Guild Wars 2

Mesmer was not one that I thought needed a buff. It was already one of the best. The slight downside of needing a target to stealth off of offered nice, but limited counterplay. Yet other downed states that have too much counter play see no change (war/eng/necro)? Am I missing something?

Wars have too much counter play? Their down states is one of the best in game and almost uncounterable. I’ve seen a warrior use his downed-state-rez to revive his whole team by stomping.

The change for mesmers are mainly because of thieves. It was something they very much needed… I don’t run a mesmer and I feel their grief..

Saiyan.1704:

Wars have too much counter play? Their down states is one of the best in game and almost uncounterable. I’ve seen a warrior use his downed-state-rez to revive his whole team by stomping.

The change for mesmers are mainly because of thieves. It was something they very much needed… I don’t run a mesmer and I feel their grief..

That’s wars #3 which is hard to get to since their #2 is so horrid. A single target slow moving projectile… countered by block, blind, stability, two people stomping, tiny pebbles in the way (los), dodge (will be able to attempt stomp again before #3 is up)… vs mesmer which was… stealth.

Even when they are able to get off their #3 they are usually pretty easy to control. They can res, attack, and stomp, but they can’t cap.

Back in the day ele’s current #2 was their #3 and vice versa. It was changed because if you can’t even get to your #3 because your #2 is so bad, there is little point in it.

Aberrant.6749:

Mesmer was not one that I thought needed a buff. It was already one of the best. The slight downside of needing a target to stealth off of offered nice, but limited counterplay. Yet other downed states that have too much counter play see no change (war/eng/necro)? Am I missing something?

The error here is calling it a buff. Rather its quality of life improvement. Quite literally.

There is no good reason why the skill shouldn’t be able to be activated once its off CD.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Aberrant.6749:

Mesmer was not one that I thought needed a buff. It was already one of the best. The slight downside of needing a target to stealth off of offered nice, but limited counterplay. Yet other downed states that have too much counter play see no change (war/eng/necro)? Am I missing something?

The error here is calling it a buff. Rather its quality of life improvement. Quite literally.

There is no good reason why the skill shouldn’t be able to be activated once its off CD.

It had counterplay before. It will not after the patch. That’s not quality of life. That’s a buff.

Even if warrior would hit with #2 you can still stomp before #3 is up. ’Nuff said.

The change was made because of the relationship between Thief and Mesmer.
Thief hard-counters Mesmer more than any other counter in the game (I would say the only other HARD counter is Necro vs condi Engi). A thief can drop a mes in a second, then stealth for stomp preventing the Mesmer from getting time for team support from res. It is a good change, and I would do more towards evening the missmatch without nerfing thief or buffing mes, such as a change to consume plasma or allowing power block to effect thief weapon skills.

Aberrant.6749:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Aberrant.6749:

Mesmer was not one that I thought needed a buff. It was already one of the best. The slight downside of needing a target to stealth off of offered nice, but limited counterplay. Yet other downed states that have too much counter play see no change (war/eng/necro)? Am I missing something?

The error here is calling it a buff. Rather its quality of life improvement. Quite literally.

There is no good reason why the skill shouldn’t be able to be activated once its off CD.

It had counterplay before. It will not after the patch. That’s not quality of life. That’s a buff.

Seems like someone doesn’t notice a single of 3 very distinct differences between clone and Mesmer.
I would suggest pressing skill 1 once before you press F to check if the target you want to finish is actually a Mesmer and not the clone.

Neptune.2570:

The change was made because of the relationship between Thief and Mesmer.
Thief hard-counters Mesmer more than any other counter in the game (I would say the only other HARD counter is Necro vs condi Engi). A thief can drop a mes in a second, then stealth for stomp preventing the Mesmer from getting time for team support from res. It is a good change, and I would do more towards evening the missmatch without nerfing thief or buffing mes, such as a change to consume plasma or allowing power block to effect thief weapon skills.

I would be fine with them changing it as long as there was still some counter play involved. Changing a downed state that has one counter (stealth) into one that has none is lazy… expecially considering that that war/necro/eng downed states are reasonable have so many counters.

CruleD.7380:

Seems like someone doesn’t notice a single of 3 very distinct differences between clone and Mesmer.
I would suggest pressing skill 1 once before you press F to check if the target you want to finish is actually a Mesmer and not the clone.

That has nothing to do with this. I have no problem telling the clone from the mesmer. The mes is the 2nd one to appear and has an arrow above his head. It’s pretty obvious.

The issue is that mesmer’s downed state is already strong, and they are removing all counter play to their #2 (it will no longer require a target to activate) while other classes have too many counters. Please read other posts more carefully so you don’t get confused next time

Yea, I’m kinda sad to see this since it just kills off a bit more counterplay. This is particularly sad when you look at something like the necro downed state.

Aberrant.6749:

Neptune.2570:

The change was made because of the relationship between Thief and Mesmer.
Thief hard-counters Mesmer more than any other counter in the game (I would say the only other HARD counter is Necro vs condi Engi). A thief can drop a mes in a second, then stealth for stomp preventing the Mesmer from getting time for team support from res. It is a good change, and I would do more towards evening the missmatch without nerfing thief or buffing mes, such as a change to consume plasma or allowing power block to effect thief weapon skills.

I would be fine with them changing it as long as there was still some counter play involved. Changing a downed state that has one counter (stealth) into one that has none is lazy… expecially considering that that war/necro/eng downed states are reasonable have so many counters.

I see what you’re saying but also consider that Mesmer (along with Thief) is the easiest class to Dps out once there in downed state. This change does only effect the relationship between Mes/Thief. All other can dps a Mesmer faster then stomping twice as it is.

Saiyan.1704:

Wars have too much counter play? Their down states is one of the best in game and almost uncounterable-

Im going to stop you there.

Hammer toss is useless against blind, block, stealth, has a long cast time, and is easily dodgeable.

Even if you get hit by it, you still have enough time to stomp a war before their Vengeance is even usable.

Theres too much counter play. read up on the down state for Wars before thinking they’re remotely useful on the ground if someone is reasonably aware of them being down.

Neptune.2570:

The change was made because of the relationship between Thief and Mesmer.
Thief hard-counters Mesmer more than any other counter in the game (I would say the only other HARD counter is Necro vs condi Engi). A thief can drop a mes in a second, then stealth for stomp preventing the Mesmer from getting time for team support from res. It is a good change, and I would do more towards evening the missmatch without nerfing thief or buffing mes, such as a change to consume plasma or allowing power block to effect thief weapon skills.

yeah too bad that if thief actually goes down as well he has 0 chance to ever get up because mesmer AI is still up and kicking his precious, let’s not forget that fact

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, I’m kinda sad to see this since it just kills off a bit more counterplay. This is particularly sad when you look at something like the necro downed state.

I would say that a Necro can be really dangerous when downed if they are speced for downed damage. In a close fight even if you go down first you’ll have a decent chance to down them as well and you’ll probably win that downed fight. I’m not saying it’s amazing, but that’s probably what the balance team considers when they think about buffing the Necro downed state.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, I’m kinda sad to see this since it just kills off a bit more counterplay. This is particularly sad when you look at something like the necro downed state.

I would say that a Necro can be really dangerous when downed if they are speced for downed damage. In a close fight even if you go down first you’ll have a decent chance to down them as well and you’ll probably win that downed fight. I’m not saying it’s amazing, but that’s probably what the balance team considers when they think about buffing the Necro downed state.

Specing into downed state made me… hue hue hue.

Well the change is quite obviously there to help Mesmer against Thieves. I suppose Rangers, Engineers and other Mesmers that rely on stealth stomps might have to try a bit harder. It won’t change the outcome of most fights against a Mesmer though. You still don’t need stability or a source of blind as the Mesmer cannot CC you. Also, Deception is still chaotic and can actually make things worse for a Mesmer at times.

It probably won’t help a mes vs a thief though. If they want to soften hard counters, I’m all for it, but it should be done by adding in more counterplay against the dominant class while they are still up, instead of removing counterplay from multiple classes.

You still don’t need stability or blind… because they already did nothing to help you stomp a mes even before these changes in the first place…

Saiyan.1704:

Wars have too much counter play? Their down states is one of the best in game and almost uncounterable. I’ve seen a warrior use his downed-state-rez to revive his whole team by stomping.

thats like saying, necros down stat is one of the best in game, because i saw a necro feared some one off the edge and rezed the whole team including himself

Simon.3794:

Saiyan.1704:

Wars have too much counter play? Their down states is one of the best in game and almost uncounterable. I’ve seen a warrior use his downed-state-rez to revive his whole team by stomping.

thats like saying, necros down stat is one of the best in game, because i saw a necro feared some one off the edge and rezed the whole team including himself

He’s also ignoring that the entire team was down, but they couldn’t finish anyone off before the war got back up and stomped some one. It’s not the war #3 being strong and, but the team being bad. Same with the dude that positioned himself near a ledge where he could get feared off and killed. Same with people that don’t put themselves behind some one they are ressing (or whatever) and then get pulled by an eng. These #2’s are bad to the point where others need to seriously misplay.