PLEASE do the PVP/PVE split for mesmers.
In this game people have a choice for pve and pvp, it is not fair because one glass is good pvp, it must have a bad pve experience.
For those who argues that warriors are bad pvpers, it is irrelivent, im solely talking about pve here where mobs stand in 100b for the entire time. Keep both aspects separate and make that choice clear for players to select.
no body likes to be forced on onething.
Can’t say I don’t agree with you on that. There’s a similar thing going on with Cloak and Dagger for Thieves IIRC so I guess it can happen.
Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?
Well, their utility is not very good for PvE, honestly, but Mesmers are not “weak” there at all. In fact, I feel like they are fine.
The problem with PvE is the monster’s AI that makes builds like Guardian’s or Warrior’s GS, among others, insanely overpowered. The foes do not dodge, they do not leave, nothing. They might counter a Mesmer by attacking clones, but they’ll never counter a Warrior by dodging or a Guardian by kiting them or getting out of their symbols.
Although pvp/ pve splits are important for some situations, I think they should be prevented as much as possible, unless there’s no other way. For example, confusion is already split between pvp and pve.
Monster’s AI and lack of party-driven content is what greatly restricts professions and builds in general PvE, not nerfs.
we need to make this happen , before any class balance patch, split pvp and pve, if enough people protest against the current abomination of a balance, they will do it! we just need enough sensible people to stand up against this
Well, their utility is not very good for PvE, honestly, but Mesmers are not “weak” there at all. In fact, I feel like they are fine.
The problem with PvE is the monster’s AI that makes builds like Guardian’s or Warrior’s GS, among others, insanely overpowered. The foes do not dodge, they do not leave, nothing. They might counter a Mesmer by attacking clones, but they’ll never counter a Warrior by dodging or a Guardian by kiting them or getting out of their symbols.
Although pvp/ pve splits are important for some situations, I think they should be prevented as much as possible, unless there’s no other way. For example, confusion is already split between pvp and pve.
Monster’s AI and lack of party-driven content is what greatly restricts professions and builds in general PvE, not nerfs.
i REALLY dont see any sane person would disagree to split pvp/pve, it is just totally obvious some skills are way too good in pve and useless in pvp (100b), it needs to have both aspects balanced, that is a good balance skill.
Currently it is like choosing to level a pvp/pve class, have a pvp good class and crap pve experience or amazing pve experience and get owned in pvp all the time. This isnt the first time such atrocity happend, it plagued any mmo i’ve played, even world of warcraft.
we need to have the ability to choose whether want to pvp or not, if i am choosing mesmer im expecting at least on par pve wise with other class, not being left out in dungeons or become a walking timewarp, because this is what is happening RIGHT now.
words cannot simply describe the importance of this pvp/pve split, do it for the great good of community and class balance, or you can have generic mmo class discrimination with people QQing pvp balance all day.
PvP still needs to be accessible. A casual PvEr needs to be able to decide one day they’re feeling unusually confident and want to try PvP. The class they are familiar with and used to needs to be familiar to them when they enter PvP. It is bad enough that PvP already changes the way armour stats work and even completely removes some stat combos from the game. If 80% of their skills also function differently, you create a divide so big no one will ever dare to cross it. This is why WvW needs to use PvE skills, even if they are insanely overpowered versus players (eg confusion), and why PvE/PvP splits should be avoided at all costs.
I would say no more than 10% of skills being split is a good target to aim for. It sucks when a nerf intended entirely for PvP hits builds you used in other formats, but it’s something we all have to suck up or we may as well develop two completely different and standalone games.
PvP still needs to be accessible. A casual PvEr needs to be able to decide one day they’re feeling unusually confident and want to try PvP. The class they are familiar with and used to needs to be familiar to them when they enter PvP. It is bad enough that PvP already changes the way armour stats work and even completely removes some stat combos from the game. If 80% of their skills also function differently, you create a divide so big no one will ever dare to cross it. This is why WvW needs to use PvE skills, even if they are insanely overpowered versus players (eg confusion), and why PvE/PvP splits should be avoided at all costs.
I would say no more than 10% of skills being split is a good target to aim for. It sucks when a nerf intended entirely for PvP hits builds you used in other formats, but it’s something we all have to suck up or we may as well develop two completely different and standalone games.
simple damage tweak will do, if they nerf mesmer again it is no point for me to play that class anylonger, time to roll a warrior and join dungeon faceroll team.
If the issue wasnt this huge i would never insist on it, but you have a class that is doing 4X more damage to mobs with a press of a button on 6 second cd while i have to blow my entire set of cooldown, something is deeply wrong.
OP brings up perhaps the important part of the whole MMO problem. Balance is hard enough with any PVP situation, but factoring in the PVE side of things makes it near impossible. I have heard Mesmers are a pain to level up, and some have said they are somewhat lacking in PVE, yet in PVP they are the king class without compare. How do you balance without impacting the other. No answer will work, especially because we are talking about damage.
OP brings up perhaps the important part of the whole MMO problem. Balance is hard enough with any PVP situation, but factoring in the PVE side of things makes it near impossible. I have heard Mesmers are a pain to level up, and some have said they are somewhat lacking in PVE, yet in PVP they are the king class without compare. How do you balance without impacting the other. No answer will work, especially because we are talking about damage.
exactly, thats why we need split
PvP still needs to be accessible. A casual PvEr needs to be able to decide one day they’re feeling unusually confident and want to try PvP. The class they are familiar with and used to needs to be familiar to them when they enter PvP. It is bad enough that PvP already changes the way armour stats work and even completely removes some stat combos from the game. If 80% of their skills also function differently, you create a divide so big no one will ever dare to cross it. This is why WvW needs to use PvE skills, even if they are insanely overpowered versus players (eg confusion), and why PvE/PvP splits should be avoided at all costs.
I would say no more than 10% of skills being split is a good target to aim for. It sucks when a nerf intended entirely for PvP hits builds you used in other formats, but it’s something we all have to suck up or we may as well develop two completely different and standalone games.
I’m pretty certain the vast majority of GW2 players are playing PvE rather than PvP so in that case your solution should rather be that the PvP players should “suck it up” when something is changed to adjust PvE gameplay.
The problem is the difference between enemy types in PvP vs PvE. For PvE it’s stupid enemies with lots of health while PvP has the opposite. Balancing for both leads to broken builds in one of the play styles unless splitting occurs. This doesn’t just go for mesmers of course but it’s one case where it’s even more clear than usual since mesmers used to do absolutely catbabies for damage in PvE and skills like portals have no use in dungeons (besides a very few, rare cases)
That’s why I said they should look into the mobs AI before doing any pvp splits of the sort. PvE’s balance REALLY needs an AI that can counter all 8 professions equally well. Would love to see a dev’s reply on that, although I’m not sure if pve devs read the pvp forums.
And yes, Mesmers should get some utility with pve in mind, for a change. Mantra of Pain having an AoE effect? Or redesign Signets with pve’s environment in mind as much as pvp’s.
How about just fix the bug that’s allowing mesmers to get double mind-wrack damage by “tricking” the damage calculator into thinking their one, 3 clone shatter is actually 3, 1-clone shatters?
I’d rather have elegant unified design than split-spells that make it difficult to adapt from pve to pvp.
How about some serious changes to make aoe less clone-dependent and make shatters all condition-based? (seriously!.. shatter based aoe self-counters… it scales inversely with the number of targets because they always kill the clones as they spawn)
I like the might-stacking as-is.. for once i’m getting “gasp” — sparkling bodies — in cursed shore.
its got to a state in pvp where i’d be quite happy if they SmiteBoon’d the hell out of shatter messies.
ofcourse a pvp/pve splite would be required.
im through getting insta killed by mesmers with 20 stacks of might…
love that Anet buffed their FOTM build and then post a forum comment “yes its wicked! we’ll be watching it!”
yes, you’ll be watching…
rather than fixing the game you just watch and every month or so throw a dart at a board while blindfolded to decide what to buff/nerf…
a chimpanzee could design a game with more balance,
what happened to the GW1 devs?
its got to a state in pvp where i’d be quite happy if they SmiteBoon’d the hell out of shatter messies.
ofcourse a pvp/pve splite would be required.
im through getting insta killed by mesmers with 20 stacks of might…love that Anet buffed their FOTM build and then post a forum comment “yes its wicked! we’ll be watching it!”
yes, you’ll be watching…
rather than fixing the game you just watch and every month or so throw a dart at a board while blindfolded to decide what to buff/nerf…
a chimpanzee could design a game with more balance,
what happened to the GW1 devs?
So do you play a backstab thief or a heartseeker thief?
I agree. Please consider to split more into pve and pvp versions.
As a pve mesmer I just want to be viable and competitive in openworld pve (eg. DEs) and sometimes dungeons. I want to contribute in group fighting. =)
Thanks.
I agree. Please consider to split more into pve and pvp versions.
As a pve mesmer I just want to be viable and competitive in openworld pve (eg. DEs) and sometimes dungeons. I want to contribute in group fighting. =)Thanks.
This is doable without splitting pvp from pve.
They need to give us more aoe that is not clone dependent andtone down shatter damage, and/or better yet take shattered stregth and debelitating dissipation even further and shunt our clones even further in the direction of boon and condition source (clones as mobile boon and condition turrets sound stupidly fun, I’d love to see that paired with mantras to produce a rival to heavy water elementalists for a ‘max clone uptime – punishment to attackers for clone death’ group support ).
Mesmer offers tremendous opportunities to get creative instead of going the lazy way out and making us a different class in pvp.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
Yeah, but it doesn’t seem very likely that they would balance it that way, does it?
And if they just want to “nerf” damage/ duration/ cd/ whatever they shall do it for pvp and stay away from pve.
That’s why I said they should look into the mobs AI before doing any pvp splits of the sort. PvE’s balance REALLY needs an AI that can counter all 8 professions equally well. Would love to see a dev’s reply on that, although I’m not sure if pve devs read the pvp forums.
And yes, Mesmers should get some utility with pve in mind, for a change. Mantra of Pain having an AoE effect? Or redesign Signets with pve’s environment in mind as much as pvp’s.
fixing it this way would be taking way too long to clear up this mess of balance, yes mesmer become op at new patch, but look what happend before this patch, mesmer was UTTERLY unplayble become how hard those silly bugs hit them, my mesmer despise full glass cannon exotics level 80 is doing 2k damage, 2K DAMAGE while warriors happly hitting mobs for 13X as much.
This should not happen again, it is blantly obvious the state of balance is the most horrific i’ve experienced, seriously even some indie mmo doesnt have one class doing 13X damage than others in PVE.
lets see how many issues mesmer have at pve:
bugs, just lots of bugs, phantasm missing hits etc.
Utterly slow, no passive speedboost
no passive damage boost, illusion does no damage, bleeding trait bugged.
a walking timewarp in dungeons.
seriously fix these things for pve please -.-
So do you play a backstab thief or a heartseeker thief?
no i play as little FotM as possible, ranger/ engineer/ water dps ele (which is hilariously fun) / axe+mace warrior,
but yes i occasionally hop onto my bunker guardian when i’m sick of getting one shotted by FotM thieves and mezzies.
we need more people to support this and may be devs will do a change! this is not just for the health of mesmer class but all class too
If Anet still plan on making GW2 into an esport game then a split has to happen or they will mess up the game for the majority of their playerbase since PvE and WvW is what most people are doing atm (granted, if spvp became better balanced I think more people would be interested in it again). All skills need not be different but the split would mean that if something is discovered to e.g. be exploitable in PvE then it wouldn’t affect spvp and vice versa.
If Anet still plan on making GW2 into an esport game then a split has to happen or they will mess up the game for the majority of their playerbase since PvE and WvW is what most people are doing atm (granted, if spvp became better balanced I think more people would be interested in it again). All skills need not be different but the split would mean that if something is discovered to e.g. be exploitable in PvE then it wouldn’t affect spvp and vice versa.
glad someone sees the important of this.