PIC! Learn to ROTATE please!

PIC! Learn to ROTATE please!

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

Im tired of Pvp players thinking that they lost b.c “Oh they had 2 warriors and we didnt” or “Oh they have a decap engi with a ele tag team at home” or “they must be on TS and we arnt”

NO, No and again NOOOOO, its b.c you run solo to outman fights, fight you cant handle, or your fighting off point CHASING a class faster than you… “see this way to much” simply you dont rotate.

Not saying everyone doesnt, and Honestly the sad truth, most on the forums know this and its the players that “dont” go out of there way to read an dlearn more about the game (Talking about those that dont go to the forums, reddit, guild wars guru/wiki etc.. to try and better understand).

The Picture below is an example

Was just playing a game, and this player (will not be named) say “they have better team comp” when they didnt, we did actually.

  • I was at home, I call out “3 home, home lost”
  • 1 player comes, and died,
  • 2nd player comes again.. solo.. and died
  • 2 on mid with no enemies whole time
  • I start to go far, I see Inc home, I call out “Inc home, 4 home”
  • the 2 dead respawn and go home… they died
  • I tell Mid ppl watch out inc mid and I got the Cap far
  • I ask for help at far (sense a mesmer was bouncing between mid and Home didnt want a portal on me) and to look out for inc to mid
  • The 2 dead ones…. run back home an died.

Please learn to rotate, here are some tips

  • If your Out manned and/or you know you cant win the fight, Dont try it
  • If you can tell (mini map) where all 5 are and CLEARLY your out manned on a point, holding 1 strong and 0 on another, go take it.
  • If you have 1 point, 1 is contested and they have 1, there is a 2v2, a 2v2 and 1 enemy holding there point (not helping either fight) go support your team mates, make it a 3v2 spike them down fast then that 1 goes helps the other (IF they are still alive and you can help them win) Dont run off to the other and make it a 1v1. What will happen is you might lose a 2v2 and now your 2 man down and they are 2 men up over you.

Disclaimer Im not an amazing Pvp’er, but I would say Im above average, I may not knowall the tricks, and some of the info I do know may have a better way, so please dont tell me Im a stupid player and just give better advise, PS. Im terrible at english.

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Posted by: TheGreatA.4192

TheGreatA.4192

Being in the right place at the right time pretty much separates the good players from the bad in this game mode.

There’s very little that can be done about players who don’t have the brain for positioning and cannot understand the “flow” of a game. I usually try to avoid playing games with those type of players, even if they are super duel masters. Won’t matter if they are always in the wrong freaking place.

Even one person can win a game for the team if he’s constantly making unfair 3v2s, 2v1s happen and also wins his 1on1s or decaps enemy points when they are zerging.

Metsän Suojelija (guard)/Puun Halaaja (engi)/Pieni Musta Rotta (warrior)/Viher Rauha (necro)

(edited by TheGreatA.4192)

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

Being in the right place at the right time pretty much separates the good players from the bad in this game mode.

There’s very little that can be done about players who don’t have the brain for positioning and cannot understand the “flow” of a game. I usually try to avoid playing games with those type of players, even if they are super duel masters. Won’t matter if they are always in the wrong freaking place.

Even one person can win a game for the team if he’s constantly making unfair 3v2s, 2v1s happen and also wins his 1on1s or decaps enemy points when they are zerging.

Had to Bold that and say +1

SAB or RIOT

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Posted by: Keksmuffin.1450

Keksmuffin.1450

To be honest rotations in soloq can be pretty random sometimes, people usually don’t call out numbers, minimap doesn’t tell you much when there are a lot of people on one point.

I would just say go for even fights that you can win, don’t fight on enemy points unless you know/think that you can win it fast.

If people would actually tryhard, call numbers and talk about strategy in teamchat you could do more but as it is people usually don’t do that in soloq.

Bullet Punch

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Now if only everyone who soloQs could read and practice this, it might make games more competitive.

But realistically it only takes 1 or 2 bad players to ruin a whole match.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Much truth in this thread.

I’ll take a group that can communicate and be smart about watching the map over a team of super awesome fighters any day.

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Posted by: manveruppd.7601

manveruppd.7601

+1 OP, don’t rambo a guarded point, go help out your teammates. It almost doesn’t matter what you’re running if you’re tujrning a 2v2 into an outmanned fight.

A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

Proper rotations and strategy are even MORE important than fighting skill, tbh.

To add to what you said, consider your enemy team-comp when deciding on a quick strategy. For instance, got an easy win recently because my team had 0 thieves, opposing team had 2 thieves. If we push 3 points, we play into their mobility advantage, letting them constantly +1 us and win every fight. By focusing on juts holding 2 points, we completely nullify their thieve’s rotational advantage, and force them into teamfights where they are MUCH weaker.

Further, the other team then streamed into points we own (and were winning a fight at) 1 at a time, allowing us to constantly hold an advantage and them to feel snowballed.

Similarly, in games when the other team has a bunker and you don’t, just abandon that point and force their bunker to afk there. Keep an eye on the map, and as soon as he leaves the point, go get a free decap.

Further, unless you can quickly win your 1v1, are bunky enough to hold a 2v1 for a long time, can get a quick decap, or have team-mates joining you, don’t get into a 1v1 over a point the other team controls. Fighting a hambow on a point he controls will either end up with you +1’d and killed, or just beaten outright. You would be better served to join your team-mates in an ongoing fight to give your side a numbers advantage.

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Posted by: Wolf.5816

Wolf.5816

Excellent advice in here.

I used to be one of those “Rambo hot join Heros”. I loved fighting 2 players at a time and coming out on top. I would seek out the challenge of a Necromancer when on my Condition Engineer, and gleefully rush into a fight against a Cheddar Bow Warrior. I would do these things to test my skills as a competitive player, and I would win these fights. Having played this game competitively since launch I was a fierce 1v1 opponent.

Then after fighting this Long Bro Warrior for 6 minutes waiting out his defy pain, stability and Berserker stance he finally fell and I was the victor. “An excellent start to this match” I thought to my self as I aquired my first kill of the game.

Only to look up and realize that they had back capped our home point and won the mid fight. Effectively demoralizing my Team Que tourney team and won the game with minimal resistance.

It was essentially because of my decision our team lost a crucial battle, and although I won a battle we lost the war.

I now play to win, focusing on self preservation as well as the preservation of my allies.
I relize now if you wish to win each game you must focus on the points/mechanics of each map and be aware of your enemies and allies movement instead of and focusing on the next thrilling one sided duel you can have.

Save that for hot joins.

Veteran of The Mists & Professional Engineer
Dingo King-Hound King-Coyoti King-Thylacine King-Hyena King

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Posted by: Chicago Jack.5647

Chicago Jack.5647

Ahh the classic, 3-to-4-man-rush-far-to-dominate-and-create-panic-then-hope-they-trickle-into-their-home-point-death-factory technique. It works pretty well in solo-que when you have a lot of burst classes and the opposing team has a guardian (and you don’t).

(edited by Chicago Jack.5647)

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Posted by: Phantaram.1265

Phantaram.1265

Rotations are important as you said. However complaining that your team didn’t have warriors/guardians like the other team is a completely valid complaint as those classes make rotations way easier.

Basically, if you don’t have those classes and you make one small mistake in rotation (its solo queue this will happen every single game) bad things will happen. I’ve had teams over commit to a home point and make it back to mid in time because we had a warrior there rather than a necro or mesmer.

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Posted by: Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

tl;dr version:

Control your player numbers on the map, because the only way that you can succinctly and efficiently earn victories in Rock-Paper-Scissors Online is by always going into even-numbered fights with an invulnerability tank who sits on the point and presses buttons while a DPS spammer stands off of the point and presses buttons or by simply making every fight an “(x+1) vs x” affair in your favor.

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Posted by: SoLeciTO.3490

SoLeciTO.3490

Man thanks, thanks, thanks!

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Posted by: Chicago Jack.5647

Chicago Jack.5647

Then after fighting this Long Bro Warrior for 6 minutes waiting out his defy pain, stability and Berserker stance he finally fell and I was the victor. “An excellent start to this match” I thought to my self as I aquired my first kill of the game.

Only to look up and realize that they had back capped our home point and won the mid fight. Effectively demoralizing my Team Que tourney team and won the game with minimal resistance.

Long long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I once fought a guardian at our home point to steal his mace crack. Me and another squishy pushed to mid because there was a solo warrior there. I bassied up, and was able to basically stunlock the guy for about 5 seconds. While he’s running around like a chicken with his head cut off, his passive endure pain procced. “No big deal,” I said to myself, “I’ll just autoattack him to maintain poison on him and he’ll die in no time.” After about 3 seconds, his friends showed up and destroyed us all. The end.

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Posted by: SoLeciTO.3490

SoLeciTO.3490

Then after fighting this Long Bro Warrior for 6 minutes waiting out his defy pain, stability and Berserker stance he finally fell and I was the victor. “An excellent start to this match” I thought to my self as I aquired my first kill of the game.

Only to look up and realize that they had back capped our home point and won the mid fight. Effectively demoralizing my Team Que tourney team and won the game with minimal resistance.

Long long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I once fought a guardian at our home point to steal his mace crack. Me and another squishy pushed to mid because there was a solo warrior there. I bassied up, and was able to basically stunlock the guy for about 5 seconds. While he’s running around like a chicken with his head cut off, his passive endure pain procced. “No big deal,” I said to myself, “I’ll just autoattack him to maintain poison on him and he’ll die in no time.” After about 3 seconds, his friends showed up and destroyed us all. The end.

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Posted by: The Primary.6371

The Primary.6371

Im tired of Pvp players thinking that they lost b.c “Oh they had 2 warriors and we didnt” or “Oh they have a decap engi with a ele tag team at home” or “they must be on TS and we arnt”

NO, No and again NOOOOO, its b.c you run solo to outman fights, fight you cant handle, or your fighting off point CHASING a class faster than you… “see this way to much” simply you dont rotate.

Not saying everyone doesnt, and Honestly the sad truth, most on the forums know this and its the players that “dont” go out of there way to read an dlearn more about the game (Talking about those that dont go to the forums, reddit, guild wars guru/wiki etc.. to try and better understand).

The Picture below is an example

Was just playing a game, and this player (will not be named) say “they have better team comp” when they didnt, we did actually.

  • I was at home, I call out “3 home, home lost”
  • 1 player comes, and died,
  • 2nd player comes again.. solo.. and died
  • 2 on mid with no enemies whole time
  • I start to go far, I see Inc home, I call out “Inc home, 4 home”
  • the 2 dead respawn and go home… they died
  • I tell Mid ppl watch out inc mid and I got the Cap far
  • I ask for help at far (sense a mesmer was bouncing between mid and Home didnt want a portal on me) and to look out for inc to mid
  • The 2 dead ones…. run back home an died.

Please learn to rotate, here are some tips

  • If your Out manned and/or you know you cant win the fight, Dont try it
  • If you can tell (mini map) where all 5 are and CLEARLY your out manned on a point, holding 1 strong and 0 on another, go take it.
  • If you have 1 point, 1 is contested and they have 1, there is a 2v2, a 2v2 and 1 enemy holding there point (not helping either fight) go support your team mates, make it a 3v2 spike them down fast then that 1 goes helps the other (IF they are still alive and you can help them win) Dont run off to the other and make it a 1v1. What will happen is you might lose a 2v2 and now your 2 man down and they are 2 men up over you.

Disclaimer Im not an amazing Pvp’er, but I would say Im above average, I may not knowall the tricks, and some of the info I do know may have a better way, so please dont tell me Im a stupid player and just give better advise, PS. Im terrible at english.

It’s pretty funny how the majority of you people are trying to disguise a “noob rage thread” by making it look like a teaching attempt.

What is with this rotate crap anyways, do you want noobs to constantly turn around or as you would type it (rotate) in a clockwise or anticlockwise fashion?

Can’t you spell it out as it is from the beginning with these points:

  1. Communication
  2. Experience (that’s very lol for needing experience to control giant circles)
  3. Player killing knowledge
  4. Survivability understanding.
  5. Spec synergy

(edited by The Primary.6371)

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Posted by: Faux.1937

Faux.1937

Im tired of Pvp players thinking that they lost b.c “Oh they had 2 warriors and we didnt” or “Oh they have a decap engi with a ele tag team at home” or “they must be on TS and we arnt”

NO, No and again NOOOOO, its b.c you run solo to outman fights, fight you cant handle, or your fighting off point CHASING a class faster than you… “see this way to much” simply you dont rotate.

Not saying everyone doesnt, and Honestly the sad truth, most on the forums know this and its the players that “dont” go out of there way to read an dlearn more about the game (Talking about those that dont go to the forums, reddit, guild wars guru/wiki etc.. to try and better understand).

The Picture below is an example

Was just playing a game, and this player (will not be named) say “they have better team comp” when they didnt, we did actually.

  • I was at home, I call out “3 home, home lost”
  • 1 player comes, and died,
  • 2nd player comes again.. solo.. and died
  • 2 on mid with no enemies whole time
  • I start to go far, I see Inc home, I call out “Inc home, 4 home”
  • the 2 dead respawn and go home… they died
  • I tell Mid ppl watch out inc mid and I got the Cap far
  • I ask for help at far (sense a mesmer was bouncing between mid and Home didnt want a portal on me) and to look out for inc to mid
  • The 2 dead ones…. run back home an died.

Please learn to rotate, here are some tips

  • If your Out manned and/or you know you cant win the fight, Dont try it
  • If you can tell (mini map) where all 5 are and CLEARLY your out manned on a point, holding 1 strong and 0 on another, go take it.
  • If you have 1 point, 1 is contested and they have 1, there is a 2v2, a 2v2 and 1 enemy holding there point (not helping either fight) go support your team mates, make it a 3v2 spike them down fast then that 1 goes helps the other (IF they are still alive and you can help them win) Dont run off to the other and make it a 1v1. What will happen is you might lose a 2v2 and now your 2 man down and they are 2 men up over you.

Disclaimer Im not an amazing Pvp’er, but I would say Im above average, I may not knowall the tricks, and some of the info I do know may have a better way, so please dont tell me Im a stupid player and just give better advise, PS. Im terrible at english.

It’s pretty funny how the majority of you people are trying to disguise a “noob rage thread” by making it look like a teaching attempt.

What is with this rotate crap anyways, do you want noobs to constantly turn around or as you would type it (rotate) in a clockwise or anticlockwise fashion?

Can’t you spell it out as it is from the beginning with these points:

  1. Communication
  2. Experience (that’s very lol for needing experience to control giant circles)
  3. Player killing knowledge
  4. Survivability understanding.
  5. Spec synergy

So.. your saying b.c Im trying to teach noobs (or anyone for that matter) that all my points, and reasons are invalid b.c they are noobs? yes im tired of players doing silly things, but that doesnt mean I wana Hate on them it just means I want them to learn and get better so pvp becomes for fun and we grow better as a community.

Giving an example of whats bad and teaching them why it is bad, then showing them the proper way of doing it (without using players names as an example b.c we dont wana single anyone out) is a valid way to teach.

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Posted by: holodoc.5748

holodoc.5748

Rotations are imho not the most important part in sPvP because of the vast diversity of builds which can break up the “math”. A quick example – bunker builds. Yesterday I had a situation where three of us were trying to decap “far” with a guardian sitting on it (“mid” was contested, “home” was safe). All three of us were pretty high on DPS/condi/burst yet the guardian managed to stay alive no matter what we did. I have never seen someone being capable of absorbing / blocking so much damage. Obvious tankiness and high experience of the enemy player at it’s best!

The most important thing imho is for players to actually know how to properly play their profession. Rotations don’t mean anything if you are a high DPS player yet you don’t get to chance to unleash all that damage.

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Posted by: The Primary.6371

The Primary.6371

Rotations are imho not the most important part in sPvP because of the vast diversity of builds which can break up the “math”. A quick example – bunker builds. Yesterday I had a situation where three of us were trying to decap “far” with a guardian sitting on it (“mid” was contested, “home” was safe). All three of us were pretty high on DPS/condi/burst yet the guardian managed to stay alive no matter what we did. I have never seen someone being capable of absorbing / blocking so much damage. Obvious tankiness and high experience of the enemy player at it’s best!

The most important thing imho is for players to actually know how to properly play their profession. Rotations don’t mean anything if you are a high DPS player yet you don’t get to chance to unleash all that damage.

Thank you (15 character w/e)

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Posted by: Eyia Hellhide.7320

Eyia Hellhide.7320

Well to rotate properly is not that easy as it sounds if you have more than one inexperienced players in your team. After 2000+ games on Guardian I have an idea what I’m expected to do, but the less experienced guys need to be told. We use Ts and it should be easy, but I just can’t keep an eye on everyone of the team and tell them where to go and what to do.

Maybe I’m stupid or maybe I’ll be able to do it after 2000 more matches, but right now we act more like pugs with Ts and use the well known tactic “Cokroach”. You know, when you switch the lights on and the cokroaches start to run around very fast and without direction. If you catch them you stomp them.

It’s frustrating. Any suggestions what to do to improve my leading skills?

Edit: the typo in the word “cokroach” is on purpose, otherwise it got censored as “kittenroach”

The night is dark and full of turnips.

(edited by Eyia Hellhide.7320)

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Posted by: manveruppd.7601

manveruppd.7601

Rotations are imho not the most important part in sPvP because of the vast diversity of builds which can break up the “math”. A quick example – bunker builds.

Talking about “rotating” doesn’t mean doing a fixed ring-around-the-rosey around the map. It means reacting and pre-empting your opponents movements with whichever members of your roster can do the job best. You should listen to Grouch interviewing Helseth on Ready Up a few weeks ago for examples of what I mean, since he explains it better than I could (in fact he was talking specifically about how his burst-heavy team rotates against bunker-heavy teams, so an apt response to the example you used).

The most important thing imho is for players to actually know how to properly play their profession. Rotations don’t mean anything if you are a high DPS player yet you don’t get to chance to unleash all that damage.

Exactly, and part of that is knowing where to unleash that damage on. Pushing buttons on its own isn’t that hard (although I often wished I had 12 fingers like that pianist on Gatacca when playing elementalist).

A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.