

ragnarokda.1805:

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

you forget that this is conquest game..

you play a thief and you go far and then you see a necro trying to cap their home and place well on the point.

what are you going to do ?

Lavexis.5360:

ragnarokda.1805:

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

you forget that this is conquest game..

you play a thief and you go far and then you see a necro trying to cap their home and place well on the point.

what are you going to do ?

and? you can place shadow trap and leave to capture another point, when the previous point is empty blink and you can get back within a second and capture it. and you can get profit. There too many options how to deal with such subjects like this. Just be creative and use brain

I love how the idea that thief players could ever even WISH for a playstyle different than d/p shortbow decapping is so preposterous that you need to make a thread about it.

Tells a lot about the current situation of this class.

It isn’t wanting a play style separate from D/P (there are). The issue is trying to make the class do something it isn’t good at. That’s like trying to add as much swiftness as possible to a necro or guard and then trying to do a thief’s job of being the back cap +1 dude, or trying to make a healer mesmer.

Lavexis.5360:

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

Do you mean DD thieves? As D/D still means Dagger/Dagger (thanks again, anet) and that weaponset has been pretty dead in especially pvp for at least 2 years.

D/D deathblossom spam condi thieves are slowly becoming a thing in soloQ.

SlayerSixx.5763:

D/D deathblossom spam condi thieves are slowly becoming a thing in soloQ.

They were a thing at launch too but they were still useless since you can just move away from their spin.

Until they devourer venom + flanking strike proc + DB spam and steal/infiltrator signet. Not saying its amazing. Just saying I’m seeing more of them.

ragnarokda.1805:

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

here’s the issue:

thief can’t get within melee range to punish dragonhunter because of traps (Test of Faith + Dragon’s Maw is GG in most cases) + greatsword totally being capable of killing us the second we’re in there, but at the same time we can’t even kite or outrange dragonhunter at all because of the insane damage and range advantage longbow has over shortbow.

the only way a thief can even hope to deal with a dragonhunter is by bringing p/p (which is mediocre in most other cases) and hoping the dh is trap-oriented rather than dh/medi dps.

the dh/medi dps matchup is impossible for thief (alongside almost every other marauder/beserker user) so when people move away from traps and back to meditations as the meta develops it’s essentially going to be like 2013 again where thief is totally hardcountered by guardian. nobody liked playing against medi guard in the first place but now they’re back and easier (but somehow stronger) than ever.

Well, medi guard always was the hard counter to thief. The only spec that can run pre-zerk and currently marauder when thieves are on the prowl and still survive.

sinject.4607:

ragnarokda.1805:

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

here’s the issue:

thief can’t get within melee range to punish dragonhunter because of traps (Test of Faith + Dragon’s Maw is GG in most cases) + greatsword totally being capable of killing us the second we’re in there, but at the same time we can’t even kite or outrange dragonhunter at all because of the insane damage and range advantage longbow has over shortbow.

the only way a thief can even hope to deal with a dragonhunter is by bringing p/p (which is mediocre in most other cases) and hoping the dh is trap-oriented rather than dh/medi dps.

the dh/medi dps matchup is impossible for thief (alongside almost every other marauder/beserker user) so when people move away from traps and back to meditations as the meta develops it’s essentially going to be like 2013 again where thief is totally hardcountered by guardian. nobody liked playing against medi guard in the first place but now they’re back and easier (but somehow stronger) than ever.

This is true on point where a DH is setting his traps but not when a DH is off point pew pewing and slowly trying to enter the team fight with his traps. If he’s pressured, you force him to not only place a trap off point but he’s also forced to use his F3 defensive utilities quicker.

How many melee centric players do you see pressuring a DH when he comes crawling in? Any d/d Thief, Rev, ccing Reaper, Core Guard medi, Mesmer, look to see if a DH guard is on Bow, exiting their base and walking up to the group fight?

If a Thief is on my team, I wouldn’t let him anywhere near mid fights unless I send him in to deliberately dodge roll to trigger traps, SR rez a teamate and/or I know he can pressure a DH without killing himself.

Saiyan.1704:

sinject.4607:

ragnarokda.1805:

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

here’s the issue:

thief can’t get within melee range to punish dragonhunter because of traps (Test of Faith + Dragon’s Maw is GG in most cases) + greatsword totally being capable of killing us the second we’re in there, but at the same time we can’t even kite or outrange dragonhunter at all because of the insane damage and range advantage longbow has over shortbow.

the only way a thief can even hope to deal with a dragonhunter is by bringing p/p (which is mediocre in most other cases) and hoping the dh is trap-oriented rather than dh/medi dps.

the dh/medi dps matchup is impossible for thief (alongside almost every other marauder/beserker user) so when people move away from traps and back to meditations as the meta develops it’s essentially going to be like 2013 again where thief is totally hardcountered by guardian. nobody liked playing against medi guard in the first place but now they’re back and easier (but somehow stronger) than ever.

This is true on point where a DH is setting his traps but not when a DH is off point pew pewing and slowly trying to enter the team fight with his traps. If he’s pressured, you force him to not only place a trap off point but he’s also forced to use his F3 defensive utilities quicker.

How many melee centric players do you see pressuring a DH when he comes crawling in? Any d/d Thief, Rev, ccing Reaper, Core Guard medi, Mesmer, look to see if a DH guard is on Bow, exiting their base and walking up to the group fight?

If a Thief is on my team, I wouldn’t let him anywhere near mid fights unless I send him in to deliberately dodge roll to trigger traps, SR rez a teamate and/or I know he can pressure a DH without killing himself.

Shadow Refuge res is pretty useless with a DH, just needs to trap spam interrupting the res and killing any ressing quickly or LB5 and make them screwed when the res finishes.

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

They deleted zerker thief in june patch. They deleted maraduer/stealth thief in xpac. Idk why you are surprised that people run around with staff trying to make use of garbage (aka drd spec) Anet presented them for 50 bucks.

What i am personally surprised about is that apprently (based on devs actions and patches) Anet has no company rules (unlike other gaming companies) that prevend devs from favoring (in thief case, heavily discriminate) certain group of players.

Why would a developer favour any class over another? The devs (AFAIK) don’t even PvP in this game :P.

Nocta.5274:

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

I think that out of about 30+ rez like that, two or three were successful. So yeah, it’s clearly not working that well. It’s true.

On the other side, it’s okay that it does not work everytime in the middle of a fight.

Alekt.5803:

Nocta.5274:

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

I think that out of about 30+ rez like that, two or three were successful. So yeah, it’s clearly not working that well. It’s true.

On the other side, it’s okay that it does not work everytime in the middle of a fight.

Why stealth res outside of a fight.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Why would a developer favour any class over another? The devs (AFAIK) don’t even PvP in this game :P.

Um yes they do. Quite few of them actually. You would know if you played on NA.

As far as favoring goes, i been asking myself for more than 2 years now why… i would really love to believe that they actually know what they are doing instead of random guessing…..

Uh, I do play on NA. I don’t see any favouring. Just bad design in some places IMO. I can’t believe professionals would hold any bias towards anything work related, although I do believe they can kitten up.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Uh, I do play on NA. I don’t see any favouring. Just bad design in some places IMO. I can’t believe professionals would hold any bias towards anything work related, although I do believe they can kitten up.

Have you played wow before? Heard about dev that got fired because he was bit too much in love with warlocks?

oh Helseth has devs skype~

Well then, I stand corrected. Any proof of it happening here?

Gotta say…I haven’t found Daredevil all that hard to rip apart as most any class when I find them attempting to bunker…

The only class that showed signs of bias is the Rev but that’s because he’s an “elite” class who’s part of the HoT package. Then he got a small nerf after the esl so there goes that assumption.

Atm there are no obvious signs of bias favoritism.

glaphen.5230:

Alekt.5803:

Nocta.5274:

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

I think that out of about 30+ rez like that, two or three were successful. So yeah, it’s clearly not working that well. It’s true.

On the other side, it’s okay that it does not work everytime in the middle of a fight.

Why stealth res outside of a fight.

I think that some class that were not known for their extraordinary aoe capabilities managed to get extraordinary aoe capabilities that should be toned down. Some classes needs to keep the quality of AOE, like Tempest since it’s the goal. But, are DH trap main purpose to cleave?

Ive been using a condi bunker condi thief build that basically is just about spaming death blosson and lotus dodge, with acro/trick/DD and energy sigils you have infinite ini/end to spend as long as you keep steal and weapon swap on cd, and just by dodgeing you are: applying conditions, removing conditions, evading (duh) and healing (I found this shatter power chrono that though he was too impresive sending me a billion of illusions constantly, and me just lazily dodgeing his shatters and massively healing at the same time due the great ammount of targets to synergy with SoM, felt just like Neo fighting the Smith’s army)

Main weakness as mentioned about though are fields type if dmg like traps or necro wells, those melt you, but if one, or even 2 berserker geared ppl try to jump on me and spike ne they’re on for a nasty surprise

glaphen.5230:

Alekt.5803:

Nocta.5274:

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

I think that out of about 30+ rez like that, two or three were successful. So yeah, it’s clearly not working that well. It’s true.

On the other side, it’s okay that it does not work everytime in the middle of a fight.

Why stealth res outside of a fight.

It’s a minor trait, they stealth anyway when they res.

NeXeD.3042:

glaphen.5230:

Alekt.5803:

Nocta.5274:

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

I think that out of about 30+ rez like that, two or three were successful. So yeah, it’s clearly not working that well. It’s true.

On the other side, it’s okay that it does not work everytime in the middle of a fight.

Why stealth res outside of a fight.

It’s a minor trait, they stealth anyway when they res.

Yes but he was talking about Shadow Refuge.

glaphen.5230:

NeXeD.3042:

glaphen.5230:

Alekt.5803:

Nocta.5274:

Stealth rezzes in the middle of teamfights aren’t a thing anymorte due to DH traps, Reapers native aoe, Chrono wells, scrapper hammer 5, revenant glint aoe reveal / aoe pushback

Tons of new abilities makes shadow refuge a lot less useful than before.

I think that out of about 30+ rez like that, two or three were successful. So yeah, it’s clearly not working that well. It’s true.

On the other side, it’s okay that it does not work everytime in the middle of a fight.

Why stealth res outside of a fight.

It’s a minor trait, they stealth anyway when they res.

Yes but he was talking about Shadow Refuge.

I think he was most likely confused and thought every theif stealth res utilizes SR.

Saiyan.1704:

The only class that showed signs of bias is the Rev but that’s because he’s an “elite” class who’s part of the HoT package. Then he got a small nerf after the esl so there goes that assumption.

Atm there are no obvious signs of bias favoritism.

and you really believe that? wow…

SlayerSixx.5763:

D/D deathblossom spam condi thieves are slowly becoming a thing in soloQ.

That is a very unreliable way to avoid damage i tried it once and its just horrible

Extreme.8350:

SlayerSixx.5763:

D/D deathblossom spam condi thieves are slowly becoming a thing in soloQ.

That is a very unreliable way to avoid damage i tried it once and its just horrible

Thats why anet increase the evade frames recently, now when combined with lotus dodge and SoM you are.practically untouchable to all but field skills like traps and wells (wich pretty much will melt you because of the lack of dire stats on spvp a heavy hit that manage to get trough the evade will hurt, and badly)