Guild Wars 2

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

Why should someone play necro if you can play hambow with 20+ might 24/7? Same level of (no)skill but way more effective. Necro is really good only when going power with random lichform 5k autoattack spam…you get 30 secs of the most brainless cheese of them all…but after that you’re done

Unfortunately, even that has a hard counter in the form of Moa. Literally every PvP Necro elite can be immediately ended by this one Mesmer elite.

This is a recurring theme with the class. It has a few builds that can perform specific functions very well, but every one of them has at least one hard counter. Add all the other problems the class has (listed out fairly well in this thread) and it is simply hard to justify bringing the class to a serious fight.

Necros are not a frontline class. They get juggled by CC so easily on every build, so if you see a Necro defending a node you can pretty much guarantee they will lose, even the allegedly OP Minion Master build.

So that leaves midline and backline, which means that they need people on their team to fight on the node for them, and they have to provide more to their team than just condi pressure or max damage autoattacks.

Wells on Necro should be first and foremost on their minds in team play. Why Corrupt one guy’s boons when you can corrupt the entire point’s boons. Why give them the opportunity to focus you when you can drop Well of Darkness and they thrash around unable to hit you. After Well goes down, go Plague. If your teammates are so bad that they can’t kill anyone thrashing around at perma blind, then realize that. If you don’t want to get 1 shot in team play, then why aren’t you bringing something more tanky or building to be more tanky.

As for defensiveness, any class that has a second health mechanic that can be made much more durable by Vital Persistance and isn’t using it has a fundamental lack of understanding of the class. It’s a 10 point trait that turns you into an incredibly hard to kill SOB in 1v1, and even in group situations you are hard to focus, esp when your Spectral Armor procs.

Life siphon Wells are very strong, but, for some reason AoE support, control, life stealing, and, with Clerics ammy, the best AoE heal in the game are “not viable” /rolleyes.

I almost want to call the Necro community the NeQQromancers.

Slim.3024:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Slim.3024:

Let’s be honest here, how many necromancers run with 3 defensive utilities like many other classes?

Not many. Utilities are necessary for damage on necros. Even so, the defensive utilities they do get don’t scale beyond one opponent, which is why the “focus the necro” meta exists. It’s got nothing to do with “threat” and everything to do with “quick 5v4”.

That sounds very ominous. Are you saying that death shround, blind fields, teleports, AoE CC or protection even only affect one opponent? I think you are trying to say the necromancer has no invulnerability. The necromancer is not alone in that though.

You are misinterpreting what I said. I said they don’t scale beyond one opponent, not that they don’t effect more than one opponent. Everyone else has defenses that scale to infinity. Necros do not. Necro defenses do not scale at all in most cases, due to being a flat number reduction (Death Shroud) or having an ICD (Spectral Armor/Walk) or both (Signet of Vampirism). Because of the non-scaling nature of necro defenses, they are not good at all against multiple opponents. It’s ironic that such an AoE heavy class is good at dueling and terrible with multiple opponents. They make the biggest impact in the teamfights where they can’t survive if the enemy has half a brain. Compare that to a Mesmer where their biggest impact is in duels where they are very well set up to survive.

Necros have pretty poor access to Protection, and it is always on long cooldowns for just a few seconds and always on utilities. Gaining Protection means the loss of the necessary stunbreaks or boon conversion or our only Blind field (Well of Darkness, which also has a very long cooldown). The primary reason to bring a necro on a team is boon conversion, which locks one utility into Corrupt Boon or Well of Corruption.

Vital Persistance does not add tankiness at all. Wells are easily dealt with (rarely can you affect more than one person with them since they affect at best the point, which only needs one person), siphoning requires you to drop 6 points to get it at any respectable amount, so you can forget about your damage, and the healing well can be countered so easily its laughable. See healing well? Hambow warrior hits it with fire field, drop any poison field on it, engis spam grenades on it… oh hey look my entire team is dead, BUT AT LEAST I HEALED THEM ONCE RIGHT?!?! Yep. Definitely.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You are misinterpreting what I said. I said they don’t scale beyond one opponent, not that they don’t effect more than one opponent. Everyone else has defenses that scale to infinity. Necros do not. Necro defenses do not scale at all in most cases, due to being a flat number reduction (Death Shroud) or having an ICD (Spectral Armor/Walk) or both (Signet of Vampirism). Because of the non-scaling nature of necro defenses, they are not good at all against multiple opponents. It’s ironic that such an AoE heavy class is good at dueling and terrible with multiple opponents. They make the biggest impact in the teamfights where they can’t survive if the enemy has half a brain. Compare that to a Mesmer where their biggest impact is in duels where they are very well set up to survive.

I’d urge to you to be more precise then. You can’t remain vague and expect me to interpret your thoughts.

What survival tools are we talking about for other classes that scale infinitely other than invulnerability and which necro has no access to? Necromancers have access to protection, AoE blinds, teleports. You seem to be thinking that because death shroud somehow doesn’t scale with the amount of damage you take, that the necro is worse off, when others classes do not even have that mechanic.

It would probably take 3 heavy dps (something that as we have seen doesn’t even exist anymore in high-end tournaments) to remove death shroud in 3 seconds, which is as long as an invul for other classes.

Necros have pretty poor access to Protection, and it is always on long cooldowns for just a few seconds and always on utilities. Gaining Protection means the loss of the necessary stunbreaks or boon conversion or our only Blind field (Well of Darkness, which also has a very long cooldown). The primary reason to bring a necro on a team is boon conversion, which locks one utility into Corrupt Boon or Well of Corruption.

Defensive cooldowns usually have “long cooldowns”. That’s why we call them cooldowns. It’s been a long, long time since high damage classes were overpresent in a team comp, yet necromancers seem to complain about not being able to escape the excessive damage. This is an indicator for the issue not being the necro’s survivability, but rather how the necro is focused heavily, as it will obliterate the whole enemy team if it is left alone.

Slim.3024:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You are misinterpreting what I said. I said they don’t scale beyond one opponent, not that they don’t effect more than one opponent. Everyone else has defenses that scale to infinity. Necros do not. Necro defenses do not scale at all in most cases, due to being a flat number reduction (Death Shroud) or having an ICD (Spectral Armor/Walk) or both (Signet of Vampirism). Because of the non-scaling nature of necro defenses, they are not good at all against multiple opponents. It’s ironic that such an AoE heavy class is good at dueling and terrible with multiple opponents. They make the biggest impact in the teamfights where they can’t survive if the enemy has half a brain. Compare that to a Mesmer where their biggest impact is in duels where they are very well set up to survive.

I’d urge to you to be more precise then. You can’t remain vague and expect me to interpret your thoughts.

Hard to be more precise than saying “they don’t scale with numbers of opponents” when you mean to say “they don’t scale with numbers of opponents”.

What survival tools are we talking about for other classes that scale infinitely other than invulnerability and which necro has no access to?

Evasion periods, block periods, immunity periods, invulnerability periods, extra dodges via Vigor/trait or skill boosted endurance regen. Necros have none of any of these, and they all scale to infinity.

Necromancers have access to protection, AoE blinds, teleports. You seem to be thinking that because death shroud somehow doesn’t scale with the amount of damage you take, that the necro is worse off, when others classes do not even have that mechanic.

Which is better as a defense: Shield Stance or Death Shroud?

Shield Stance will last its full duration outside of the very few unblockable interrupts in the game and will completely negate most attacks for 3 seconds, but still allow the Warrior to be healed and buffed as normal.

Death Shroud may last longer, or it may be gone in 2 seconds from a single foe. Yes, this does happen. You reduce the burst you took, but that only reduced (not negated entirely) the damage of a single person. In addition, using it to absorb burst means you lose access to the skills until you can build up enough life force again. If you try to protect yourself in a pressure situation, you can’t get healing from allies (or any healing you would otherwise have coming in from yourself). In addition, you can still be ping-ponged about, be immobilized, etc.

Shield Stance isn’t even the best of the infinite scaling defenses that other professions have access to.

It would probably take 3 heavy dps (something that as we have seen doesn’t even exist anymore in high-end tournaments) to remove death shroud in 3 seconds, which is as long as an invul for other classes.

Nowhere close. Death Shroud is balanced around 1v1, and one heavy damage build can easily burst it out in 3 seconds. This is assuming the necro even has 100% life force, which they very often do not. Usually, it doesn’t even take heavy DPS to make them drop out of shroud in 3 seconds due to only having a couple thousand “health”.

Defensive cooldowns usually have “long cooldowns”. That’s why we call them cooldowns. It’s been a long, long time since high damage classes were overpresent in a team comp, yet necromancers seem to complain about not being able to escape the excessive damage. This is an indicator for the issue not being the necro’s survivability, but rather how the necro is focused heavily, as it will obliterate the whole enemy team if it is left alone.

Here’s a hint: anyone who is left alone can obliterate the whole team. Necros get focused because their defensive options do not scale with numbers of opponents. They’re focused down because they are the easiest class to kill by doing that, and then you have a 5v4 until the necro can haul his slow butt back to the fight.

Relentless.7023:

Necros are not a frontline class. They get juggled by CC so easily on every build, so if you see a Necro defending a node you can pretty much guarantee they will lose, even the allegedly OP Minion Master build.

So that leaves midline and backline, which means that they need people on their team to fight on the node for them, and they have to provide more to their team than just condi pressure or max damage autoattacks.

Wells on Necro should be first and foremost on their minds in team play. Why Corrupt one guy’s boons when you can corrupt the entire point’s boons. Why give them the opportunity to focus you when you can drop Well of Darkness and they thrash around unable to hit you. After Well goes down, go Plague. If your teammates are so bad that they can’t kill anyone thrashing around at perma blind, then realize that. If you don’t want to get 1 shot in team play, then why aren’t you bringing something more tanky or building to be more tanky.

As for defensiveness, any class that has a second health mechanic that can be made much more durable by Vital Persistance and isn’t using it has a fundamental lack of understanding of the class. It’s a 10 point trait that turns you into an incredibly hard to kill SOB in 1v1, and even in group situations you are hard to focus, esp when your Spectral Armor procs.

Life siphon Wells are very strong, but, for some reason AoE support, control, life stealing, and, with Clerics ammy, the best AoE heal in the game are “not viable” /rolleyes.

I almost want to call the Necro community the NeQQromancers.

This guy just said “Life siphon Wells are very strong”, pffft HAhahAHahhahhaha

Relentless.7023:

Necros are not a frontline class. They get juggled by CC so easily on every build, so if you see a Necro defending a node you can pretty much guarantee they will lose, even the allegedly OP Minion Master build.

So that leaves midline and backline, which means that they need people on their team to fight on the node for them, and they have to provide more to their team than just condi pressure or max damage autoattacks.

Wells on Necro should be first and foremost on their minds in team play. Why Corrupt one guy’s boons when you can corrupt the entire point’s boons. Why give them the opportunity to focus you when you can drop Well of Darkness and they thrash around unable to hit you. After Well goes down, go Plague. If your teammates are so bad that they can’t kill anyone thrashing around at perma blind, then realize that. If you don’t want to get 1 shot in team play, then why aren’t you bringing something more tanky or building to be more tanky.

As for defensiveness, any class that has a second health mechanic that can be made much more durable by Vital Persistance and isn’t using it has a fundamental lack of understanding of the class. It’s a 10 point trait that turns you into an incredibly hard to kill SOB in 1v1, and even in group situations you are hard to focus, esp when your Spectral Armor procs.

Life siphon Wells are very strong, but, for some reason AoE support, control, life stealing, and, with Clerics ammy, the best AoE heal in the game are “not viable” /rolleyes.

I almost want to call the Necro community the NeQQromancers.

It’s clear that you have never played necromancer against a competent opponent, or team, or maybe you have never played necromancer. All of the things you are listing sound good on paper but do not pan out in practice.

1. The healing isn’t enough.
2. When specced in this manner a necro might as well be afk from a damage aspect. The cooldowns are to long on wells and to easy to counter. Wells are best when someone is already dead, unfortunately, the necro is usually dead first. (all things being equal between the teams). So wells are “generally” only helping to further win a fight you have already won.
3. Necros are already playing tanky. What amulet do you think necros use? It’s either carrion or rabid for condi.
4. I’m glad your solution for necro survivability is a 180second cooldown that almost makes you easier to train down. It does a LOT to stop the ranged damage… (sarcasm just in case anyone missed it).
5. Finally, while a heavy deathshroud spec with vital persistence sounds cool, you basically do nothing while in the form. So once again you are taking a lot of damage, but you provide nearly no support or damage while in the form. (I realize you can spec for some support while in Deathshroud but the support is very minor and is outclassed by every other support class). i.e. death shiver, and the new condi removal trait.

If you come up with some savior spec, I will be the first to use it and say thank you, but you can’t come in and tell all of these very experienced necromancers (lopez, bhawb, forsaker, and i’m sure some others I missed) that it’s do-able when I guarantee you haven’t done it successfully.

Relentless.7023:

Necros are not a frontline class. They get juggled by CC so easily on every build, so if you see a Necro defending a node you can pretty much guarantee they will lose, even the allegedly OP Minion Master build.

So that leaves midline and backline, which means that they need people on their team to fight on the node for them, and they have to provide more to their team than just condi pressure or max damage autoattacks.

Wells on Necro should be first and foremost on their minds in team play. Why Corrupt one guy’s boons when you can corrupt the entire point’s boons. Why give them the opportunity to focus you when you can drop Well of Darkness and they thrash around unable to hit you. After Well goes down, go Plague. If your teammates are so bad that they can’t kill anyone thrashing around at perma blind, then realize that. If you don’t want to get 1 shot in team play, then why aren’t you bringing something more tanky or building to be more tanky.

As for defensiveness, any class that has a second health mechanic that can be made much more durable by Vital Persistance and isn’t using it has a fundamental lack of understanding of the class. It’s a 10 point trait that turns you into an incredibly hard to kill SOB in 1v1, and even in group situations you are hard to focus, esp when your Spectral Armor procs.

Life siphon Wells are very strong, but, for some reason AoE support, control, life stealing, and, with Clerics ammy, the best AoE heal in the game are “not viable” /rolleyes.

I almost want to call the Necro community the NeQQromancers.

1.) those last few paragraphs are a joke, right? Have you ever played a siphon build outside of hotjoin?

2.) who are you going to kill with that clerics amulet? Sure, you can spec for healing with a necro, but you give up any form of threatening damage to do it. This proves nothing besides you post funny things.

I think when ppl make their “analysis” they are ignoring the concept of team roles. The build I linked is not for midline, which is most responsible for damage. It is assumed that you would bring that kind of Clerics Necro build if you already have on-point fighters and damage guys making up the midline. It probably sucks against Power builds, but if you’re going up against a 2 Condi or even Hybrid Engi team, I think that Necro Wells build would provide way better support than any other class.

It should be noted that Apex kicked the crap out of everyone because they, quite obviously, know what a front, mid, and backline is. The tanky warrior and spirit ranger fought primarily on the nodes, the zerk warrior and staff ele brought the deeps, and the Healing Breeze Guardian had the heals. Staff Ele could switch to a more backline ammy to make them really difficult to kill, but at the expense of being more dominant in fights.

The standard comp of bunker guard, thief, and 3 roamers is garbage compared to this trinity strategy they are using and I really hope people start building like that instead of this yoloQ kittening contest that most “teams” are.

I don’t think Necro is just limited to midline alone. I know Necros get upset because nobody really gets their class and they get blamed for any lost teamfight, but that’s not an excuse to just bunker down and convince themselves that they can’t do anything but fear chain, condispam, or autoattack / well spam.

Necromancer 1 Spam is Overpowered now :/

Thank you Inscrutable at least somebody on the forums has a clue about what I was saying. The rest of you need to take some time to read about how to build as a teammate instead of just a solo Q hero.

Lopez.7369:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I wouldn’t be that hard with conditions.

The problem is not that condis are not good, it’s just the fact that most of the teams run a lot of bunkers / defensive set ups.
This means that there’s a new space for condi specs in a team and in addition, the opposing (euqually tanky) team will have a lot of condi remove and stuff.

If you have 4 bunkers / almost bunkers in your team and expect the same for the enemy team, a thief which brings some burst/stealth rezzes/decaps might be more usefull than a necro.

Condis still are strong, but not as strong as a team full of bunkers.

This could not be more wrong. The main role of conditions and necromancers in particular is to counter bunkers.

The bunker teams are actually so strong because they don’t have to worry about necromancers as much as they used to. Corrupt Boon and Well of Corruption don’t factor in when necromancers aren’t viable in the top levels of play.

^ Exactly. I eat bunker builds for breakfast because I have so many boon strips and condition transfers. I personally don’t understand why Necromancers aren’t needed when they can provide so many debuffs on point bunkers.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Lopez.7369:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I wouldn’t be that hard with conditions.

The problem is not that condis are not good, it’s just the fact that most of the teams run a lot of bunkers / defensive set ups.
This means that there’s a new space for condi specs in a team and in addition, the opposing (euqually tanky) team will have a lot of condi remove and stuff.

If you have 4 bunkers / almost bunkers in your team and expect the same for the enemy team, a thief which brings some burst/stealth rezzes/decaps might be more usefull than a necro.

Condis still are strong, but not as strong as a team full of bunkers.

This could not be more wrong. The main role of conditions and necromancers in particular is to counter bunkers.

The bunker teams are actually so strong because they don’t have to worry about necromancers as much as they used to. Corrupt Boon and Well of Corruption don’t factor in when necromancers aren’t viable in the top levels of play.

^ Exactly. I eat bunker builds for breakfast because I have so many boon strips and condition transfers. I personally don’t understand why Necromancers aren’t needed when they can provide so many debuffs on point bunkers.

It’s not so much that they aren’t needed as they can’t justify two spots on a team. Because necros have so little in the way of avoiding CC and their defenseive mechanics don’t scale beyond one opponent, they basically need a person dedicated to peeling for them. When Dhuumfire first released, the damage output they had was enough to justify this, and rather easily so. When you can break down a bunker and capture the point before the opposing thief can get to you, you’re worth having around, even dedicating a second spot on the team to.

But necros can’t do that anymore (thankfully). They still need someone dedicated to peeling for them, but what they still bring to the table isn’t enough to justify two spots out of five.

If you think the Staff Ele on Apex was there to bring “the deeps” …just lol. That ele spec doesn’t do a lot of dps, but it does do quite a bit more damage compared to what a necro could bring specced similarly, plus much more healing, more condi removal and more boons. Which is really the point everyone is trying to get across to you and whoever else thinks that support necro is a thing.

If I remember correctly he ran with zerkers in one match but its w/e…

The way I see it is that Necromancer is meant to be conditions in most cases (since we haven’t seen any Power-oriented buffs and new mechanics/traits in a long time). Necro is the opposite of gaurdian. And we should be the “debuffer”.

Since the new patch we can see a huge exodus of condition necros, because auto-attacking got nerfed. More try some 2-y old well builds, which are kind of like bringing HB Warrior or MM specs, bringing nothing.

But there’s a little place for the “debuffer” same like for healing supports (gaurd is just a holy trinity in one and present everywhere, cutting down the idea of this game).
Back in the days CB was corrupting all boons and that was a scary move. Now it affects only 5 which, with current boonspam of gaurds, no stability or such will be effected. Yet, full cleanses still exist, even full condition converts.

Bringing CB back to normal would be a good first step.
Then the mobility. Wurm has long cast time and has mere 1200 range. Making it to work like Mesmer’s one-way portal for Necro himself only, without range would be a second good step.

Third thing – mobility. Dark Path as a ground-targeted teleport from Betas would be nice.

Fourth- Utilize 6-0 skills in DS to consume LF in exchange for heals/blocks/utility.

And many more

Lopez.7369:

Login.5102:

EVERY Guild wars 2 PvP competition since launch has had a lack or complete absence of Necromancers. I believe this topic deserves a dev response.

The PAX tournament had a necromancer on almost every team, IIRC. But otherwise you’re right.

I can back this up since i played at pax as a necro
:waves:

Nec is a free kill right now, not even good for 2vs2.

Nec is just not suited for conquest mode unless they have huge fire in their kitten nal, and they’ve not sadly.

They’ve nerfed all nec bleeds and condi pressure due to dumbfire, then nerfed dumbfire, so now we have a weaker pre-dumbfire nec ( which was ridicolously bad) with all the power creep that went throgh other classes, making nec even weaker.

Power nec is a joke, going down in like 2 seconds even with the smartest positioning ever.

It’s sad how they totally overnerfed nec after overbuffing it ridicolously: shows how clear aNet intentions are toward the profession.

Mrbig.8019:

Nec is a free kill right now, not even good for 2vs2.

Nec is just not suited for conquest mode unless they have huge fire in their kitten nal, and they’ve not sadly.

They’ve nerfed all nec bleeds and condi pressure due to dumbfire, then nerfed dumbfire, so now we have a weaker pre-dumbfire nec ( which was ridicolously bad) with all the power creep that went throgh other classes, making nec even weaker.

Power nec is a joke, going down in like 2 seconds even with the smartest positioning ever.

It’s sad how they totally overnerfed nec after overbuffing it ridicolously: shows how clear aNet intentions are toward the profession.

I personally would be pretty ecstatic if they removed dhuumfire and even the fear on spectral wall and gave us back old corrupt boon, old terror, old putrid mark, the bleeds on mark of blood and grasping dead…

Roe.3679:

I personally would be pretty ecstatic if they removed dhuumfire and even the fear on spectral wall and gave us back old corrupt boon, old terror, old putrid mark, the bleeds on mark of blood and grasping dead…

Yeah, also old Spectral Armor, Doom, Death Shroud mitigation, Tainted Shackles and so on…oh wait, you just forgot the buffs you got like Mrbig did, who claims necro is worse off than pre-dhuumfire.

Slim.3024:

Roe.3679:

I personally would be pretty ecstatic if they removed dhuumfire and even the fear on spectral wall and gave us back old corrupt boon, old terror, old putrid mark, the bleeds on mark of blood and grasping dead…

Yeah, also old Spectral Armor, Doom, Death Shroud mitigation, Tainted Shackles and so on…oh wait, you just forgot the buffs you got like Mrbig did, who claims necro is worse off than pre-dhuumfire.

Necro’s damage is in a worse place than pre-dhuumfire, but the rest of the class isn’t.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Necro’s damage is in a worse place than pre-dhuumfire, but the rest of the class isn’t.

Remember what necros asked for? Survivability.

They got it and for a while they even had increased damage. Their damage now is not lower than it used to be but pretty much on par and they have better survivability.

Most classes in this game have lost a lot of damage since release and gained extra survivability or utility.

No, we didn’t get that good of increased survivability. What we got was Dhuumfire, a ton of damage, and then they nerfed a lot of our damage to compensate for that added damage. But then they took away the added damage and didn’t return a single bit of our damage.

Slim.3024:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Necro’s damage is in a worse place than pre-dhuumfire, but the rest of the class isn’t.

Remember what necros asked for? Survivability.

They got it and for a while they even had increased damage. Their damage now is not lower than it used to be but pretty much on par and they have better survivability.

Most classes in this game have lost a lot of damage since release and gained extra survivability or utility.

Not really. Necros asked for survivability. They got Dhuumfire, more Fear (so more Terror damage), and Life Blast damage tied to range instead of life force amount. Spectral Walk got nerfed, and Spectral Armor was changed to add more survivability in 1v1, but lose out with 2 or more opponents.

Then they lost damage. One bleed each off of Grasping Dead, Mark of Blood, Mark of Evasion, and Weakening Shroud (also had duration decreased), plus 17% less damage off of Terror (and 17% off of a massive number is a really big hit). Even with the addition of Tainted Shackles, it was a net damage loss compared to pre-dhuumfire. A small one, yes, but still a loss. Now that Dhuumfire has been nerfed (and it did need it), there is a considerable loss of damage compared to pre-Dhuumfire. And survivability? We’re still waiting on it. Spectral Armor is the only thing that actually got buffed in that respect and the added ICD means that a second opponent hitting us at the same time actually takes us down faster than before.

Login.5102:

HERE IS THE PROBLEM

Anet wants us to be the attrition class.
+
Anet does not want to give us block,aegis,vigor,stability,evades or invulnerability.

Why the hell can they not see these two ideas are not compatible in Guild Wars 2.
Classes that can evade and dodge ALL incoming damage or skills when they choose(or simply be invulnerable or block) makes a better candidate for attrition.

Being ping ponged around and being team focused is not attrition.

Slim.3024:

Roe.3679:

I personally would be pretty ecstatic if they removed dhuumfire and even the fear on spectral wall and gave us back old corrupt boon, old terror, old putrid mark, the bleeds on mark of blood and grasping dead…

Yeah, also old Spectral Armor, Doom, Death Shroud mitigation, Tainted Shackles and so on…oh wait, you just forgot the buffs you got like Mrbig did, who claims necro is worse off than pre-dhuumfire.

I’m fully aware of those buffs. Doesn’t change my post one bit.

Roe.3679:

Mrbig.8019:

Nec is a free kill right now, not even good for 2vs2.

Nec is just not suited for conquest mode unless they have huge fire in their kitten nal, and they’ve not sadly.

They’ve nerfed all nec bleeds and condi pressure due to dumbfire, then nerfed dumbfire, so now we have a weaker pre-dumbfire nec ( which was ridicolously bad) with all the power creep that went throgh other classes, making nec even weaker.

Power nec is a joke, going down in like 2 seconds even with the smartest positioning ever.

It’s sad how they totally overnerfed nec after overbuffing it ridicolously: shows how clear aNet intentions are toward the profession.

I personally would be pretty ecstatic if they removed dhuumfire and even the fear on spectral wall and gave us back old corrupt boon, old terror, old putrid mark, the bleeds on mark of blood and grasping dead…

Not really. Other classes got buffed so much. You can’t get anything to stick without burning which is the best condition and crucially is a condition to cover your bleeds. Even a necro with the bleeds back and dhuumfire back to what it was wouldn’t be that OP.

IMO it is the weakest class purely because conquest is based on fighting on a point and running to points. Necro is slow and not great on a point. So it is just bad. The worst class by far and probably the worst class since the game came out in terms of its current position.

I agree… Necro is not viable in top tpvp! This is mainly because the meta builds on warrior and ele have ridiculous amount ob condi immune/ cleanse. Sustainwise necro lacks compared to ele/ war/ ranger and even thiefs (evades).

I think the problem is the poor trait design on Spite and Blood Traitlines.

Most of the traits Spite are simply totally out of context… and i still dont get the design behind the still unviable Blood line.

So a team with a necro won the ESL weekly yesterday. I guess the necro got carried.

Most enemy teams had a warrior and a thief too, yet the necro team beat them.

Might be because no one runs lyssa runes anymore cause condidmg is non existent.
Since thrs no need for condihate cuzz no one plays condis a necro who joins last so u can t adjust at the start of the game seems like a legit response.

This was a tournament…the hypotheses people come up with is astounding. Perhaps necromancer isn’t as bad as people claim (mostly necromancers).

necromancer is by no means a bad class in tpvp it just requires a better positioning and understanding of how the class works than many other classes..having ventari on his necromancer in team boon is really an advantage for us and due to his skill he is extremely useful in almost every situation

Sensotix.4106:

necromancer is by no means a bad class in tpvp it just requires a better positioning and understanding of how the class works than many other classes..having ventari on his necromancer in team boon is really an advantage for us and due to his skill he is extremely useful in almost every situation

That brotherly love! Ventari is not a bad necro – but from watching the games yesterday i can point out a couple of mechanical weaknesses.

The reason a necro is in a bad spot with conditions is probably due to the might stacking. A warrior or elementalist with 25 stacks of might hit 500 dps with their burning. Who needs a condition class when a full zerker can deal more damage overall than a dedicated condition class?

That brotherly love! Ventari is not a bad necro – but from watching the games yesterday i can point out a couple of mechanical weaknesses. [/quote]

Hey Ventari here, I would really appreciate feedback, so pls tell me your opinion about my playstyle yesterday, but don’t come with: u hit a skill in a dodge/u used a skill too randomly etc cause these things just happen from time to time, but if u provide good feedback let me know

Sensotix.4106:

necromancer is by no means a bad class in tpvp it just requires a better positioning and understanding of how the class works than many other classes..having ventari on his necromancer in team boon is really an advantage for us and due to his skill he is extremely useful in almost every situation

Necros are in a weird spot right now. Condi is still quite good in 1v1 settings/op even with broken nightmare runes…thing is strength runes are even crazier. This allows other classes to be more efficient then a necro in several areas compared to just boon stripping. This also allows bunker classes to output pretty significant dps (look at the NA finals with the way the war’s played).

MTC.9536:

That brotherly love! Ventari is not a bad necro – but from watching the games yesterday i can point out a couple of mechanical weaknesses.

Hey Ventari here, I would really appreciate feedback, so pls tell me your opinion about my playstyle yesterday, but don’t come with: u hit a skill in a dodge/u used a skill too randomly etc cause these things just happen from time to time, but if u provide good feedback let me know

[/quote]

Stop clicking if you still continue that

Infect.2738:

MTC.9536:

That brotherly love! Ventari is not a bad necro – but from watching the games yesterday i can point out a couple of mechanical weaknesses.

Hey Ventari here, I would really appreciate feedback, so pls tell me your opinion about my playstyle yesterday, but don’t come with: u hit a skill in a dodge/u used a skill too randomly etc cause these things just happen from time to time, but if u provide good feedback let me know

Stop clicking if you still continue that[/quote]

he stopped ages ago when he got the new mouse and could keybind his skills properly

Easy to focus classes always end up in the bottom tiers of pvp eventually.

The necromancer doesn’t have the burst or raw sustained of the warrior let alone the hard CC.

The necromancer is basically a warrior with no real self healing, delayed damage output, softer CC, and no immunities.

Damage sponge<Damage avoidance, always.

Who are the strong classes? Thief and warrior. Why? All the tools to deal with being focused down on top of their high innate sustained damage and burst relative to other classes.

Thing with condi’s in high tpvp
You’re dead before they reach their third tick..

The reason a necro is in a bad spot with conditions is probably due to the might stacking. A warrior or elementalist with 25 stacks of might hit 500 dps with their burning. Who needs a condition class when a full zerker can deal more damage overall than a dedicated condition class?

this ^^

As the best Necromancer MULTIverse MULTImmo MULTIprof i’ll give my perfect and incontestable point of view :

1st / I want you to remove Duumfire completly and replace it by a lower tier trait : “Incendiary Powder”

2nd/ It’s absolutly not logic that I don’t have confusion, torment, chill, fear and burn on my signet of spite.

/trolloff

Actually I also agree that necro is not really a bad profession but that’s also true that the sustain we have is far from being good. Even after the DF nerf , especially with the new trait in curses the damage are still nice , the fear didn’t really change, corrupt boon is still a perfect skill …

You can’t really make a build with a good sustain , it’s stupid to go on a full sustain spec coz the class was clearly not made for this.
The thing you can do is to work on what you can do to stay alive longer without really using your class mechanic , you have to play really defensive and passive , good positioning , keep a good distance with all your foe’s , kyting perfectly, not being the first in team fight. If you just don’t go too much offensive, keep your cd’s up and wait for the good moment you can attack you will just finish all team fights.

I actually rather a nec who is not dealing an insane and constant pressure but who will die at least 5 times in a match than a necro who will play more defensive and die something like 2 times in a match.

It’s of course depending of your team aswell, playing with nec mean also for your mates to learn to play with a nec.

I also really like the duo staff ele (celestial) because basically the water heal + the earth protection is the sustain you miss on necro, for team fighting or 2v2 it’s pretty strong.

I can understand that ppl are not really happy with the actual nec , after all our dps got nerfed , our sustain is the same after 15april but i’m still pretty confident that it can still be meta.

Maybe anet can react and modify the prof a bit. I was really confident about Unholy Sanctuary (new grand master in death magic) but the amount of HP is clearly not good enough , it’s the same as backpack regenerator of the ingi who can have it permanently , us nec are just trading lf for some hp. I’m not good at thinking about new traits or something but if anet can use the model of this skill to implement something who can allow us to have a better BUT SMART sustain it could be great.

SORRY for my bad english.
Byouh !
Eternya.

In my opinion, the necro is in a bad spot because with a condition build it is hard to capture and defend te points. I used to roll a scepter/focus build, but if you have to stay in the small radius of a capture point those weapons became useless. Crippling a warrior that is max 2 steps away is just not effective. I just switched to a d/d wellomancer, which is able to stay in the points with a decent dps and protective wells. Still, it is pretty much worse than a decent warrior or guardian for example. Especially if you get burned the hell out by a hambow warr.

Sensotix.4106:

Infect.2738:

MTC.9536:

That brotherly love! Ventari is not a bad necro – but from watching the games yesterday i can point out a couple of mechanical weaknesses.

Hey Ventari here, I would really appreciate feedback, so pls tell me your opinion about my playstyle yesterday, but don’t come with: u hit a skill in a dodge/u used a skill too randomly etc cause these things just happen from time to time, but if u provide good feedback let me know

Stop clicking if you still continue that

he stopped ages ago when he got the new mouse and could keybind his skills properly[/quote]

Now its just the backpedaling and keyboard turning!