Guild Wars 2

Skyhammer is a cool map I’ll give it that, but I’m not sure if the pvp environment is ready for it….considering how drastic and dynamically inconsistent it is compared to the other maps.

Maybe I’m wrong, who knows. The whole concept of the map just seem so out of left field that I’m still having a hard time wrapping my head around how skyhammer actually made it to production.

I’m not entirely sure what to expect anymore lol. Should I expect my warrior to be wielding a staff very soon? Should I start figuring out what heavy armor set will look good on my necro?

I just don’t know anymore honestly. First time I played skyhammer…….I wish I was making it up, but I’m not…..I literally thought I was playing a different game.

Good? Bad? Time will tell I suppose

Acrisor.8097:

In my personal opinion this is the worst map to be designed in this game so far. It promotes too much CC and antigame, instead of game.

Sure, it is fun to throw characters down and see them die, but it is not fair for a player that tries to think and enjoy the profession he/she created. It feels like a constant hunt for disabling control, throw people down, and then laugh at them. It is simply not fair.

So, in my opinion it is fun, but it clearly does not worth to be included inside tournaments. For one, I joined this game to play a game, not an antigame.

This is not objective feedback.

Nik Rane.6431:

Acrisor.8097:

In my personal opinion this is the worst map to be designed in this game so far. It promotes too much CC and antigame, instead of game.

Sure, it is fun to throw characters down and see them die, but it is not fair for a player that tries to think and enjoy the profession he/she created. It feels like a constant hunt for disabling control, throw people down, and then laugh at them. It is simply not fair.

So, in my opinion it is fun, but it clearly does not worth to be included inside tournaments. For one, I joined this game to play a game, not an antigame.

This is not objective feedback.

yea but what he says is all true

Judging after playing this map pretty much 2 days straight on a 8v8 perma server:

The Map is VERY anti melee. Except for the cannon Room.

The cannon room is insane one missed dodge can lose you the fight very easy but the gate helps popping in and out so plagueform and tornado are a bit less insanely op.

Knockbacks/pulls and CC are strong as well but tbh i did not have much trouble because you can negate most of it to begin with by good positioning. However Melees are again screwed for this matter.

^With the possibility of instakills we might see a lot of bunker vs bunker with CC on sidenodes which imo is not that different than it is now.. Debunking has been a thing since forever and making debunker specs strong on this map is a reasonable thing to do.
Also it is very unlikely to kill someone with CC on midnode unless your opponent is terribad.

Map could still work with full bunker teams which is kinda terrifying imo

Laser should fire a bit faster and be dodgeable for my personal preference but its alright as it is now.. I can always just walk out unless i get hard CCd or want to stay.

As it is now Lasers main purpose is to force people off node.

I love the design of mid node. Side nodes are nice as well.

I would love to be able to use skills midjump – that would be a nice improvement and also it would make melees cry even moar.

Overall Anet hates melees, the new map requires different builds for sure! + for me its fun to watch and play

Also @ the whiners if you`re playing a ranged build and still get knocked around youre doing it wrong

I don’t think it is good for new/incoming players. The map has interesting mechanics that encourages different play-styles and strategies, which may be good for players of a higher caliber. Newer players on the other hand, when thrown into a game in the map after being exposed to the older maps, expect their current builds to work, but as it stands the map is too different and is throwing off these players and are getting utterly demolished, due to not changing builds.

The map is fine for hot-joins or custom matches, but I do not think there is a place for it in tournaments as they stand now.

I don’t know how to “fix” Skyhammer so that non-CC troll builds would be useful, but one suggestion on the disappearing crystal platforms: maybe they should all just drop you down to the basement tunnel/trench system, which should require a bit of a jog to get out of. And then the only way to instantly die from CC would be to get knocked off the sides of the map.

The crystal platforms in the Skyhammer cannon room need to stay though, but the area that you spawn in at should have a bit more room. Right now a defender can essentially knock you into oblivion as soon as they see you enter.

The more I play this map, the more fun it becomes. It is strange to say that, because I usually consider myself to be sportsmanlike in matches (you know, "GL HF, GG, no trash talking), but this map encourages the most outrageous trolling insta-kill behavior ever, and I am having so much fun being a kittenhead.

Necro, Guardian, Mesmer… Doesn’t matter. All 3 have the tools to troll this map hard, and I don’t even play engi which can do it even more.

With that said, I don’t think that this map can stay in the tourney rotation. It is just a little too broken and too gimmicky right now. I do think that with some tweaks you could make it tourney worthy though.

1) Shorten the telegraph on the SkyHammer slightly, but also reduce the damage slightly and reduce the AoE to the size of a side node. This would give emphasis to skilled play in terms of coordinating immobs, stuns, KD’s ,etc. to keep opponents in the blast radius while also making the laser a bit less “must have to hold nodes”.

2) The side nodes need a little tweaking. The longer range pushes/pulls have such a monster advantage there that it is a little too much IMO. I think if you remove one of the glass panels and extend a little more platform (not really much, maybe only like 180 units) on one of the 3 open sides, then it would be a more playable area if you are going for combat rather than CC-gibs.

3) Mechanic to punish pushes/pulls/launches that fail to make a kill would be beneficial at the SkyHammer and/or side nodes as well. Perhaps an area that grants stability for a relatively decent duration (6s or so), but place it right at the edge of the platform, or on the sides of the glass panels (only when they are shattered). This would give more incentive to use CC skillfully rather than just spamming until you generate a fall death.

There aren t problems for me… when this map is in rotation i don t play Tpvp easy lol..

vorpal.1497:

I don’t know how to “fix” Skyhammer so that non-CC troll builds would be useful, but one suggestion on the disappearing crystal platforms: maybe they should all just drop you down to the basement tunnel/trench system, which should require a bit of a jog to get out of. And then the only way to instantly die from CC would be to get knocked off the sides of the map.

I was thinking the same thing. And the cannons AoE needs to be reduced. or put it on a timer, like the buffs in temple. On the other maps you had to “sacrifice” a player or two to get the secondary objectives. In this map you can just hold the cannon with 2 and still deal the same or even more damage to the other team. Plus it doesn’t take any skill to use it.

The map looks beautiful, is nicely laid out and the jump pads add, in my opinion, a very fun and unique type of play.

However, the cannon hits WAY to hard over WAY to big of an area. Either damage or AoE has to be reduced.
Also, some of the jump pads seem pretty buggy. Seems to me that some will easily hop you up onto the next level no matter where you walk onto them, whilst others you have to get the perfect angle, otherwise you wind up half way across the map facing the complete opposite way. This could, however, be down to my lack of practise with them…

I think re-evaluating this map is hard because any of the changes suggested to make this a better tourney map would somewhat nullify some current fun factors the map has on a more light-hearted playing field (hotjoin). Best way is to make the map different for hotjoin and tpvp, but that’s probably not viable for Anet.

one of the biggest complaints i see here is “it forces people into a specific setup”.

am i the only one that thinks this is an ideal scenario? each map forcing you to make use of a different setup and strategy to make the best of it is how maps should be.

of course, there’s the issue of “well guardians are excellent at CC and counter CC” and other complaints regarding “this class is better for this map”. honestly? CC isn’t everything, and you only need one well timed use of it anyway, the rest is bonus. you can still win this map without using CC for everything.

Ravak.8912:

Wonderful map.

1. Shifts build from DPS / condition overload to CC / positioning (fresh change). Takes time to adapt, unless you played CC heavy class.
2. The map IS competitive. There is no RNG involved, you have to outplay and out-position enemies. Requires much more skills IMHO than typical DPS/condition overload, as you also need to be aware of positioning AND potential CC abilities of your foe.

No. It only empowered Engineers and Necromancers even further, because there’s no place to dodge their area-denial, you’re also forced to eat all Necro’s marks and get shot by all turrets at once, getting a ton of conditions and an Immobilize.

Oh and guess which classes have easy access to CC and Stab.

BrunoBRS.5178:

one of the biggest complaints i see here is “it forces people into a specific setup”.

am i the only one that thinks this is an ideal scenario? each map forcing you to make use of a different setup and strategy to make the best of it is how maps should be.

of course, there’s the issue of “well guardians are excellent at CC and counter CC” and other complaints regarding “this class is better for this map”. honestly? CC isn’t everything, and you only need one well timed use of it anyway, the rest is bonus. you can still win this map without using CC for everything.

You can win this map without CC? It’s like saying that you can win Kyhlo without Treb. If the enemy isn’t using it, sure. But they will.

What I don’t understand about the introduction of this map is, we’ve been moving away from one-shot/instagib mechanics for months now. Yet, here we introduce a map whose primary mechanic is setting up an instagib.

YuiRS.8129:

BrunoBRS.5178:

one of the biggest complaints i see here is “it forces people into a specific setup”.

am i the only one that thinks this is an ideal scenario? each map forcing you to make use of a different setup and strategy to make the best of it is how maps should be.

of course, there’s the issue of “well guardians are excellent at CC and counter CC” and other complaints regarding “this class is better for this map”. honestly? CC isn’t everything, and you only need one well timed use of it anyway, the rest is bonus. you can still win this map without using CC for everything.

You can win this map without CC? It’s like saying that you can win Kyhlo without Treb. If the enemy isn’t using it, sure. But they will.

I win this map without CC. i only bring tripwire. which i always bring on any map anyways.

Love the map (and for the most part, I am not a fan of conquest). Don’t change it or listen to the elitists who think it should play perfectly with their current teams and builds.

Now, next map needs to be Capture the Flag then Arena 2v2 3v3 5v5, go!

YuiRS.8129:

BrunoBRS.5178:

one of the biggest complaints i see here is “it forces people into a specific setup”.

am i the only one that thinks this is an ideal scenario? each map forcing you to make use of a different setup and strategy to make the best of it is how maps should be.

of course, there’s the issue of “well guardians are excellent at CC and counter CC” and other complaints regarding “this class is better for this map”. honestly? CC isn’t everything, and you only need one well timed use of it anyway, the rest is bonus. you can still win this map without using CC for everything.

You can win this map without CC? It’s like saying that you can win Kyhlo without Treb. If the enemy isn’t using it, sure. But they will.

you can win without CC, you just do exactly what you do on other maps, but while paying attention to where you’re standing. the threat of possibly having CC is enough to keep people on the edge about… well, edges. kill people, burst people, bunker people, the usual stuff.

of course CC provides an advantage, but 1- it’s nice that each map demands a different playstyle within the same class, rather than a “good for everything” kind of build (which, i can’t stress enough, still works the same in this map. your burst isn’t suddenly ineffective because you could CC someone to death) and 2- an advantage isn’t a guaranteed win.

Ashanor.5319:

Love the map (and for the most part, I am not a fan of conquest). Don’t change it or listen to the elitists who think it should play perfectly with their current teams and builds.

Now, next map needs to be Capture the Flag then Arena 2v2 3v3 5v5, go!

Are you against giving everyone a skill that one shots anyone? Do you wish to promote that “boom head shot” type of game play?

BrunoBRS.5178:

YuiRS.8129:

BrunoBRS.5178:

one of the biggest complaints i see here is “it forces people into a specific setup”.

am i the only one that thinks this is an ideal scenario? each map forcing you to make use of a different setup and strategy to make the best of it is how maps should be.

of course, there’s the issue of “well guardians are excellent at CC and counter CC” and other complaints regarding “this class is better for this map”. honestly? CC isn’t everything, and you only need one well timed use of it anyway, the rest is bonus. you can still win this map without using CC for everything.

You can win this map without CC? It’s like saying that you can win Kyhlo without Treb. If the enemy isn’t using it, sure. But they will.

you can win without CC, you just do exactly what you do on other maps, but while paying attention to where you’re standing. the threat of possibly having CC is enough to keep people on the edge about… well, edges. kill people, burst people, bunker people, the usual stuff.

of course CC provides an advantage, but 1- it’s nice that each map demands a different playstyle within the same class, rather than a “good for everything” kind of build (which, i can’t stress enough, still works the same in this map. your burst isn’t suddenly ineffective because you could CC someone to death) and 2- an advantage isn’t a guaranteed win.

CC still provides an advantage on EVERY map. Locking somoene out of a heal or cc’ing to coordinate burst is still strategic gameplay. If we’re going to promote 1 shotting people as skillful, let’s bring back all the burst classes that we’ve nullified. Bring back frenzy/hb, 100nades, 25 might stack shatters with double shatter, and back stab thieves. We can tell everyone to be skillful and l2dodge and position.

Pyriall.5027:

If we’re going to promote 1 shotting people as skillful, let’s bring back all the burst classes that we’ve nullified. Bring back frenzy/hb, 100nades, 25 might stack shatters with double shatter, and back stab thieves. We can tell everyone to be skillful and l2dodge and position.

this is a pretty legit point

maybe change it so that the blue floor tiles just “explode” when standing on them and deal damage but dont disappear. With that and walls on the ledges near the side nodes
it would be less instagib+high variance i think.

I know that the Devs are watching this.

So just a few observations of mine. I may update it in the future when I have more time.

1. Cannon room is a bit small for my taste
2. Glassy ground is considered an object just like boxes in Kyhlo allowing the necro to load life force by swinging dagger or staff or WH#5 just standing next to them. They, unlike Kyhlo boxes, don’t get destroyed giving you an easy full life force.
3. Using necro Dark Path (DS#2) on a target standing behind a glass pad won’t teleport you to the target, bu rather to the edge of the pad.

Despite those technical limitations, which I expect will be reprogrammed one day to work like intended I’m having a lot of fun. The map is growing on me, I’m starting to really really like it.

Pyriall.5027:

CC still provides an advantage on EVERY map. Locking somoene out of a heal or cc’ing to coordinate burst is still strategic gameplay. If we’re going to promote 1 shotting people as skillful, let’s bring back all the burst classes that we’ve nullified. Bring back frenzy/hb, 100nades, 25 might stack shatters with double shatter, and back stab thieves. We can tell everyone to be skillful and l2dodge and position.

Agreed. While I enjoy the “specializing for the map” aspect of Skyhammer, I absolutely dread the idea of Skyhammer being the tpvp map for an extended period of time. Despite arguments of “I just use my normal spec and do fine”, that doesn’t respond to the massive issue which is that entire 5 man teams are going into tpvp with either a spam knockdown/fear spec or a stability spam spec. This map does not encourage skill, it discourages it by allowing players to load up on every available CC and push you toward a ledge.

The only way to counter this is to bring a stability spam spec, and for those that use the tired l2dodge argument, I wonder if you’re playing against molerats; anyone with a brain will watch your dodges and look for an opportunity to spam knockbacks until you fall off a ledge. This is especially problematic with the Skyhammer itself, which practically begs players to abuse knockbacks to kill others, rather than actually defend through normal means. In a perfect world, no one would be so greedy for wins as to run knockback spam specs, but that just isn’t the case: people are treating this like it’s Knockback Wars 2. I like the concept behind Skyhammer, but it’s absolutely silly given how much it conflicts with almost every decision Anet has made thus far regarding pvp (as Pyriall points out in the quote).

We need maps with diverse objectives that encourage skilled play and diverse specs, not “watch out for the 5 man teams that will spam AoE fears to throw you to your death”.

I have to agree with the people who think the cannon can be fired too rapidly. The cannon itself is a little to easy to secure with CC builds because of its small area size. Any team member who can effectively control a small area now has near perfect vision of the map and can fire the cannon at will,..it poses too much of an advantage, when compared to treb. The treb you need to practice your aiming with and can usually only have a “Fair idea.” of where the ideal locations to fire it are.

All-in-all though, I am quite liking skyhammer, even though I am now where near fully understanding the map. Good job anet.

The map design features assymetical mobility depending on your location, has a fantastic secondary mechanic centered around co-ordinating CC in conjunction with cannon-fire and has many methods of play above and beyond what you’re hearing in this thread. Playing 5 on the field is perfectly viable, as long as you run builds that can drill through the far-point defenders quickly.

Movement and positioning on this map is crucial. Far from being engi/necro/guardian and no one else, eles and thieves do very well by chain-roaming and decapping points, avoiding fights except to bait cannon shots.

Teams can respond to this roam-reponse by unloading their cannon-room, which then makes the cannon vulnerable for capture.

Overall, the mechanics are a lot more interesting than this thread would have you believe. The only issue that I would mention is that it isn’t immediately obvious that you can dodge roll into your interaction with the warpgate, which clears necromarks off the entrance. If you could do something to show the cannon room through the backside of the warpgate so that you had some inkling of what you were engaging into , that would be nice.

1) The map looks beautiful. Fits the asuras. We got a norm map already, im hoping for a sylvari forest soon

2) The laz0r is too strong. IMO the balance should be similar to trebs.
a) have 1 person firint the treb/canon unidisturbed, then u should win
b) have 2 persons in treb room whole match should make your team lose the 3v5 on the actual map.

In any case, it needs less dmg, smaller AoE- especialy since its easy to aim. And a slower turning rate. Maybe even a 1 PERSON/TEAM – LIMIT on canon- a clear 1v1 showdown which can tourn around anytime is entartaining to watch.

3) 1-hit-KO pads. I love them (atm). Some dont.
*I only dont like the engie imobilize+knockback rifle combo. I find it too easy to land + u cant stunbreak the immobilize or the “Launch-moving” part. Maybe allowing stunbreak/or just stability to “Instantly reduce momentum to 0” could be implemented. U would need fast reflexes though.

4) VERTICAL GAMEPLAY. SORRY FOR CAPS BUT MORE MUST SEE THIS

Most CC-Knockbacks are melee and while they have a random chance of insta-kill, u can punish them from ledges if u play smart. A mostly underlooked aspect.

The ledges above each point could be SEMI-SAFE SPOTS, since u are giving up the point. A smaller AoE would allow this. Unleess the lazer is targeted on them, then the point could be safe spot.

I really like this map.

At first I hated it because I didn’t understand it, but now I love it.

It’s about using the environment to win instead of just zerging and assisting and killing people.

Don’t take the map out of rotation, it’s fun.

It also promotes build diversity. I run a completely different build for this map.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa8YlUmyOXbS2E95EC3DjypaKPFOIa1pAr2KA-TwAA1CtIYSxkjJDTSmsMN+YRy+jZDA

Traps + SW instead of the usual 10/30/0/0/30 burst build with shadowstep/refuge/assasin signet etc.

It’s a good change from the usual gameplay, IMO.

I think this map is great, and promotes creative gameplay and the use of some lesser used utilities and traits.

I have a couple of changes that would make the map even more awesome than it already is:

1) allow casting of abilities while in the air. Right now jumping on a jump pad is almost like CCing yourself. Also if you run onto a jump pad while using an ability it interrupts it. At least allow abilities to finish if you hit a jump pad, that would make it consistent with jumping off ledges and such.

2) improve layout of the cannon room to reduce camera occlusion. It can get really annoying to try to position yourself to avoid knockbacks while also being able to see anything because of how the terrain up there re-positions your camera! One suggestion is to make the portal in a flat portal laying on the ground (like mesmer portal) and put a small fence behind it (like at khylo side nodes) that you could stand against.

Otherwise be sure to fix the bugs: there should be no immune/stealth channeling of the cannon, no being immune to CC on the cannon etc.

To many methods to fall to your death.

I’m running triple stability and it’s still rough.

You feel utterly cheated out of a win if someone does 1 large knockback (ranger longbow for example).

IDK, feels corny, don’t appreciate it in tPvP right off the bat.

A map the favors so few professions encourages degenerate team comps. This is the antithesis of good design and balance.

I don’t care what’s done with this map as long as it’s removed from Tournament play. tPvP should be a place where group composition isn’t restricted to 2-3 professions. I can’t get any more constructive than that, because I’m upset that my monthly gem purchase money went to this. I care about the pvp community and Skyhammer is quite insulting to players who have invested time into playing and promoting your game.

Seems people can’t learn to play. Too many 1 v 1 s and 1 v 2s on maps like Spirit Watch and Skyhammer I guess. RIP the best of the maps. These secondary mechanics really change the games up. No longer can players just focus on holding points and killing players but have to actually fight off point over a cannon or an orb. These are the things that make the game interesting. Hopefully more valuable secondary mechanics can enter the game unlike kyhlo, forest, and foefire.

I’ve said it in another thread but I’ll put it here too:

Make the backside of the sidepoints accessible with the jumping pad there. You can jump one level higher, but you can’t get on the highest one.
The one with the glass platform on it.
This way you can come from behind if the other team has someone on it. As a necro I just stand on far point, on the edge of that glass platform and can fearlock people coming inside the node.

Skyhammer is a brilliant map, finally something else!

Great map, probably the best so far. I really hope nothing will be changed. Finally it’s just not about dull boring team fights. Here you can use so many different tricks, and all professions can work just fine, as long as you use your brain and play good.

I didn’t change any of my builds for this map. Anything works, it’s all about how you play and how you position yourself. It’s really amazing map and it is a sad thing that they’ll change it and nerf cannon etc. And it’s even more sad that they removed it from the rated match rotation.

Seriously, bring back Spirit Watch and Skyhammer to rotation. So what if they get buggy sometimes? They’re fun to play and they’re different than the other maps. What’s the difference between Forest and Legacy? None really. Same goes for Temple. Khylo is a bit different because of the treb but yeah.. need more diversity and that’s why you should keep both Skyhammer and Spirit Watch in rotation. No one is getting real money from playing them, so small flaws shouldn’t really matter.

EDIT: I’ve been playing PvP here a lot. Rank 45 (glory) with only doing 100 Hot Join games in total, rest were tourneys, or so called rated matches, so the glory wasn’t really farmed. Anyway my point is, I know what I’m talking about. Now go make me happy and bring cool maps back to rotation. Thanks!

Every map so far has had some tweaks to make it viable, I think the same can happen to Skyhammer. It’s a very fun map imo.

What I would change is the following:

- Make the cannon dodgeable, but if the red team is firing the laser would show red and if the blue team is firing it would show up blue and this is visible to both teams. That way it is telegraphed so people can cc a player to make him unable to dodge the cannon. Easy way to increase the skillcap imo.

- Make the cannon area slightly wider.

- Push the nodes slightly more away from the edge.

- Make the pannels take slightly longer to explode. That way not a single knockback would make you fall of, but rather a coordinated cc chain by teammates.

- Make the jump paths have less delay and not interrupt channeled skills.

Same thing with Temple and Spirit really they could also work.

For temple something has to be done about the underwater and also make the buff that rewards you for killing players better.

For spirit the orb runner needs his own stats and skills.

It is a map that favours crowd control skills. And i don’t see anything bad about that, cause all the other maps favour bunker builds and all the same, stale meta we’ve got until now.
If i really had to make a change, i would just remove one of the panel in the A/C points – probably the one nearest to the base (the other panel can be avoided by coming in from above, after all). To reduce the chance of people being pulled to death before the fight even starts. But even then, it is an equal risk for everyone…

for skyhammer just the fights on cannon are bad.
its to much random or much of luck and it is the most important fight there…
also much lames on the portal enter, because u can spam there groundtargets or some guardian hammer 5 or sanctuarys.

i think on cannon fights should the pannels be removed, dont know.
its fun, but lame to run fast about them and bubble with guard fast the enemy throw them.

and necros can port back if knocked down, feels not fair to other classes :P
also he can jump down with f1 and then come back throw the portal or jump down to the worms and make some pve :P

Please don’t allow the Skyhammer map to be in the tournament cycle any longer. It promotes un-skilled PVP and gimmicks and imposes a rigid meta in order to be successful. A part of me dies when I see myself grouped with another Warrior or Thief, but should I really feel that way? Is this what it comes down too, I’m just awaiting the luck of being on the same side as a necromancer or a guardian? If that’s the case then that’s proof of poor map design. And it really is the case.

Can you please take note that a simple map that promotes actual fighting is what the majority want, not a map filled with gimmicks and all style over substance. This game is attempting to be an e-sport, but fearing someone off a ledge and 1 shotting groups of people with a lazer is not the ingrediant for an e-sport.

Oidmetala.8426:

for skyhammer just the fights on cannon are bad.
its to much random or much of luck and it is the most important fight there…
also much lames on the portal enter, because u can spam there groundtargets or some guardian hammer 5 or sanctuarys.

i think on cannon fights should the pannels be removed, dont know.
its fun, but lame to run fast about them and bubble with guard fast the enemy throw them.

and necros can port back if knocked down, feels not fair to other classes :P
also he can jump down with f1 and then come back throw the portal or jump down to the worms and make some pve :P

maybe this is why i don’t like the map. I was on cannon duty for my team last night and it was either extremely tense or frustrating to miss a dodge and get shot to an insta death.

Sephius.2876:

Please don’t allow the Skyhammer map to be in the tournament cycle any longer. It promotes un-skilled PVP and gimmicks and imposes a rigid meta in order to be successful. A part of me dies when I see myself grouped with another Warrior or Thief, but should I really feel that way? Is this what it comes down too, I’m just awaiting the luck of being on the same side as a necromancer or a guardian? If that’s the case then that’s proof of poor map design. And it really is the case.

Can you please take note that a simple map that promotes actual fighting is what the majority want, not a map filled with gimmicks and all style over substance. This game is attempting to be an e-sport, but fearing someone off a ledge and 1 shotting groups of people with a lazer is not the ingrediant for an e-sport.

The map needs tweaks, but you shouldn’t be that upset about thieves on your team in this map. A thief can insta-gib people from the safety of stealth all day. Warriors do struggle, but they struggle everywhere. Really, I think Engineers are better than Guardians on this particular map, and Necros really aren’t all that strong (load up on stunbreaks and/or position well and/or gear to reduce condition and stun durations and they are a non-threat).

The mid node (B) on Sky Hammer is actually a pretty nice Team Fight node, the only issue is that the Cannon can completely obliterate a whole team trying to cap it, so you need to keep the Cannon occupied in order to take it (which isn’t that hard).

All in all, I think this is the most solo-que unfriendly map that has been devised, but there are a lot of really good things about it too.

1) It minimizes down-state
2) It allows for varying strategies from different comps that other maps cannot do.
3) While the 1-shots can be irritating the degree of team coordination that this map requires is a good thing. The secondary objective is important enough to force leaving nodes in order to secure it. Combine that with the quick turnover of fall deaths and it makes skillful rotation and communication across the whole map extremely important.

Remove all the holes, cover up all the walls with beams of energy that don’t let you get knocked off the ledges and keep the Skyhammer undodgeable.

That’s what I think should be done. Keeping the Skyhammer undodgeable forces people off the point and I think that is a mechanic that shouldn’t be lost.

^Or they can remove the whole map and make the treb in Kyhlo undodgeable.

1. Too many shattering floors
-They are awesome cos they make creative positioning such as ranged units stepping on it beforehand to set up a firing ground, it also weakens melee classes too much.
-Keep the shattering floors on the Skyhammer room, but keep the ones near capping points unbreakable.

2. I’m okay with Skyhammer’s canon DPS but it should be dodgable. The canon is an important factor, yes, but should not be the only decisive one

3. I have said it and I will say it again.
BRING SKYHAMMER BACK TO TPVP.
YOU MUST BRING IT BACK or I swear this will be biggest waste of your creative talents ever, ANet!!

Eurantien.4632:

Seems people can’t learn to play. Too many 1 v 1 s and 1 v 2s on maps like Spirit Watch and Skyhammer I guess. RIP the best of the maps. These secondary mechanics really change the games up. No longer can players just focus on holding points and killing players but have to actually fight off point over a cannon or an orb. These are the things that make the game interesting. Hopefully more valuable secondary mechanics can enter the game unlike kyhlo, forest, and foefire.

Exactly…..I never could understand why Spirit Watch was not brought back even after the Orb bug was fixed.

Now the tPvP map-pool is stuck with all the old maps. Except TotST….

Players like straightforward maps such as Kyhlo, I’m cool with that! But why position-heavy maps like Skyhammer need to be looked down upon like this!? This is nothing but brutes’ justice

I thought this to be one of the best maps for Tpvp. Tpvp is not all that good anyways because all the maps really have the same objective. Capturing and holding points is becoming real boring. This was a fun little map and made you think of ways to win other then holding points. Most of the time the team that held the cannon won. Great work on this map guys some of the matches the last few days where epic. I would really like for this game to step up the pvp. Need some more variety for sure. I really like the idea in Neverwinter for a three stage pvp match. I have played it and really enjoyed it. However GW2 is my game of choice. I wish there where more variety in tpvp/ pvp in this game. Everything from different styles of tournaments to bigger and better maps. Queuing for one match at a time in tournament is boring and time consuming. wish there was still an option for 3 match tournaments along with some fresh Ideas. I have many great ideas for this and should post more of the. but really wanted to weigh in on the Skyhammer map and how much I enjoyed playing it. Does it need some fixing, Sure! but its a top 2 or 3 map for sure.

Pyriall.5027:

CC still provides an advantage on EVERY map. Locking somoene out of a heal or cc’ing to coordinate burst is still strategic gameplay. If we’re going to promote 1 shotting people as skillful, let’s bring back all the burst classes that we’ve nullified. Bring back frenzy/hb, 100nades, 25 might stack shatters with double shatter, and back stab thieves. We can tell everyone to be skillful and l2dodge and position.

Instagib builds of the past were imbalanced for many reasons this map has not.
The main issues were that those builds were extremely hard to counter (positioning didn’t save you as it does in this map) and they were avaliable only to a restricted amount of professions.

You can easily create a balanced instagib meta as far as everyone is capable to instagib and the instagib can be prevented easily (which means harder to land on skilled players). There are a lots of example of well-made competitive games with instagib mechanics, FPS games on top of all.

There are 2 main issues with the map, both are easily fixed without dooming the entire map to hot-join only existance with Raid and Spirit Watch.

Both of these issues have been discussed frequently but they are worth mentioning again:

1 – The power of pulls/knock backs/imobilizes. On one hand this is great, it puts more emphasis on skillful CC use and allows for new builds and build variations. The problem isn’t the emphasis on CC but rather the reward. Death is far to harsh of a penalty for often a single mistake (not dodging 1 well placed KB or imob). The other issue is that this allows for heavy bunker builds to score fast kills. The longer a fight progresses the more chances a player has to land that 1 clutch CC, at that point it doesnt matter that you have been beating on him for 60 seconds and have finnaly exhausted all his CDs. I good CC ends the fight out right. It gives bunkers FAR to much power.

This issue isn’t too hard to fix (in theory, implementation would take some time). Instead of players dieing and being forced into a 2-3 second fall + death respawn. Instead add a lower level of the map with ports back to you spawn (or potentially more areas of the map?). Instead of falling to your death, having a ~20 sec death timer (in tPvP) and giving the enemy points, you would instead have to make a short run over to a port and renter the “main” map. This way good CC is still empahsised on the map and it is punished (thus leading to build variety) but the punishment fits the crime.

The seond issue is the strenght of the cannon. Khylo has made it very clear that "cannon"esque objectives need to be different in order for them to make large impacts and I think Skyhammer is a good start. However, and undodgeable, unblockable, cannon with a larger area of effect, easier targeting, faster fire rate, and more damage was NOT the answer.. lol.

Either allow it to be dodged/blocked or lower the damage (by alot). There are a lot of ways to “fix” the cannon and it’s mostly number tweaks that would require some testing.

With this being said the question that remains is:

Why even bother, what is good about Skyhammer?!

The answer: A lot of stuff…

I suppose more detail should be added to that statement.

The map promotes drastic build diversity. This is a GOOD thing. The same builds should not dominate every map. Teams should have multiple builds and multiple strats based on map and opponents team comp. Skyhammer is one of the most drastic maps from the “core 3”. The emphasis on CC, the size of the map, the ability to “neutralize” the effects of a bunker with good CC, and the power of the cannon all lead to a much more skirmish and agressive play style on the map (note agvressive != glassy per say). It’s different, and that’s good, fix the 2 big issues with the map and it will be massivly popular.

Last night I played some more on Skyhammer before ANet took it of rotation. When fighting in the middle of the maps, the vertical details, LOS and all that makes for fun and different matches. So it be nice if we could “tweak” this map and make it fit into tPvP. I have 2 suggestions.

1. Control Room changes. As many have mentioned the control room is way to small and as an attacker you major disadvantage. The Defender can see you coming and all the glass near the entrance makes it easy to CC the attacker. So make the room to be a little larger, and not so much glass right at the portal entrance.

OR simply mirror a 2nd portal on the opposite side of the control room. Have it random on which side a player enters. 1 portal on the map, but 2 portals in the control room. This would increase the room size as well. By having the entrance “random”, the defender wouldn’t be able to prepare any traps or whatever for the incoming attacker.

2. As many have stated the cannon blast is too powerful and too large and too short a cooldown. ANet can adjust the damage on any of those, but I was thinking of something different. Since this is this HUGE powerful Asura weapon, and we all know that Asura technology can’t be trusted. Why doesn’t the cannon blast “EVERYONE” in its radius.

Imagine both point attacker and defender having to disengage and re-engage over a control point. The Defender doesn’t sit back and let the cannon do its job. Now cannon fire needs to be coordinated/skilled and not just spammed on the point. Who’s ever running the cannon better know what he’s doing!

I think it would add a very different dynamic to the map/pvp.

My biggest gripes with Skyhammer would be the cannon is just too important to the entire game, it’s too damaging while also having precise aiming.
Another minor issue would be the cannon’s platform is annoying, camera clipping into the wall as your port up, and while fighting up there and get knocked back and feared all over the place.

I don’t mind the breaking glass, it takes some skill at least for players to maneuver you to fall to your death.

Also, I wouldn’t mind if the cannon was killable, people would need to think twice about what abilities they are using up by the cannon, and would allow teams to remove the cannon from play if they choose to.

sorrow.2364:

Pyriall.5027:

CC still provides an advantage on EVERY map. Locking somoene out of a heal or cc’ing to coordinate burst is still strategic gameplay. If we’re going to promote 1 shotting people as skillful, let’s bring back all the burst classes that we’ve nullified. Bring back frenzy/hb, 100nades, 25 might stack shatters with double shatter, and back stab thieves. We can tell everyone to be skillful and l2dodge and position.

Instagib builds of the past were imbalanced for many reasons this map has not.
The main issues were that those builds were extremely hard to counter (positioning didn’t save you as it does in this map) and they were avaliable only to a restricted amount of professions.

You can easily create a balanced instagib meta as far as everyone is capable to instagib and the instagib can be prevented easily (which means harder to land on skilled players). There are a lots of example of well-made competitive games with instagib mechanics, FPS games on top of all.

*cough*shootmania*cough*