Guild Wars 2

What would everyone think of reverting the Nerf, but “Shaving”(heueheuheuhue) them by changing the arming time by adding 3 seconds(concept value, but currently they go off almost instantly), or adding a casting time that lasts long enough for a player to react to it.
Currently the cast(I think) is 1/2 second, but increasing it to 3/4 second might be better, because it would allow for the other players brain to process(.25 seconds) and then time for them to physically move their finger to the interrupt key and press it.

In addition, cut trap cooldowns in half, but only allow the cooldown to begin after the trap goes off. This would incourage more offensive play, and cut down on full trap builds, because you would have a window(about 10 seconds) to actually get close to the guardian without getting bursted down by traps
(I say 10 seconds because I’m accounting for uptime of procession of blades and test of faith BTW)

Last season, I played DH exclusively, and as of late I have been playing thief, so I have seen both sides of the coin. How do the other dragonhunters here feel about this? Obviously nobody likes nerfs, but would something like this be tolerable? If you had to pick and choose a nerf, what would it be(I would guess having a longer cast time)?

Anyways, thanks for the read, and It would be great if this tead could remain clean and on topic. Thanks for your time.

I wouldn’t mind buffs to Guardian, but not to Dragonhunter and not to its traps.

DH is the 7th best class atm. It needs buffs.

DH is just the fancy icing on an extremely poorly constructed cake.

Fix the cake, aka base guardian traits and weapon skills.

I agree with the sentiment that core guard needs changes. Currently traps are a crutch. Can we keep the discussion on traps please?

Darknicrofia.2604:

DH is just the fancy icing on an extremely poorly constructed cake.

Fix the cake, aka base guardian traits and weapon skills.

Please this. Base guardian has stupidly places traits or traits that could be merged (Battle presence/resolve as a master tier trait). The weapons are clearly dated and could use some love and most certainly effectiveness/reliability boosts at the very minimum.

DH is fine and would be more fine if the base class was better.

Only thing about DH is problems with the daze trait. If they wanted to put a 1 second daze on Test of faith and change the trap secondary benefit to something else, that might not be so bad. That way the heal isn’t dazing, and the traps could be made better for team support to bolster support DHs, could work. Other than that though, I say work on base weapons, that’s what I want most.

Traps.

Currently traps invalidate thief, and it’s not a l2p issue. There is no way for a thief to deal good damage to a DH on point, even if I use up cooldowns(shadowstep in, trigger traps, back out) DH can just instantly re-apply them with 0 opening between.

on the “no viable builds” arguement, at least guard has 3 semi-viable builds, in the form of Medi-Trapper, Burn, and Bunker(Kind of)

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Traps.

Currently traps invalidate thief, and it’s not a l2p issue. There is no way for a thief to deal good damage to a DH on point, even if I use up cooldowns(shadowstep in, trigger traps, back out) DH can just instantly re-apply them with 0 opening between.

on the “no viable builds” arguement, at least guard has 3 semi-viable builds, in the form of Medi-Trapper, Burn, and Bunker(Kind of)

I’m pretty sure some would argue DD has more viability than DH do, just not as an on-point bruiser type class, even if not ideal. Revenant makes it hard to care either way.

This whole argument is a bit silly, so you have a counter in a low tier. Nerfing them more does pretty much no good for the game. People are allowed to have counters.

Also it is a little bit of a l2p issue. Picking your fights and knowing how/when to attack and where to go is very much so a l2p issue, especially as a thief, since that’s their entire role/niche.

I understand the value of picking fights, I do, but to say that I cant fight a class, because the mechanics of the game prevent me from doing so is absurd. Minimally, all I want is an extention to the cast time, so that I can interrupt it if I catch it in time, or a buff to the cooldowns, but a nerf to how they work, which would allow for a 10 second attack window. Currenty DH is skill-less, which everybody knows.

true guardian needs some shaving, they have that ridiculous beard on all their ability icons that feature their face

/15charsofagreement

Lexander.4579:

true guardian needs some shaving, they have that ridiculous beard on all their ability icons that feature their face

Yeah, buddy. “Save Yourselves”? More like “Shave Yourselves!” Amirite?!

ron, as (I presume) a DH, have you ever been killed by a DD? If so, how? I’d love to learn, because if there is a reliable way to beat one that I don’t know about I’ll delete this thread right now.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

ron, as (I presume) a DH, have you ever been killed by a DD? If so, how? I’d love to learn, because if there is a reliable way to beat one that I don’t know about I’ll delete this thread right now.

I play a lot of things, but yeah, one of which is a DH. One useful trick is to “bait” traps early on. You can dodge roll into a DHs location on a point and it will trigger any damage from initial trap releases and you won’t need to waste a teleport. Alternatively to be super safe you can dodge roll+double shadow step to clear it out without being potentially locked into the point. Once the big problem (Maw) is gone, if he even runs it over Renewal, you’re ok enough to engage normal combat. Watch for true shots and burst down between blocks. When they activate Courage, try to hit from behind, it will go through and often times even catch the guardian off guard (no pun intended), or alternatively you can just leave. In most cases DH aren’t as much about the “chase” game.

Two notes though: One, I don’t know your build, so specifics sort of varies. Secondly, DH are somewhat of a major counter, and seemingly by design. That’s not to say it’s hopeless though, it often comes down to baiting or +1ing them with heavy pressure (the common thief role), so while it may still be hard, the main thing is, it’s not hopeless with a few basic maneuvers that ultimately are the reason why DH are low-tier Kings but not as strong in higher tiers.

Predictability and minimal tricks reduce effectiveness the more you learn your own tricks against them. What typically makes a class dangerous is when they have less predictability or flexibility which isn’t an attribute I’d attribute to Guardian necessarily.

Also, most run trap heal. If you get a guardian low and you suspect a heal (I assume you’re using a SB), leave and plink them down and evade true shots. Maybe some near-edge cluster bombs. That’s a trick I’ve seen a few times when watching others play (haven’t had it done to me too often by Thieves specifically but I’ve seen it). Denying that clutch ~6k heal from the trap trigger can be a big turning point.

yeah, my problem seems to be that if I waste a few dodges I cant dodge true shot or disengage long enough to re-open on him

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

yeah, my problem seems to be that if I waste a few dodges I cant dodge true shot or disengage long enough to re-open on him

We could go into a 1v1 room and test some rotations and reactions for a bit if you want. I could replicate the more common build and attempt to stay on point as much as I can/is necessary.

I have a small little fix för Dh. Just make the trap cooldowns just a little bit longer, like 10 seconds or 5. Otherwise it is fine. (And i have played DH)

Nitrosiili.5628:

I have a small little fix för Dh. Just make the trap cooldowns just a little bit longer, like 10 seconds or 5. Otherwise it is fine. (And i have played DH)

That does nothing… DH are already literally near the bottom of usability. What good would this possibly do other than make it easier for people who don’t want to learn or try to kill something? O.o

The real question is why DH traps are not like thief/ranger traps or other way around….

Guardian needs buffs, but not to the traps…

can’t consistently get online until thursday ron, but thanks for the offer. I have a few guildies who main a DH, so I will be able to practice with them. What do you think about adding 1/2 a second to casting times?

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

can’t consistently get online until thursday ron, but thanks for the offer. I have a few guildies who main a DH, so I will be able to practice with them. What do you think about adding 1/2 a second to casting times?

I’m fine with it for Test of Faith (the one that seems to cause the most problems. Not for Shards, though. I hate hate hate CC breaks that have cast times. Courage already gets screwed enough because if it gets interrupted while casting it goes on full CD and no effect.

Overall, i think they should just change the trait though. Instead of .5 sec daze on all traps, have Test of Faith have a single 1 second daze, and make the trap trait cause Boons from traps to share with allies as well. That way, it aids support DH (something sort of lacking), and significantly cuts down the amount of dazes DH has.

I think that’d fix a lot more issues than people think. Then they can go work on the core class a bit. :P

basically what gets me is the combo of procession of blades + dragons maw, + true shot

if you’re losing to a DH that’s using 3 or 4 traps on his bar, it really is a L2P issue.

Darknicrofia.2604:

if you’re losing to a DH that’s using 3 or 4 traps on his bar, it really is a L2P issue.

yeah, how are people having trouble counterplaying invisible traps waiting to deal 100%-dead unblockable dmg in 2 seconds combined with daze, slow, immobilize and knockdown?

its so easy to counterplay!

Its pretty simple buff base guardian not DH.

The problem isn’t always l2p, it’s the amount of hassle you need to counterplay a class which functions just by pressing 2 buttons on recharge. It’s not a fair trade off imo. I seriously love the ideas of making guard more of a support bunker, because in low leagues they’re already used as such and I see some potential there, but nothing more then that atm. A simple class like DH that can annoyingly dictate the pace of matches in low tier is just meh

Darknicrofia.2604:

DH is just the fancy icing on an extremely poorly constructed cake.

Fix the cake, aka base guardian traits and weapon skills.

This ^

40%+ of the core guardian traits are crap and never used by any sane person.

The same goes for spirit weapons, signets and half the consecrations.

The hammer, staff, sword & scepter also all have numerous problems keeping them from shining.

Liewec.2896:

Darknicrofia.2604:

if you’re losing to a DH that’s using 3 or 4 traps on his bar, it really is a L2P issue.

yeah, how are people having trouble counterplaying invisible traps waiting to deal 100%-dead unblockable dmg in 2 seconds combined with daze, slow, immobilize and knockdown?

its so easy to counterplay!

All the traps can actually be blocked except the barrier on maw stoping you from just walking away (unless you have stability)

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Liewec.2896:

Darknicrofia.2604:

if you’re losing to a DH that’s using 3 or 4 traps on his bar, it really is a L2P issue.

yeah, how are people having trouble counterplaying invisible traps waiting to deal 100%-dead unblockable dmg in 2 seconds combined with daze, slow, immobilize and knockdown?

its so easy to counterplay!

All the traps can actually be blocked.

test of faith is unblockable, and healing trap, well even if its dodged or blocked it still heals the guardian so thats as good as undodgeable and unblockable, especially considering that in total it heals for a 8.6k whooping bullkitten HP + 1.3k regeneration

that makes 2 most used traps pretty much uncounterable and goes to show how much dhs themselves know about their class lol

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Traps.

Currently traps invalidate thief, and it’s not a l2p issue. There is no way for a thief to deal good damage to a DH on point, even if I use up cooldowns(shadowstep in, trigger traps, back out) DH can just instantly re-apply them with 0 opening between.

on the “no viable builds” arguement, at least guard has 3 semi-viable builds, in the form of Medi-Trapper, Burn, and Bunker(Kind of)

If you dodge the traps as soon as they trigger (they even have a daze if traited) you can avoid the entire damage of the trap and its effects.

If they are invisible that is a glitch and not so much a problem with the trap as is with Anet being too lazy to fix it.

As for the concept of traps in general before hit went into beta when they announced Dh would have traps many people begged them not to put them on DH.
They did this because Traps by their design are good for ambush against lower skill enemies but crap vs good players.
If they had simply made the DH use necro style marks or wells instead of traps they would
1: not be good for ambush style attacks
2: not be able to be placed before hand
but
3: Be ranged
4: Share boons granted with allies

This would have made them better for balance at both low and high end play.

Lexander.4579:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Liewec.2896:

Darknicrofia.2604:

if you’re losing to a DH that’s using 3 or 4 traps on his bar, it really is a L2P issue.

yeah, how are people having trouble counterplaying invisible traps waiting to deal 100%-dead unblockable dmg in 2 seconds combined with daze, slow, immobilize and knockdown?

its so easy to counterplay!

All the traps can actually be blocked.

test of faith is unblockable, and healing trap, well even if its dodged or blocked it still heals the guardian so thats as good as undodgeable and unblockable, especially considering that in total it heals for a 8.6k whooping bullkitten HP + 1.3k regeneration

that makes 2 most used traps pretty much uncounterable and goes to show how much dhs themselves know about their class lol

Actually test of faith can be blocked, they changed that a few weeks back.

The healing trap is a healing spell, if it could be dodged & make the guard get no healing then nobody would ever use it. It would also require the same downside be applied to the ranger trap heal thus making it crap.

Liewec.2896:

Darknicrofia.2604:

if you’re losing to a DH that’s using 3 or 4 traps on his bar, it really is a L2P issue.

yeah, how are people having trouble counterplaying invisible traps waiting to deal 100%-dead unblockable dmg in 2 seconds combined with daze, slow, immobilize and knockdown?

its so easy to counterplay!

only 1 trap has no cast time, that being test of faith, you’re never going to get hit by 4 traps at once unless you blindly jump on a node where a guardian is camping.

here’s a hint: if you see a guardian camping an empty node and you know for a fact he’s running full traps, ignore him and help out your team 5v4 the rest of his team.

so, like I said earlier, a guardian totally invalidates my class regardless of skill. I agree that core guard needs serious changes, but saying that traps should be left alone, as if there is a ‘limited amount’ of balance juice that the devs have to allocate is ridiculous. They need t nerf and buff through patches, and thye will, but only if the community tells them our input and can agree without infighting.

In your situation, even if core Guard gets buffs, traps are still the best utilities spike that guardians have access to, so the problem isnt fixed.

There needs to be at least some counterplay, because as is, there is no way for me to clear traps unless I build around it completely.

As I said in the first entry of this thread, put traps on a 10 second cooldown that only starts after the trap goes off, because most players dont have trouble with the traps the first time, its the second time, immediately after the first that gets people.

Guard has always been a counter to thf, that is not new. And DH even more so. It’s not impossible for a thf to kill a DH, but you have to be on top of your game. I’ve been killed by thieves before. If i were you i’d stop trying to pick fights with a DH unless you’re ready for it.

Something doesn’t need to be nerfed just because you can’t beat it.

PS: your suggestions are thoughtful, but people will not stop complaining about traps until they are as useless as thf traps. People simply do not like being bursted down by traps, and increasing the cool down wont change that perception. You will still get threads about people wanting the traps nerfed because they got killed by them. They also want the cc from dragon’s maw gone. People wont stop complaining until that cc is gone too.

1. Kuya What rank are you?
2. Yes, changing the cooldown would make a drastic change, beause it would allow fr a 10 second attack window in which skilled combat can happen

Read what i said. I didn’t say it wouldn’t make a change in gameplay. I said it wouldn’t make a change in complaints about DH traps on this forum.

Are you sure? Full trap wouldn’t be viable anymore, so they would be run less, which would result in less people being spiked to zero, which would result in less complaints and more balance

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Are you sure? Full trap wouldn’t be viable anymore, so they would be run less, which would result in less people being spiked to zero, which would result in less complaints and more balance

Full trap still isn’t viable, even now. At best they 1 shot a squishy guy every 60 seconds who comes barreling in. That’s not a reason to be nerfed. These traps are just like any other yolo-instagib build. They are annoying to die to, but after that, then what? A guardian would be adding close to nothing to a group anymore if they wasted all their traps like that.

Now, slightly (yes, slightly) lower cooldowns in favor of not going on CD until popped, I could maybe get behind that… That might fix some of the yoloer low-tier problems, but at the same time, guardian traits and weapons (non-DH) really need love right now. The class is holding onto an insta-gib low-tier niche thread. I’d gladly give up that threat for a nicely knitted sweater.

I agree with the idea of guardian buffs, and im glad that these changes seem agreeable. Its just incredibly frustrating that a guardian can just sit on point and kill me over and over, regardless of my own skill, simply because im playing a thief.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Are you sure? Full trap wouldn’t be viable anymore, so they would be run less, which would result in less people being spiked to zero, which would result in less complaints and more balance

Full trap isn’t viable right now. The only thing full trap builds have been good for on DH is killing players with little to no situational awareness.

or classes that are forced into playing full melee

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I agree with the idea of guardian buffs, and im glad that these changes seem agreeable. Its just incredibly frustrating that a guardian can just sit on point and kill me over and over, regardless of my own skill, simply because im playing a thief.

if you see a guardian sitting on an empty node, you don’t HAVE TO immediately rush in, your team isn’t going to immediately lose the match if you don’t charge in RIGHT THE EFF NOW.

a thief’s ability to 1v1 a DH with all cooldowns sitting on traps isn’t and shouldn’t be the determining factor on if DH needs fixing or not.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I agree with the idea of guardian buffs, and im glad that these changes seem agreeable. Its just incredibly frustrating that a guardian can just sit on point and kill me over and over, regardless of my own skill, simply because im playing a thief.

Same when I as a dh fight a scrapper or druid or retribution revenant or even some good necros and will never kill tempest