Doesn’t really inspire confidence about the future of the game if ArenaNet is only willing to shell out the bones for two people to work on this stuff.
Probably twice as many as most games, how many designers do you think they need?
All they do in a modern game is collect craploads of data about who is winning and losing and feedback from forums and compile it, pretty easily see problems, tough part is fixing without breaking something else.
“Alright, let’s begin testing. I’ll hop on my thief and you try to kill me with whatever other class you’d like. … Now, now, when you’re the senior developer, you can test the thief.”
Probably twice as many as most games, how many designers do you think they need?
Given the snails speed at which they fix bugs / implement changes, clearly more, 2 guys on eight classes is much less than other games I’ve played, some have one person per class (Rift), granted there is much more to do per class in Rift, but still, others have two or three classes per person (LOTRO), I’d certainly expect more at this stage in the games life with all the bugs they have and the initial rounds of balancing to do.
The post says they have 2 DESIGNERS working on their stuff. More than that I can easily see leading to a “too many cooks” situation. No doubt they have a fleet of QA and bug fixers working on stuff, and we don’t know how many programmers are actually implementing the designers’ ideas or how many they need. If it’s well-built code, maybe the designers can even implement the design changes themselves so the programmers can work on expansions and stuff.
I imagine that it’s hard for a free to play game to have more than 2 developers.
The lack of money coming into them is probaly the reason they worked on payed tournaments first and new PvE content that provide them with a small amount of income.
If they don’t make money, they can’t hire more people.
I imagine that it’s hard for a free to play game to have more than 2 developers.
The lack of money coming into them is probaly the reason they worked on payed tournaments first and new PvE content that provide them with a small amount of income.
If they don’t make money, they can’t hire more people.
So sick of this “free game” excuse that people keep giving.
#1, was this game free? Because I don’t remember it being free. I’m pretty sure it had a $60 price tag on it. You think SC2 has two people working on it?
#2, cash shop? Did you forget about that little beauty giving them nonstop income that likely surpasses monthly subs?
Really, it’s just stupid to try to say Anet is hurting for money because of their business model. If it weren’t as if not more profitable than having monthly subs, they wouldn’t be using it.
I was really disappointed when I read they only had two guys working on pvp. That really shows you where Anet’s priorities lay and why everything takes so long to come out for pvp whereas they keep pumping out pve and cash shop stuff nonstop.
It shows you just how much Anet changed over the years. This is not the company I loved in GW1.
Then you should know that making small changes IS the way to balance a game like this.
Look at how the meta shifted so drastically with every big update.
One that screams out as the biggest was the 4 paragons 4 iway warriors running fear me holding halls for a solid 20 hours.
Or the assassins spamming an offhand attack that triggered the dervish aura to deal massive amounts of AOE just exploding everything.
What does that have to do with what I said? I didn’t say anything about wanting more balance changes this patch. What I’m talking about is the fact that it takes almost three months just to do the first round of bug fixes. Or the fact that pvp content updates are slow. Or the fact that countless basic pvp features are absent from this game.
There are so many things this game needs to have a successful pvp scene, and the fact that they are going to be left undone because Anet only sees fit to have two guys working on pvp is very disappointing.
You guys do realize it took ONE person to make DOTA…….
From one perspective, the major audience for this game is people who DONT even get on forums, we are sort of a subgroup of etlistist fans, their main buyers are people who just want to have fun, not people who post on forums.
The post on the OP doesn’t even detail whether they are programmers or not.
Two’s fine. Get too many and it’ll dull thier effectiveness at decission making. On that note, I think players, especially forum players need to realize, we have a very narrow view of the game’s balance. We don’t have access to the big picture. What’s OP could just be that we’re not seeing the counter to it. Skills we consider useless could be amazing and we’re just not seeing it. This game is new yet we talk like we’ve been playing for years. I think we need to step back and start re-assess why we value what we value and why we play the way we play.
Probably twice as many as most games, how many designers do you think they need?
Given the snails speed at which they fix bugs / implement changes, clearly more, 2 guys on eight classes is much less than other games I’ve played, some have one person per class (Rift), granted there is much more to do per class in Rift, but still, others have two or three classes per person (LOTRO), I’d certainly expect more at this stage in the games life with all the bugs they have and the initial rounds of balancing to do.
Especially off launch, this is when they get most of their dedicated fanbase…
They had an insanely large dedicated fanbase before release… all they had to do is deliver basics and listen to intelligent forum go’ers (there were tons of them floating around, more than any other game I’ve played)
If Anet just fools around off the bat like they are doing a large number of people are going to leave and never look back…
A large number of people already have left, and aren’t likely to look back.
My old tourney team dwindled from having 5 people online pretty regularly to 4, to 3, to 2, and now to only me being the only relatively active player over a 2 week period. It’s also been over a week since I set foot in the mists except to get free travel back to LA, since I figured I could keep bashing my head against the dumb tpvp metagame with what few pug groups I could find that weren’t terrible, or I could get some moneys worth out of the game and finish up some of the PvE content I’d skipped so I could see if there was any fun to be had roaming WvW solo (a bit, but heh – finding a balanced, challenging fight is pretty hard).
I’d be willing to bet that the window for gaining critical mass has closed, and while there will certainly be a core fanbase playing for some time to come, the game is unlikely to achieve the esport status the developers hoped for.
I imagine that it’s hard for a free to play game to have more than 2 developers.
The lack of money coming into them is probaly the reason they worked on payed tournaments first and new PvE content that provide them with a small amount of income.
If they don’t make money, they can’t hire more people.
Well, this assumption is absolutely false. There’s a reason even free to play (GW is buy to play) games survive, and indeed thrive (Maplestory? Vindictus?) and that’s because cash shops actually bring in plenty of money. This is on top of the multiple millions they make from box sales alone for buy to play games. Fact is, if money were ACTUALLY an issue with buy to play or free to play, every game ever would go for subscriptions. Don’t be naive, businesses are out there to make money. I can’t imagine your thought process here. ANet’s publisher (owner?) is NCSoft. That alone should speak volumes.
It’s disappointing because some classes like the necro have a crippling number of bugs, some of them from as early as beta, that have yet to be fixed
At this rate, even with 2 hardworking and extremely dedicated employees, how can I expect the game to ever be balanced when most of my minor traits don’t even work correctly yet or are so bad I’d prefer nothing (Reanimator, Gluttony)?
I am at least happy that one of the trait tree bonuses that formely did nothing has been fixed 2 months in though
A large number of people already have left, and aren’t likely to look back.
My old tourney team dwindled from having 5 people online pretty regularly to 4, to 3, to 2, and now to only me being the only relatively active player over a 2 week period. It’s also been over a week since I set foot in the mists except to get free travel back to LA, since I figured I could keep bashing my head against the dumb tpvp metagame with what few pug groups I could find that weren’t terrible, or I could get some moneys worth out of the game and finish up some of the PvE content I’d skipped so I could see if there was any fun to be had roaming WvW solo (a bit, but heh – finding a balanced, challenging fight is pretty hard).
I’d be willing to bet that the window for gaining critical mass has closed, and while there will certainly be a core fanbase playing for some time to come, the game is unlikely to achieve the esport status the developers hoped for.
League of Legends.
Took a year to become esport-ready, and much longer to become the #1 esport in the world.
In the first few months, class balance changes, format changes, etc.
People will be back.
The moment the game gets spectator mode and other esport-friendly changes, people will be back and/or new people will take the glory.
“Alright, let’s begin testing. I’ll hop on my thief and you try to kill me with whatever other class you’d like. … Now, now, when you’re the senior developer, you can test the thief.”
Anyway…actually anet people use warriors not thieves
Two people working on balance is very good, balance is not the same as bug fixes as someone with basic comprehension skills has already pointed out.
The patch was well done. Anet tackled a ton of balance issues, no huge nerf hammer a lot of bug fixes and careful changes to classes. Very good balance patch.
I still have issues with Mist pvp being so isolated from the rest of the game, balance issues is not what makes pvp zones empty ‘fun factor’ and rewards is what gets the casuals into it. PvE and WvW side of the game needs a tie into sPvP even a small one like RA had Z-key farming HA had chest with skins, Spvp and Tpvp will be a very small community if the casuals have no reason to do it over WvW.
The usual video game team has one lead designer, a couple of designers (each handling some of the subsections of the game) and many programmers and artists and many more testers.
Designers DECIDE things. We don’t want too many designers – you need a clear singular vision for the game. (that’s why most teams have a single lead designer, or director, or producer.)
We don’t know how many programmers are working on balance. But hopefully more than 2 :P
Class balance doesn’t seem like the kind of thing you really want a big team working on. Just imagine 20 people trying to balance a seesaw at the same time: Everyone sees that one side is a little too light and adds their own rock and suddenly the seesaw swings wildly the other way. You just need a few people who are aware of the whole picture and capable of making informed logical decisions. Too many people working at once just makes it more difficult to stay on top of the current state of the game (when other designers are tweaking stuff in their own time).
That said.. They should put a kittenload of people on fixing bugged traits and skills as soon as possible so that the balance people can actually start balancing from a perspective that isn’t skewed by traits and skills that don’t work correctly.
Anet folks, don’t be disheartened by the bad comments, I too hoped for more, but I do not see the full picture like you guys can. I think people just expect a bit too much from you guys, I personally am here for the long haul and appreciate any fixes you can give us. But I too echo the sentiment about the bugged traits / runes / skills etc being a priority to fix, do that and you will have a clearer picture.. but from this update it seems this is your intention to gradually do.
My advice would be to lay back on the massive pve events for a month or two and devote some more resources to improving pvp. Just my 2 cents.
I hope people don’t think the designers are the team of programmers who actually implement changes. The designers only really give direction whether the community approves of it or not.
It’s disappointing because some classes like the necro have a crippling number of bugs, some of them from as early as beta, that have yet to be fixed
At this rate, even with 2 hardworking and extremely dedicated employees, how can I expect the game to ever be balanced when most of my minor traits don’t even work correctly yet or are so bad I’d prefer nothing (Reanimator, Gluttony)?
I am at least happy that one of the trait tree bonuses that formely did nothing has been fixed 2 months in though
You realise that pvp balance designers arent bugfixers, right?
Then you should know that making small changes IS the way to balance a game like this.
Look at how the meta shifted so drastically with every big update.
One that screams out as the biggest was the 4 paragons 4 iway warriors running fear me holding halls for a solid 20 hours.
Or the assassins spamming an offhand attack that triggered the dervish aura to deal massive amounts of AOE just exploding everything.
Forget about just balance changes; let’s get all the bugs sorted out already.
Doesn’t really inspire confidence about the future of the game if ArenaNet is only willing to shell out the bones for two people to work on this stuff.
hahaha, can i agree? or will I be punished? hahhaha
+1 anyway
Then you should know that making small changes IS the way to balance a game like this.
Look at how the meta shifted so drastically with every big update.
One that screams out as the biggest was the 4 paragons 4 iway warriors running fear me holding halls for a solid 20 hours.
Or the assassins spamming an offhand attack that triggered the dervish aura to deal massive amounts of AOE just exploding everything.
Forget about just balance changes; let’s get all the bugs sorted out already.
I agree.
You can’t balance skills that don’t work as intended as you are just going to have to rebalance them when they do start working as intended.
I am done with this thread, its full people feeding the storm in the teacup.
Was it the patch I was expecting? Nope.
Did the patch address issues that needed addressing? Yes.
Did they break any skills in the process? Nope.
As far as I am concerned, this is fine.
Anet seem to have learnt from the mistakes they made in balancing GW1, which is nothing but a good thing.
I hope people don’t think the designers are the team of programmers who actually implement changes. The designers only really give direction whether the community approves of it or not.
That isn’t what the quote suggests. He says “give us time, we only have two designers working on skills” in a thread about the lack of fixes in the patch.
I hope people don’t think the designers are the team of programmers who actually implement changes. The designers only really give direction whether the community approves of it or not.
That isn’t what the quote suggests. He says “give us time, we only have two designers working on skills” in a thread about the lack of fixes in the patch.
Designers (in this case) work on the creation and function of skills. They give the ok to the programmers on how they want it implemented into the game. If the designers are just slow and clueless on the directed fixes and balancing of classes, the process is held up. Whether there are only 2 designers or not, incompetence is still incompetence.
My suggestion: Get new designers who work faster, listen to the unbiased part of the community and overall work more efficiently or.. continue to lose your disheartened player base over this pattern of overly negative changes.
