Guild Wars 2

@daydream: Even the best players (even the best thieves) have said that some aspects of thieves are OP. Some of the best thieves find, that their burst is fine as it is, and some don’t. Some of the non-thieves best players I have talked to, find thieves burst to make the game non-fun, cause frustration, be unavoidable (and hence lower the skills required), make the game more dull etc etc etc. What you are saying is in direct contrast to what I hear. It isn’t a unanimous decision/vote.

The difference is however: They choose to play with it and try to make their voice be heard where they feel they can be heard … either by working around thieves or by simply using them, or voicing it at “conferences” (that is what I like to think, at least). Atm there are other things to exploit/benefit from, so thieves are not a high priority. That doesn’t however in any way make the issues smaller or make their burst ok.

Arheundel.6451:

jportell.2197:

Hmmm… lets get back on topic. For the people that think profession X with Y build is OP. Instead of constantly saying L2P (I’m guilty of this I know) Give advice on what you have seen people do to beat you. The people that feel that that profession is OP take the advice go duel a friend on an empty server and try the tactics suggested. Saying this is “OP it needs nerfed” then replying with “IT’S not Op just LTP noob” gets us nowhere. I gave the OP some advice on dealing with a phantasm army Mesmer.
@Arheundel I am guessing you run D/D ele. Instead of saying L2P to people tell the people the strategies that others have used to beat you. Or what mess up’s you might make and others might make to watch out for.

There are dozen of videos and multipages threads on how to deal with each profession…have you ever heard the term “spoon-feed”?…yeah

I get your meaning but instead of a nerf war let us be constructive. And Ele’s are a pain in the neck… But they are supposed to be. :P And IMO a Mesmer specced right can bunker better than a guardian.

You really can’t say “x” class is overpowered in a game with this sort of build diversity. There are plenty of ways to build an ele, guardian, mesmer and thief that are just terrible.

Things that are blatantly overpowered:

1. Quickness – Srsly, who thought doubling the speed of every action on demand was a good idea? Raise your hand and be counted so we can avoid any of your future projects.
2. stacking healing + toughness + protection – Taken individually they’re not that imbalanced. When you consider that a high armor/healing build (3300+ armor/1000+ healing) with protection is taking ~1/3 the damage of a base (1836 armor) build and healing for almost twice as much (if not substantially more depending on traits), you run into problems. The above build can tank 6 times the damage that a glass cannon is capable of, but is capable of doing more than 1/6th of the damage. The nature of damage mitigation means that the more you have, the better each equal increment becomes. 90% damage reduction is 10x better than 0, and 95% is 20 times better (obviously an extreme example). This would be easily remedied with meaningful diminishing returns to avoid extreme build compilations.
3. Midcasting steal – Midcasting steal is the essential element of the instakill combo. This forum has been over the issue ad nauseum, so I’m not going to rehash that here.

Burst and Sustain.

Personally have the biggest issue with Thief burst and the sustainability of the Elementalist, but with the recent “Hundred Nades” Engie and how sustainable Guardians have been since launch I still feel both sides of the spectrum still need to be tweaked across the board.

Pretty much what Caffynated has described.

Arheundel.6451:

Your only weapon against eles is your auto-attack? There are videos of engineers holding off multiple opponents in WvWvW , sPvP and tPvP; videos of engineers dealing 16k dmg burst in 1s…and your only weapon against eles is auto-attack because as engineer YOU LACK CC?

…………………………………………………….-_-…………………………………………………………………..

Hahaha, sorry—the engineer forum has developed a sarcastic sense of humor, so I forget to use my /sarcasm on when posting in other forums.

I didn’t say engineers lack cc—they have access to a lot of knockbacks. They are not a counter to triple cantrip eles, though. A lot of people don’t realize that to use the 100nades burst, the engi can’t switch to his grenade kit for 20 seconds. Engineer’s other long range attack is rifle 1. Thus, in a 1v1, an engineer will spend a lot of time auto-attacking before trying to land the burst. A 100nades engi has a pull, an immobilize, and a knockback. If the engi can use these to feint out all three cantrips without using any of his grenades, he can land the burst Thus, my post. I apologize, though, it was too sarcastic to leave off the sarcasm tag.

tl;dr—100nades engies are good at ending 2v1s, bad at 1v1s. I don’t even like playing 100nades build, I’m just defending it because lately so many people hold up 100nades as a reason that no balance tweaks are needed. “See? even engies can kill stuff!” (sarcasm off. )

Poxxia.1547:

@daydream: Even the best players (even the best thieves) have said that some aspects of thieves are OP. Some of the best thieves find, that their burst is fine as it is, and some don’t. Some of the non-thieves best players I have talked to, find thieves burst to make the game non-fun, cause frustration, be unavoidable (and hence lower the skills required), make the game more dull etc etc etc. What you are saying is in direct contrast to what I hear. It isn’t a unanimous decision/vote.

The difference is however: They choose to play with it and try to make their voice be heard where they feel they can be heard … either by working around thieves or by simply using them, or voicing it at “conferences” (that is what I like to think, at least). Atm there are other things to exploit/benefit from, so thieves are not a high priority. That doesn’t however in any way make the issues smaller or make their burst ok.

Ive talked about this elsewhere. Burst in this game getting a look is something im fine with, as long as thiefs( who bring nothing but burst to the table) get some compensation.

But all the same thief burst is not the biggest balance issue. Nor are ‘warriors in a good place’.

jportell.2197:

Arheundel.6451:

jportell.2197:

Hmmm… lets get back on topic. For the people that think profession X with Y build is OP. Instead of constantly saying L2P (I’m guilty of this I know) Give advice on what you have seen people do to beat you. The people that feel that that profession is OP take the advice go duel a friend on an empty server and try the tactics suggested. Saying this is “OP it needs nerfed” then replying with “IT’S not Op just LTP noob” gets us nowhere. I gave the OP some advice on dealing with a phantasm army Mesmer.
@Arheundel I am guessing you run D/D ele. Instead of saying L2P to people tell the people the strategies that others have used to beat you. Or what mess up’s you might make and others might make to watch out for.

There are dozen of videos and multipages threads on how to deal with each profession…have you ever heard the term “spoon-feed”?…yeah

I get your meaning but instead of a nerf war let us be constructive. And Ele’s are a pain in the neck… But they are supposed to be. :P And IMO a Mesmer specced right can bunker better than a guardian.

If somebody would come and say :" ok profession X is too efficient at this, so I suggest to reduce the duration of trait Y from 10s to 5s and maybe change skill A to make more hard to land or reduce the range from 600 to 300"
Then yes there is constructive discussion because you can see that the guy proposing changes actually know about the profession and he’s asking for specific changes, but the majority of people know kitten about other profession and from the top of their arrogance they still ask for nerfs, as they consider themself pro players hence every defeat is due to the them facing an OP profession

@jportell
Thanks. My issue is more the constant damage with tankyness. I’ve been using portal in duels to kill them.(with a lot of crying mind you) I’d get their HP low then break combat killing all 3 clones after a weapon swap then bull rush them. But I’ll take your advice to heart. Also thank you for attempting to get the thread back on topic.

@Arheundel
There may be perceptions you do not agree with, but a video and a venomous attitude is just poison to the people who are trying to learn, that is the point of this thread. I doubt anything is going to get nerfed based on the claims here no need to defend classes or builds. If you feel nothing wrong with your play, and are trying to help by implying the stupidity of others when they make a statement on their own perception it’s just not helpful. If you detest ignorance help enlighten people beyond a video link and having an attitude that is part if the problem why people can’t get into sPvP.

@others
Ask what play you need against another build with your current build not just call it OP and leave it, try to identify the walls you cannot get around then maybe others can help.

Daishi.6027:

@jportell
Thanks. My issue is more the constant damage with tankyness. I’ve been using portal in duels to kill them.(with a lot of crying mind you) I’d get their HP low then break combat killing all 3 clones after a weapon swap then bull rush them. But I’ll take your advice to heart. Also thank you for attempting to get the thread back on topic.

@Arheundel
There may be perceptions you do not agree with, but a video and a venomous attitude is just poison to the people who are trying to learn, that is the point of this thread. I doubt anything is going to get nerfed based on the claims here no need to defend classes or builds. If you feel nothing wrong with your play, and are trying to help by implying the stupidity of others when they make a statement on their own perception it’s just not helpful. If you detest ignorance help enlighten people beyond a video link and having an attitude that is part if the problem why people can’t get into sPvP.

@others
Ask what play you need against another build with your current build not just call it OP and leave it, try to identify the walls you cannot get around then maybe others can help.

I can recognize people who want to learn and people who just want to QQ:

Person who want to learn: “Hey guys, I need some help in dealing with profession X, I don’t consider myself an experienced player so any insight is welcome ty”

Person who think to be a pro:" I can beat most professions without any problems , I’m rank blah blah blah and won several tournaments blah blah, I run this build and always lose to profession X, it’s OP nerf it"

The level of arrogance already gives aways their intention even in the most veiled situations, no video, suggestion or tactic will change their mind.
To everything their answer is :" GG you just show videos of pro beating noobs", therefore I have to assume they’re a pro players losing to noobs am I right? Because of course everybody running profession X is a freaking noob and they’re the pro players hence they can’t lose to us, if we win it’s because we’re OP, despite videos and thread showing otherwise

You know how they say…“the road to hell is paved with good intentions”, stop covering for these QQers, they’ve got no intention of learning because they think to know already everything

Basically people like me who have been using the same profession for the last 6 months, tested it non stop during every BWE, build theorycrafted for months, should go and lose to the likes of button smashers, who go in press quickness/frenzy 1-2-3 and expect people to fall dead at their feet?!
I use a staff, no shocking aura, no frost aura, no burning speed…and there is still no way for them to win, unless I get attacked by 4-5 people and got everything on CD, is it this because staff is OP also?

So venomous attitude?…yeah you’re right, but try to understand where I am coming from

@Arheundel: Do you really find it hard to argue vs people who are button-mashers without any real understanding?

Have you seen how people respond to the “first kind” of request in these forums btw?

All I can say is really, that thinking discussion is futile is imho the worst you can ever do. I find people in these forum a lot of the times don’t bother with convincing (nor have an open mind towards convincing neither) but rather try to persuade and/or manipulate. In all seriousness … we can all do the latter: Find your nearest psychology-guide-book to manipulation or/and if you are advanced supplement it with some insight into the world of power/discourse. All the bad habits are right here before us … sad really.

PS: I am not btw in any way trying to trivialize the subjects I have touched .. neither Foucault nor social psychology are simple subjects.

Daishi.6027:

@jportell
Thanks. My issue is more the constant damage with tankyness. I’ve been using portal in duels to kill them.(with a lot of crying mind you) I’d get their HP low then break combat killing all 3 clones after a weapon swap then bull rush them. But I’ll take your advice to heart. Also thank you for attempting to get the thread back on topic.

@Arheundel
There may be perceptions you do not agree with, but a video and a venomous attitude is just poison to the people who are trying to learn, that is the point of this thread. I doubt anything is going to get nerfed based on the claims here no need to defend classes or builds. If you feel nothing wrong with your play, and are trying to help by implying the stupidity of others when they make a statement on their own perception it’s just not helpful. If you detest ignorance help enlighten people beyond a video link and having an attitude that is part if the problem why people can’t get into sPvP.

@others
Ask what play you need against another build with your current build not just call it OP and leave it, try to identify the walls you cannot get around then maybe others can help.

The constant Damage comes from the retaliation on all 3 phantasms plus the Mesmer. Which is why taking out the defender first is key. Keep in mind that you can not one shot these little guys like our other phantasms they have more health (As they should since they are designed to absorb damage) But not as much as a regular player would.

Three D/D eles in a tourney seems pretty OP- there is probably a counter but they are so fast that it always feels like there is three people at every node, and if they are all the little folk then it is even harder to pick which is burst and which is bunker as well.

Poxxia.1547:

@Arheundel: Do you really find it hard to argue vs people who are button-mashers without any real understanding?

Have you seen how people respond to the “first kind” of request in these forums btw?

All I can say is really, that thinking discussion is futile is imho the worst you can ever do. I find people in these forum a lot of the times don’t bother with convincing (nor have an open mind towards convincing neither) but rather try to persuade and/or manipulate. In all seriousness … we can all do the latter: Find your nearest psychology-guide-book to manipulation or/and if you are advanced supplement it with some insight into the world of power/discourse. All the bad habits are right here before us … sad really.

PS: I am not btw in any way trying to trivialize the subjects I have touched .. neither Foucault nor social psychology are simple subjects.

What happen on these forums is nothing new for a MMO player, all MMO official forums are like this…a constant influx of whine thread, the sPvP subforum is for 80% a collection of whine threads.

Anyway I have already stated that in now way I’m trying to convince people to change opinion…because it’s impossible, it’ll never happen, what will happen is that Anet will make few adjustment to the ele profession, few players won’t able to change their playstyle and they’ll feel as the class got destroyed…so they will leave the ele for another profession.

The whiners thinking they won, they’ll move to the next profession they keep losing and start another cycle of QQ threads, of course Anet won’t “destroy” the ele profession and little will change for those who have been playing it for months, basically if we were winning before…we’ll win np even after change, surely there will be less eles players and the meta will move to the next cheesy thing.

In the end QQers never win, a game get never dumbed down to their level and they’ll keep complaining forever, everytime they meet a new barrier

balancing 5vs5 around 1vs1? this is the worst crap i’ve ever heard….how the kitten can you balance 2 bunkers 1vs1? or a glass cannon and a bunker guardian? a bunker guardian and a cond necro? Seriously wtf are you saying?

Just open a nerf thief QQ topic like everyone else…still better than this bs..