Guild Wars 2

Several of these specs are old friends in a new guise.

Straight outta Cantha, The Ritualist/Assassin, also know as Revenant. From the deserts of Elona, the Reaper, a Necromancer/Dervish. Carrying the flag for Old Ascalon, The Elementalist/Monk now called a Tempest. I might also argue that Daredevil is more-or-less an Assassin/Warrior.

We have reams of information on the GW1 wiki about how these class fit and are played in pve and pvp.

I think that ANET is moving in the right direction by adding sustain and lengthening fights. Now you need strategy and cool down management. I remember when the main strategy was: “sneak up on somebody and burst them as fast as possible.”

A more sustained fight forces one to do more than just hammer buttons and I imagine it makes balance more predictable.

As a brief sidelight: ANET might be able to “balance” the vanilla specs by allowing dual classes. I don’t want to even contemplate the mess that would be to set up though.

I’ve long thought that elite specs were basically making a dual-spec from gw1 by via dartboard.

Berserker is Warr/Ele
DH is Guard/Ranger
Tempest is Ele/Guard (as you said, E/Mo)
Druid is Ranger/Mo
Chrono, Scrapper, Reaper, DD, Herald are X/Warr

Ithilwen.1529:

I think that ANET is moving in the right direction by adding sustain and lengthening fights.

Conceptually, sure. But they’ve gone about it the wrong way. When you powercreep mechanics and make individual effects super strong, you only enforce hard-counters, which makes gameplay extremely boring. In the same vein, the stronger each skill on your bar is, the bigger the gap is going to be between an optimal and a slightly sub-optimal build.
If the goal is to lengthen fights (which is a design decision I would agree with), it should be done as a baseline thing – not by giving out more all-purpose panic buttons and super healing, but by reducing both damage and sustain across the board.

Ithilwen.1529:

I think that ANET is moving in the right direction by adding sustain and lengthening fights. Now you need strategy and cool down management. I remember when the main strategy was: “sneak up on somebody and burst them as fast as possible.”

That’s still a good 80% of fights though :P

Ithilwen.1529:

I think that ANET is moving in the right direction by adding sustain and lengthening fights. Now you need strategy and cool down management. I remember when the main strategy was: “sneak up on somebody and burst them as fast as possible.”

ANet is moving in the wrong direction. This is power creep. If damage was too high before, the correct move would to be reign it in – not start an arms race.

The problem with HoT specs is that they have so much sustain, they can screw up multiple times by using it poorly, but still survive. When mistakes and poor decisions don’t matter, PvP loses almost all its appeal.

For a healthy PvP experience, there always needs to be the question of “Do I use it now or save it?” With HoT specs, the answer is to spam it because it’ll be back soon enough and you can spam other stuff in the meantime.

@Exedore

You have a valid point of view, but I don’t agree. I find myself watching my opponent closer than ever. Recognizing what’s coming and picking the correct response is critical. This is much more true now than it was back in ’zerker meta days.

When the fight is over in the first second or two, there’s no time for real strategy or critical thought/observation. It’s all muscle memory and practiced response. “Fire all weapons.”

My Thai Chi teacher once told me that one of the reasons he had me practice as slow as possible was that speed covers mistakes, sloppy form.. a multitude of sins. I found it to be quite true.

On giving the whole issue more thought. I think this is ANET’s way of reintroducing dual classes. Like the trait lines, the choices have been narrowed to give more standardized and easier to control combinations.

I’m guessing that the next expac will introduce new combo specs and possibly a return to Cantha.

Now you need strategy and cool down management

So, now they just basically need a game, 4 years into live play?

Uh, good luck with that.

Exedore.6320:

Ithilwen.1529:

I think that ANET is moving in the right direction by adding sustain and lengthening fights. Now you need strategy and cool down management. I remember when the main strategy was: “sneak up on somebody and burst them as fast as possible.”

ANet is moving in the wrong direction. This is power creep. If damage was too high before, the correct move would to be reign it in – not start an arms race.

The problem with HoT specs is that they have so much sustain, they can screw up multiple times by using it poorly, but still survive. When mistakes and poor decisions don’t matter, PvP loses almost all its appeal.

For a healthy PvP experience, there always needs to be the question of “Do I use it now or save it?” With HoT specs, the answer is to spam it because it’ll be back soon enough and you can spam other stuff in the meantime.

This. So much this.

Previous game I played, some skills had 10-15 minute cooldowns. For some people, that meant once in a GvG of 200 people. The typical high-yield abilities capable of killing someone hovered at around two minutes. There were more skills, but the pace was determined by how you timed your skill use. There were no rotations, because you’d be on two to five+ minutes of consecutive downtime if you did, or you’d be way too slow when your opponent had a brief gap opened.

This let fights turn longer if the players were both really good, but let people also get completely executed since getting one/two-shotted wasn’t impossible from a number of builds, either.

Powercreeping GW2 professions via elite specs isn’t the way to go, especially since it indirectly nerfs core builds which aren’t the best options based on pseudo-required trait lines or utilities. This just reduces the number of options in the end.

I actually think the pacing in sPvP is still too slow. Because people don’t die fast enough with the lowered offensive stats/damage potential (an upwards of 60% from WvW depending on profession/build), it over-punishes the value in building offensively, and thus, as compensation (and as we’ve seen in HoT), elites get tons of innate/high-damage abilities but even more buffed defenses to compensate being incapable of bunkering.

Not to mention that boons themselves are imbalanced between sPvP and PvE/WvW, such that the weight of each boon in sPvP is way more significant than WvW since again, the stats themselves from gear/amulets are just so much lower in sPvP.

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

I’ve long thought that elite specs were basically making a dual-spec from gw1 by via dartboard.

Berserker is Warr/Ele
DH is Guard/Ranger
Tempest is Ele/Guard (as you said, E/Mo)
Druid is Ranger/Mo
Chrono, Scrapper, Reaper, DD, Herald are X/Warr

Well said, i’ve played a w/e back in GW1 and now i enjoy berserker a lot.

This is the reason i supposed.

Ithilwen.1529:

I think that ANET is moving in the right direction by adding sustain and lengthening fights. Now you need strategy and cool down management. I remember when the main strategy was: “sneak up on somebody and burst them as fast as possible.”

A more sustained fight forces one to do more than just hammer buttons and I imagine it makes balance more predictable.

Part of the problem with the current HoT builds is not the sustain, but the fact that some builds seem to have infinite sustain. I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves. Even the best players should have some weaknesses other than a CC hell. E/Mo’s in GW1 could die, and even the 55 Monk tanks could die with boon stripping or enough conditions/hexes. On my scrapper, I can survive 2 players provided there’s no CC hell. That suggests that defense is simply too powerful right now — I’m not a tank, but I can handle 2 people.

And the sustain breaks maps like Temple of the Silent Storm — Tanks make it near impossible to capture meditation or tranquility (and you can’t leave either, lest they capture it). People simply last long enough for somebody else to come along. If the boons weren’t interrupted by any damage, it might be better.

As others have suggested, this is power creep in a nutshell. By swinging the pendulum so hard to sustain, anything that isn’t sustain becomes inferior. It makes maps like Spirit Watch and Temple of the Silent Storm out of date and incompatible with the game mechanics.

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Straight up power revs give me a massive headache 1v1 as an ele. Rev+Necro focus is almost instant GG as you can’t protect both aspects at once. You can mitigate direct damage with the right skills, and condi with the right skills, but trying to do both at once is a disaster.
Perhaps the issue is too much adherence to the condi spam that ele is designed to counter?

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

kittening boon corrupt on an auto… ;-;

Ubik.8315:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

kittening boon corrupt on an auto… ;-;

Yea it’s funny, I always like to stay a bit after the match just to see how many boons I removed with my auto attack alone since I don’t even bring any of the boon removals on traits and utility’s and I usually remove like some where in the upper 70’s boons only from my auto attack >.<
And I’ve noticed that smart ele’s take off running in the other direction whenever a necro/reaper approaches them.

Ellie.5913:

Yea it’s funny, I always like to stay a bit after the match just to see how many boons I removed with my auto attack alone since I don’t even bring any of the boon removals on traits and utility’s and I usually remove like some where in the upper 70’s boons only from my auto attack >.<
And I’ve noticed that smart ele’s take off running in the other direction whenever a necro/reaper approaches them.

If they have a scepter, there’s no way I want to fight them on ele. On my DH, I’ll be happy to fight them.

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

The problem is that they have infinity sustained burst damage.
The strategy is just go and faceroll.

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

That just means that particular ele is better at his/her job than you are at yours, it happens. Maybe they’ve been playing longer than you or are just naturally better at the game than you, but it doesn’t mean EVERY ele in the game is as super pro as the one/ ones you are talking about. Most ele’s I’ve come across, including my own are very squishy.

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

That just means that particular ele is better at his/her job than you are at yours, it happens. Maybe they’ve been playing longer than you or are just naturally better at the game than you, but it doesn’t mean EVERY ele in the game is as super pro as the one/ ones you are talking about. Most ele’s I’ve come across, including my own are very squishy.

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

That just means that particular ele is better at his/her job than you are at yours, it happens. Maybe they’ve been playing longer than you or are just naturally better at the game than you, but it doesn’t mean EVERY ele in the game is as super pro as the one/ ones you are talking about. Most ele’s I’ve come across, including my own are very squishy.

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Handle 2 players at once….what about my reaper who can not only handle/uselessly tank but can actually kill 2 players at once? Heck if we’re gonna get rid of 1 thing that people call over powered we might as well get rid of them all. Tbh I hate playing ele, I’m never very successful with it, I think it needs buffs, the current ele build everyone is using doesn’t kill anything and if you’re not REALLY good at it and have an organized premade to back you up it’s even difficult to stay alive on it. So yea I’d say the most successful tempests are the ones who have their own organized team the rest not so great. And anyone who has a really good organized premade is gonna beat most of their opponents, that’s something a lot of people seem to over look whenever they complain about a certain class/ build being over powered.

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

That just means that particular ele is better at his/her job than you are at yours, it happens. Maybe they’ve been playing longer than you or are just naturally better at the game than you, but it doesn’t mean EVERY ele in the game is as super pro as the one/ ones you are talking about. Most ele’s I’ve come across, including my own are very squishy.

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Handle 2 players at once….what about my reaper who can not only handle/uselessly tank but can actually kill 2 players at once? Heck if we’re gonna get rid of 1 thing that people call over powered we might as well get rid of them all. Tbh I hate playing ele, I’m never very successful with it, I think it needs buffs, the current ele build everyone is using doesn’t kill anything and if you’re not REALLY good at it and have an organized premade to back you up it’s even difficult to stay alive on it. So yea I’d say the most successful tempests are the ones who have their own organized team the rest not so great. And anyone who has a really good organized premade is gonna beat most of their opponents, that’s something a lot of people seem to over look whenever they complain about a certain class/ build being over powered.

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro. That’s a matter of experience. I’m talking builds that require relatively little experience but can still tank 2+ people, and be obnoxious enough to add CC’s and condi to the mix.

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

That just means that particular ele is better at his/her job than you are at yours, it happens. Maybe they’ve been playing longer than you or are just naturally better at the game than you, but it doesn’t mean EVERY ele in the game is as super pro as the one/ ones you are talking about. Most ele’s I’ve come across, including my own are very squishy.

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Handle 2 players at once….what about my reaper who can not only handle/uselessly tank but can actually kill 2 players at once? Heck if we’re gonna get rid of 1 thing that people call over powered we might as well get rid of them all. Tbh I hate playing ele, I’m never very successful with it, I think it needs buffs, the current ele build everyone is using doesn’t kill anything and if you’re not REALLY good at it and have an organized premade to back you up it’s even difficult to stay alive on it. So yea I’d say the most successful tempests are the ones who have their own organized team the rest not so great. And anyone who has a really good organized premade is gonna beat most of their opponents, that’s something a lot of people seem to over look whenever they complain about a certain class/ build being over powered.

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro. That’s a matter of experience. I’m talking builds that require relatively little experience but can still tank 2+ people, and be obnoxious enough to add CC’s and condi to the mix.

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Only 4 and only for 30 sec? Those aren’t “good ones”. Those are average ones.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Ubik.8315:

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve seen Tempest tanks merrily tank 3 skilled players by themselves.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

All you need is 1 good necro to take out a tempest, my reaper sometimes solo kills 2 people at a time and quite easily.

You’re playing against some bad tempests then. All the ones I’ve fought on my necro can happily tank them (yes, I am using meta corruption builds and scepter auto attack) and then they kite away whenever they feel remotely threatened.

I would hesitate to say that three players, assuming they’re not also aurabot tempests or healer druids failing to kill one tempest are as “skilled” as you want to believe.

Ever played against Gin Heartily, #2 on the leaderboards last I checked? She runs some kind of staff tank build (I don’t know the specifics). I’ve seen CC hell warriors and meta necros stack on her… and she just tanks it all.

That just means that particular ele is better at his/her job than you are at yours, it happens. Maybe they’ve been playing longer than you or are just naturally better at the game than you, but it doesn’t mean EVERY ele in the game is as super pro as the one/ ones you are talking about. Most ele’s I’ve come across, including my own are very squishy.

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Handle 2 players at once….what about my reaper who can not only handle/uselessly tank but can actually kill 2 players at once? Heck if we’re gonna get rid of 1 thing that people call over powered we might as well get rid of them all. Tbh I hate playing ele, I’m never very successful with it, I think it needs buffs, the current ele build everyone is using doesn’t kill anything and if you’re not REALLY good at it and have an organized premade to back you up it’s even difficult to stay alive on it. So yea I’d say the most successful tempests are the ones who have their own organized team the rest not so great. And anyone who has a really good organized premade is gonna beat most of their opponents, that’s something a lot of people seem to over look whenever they complain about a certain class/ build being over powered.

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro. That’s a matter of experience. I’m talking builds that require relatively little experience but can still tank 2+ people, and be obnoxious enough to add CC’s and condi to the mix.

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Only 4 and only for 30 sec? Those aren’t “good ones”. Those are average ones.

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Ellie.5913:

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Have you ever played against ele?
And yeah, druids is pretty broken too. Can’t fight them, can’t fight their pet. Only chance against druids is to reroll as ele or herald.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Ellie.5913:

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Have you ever played against ele?
And yeah, druids is pretty broken too. Can’t fight them, can’t fight their pet. Only chance against druids is to reroll as ele or herald.

Yea like i’ve said, I’ve played against ele I’ve played as ele and i’ve had ele’s on my team….. none of them were very tanky, and didn’t keep anything alive either and sure as heck didn’t kill anything. You guys must be talking about ele’s in legendary or ele’s that have a premade team. I’m a solo player.

Vagrant.7206:

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro.

The same is true with eles. Yes, it is a tanky build, but it’s by no means unkillable. And to achieve that level of tankiness, it has to sacrifice most of the class’ damage potential.

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Unless those 4 people don’t know what they’re doing, it’s much less than 30 seconds. Specifically, it’s until obsidian flesh ends. If you said 3, i’d believe you, assuming ele is a bit more skilled (depending on class composition, and if there’s no cc flying around – but then, lately there’s always some cc flying around), but 4 people focusing properly are going to kill that ele very fast, unless they are really bad.

Vagrant.7206:

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Really? By most accounts N+1 gameplay is considered bad, largely as I understand it because N+1 gameplay fails to reward a player for skill.

Astralporing.1957:

Vagrant.7206:

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro.

The same is true with eles. Yes, it is a tanky build, but it’s by no means unkillable. And to achieve that level of tankiness, it has to sacrifice most of the class’ damage potential.

I’ve played the supposed “hard counters” to tank eles (Necro Scepter, Thief S/D). The result is that it usually only takes 2-3 of us to down the ele. If they’re particularly bad, I can do it myself on a hard counter. But vs. a skilled tank ele player, it often takes 2 hard counter classes. When you have to plan 2 hard counters to 1 player, that results in a strategic imbalance, because those 2 often have to give up other abilities or strengths.

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Unless those 4 people don’t know what they’re doing, it’s much less than 30 seconds. Specifically, it’s until obsidian flesh ends. If you said 3, i’d believe you, assuming ele is a bit more skilled (depending on class composition, and if there’s no cc flying around – but then, lately there’s always some cc flying around), but 4 people focusing properly are going to kill that ele very fast, unless they are really bad.

The best ele I’ve played against (#1 on the leaderboards right now, FYI) could tank 4 people by herself pretty handily. She might have to leave the point to return a little bit later, but generally won’t die unless there are 2 or more hard counters. The worst I’ve played against could handle 2 decent players who weren’t hard counters. Obviously there is variation based on skill, but a single player shouldn’t be able to make the entire match lopsided.

Really? By most accounts N+1 gameplay is considered bad, largely as I understand it because N+1 gameplay fails to reward a player for skill.

Not sure what you mean by this?

Ellie.5913:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Ellie.5913:

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Have you ever played against ele?
And yeah, druids is pretty broken too. Can’t fight them, can’t fight their pet. Only chance against druids is to reroll as ele or herald.

Yea like i’ve said, I’ve played against ele I’ve played as ele and i’ve had ele’s on my team….. none of them were very tanky, and didn’t keep anything alive either and sure as heck didn’t kill anything. You guys must be talking about ele’s in legendary or ele’s that have a premade team. I’m a solo player.

I also play solo queue, but I’m in legendary rank. Low levels were generally a joke until Diamond rank (nobody is particularly good at strategy at low levels), and after I hit Diamond and Legendary, you simply could not afford to not bring a hard counter to ele tanks, unless you brought your own ele tank(s).

Vagrant.7206:

Astralporing.1957:

Vagrant.7206:

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro.

The same is true with eles. Yes, it is a tanky build, but it’s by no means unkillable. And to achieve that level of tankiness, it has to sacrifice most of the class’ damage potential.

I’ve played the supposed “hard counters” to tank eles (Necro Scepter, Thief S/D). The result is that it usually only takes 2-3 of us to down the ele. If they’re particularly bad, I can do it myself on a hard counter. But vs. a skilled tank ele player, it often takes 2 hard counter classes. When you have to plan 2 hard counters to 1 player, that results in a strategic imbalance, because those 2 often have to give up other abilities or strengths.

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Unless those 4 people don’t know what they’re doing, it’s much less than 30 seconds. Specifically, it’s until obsidian flesh ends. If you said 3, i’d believe you, assuming ele is a bit more skilled (depending on class composition, and if there’s no cc flying around – but then, lately there’s always some cc flying around), but 4 people focusing properly are going to kill that ele very fast, unless they are really bad.

The best ele I’ve played against (#1 on the leaderboards right now, FYI) could tank 4 people by herself pretty handily. She might have to leave the point to return a little bit later, but generally won’t die unless there are 2 or more hard counters. The worst I’ve played against could handle 2 decent players who weren’t hard counters. Obviously there is variation based on skill, but a single player shouldn’t be able to make the entire match lopsided.

Really? By most accounts N+1 gameplay is considered bad, largely as I understand it because N+1 gameplay fails to reward a player for skill.

Not sure what you mean by this?

Ellie.5913:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Ellie.5913:

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Have you ever played against ele?
And yeah, druids is pretty broken too. Can’t fight them, can’t fight their pet. Only chance against druids is to reroll as ele or herald.

Yea like i’ve said, I’ve played against ele I’ve played as ele and i’ve had ele’s on my team….. none of them were very tanky, and didn’t keep anything alive either and sure as heck didn’t kill anything. You guys must be talking about ele’s in legendary or ele’s that have a premade team. I’m a solo player.

I also play solo queue, but I’m in legendary rank. Low levels were generally a joke until Diamond rank (nobody is particularly good at strategy at low levels), and after I hit Diamond and Legendary, you simply could not afford to not bring a hard counter to ele tanks, unless you brought your own ele tank(s).

So far I haven’t seen any really good ele’s that actually help keep their teammates alive & can survive too long against more than 1 person, usually if 2 people attack them simultaneously they die pretty fast( since I’m not in legendary and don’t play on premades) But if they do exist some where, I think that’s a good thing. I’d be VERY happy if I had some one on my team like that, all this going in and party wiping in 2 seconds rez go in die fast again and repeat over and over and over thing is incredibly boring and really makes me not enjoy playing. I find games that allow me to stay alive long enough to at least cast a few times way more fun. This game used to have MANY viable healer/supporters and they all got nerfed into non existence, they should un nerf all the support builds on various classes so we can have more of that and so ele’s who don’t want to play support don’t have to. Like I’ve said many times before, all the things that got nerfed over the years should get un nerfed so people can have a lot more builds to choose from on each profession, and put back all the amulets and runes that got removed. All the core skills/builds that have been nerfed to death REALLY need to be un nerfed since HoT builds are way stronger.

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Astralporing.1957:

Vagrant.7206:

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro.

The same is true with eles. Yes, it is a tanky build, but it’s by no means unkillable. And to achieve that level of tankiness, it has to sacrifice most of the class’ damage potential.

I’ve played the supposed “hard counters” to tank eles (Necro Scepter, Thief S/D). The result is that it usually only takes 2-3 of us to down the ele. If they’re particularly bad, I can do it myself on a hard counter. But vs. a skilled tank ele player, it often takes 2 hard counter classes. When you have to plan 2 hard counters to 1 player, that results in a strategic imbalance, because those 2 often have to give up other abilities or strengths.

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Unless those 4 people don’t know what they’re doing, it’s much less than 30 seconds. Specifically, it’s until obsidian flesh ends. If you said 3, i’d believe you, assuming ele is a bit more skilled (depending on class composition, and if there’s no cc flying around – but then, lately there’s always some cc flying around), but 4 people focusing properly are going to kill that ele very fast, unless they are really bad.

The best ele I’ve played against (#1 on the leaderboards right now, FYI) could tank 4 people by herself pretty handily. She might have to leave the point to return a little bit later, but generally won’t die unless there are 2 or more hard counters. The worst I’ve played against could handle 2 decent players who weren’t hard counters. Obviously there is variation based on skill, but a single player shouldn’t be able to make the entire match lopsided.

Really? By most accounts N+1 gameplay is considered bad, largely as I understand it because N+1 gameplay fails to reward a player for skill.

Not sure what you mean by this?

Ellie.5913:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Ellie.5913:

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Have you ever played against ele?
And yeah, druids is pretty broken too. Can’t fight them, can’t fight their pet. Only chance against druids is to reroll as ele or herald.

Yea like i’ve said, I’ve played against ele I’ve played as ele and i’ve had ele’s on my team….. none of them were very tanky, and didn’t keep anything alive either and sure as heck didn’t kill anything. You guys must be talking about ele’s in legendary or ele’s that have a premade team. I’m a solo player.

I also play solo queue, but I’m in legendary rank. Low levels were generally a joke until Diamond rank (nobody is particularly good at strategy at low levels), and after I hit Diamond and Legendary, you simply could not afford to not bring a hard counter to ele tanks, unless you brought your own ele tank(s).

So far I haven’t seen any really good ele’s that actually help keep their teammates alive & can survive too long against more than 1 person, usually if 2 people attack them simultaneously they die pretty fast( since I’m not in legendary and don’t play on premades) But if they do exist some where, I think that’s a good thing. I’d be VERY happy if I had some one on my team like that, all this going in and party wiping in 2 seconds rez go in die fast again and repeat over and over and over thing is incredibly boring and really makes me not enjoy playing. I find games that allow me to stay alive long enough to at least cast a few times way more fun. This game used to have MANY viable healer/supporters and they all got nerfed into non existence, they should un nerf all the support builds on various classes so we can have more of that and so ele’s who don’t want to play support don’t have to. Like I’ve said many times before, all the things that got nerfed over the years should get un nerfed so people can have a lot more builds to choose from on each profession, and put back all the amulets and runes that got removed. All the core skills/builds that have been nerfed to death REALLY need to be un nerfed since HoT builds are way stronger.

You’d be amazed, if you played from release of the core game. A lot of stuff has been buffed, particularly conditions. Originally, zerk meta was the only realistic way to do appreciable amounts of damage (and there was just as much condi/projectile hate back then too). There’s a couple core builds that are still viable today, and some have only slight changes with HoT. The current meditrapper build is actually just a reincarnation of the meditation build before HoT. There’s a necro build that uses only core skills that is highly rated on metabattle. The thief meta is just a slightly modified pre-HoT meta. There’s a condi engineer build that’s still viable since they changed condis pre-HoT. I wouldn’t say they’ve nerfed a lot, just the stuff that’s been OP. HoT adds some power creep though, which is never a good thing, because it begets more power creep.

And the eles you’re playing aren’t particularly good if they can’t handle 1 person on a tank build (especially given the current broken nature of tanks). That’s downright awful.

Vagrant.7206:

Ellie.5913:

Vagrant.7206:

Astralporing.1957:

Vagrant.7206:

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro.

The same is true with eles. Yes, it is a tanky build, but it’s by no means unkillable. And to achieve that level of tankiness, it has to sacrifice most of the class’ damage potential.

I’ve played the supposed “hard counters” to tank eles (Necro Scepter, Thief S/D). The result is that it usually only takes 2-3 of us to down the ele. If they’re particularly bad, I can do it myself on a hard counter. But vs. a skilled tank ele player, it often takes 2 hard counter classes. When you have to plan 2 hard counters to 1 player, that results in a strategic imbalance, because those 2 often have to give up other abilities or strengths.

Vagrant.7206:

I’ve played against good and bad tank eles. The bad ones can only handle 2 people, if there’s enough CC. The good ones? I’ve seen tank close to 4 at a time (for about 30 seconds), assuming nobody’s helping them.

Unless those 4 people don’t know what they’re doing, it’s much less than 30 seconds. Specifically, it’s until obsidian flesh ends. If you said 3, i’d believe you, assuming ele is a bit more skilled (depending on class composition, and if there’s no cc flying around – but then, lately there’s always some cc flying around), but 4 people focusing properly are going to kill that ele very fast, unless they are really bad.

The best ele I’ve played against (#1 on the leaderboards right now, FYI) could tank 4 people by herself pretty handily. She might have to leave the point to return a little bit later, but generally won’t die unless there are 2 or more hard counters. The worst I’ve played against could handle 2 decent players who weren’t hard counters. Obviously there is variation based on skill, but a single player shouldn’t be able to make the entire match lopsided.

Really? By most accounts N+1 gameplay is considered bad, largely as I understand it because N+1 gameplay fails to reward a player for skill.

Not sure what you mean by this?

Ellie.5913:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Ellie.5913:

Yea I don’t know what game you guys are playing but I’ve never seen an ele do that, not this season, most that I come across are very squishy. The most annoying things imo are druids with their constant seemingly non-stop cc spam AND healing,not to mention they can actually kill something.

Have you ever played against ele?
And yeah, druids is pretty broken too. Can’t fight them, can’t fight their pet. Only chance against druids is to reroll as ele or herald.

Yea like i’ve said, I’ve played against ele I’ve played as ele and i’ve had ele’s on my team….. none of them were very tanky, and didn’t keep anything alive either and sure as heck didn’t kill anything. You guys must be talking about ele’s in legendary or ele’s that have a premade team. I’m a solo player.

I also play solo queue, but I’m in legendary rank. Low levels were generally a joke until Diamond rank (nobody is particularly good at strategy at low levels), and after I hit Diamond and Legendary, you simply could not afford to not bring a hard counter to ele tanks, unless you brought your own ele tank(s).

So far I haven’t seen any really good ele’s that actually help keep their teammates alive & can survive too long against more than 1 person, usually if 2 people attack them simultaneously they die pretty fast( since I’m not in legendary and don’t play on premades) But if they do exist some where, I think that’s a good thing. I’d be VERY happy if I had some one on my team like that, all this going in and party wiping in 2 seconds rez go in die fast again and repeat over and over and over thing is incredibly boring and really makes me not enjoy playing. I find games that allow me to stay alive long enough to at least cast a few times way more fun. This game used to have MANY viable healer/supporters and they all got nerfed into non existence, they should un nerf all the support builds on various classes so we can have more of that and so ele’s who don’t want to play support don’t have to. Like I’ve said many times before, all the things that got nerfed over the years should get un nerfed so people can have a lot more builds to choose from on each profession, and put back all the amulets and runes that got removed. All the core skills/builds that have been nerfed to death REALLY need to be un nerfed since HoT builds are way stronger.

You’d be amazed, if you played from release of the core game. A lot of stuff has been buffed, particularly conditions. Originally, zerk meta was the only realistic way to do appreciable amounts of damage (and there was just as much condi/projectile hate back then too). There’s a couple core builds that are still viable today, and some have only slight changes with HoT. The current meditrapper build is actually just a reincarnation of the meditation build before HoT. There’s a necro build that uses only core skills that is highly rated on metabattle. The thief meta is just a slightly modified pre-HoT meta. There’s a condi engineer build that’s still viable since they changed condis pre-HoT. I wouldn’t say they’ve nerfed a lot, just the stuff that’s been OP. HoT adds some power creep though, which is never a good thing, because it begets more power creep.

And the eles you’re playing aren’t particularly good if they can’t handle 1 person on a tank build (especially given the current broken nature of tanks). That’s downright awful.

I have been playing since release, I bought this game and started playing it on the day that it got released. And I had WAY more fun builds back then, also had many options that all worked very well, and I was very good at some of the support builds they had back then which no 1 uses now because they were nerfed to death, and amulets got removed. There’s no where near as many viable options now as there used to be, and the current builds everyone uses aren’t that fun imo. Not to mention solo queue and team queue were separate, so I wasn’t farmed by organized premades while playing as a solo player with a random pug team.

Vagrant.7206:

Astralporing.1957:

Vagrant.7206:

The people you’re killing on your necro probably don’t know how to handle the necro.

The same is true with eles. Yes, it is a tanky build, but it’s by no means unkillable. And to achieve that level of tankiness, it has to sacrifice most of the class’ damage potential.

I’ve played the supposed “hard counters” to tank eles (Necro Scepter, Thief S/D). The result is that it usually only takes 2-3 of us to down the ele. If they’re particularly bad, I can do it myself on a hard counter. But vs. a skilled tank ele player, it often takes 2 hard counter classes.

That means there’s a significant skill disparity between ele and those players. Hardcounters are called that for a reason.
(though yeah, i never said killing ele 1v1 would be really fast. Still, it’s not like ele can do anything to you either).

Vagrant.7206:

The best ele I’ve played against (#1 on the leaderboards right now, FYI) could tank 4 people by herself pretty handily. She might have to leave the point to return a little bit later, but generally won’t die unless there are 2 or more hard counters.

That’s some massive skill disparity there. Also, with 4 people, there should have been enough cc to finish that fight very fast, so it’s not only the ele being really good, but the 4 people not being very coordinated.

Tl/DR: yeah, spamming random buttons agains a good ele will not work. But then, it shouldn’t.

I play solo Q with non meta ele builds. And it´s often unpredictable.
I usualy can hold 1:2 a while unless a necro corupts my boons … 1:3 is just unrealistic. I can even die within seconds in a teamfight if focused.
On the other side i nearly won a 1:4 using viper amulet ….. I dowend 3 of them …. And i think it was early saphire match … So mostly it´s L2P. Diversity is still at the botom :-(
To stacking classes. Basically it´s enjoyable, but some classes doubled have to much impact. If a team picks double ele you basicaly need to use a counter, like corupt necro and high power damage dealer focusing, or will run against a wall. It would result in team compositions deciding most of the match.

Daredevil is not assassin/warrior, its what thief should’ve been from the very beginning given the terrible base hp/def of the class extra dodges have been essential for the class from the beginning and old feline grace from acro spec is a good proof of that

revenant on the other hand is the actual assassin/warrior with their bullkitten straightforward damage and straightforward sustain

Astralporing.1957:

That’s some massive skill disparity there. Also, with 4 people, there should have been enough cc to finish that fight very fast, so it’s not only the ele being really good, but the 4 people not being very coordinated.

Tl/DR: yeah, spamming random buttons agains a good ele will not work. But then, it shouldn’t.

I’m certainly willing to admit skill disparity (after all, I still lose to people with identical builds because their timing is better and they make fewer mistakes), but enough skill disparity to outtank 4 players? I find that very difficult to believe without an imbalance in the mechanics.

In a first person shooter or strategy game, I can believe that such skill disparities exist, because the playing field is level enough generally, and there is large enough room for such skill disparities to grow. But in Guild Wars 2? There’s an upper bound on skill disparity based on build. You’re telling me the only difference is skill disparity, but what I see is a broken build.

I don’t agree. Any 4 toons should have easily beaten a Tempest. Interrupt, and Conditions are the bane of the healer Ele.

If a tempest tanked 4, it was because the 4 had no clue.

Vagrant.7206:

I’m certainly willing to admit skill disparity (after all, I still lose to people with identical builds because their timing is better and they make fewer mistakes), but enough skill disparity to outtank 4 players? I find that very difficult to believe without an imbalance in the mechanics.

I’ll put it delicately here. 4 players should be able to spam and burst any build in this game, assuming they have a clue. With the cc options available all around, no build has enough immunities and stunbreakers to survive that. So either those 4 players were really bad, they had some subpar builds, they had some really bad combo of classes/builds, had no coordination whatsoever (but that brings us to them not being too good), or all of the above.

I my case they had three builds that were not particular good against me (like the ranger pulling the bow and me exactly swaping earth firing magnetic wave) and my phönix landed perfect ripping two nearly appart with multiple hits. I realy got them with perfect timing and gamplay. So luck was involved :-). But those moments are awesome. Well i did go down to the fouth (necro) but got a nice message that this was impressive. Of course this is not normal. Against three i normaly go down in flames very quick in viper :-). In this case i had no choice. Win or die. It was extremly close and only a decap could have stopped their victory and me the only in range. We lost by two points but …. nearly :-)

Astralporing.1957:

Vagrant.7206:

I’m certainly willing to admit skill disparity (after all, I still lose to people with identical builds because their timing is better and they make fewer mistakes), but enough skill disparity to outtank 4 players? I find that very difficult to believe without an imbalance in the mechanics.

I’ll put it delicately here. 4 players should be able to spam and burst any build in this game, assuming they have a clue. With the cc options available all around, no build has enough immunities and stunbreakers to survive that. So either those 4 players were really bad, they had some subpar builds, they had some really bad combo of classes/builds, had no coordination whatsoever (but that brings us to them not being too good), or all of the above.

I just played an unranked match.

Stronghold. I was the only one on defense, save for one newbie who realized something was wrong.

An ele tank rolled through and kept all the door breakers alive on top of not dying her self. Even when lording, the AI plus myself couldn’t do enough damage to threaten her.

This is broken. I don’t know how else to spell it out for you. Conquest is bad enough, but stronghold? It’s unwinnable vs. a decent ele tank. Tanks are normally only supposed to be good at surviving themselves. The tank builds I’m seeing are not only good at surviving, they’re good at healing teammates too.

I’ve made the point before, and I’ll make it again — when a build breaks a map, it’s a broken build, or the map is broken. The fact that an entire game mode simply cannot stand up to a single build? Really bad sign.

Shifting goalposts already?

Astralporing.1957:

Shifting goalposts already?

No, actually, that was an angry reaction to a match I had just had when I posted it. I watched a single elementalist steamroll the map because my CC/Damage/Burst could do nothing to slow it. Even the npc’s in the keep couldn’t damage the ele, when combined with my damage. All it took was a necro alongside the elementalist to down the lord and win the match in a matter of 2-3 minutes. Yes, I was the only one on defense (who wasn’t a complete newbie), but I was focusing on the door breakers and archers, not the elementalist. I only could kill them if I pulled them far enough away from the ele for the healing to not apply.

I understand the point of a tank is to outlast a 1v1 with relatively little struggle. But ele tanks not only act as a tank, they also act as a healer. And with a little finagling, I’ve seen them also deal moderate condi damage, enough to soften an opponent and make them an easy kill for a teammate who does more damage.

I’m not saying they’re super lethal or anything of that nature. But their design allows them to compose at least 2 of the 3 parts of the holy trinity and tip the scales in a bad sort of way.

I’ve posted it elsewhere, but my main suggestion to balance the current elementalist is to allow them to act as either a tank or a healer, but not both at the same time.

You’re mistaken. By definition, a healer will be able to tank. That’s one of the primary functions of healing.

The full healer ele does laughable damage. It’s also highly vulnerable to conditions and cc.

You got outplayed.

Ithilwen.1529:

You’re mistaken. By definition, a healer will be able to tank. That’s one of the primary functions of healing.

The full healer ele does laughable damage. It’s also highly vulnerable to conditions and cc.

You got outplayed.

Oh the irony…

Don’t you mean, outMMRed?

MMR and matchmaking is a separate issue. I think there’s general agreement that the current matchmaking is “sub optimal.”

This is different.

Ithilwen.1529:

You’re mistaken. By definition, a healer will be able to tank. That’s one of the primary functions of healing.

The full healer ele does laughable damage. It’s also highly vulnerable to conditions and cc.

You got outplayed.

Actually, no, healers are not by definition tanks. In virtually every other game out there, healers often have very little damage reduction/armor and are very squishy. When they aren’t squishy, they also tend to suck at healing. Because the way stats are used in this game, it doesn’t matter too much what armor class you have (couple percentage points DR).

Other classes in this game can be tanky and do some healing (primarily druids), but nobody can heal a team like an elementalist can. But they’re also healing themselves, curing condis and stunbreaks on top of it all. Druids at the very least can be countered pretty consistently.

And they heal npcs like nobody’s business too. If I can’t kill a tank ele, I should be able to at least stop the doorbreakers to stop the progression. But instead I end up with the ele healing them so much, it’s like I’m not even there. I’m not using a low-damage high tank build either. I do burst damage and plenty of AoE cc’s.

If you call that “outplayed,” fine. I don’t really care for pettiness. But to me, that’s just a gimmick. A cheap and easy way to score victories without trying particularly hard. It requires no teamwork or team coordination to do successfully. For a game mode that’s supposedly about teamwork, the current build makes them their own team.

Pyriall.1683:

Ithilwen.1529:

You’re mistaken. By definition, a healer will be able to tank. That’s one of the primary functions of healing.

The full healer ele does laughable damage. It’s also highly vulnerable to conditions and cc.

You got outplayed.

Oh the irony…

Don’t you mean, outMMRed?

It certainly is interesting about why certain people’s shortcomings are always from getting ripped off by the matchmaker, or unfair nerfs to their profession, where others who are having trouble are simply getting outplayed.

@Vagrant

The 55 Monk says “hi.” On paper, this build is squishy in the extreme. Yet, I have tanked for minutes at a time using it. Guild Wars has a long and honorable history of tough healers.

When a healer is squishy.. ( the dead game City of Heroes comes to mind ) There’s normally also a strong protector class and we start working toward the holy trinity.

No, it is not true that healers are generally super squishy. There healing makes them tanky.

@Chaith

This dispute is about 3 players being unable to beat a lone Ele. At least one of those was a Ranger who somehow failed to cc.

For the rest, that’s a different issue.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Chaith

This dispute is about 3 players being unable to beat a lone Ele. At least one of those was a Ranger who somehow failed to cc.

For the rest, that’s a different issue.

Pro league Elementalist scum using a smurf account to cheat the system, more like!