Guild Wars 2

honestly, I’ve had just about enough. if youre in a pub game, please, please don’t go far at the start of the match. you aren’t good enough and the team isn’t coordinated for this. everything is wrong with it. if you do:

1. you will die and you will feed points to the other team
2. mid will likely get lost because it will be a 4v3 or 3v3 in their favour.
3. people will spill over into home after mid is lost, resulting in a 3-cap

far can easily be reinforced and a 1v1 will usually turn into a 3v1.

the other thing that grinds my gears is that same Far Hero repeatedly going far, all game. the Far Hero doesn’t respond to begging, reasoning, and pleading from his teammates. HE IS GOING FAR.

going far is nothing but an ego trip for the inexperienced to make themselves stand out in some way as MVP’s and heroes of the game. except it almost always results in a horrible loss.

the Far Hero will spend the rest of the game raging about other team members being inadequate in one way or another.

the standard for pub games is and should remain to be 4/1, or if anything 3/2 to temporarily reinforce home. far can be capped later by a roamer.

thank you for reading this. by getting this off my chest, I will no longer rage in pubs or even complain about people going far. let this thread be the place for that.

The starting play doesn’t matter as much as team coordination and map awareness. Not only that, but the team compositions affect how a match goes down, too. There isn’t just one right way to play a match, and that’s probably why teams stomp pugs so bad 90% of the time.

Although, most of the times it’s hard to find pugs that know how to fight on points or how not to zerg to chase squirrels lol.

What’s a “map awareness?”

The OP has a lack of understanding. Pushing far at the start only hurts your team if that player gets killed quickly. or their home character manages a full cap.

Even if that player loses a 1v1 at far, if they make it last 40 seconds or longer it’s certainly not a loss for your team.

If there is a 4v3 at mid, it will very quickly (less than 15 seconds) become a 4v4 because that means your home person got a free cap and will soon rotate mid. Your team now has even numbered fights and a capture point advantage, assuming your team wasn’t bad enough to get focused down in 10 seconds.

Since I don’t have enough clout to argue with someone who is clearly set in their opinion, please spend 20 minutes of your life listening to this kid talk about rotations. He might be a kid… but he has tons of gw2 clout and he understands rotations pretty darn well.

Merry Christmas

Nothing wrong with going far especially if you can win your 1v1. The only problem is when idiots push into a turret engi, die 1v1 or waste 10 min fighting him instead of letting him afk and make it 4v5 on 2 other points.

Yeah. The OP is entirely wrong.

There are people who push far who yield negative results. However, there are plenty of able who can hold far, or thieves and mesmers who can handle far, and then go back into mid.

PSILO.4068:

What’s a “map awareness?”

I was referring to when you look at the map to see where your teammates and enemies are, which of your teammates is struggling, and of course the basics of moving between points quickly and the different buffs and side objectives that go along with each map. For example, if there are 4 of you zerging down 1 guy at home while another of your teammates is struggling in a 3 v 1 at mid and another enemy has already capped far, it would probably be a good idea to split off and help the guy at mid, especially if the guy you’re zerging down is a bunker guard or something that is keeping the point contested and not dying quickly. :P

Or, a good example from my recent experience is that your teammate pings the mid point saying an enemy engineer is headed there, and there are 3 of you chasing a warrior away from mid, then all 3 of you head to home to help a bunker necro who is fighting a bunker guardian (when your necro has the point capped) leaving mid unguarded. That’s poor map awareness and coordination because the 3 that went home to start a 4 v 1 didn’t realize they were leaving mid unguarded when an enemy was headed there (either that or they just ignored their teammates pings and callouts lol).

crunchyraisin.6054:

Pushing far at the start only hurts your team if that player gets killed quickly.

this is basically my problem, and it’s rampant

SobeSoul.6910:

There are people who push far who yield negative results.

this is MOST players, in a pub ranked match. like those who aren’t with friends or in a semi-organized team with a semi-decent understanding of the game.

also I would say it depends on spec and prof to an extent. im seeing people with inappropriate specs constantly rushing far.

I agree it doesn’t help in pubs. Leave it for pre-mades.

Unless you are clearly outclassed at mid but then everyone should be rotating, and you still shouldn’t have gone far right off the bat.

go far or go home.

You shouldn’t be pushing far unless there is decent communication within your team, and everyone knows their roles. It’s a risky thing to do for the very fact that most pvpers are bad in general. This is like, not new information. lol

By pushing far at start alone you are risking a 3v4 at mid if your enemy split 1-4-0, and if they’re not premade, chances are they did. That 3v4 isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as it’ll only last the ~25 seconds or so it takes whoever your team sent home to back them up. The problems arise when either the 3 you sent mid are not tanky enough to survive 3v4 until backup arrives, which is always a risk in unorganised groups as you generally don’t have an idea what everyone is running and how squishy they are, or if the 4 your enemy sent to mid are able to coordinate a high enough burst to kill one of your 3 quickly at mid, sealing the fight in their favor. This is again a risk because you don’t always know how many dps or how high burst the enemy team will have.

There is also the risk of the enemy sending 2 to their home, including one dps, who will likely be able to finish you off before your home defender reaches mid to turn it into a 4v3, ending in a 4v5 mid with you on respawn.

TL;DR: Risky kitten in PUGs. Chances are you’re screwing over your team somewhere by doing it.

LOL just had a team that sent 2 to far and DIDN’T cap it. I along with a guardian kept up the mid fight against an ele/engi for like way too long without reinforcements. We ended up losing mid and home, because those same losers went back far…just to lose it again.

The insanity.

glock.6590:

Nothing wrong with going far especially if you can win your 1v1. The only problem is when idiots push into a turret engi, die 1v1 or waste 10 min fighting him instead of letting him afk and make it 4v5 on 2 other points.

This is the proper view for farpoint. ALWAYS punish the empty point but never waste your time fighting a camped node if you don’t have decap.

Don’t go Far, because we can’t handle 2 players from opposite team with 4 players from our team. You’re necessary. Don’t be a nab and help.

That’s 90% of times what I see in PvP ranked arenas.

If you are confident that you can win your 1v1 (sometimes 1v2) at Far, and can then hold it against re-attempts to take it, then by all means, go for it. I’ve had some truly incredible victories come from some players (usually Thieves, but sometimes also Guardians and Mesmers) using that strategy, while we had a bunker type (usually me) defending Home and supporting Mid where needed.

But if you’re not confident about it, then it’s best not to risk it and just dominate Middle and hold Home.

Bad players and noobs usualy dont read forums:-)

Tao.5096:

Don’t go Far, because we can’t handle 2 players from opposite team with 4 players from our team. You’re necessary. Don’t be a nab and help.

That’s 90% of times what I see in PvP ranked arenas.

When you push far:
- your team has enough sustain for the midfight (bunker guard, bunker ele, whatever)
- the guy at close has also enough survivability to last long enough for reinforcement
- you are capable of winning 1v1s, or not dying 1v1,2,3 → if you get low you disengage

When you don’t push far:
- your team is full glass, they will get destroyed in mid and on close, so it is useless to push or even win far, because you will get snowballed
- all other cases that aren’t included in the ones i mentioned so far

Go to whatever point you want to. If you suck and going to die quickly then I prefer you distracting them a little bit at far instead of rallying the first person I get downed at mid.

The thing is you should not trust your random teammates, like, never in a bazillion years.
Why should you trust your teammates to survive 10 seconds 3v4 ? go there and make it happen.
Why should you trust your close holder to move to mid after he full caps ? go clsoe yourself so you can type in the chat if you get invaded by 2 or more.
Why would entrust the outcome of the match (because when you soloq there’s no way your team will regroup after a wipe) on other players ? Play it safe and don’t gamble with far.

Lachanche.6859:

The thing is you should not trust your random teammates, like, never in a bazillion years..

for this reason alone, it’s generally not a good idea to stubbornly keep pushing far in pub games, whether or not youre a sick player. if your bad teammates are crumpling at the other points without support, game’s lost anyway.

I agree if your in a pug team where nobody knows each others builds or skill level its safer to run 4/1. Any other split would be better for points but require higher skill cap. Imo 4/1 is just a safer split. Rotation is also easier because once home is capped they move mid and the team has an opportunity to move someone far with mid hopefully still contested.

Also 4v3 the team with 4 can down at least 1 person with a focused combo so having one less person starting mid can really snowball a fight.

Solstice.1097:

Go to whatever point you want to. If you suck and going to die quickly then I prefer you distracting them a little bit at far instead of rallying the first person I get downed at mid.

Neutralizing enemy’s Point should be called a success, even for someone who’s 1st timer or a simple pve player who do pvp for certain stuff(Balthazar back item).

I don’t expect them to kill anyone. The longer they stay alive and neutralize enemy’s point is more than enough for me.

Many people don’t appreciate it.
Don’t know why.

Tao.5096:

Solstice.1097:

Go to whatever point you want to. If you suck and going to die quickly then I prefer you distracting them a little bit at far instead of rallying the first person I get downed at mid.

Neutralizing enemy’s Point should be called a success, even for someone who’s 1st timer or a simple pve player who do pvp for certain stuff(Balthazar back item).

I don’t expect them to kill anyone. The longer they stay alive and neutralize enemy’s point is more than enough for me.

Many people don’t appreciate it.
Don’t know why.

Because you probably made your team lose mid or home in the process. That is what everyone is saying.

Sube Dai.8496:

Tao.5096:

Solstice.1097:

Go to whatever point you want to. If you suck and going to die quickly then I prefer you distracting them a little bit at far instead of rallying the first person I get downed at mid.

Neutralizing enemy’s Point should be called a success, even for someone who’s 1st timer or a simple pve player who do pvp for certain stuff(Balthazar back item).

I don’t expect them to kill anyone. The longer they stay alive and neutralize enemy’s point is more than enough for me.

Many people don’t appreciate it.
Don’t know why.

Because you probably made your team lose mid or home in the process. That is what everyone is saying.

LOL? IF you can decap the point and stay alive…..that is a victory. they are not gaining points off a decapped node, you are in a 1v1 (leaves 4v4 elsewhere) and hopefully you have your home (gaining points).

Also a lot of you assumes the random idiot on oyur home point is smart enough to reinforce mid. 50% of the time that does not happen in pugs. The guy that usually goes home thinks he is best bunker and just sits there. If you can do the above and your teammates loose everything else….nothing will save you. Because if you go mid next time instead…it will then just be 5v5…your teammates died the last even match up, they won’t survive that one either.

When joining a pug you MUST look at team comp carefully. If you are outclassed…you should push far and not mid at all. Pugs are hard to control but there are obvious signs when you are outclassed and wont win a mid fight. You can push 3 far 2 home. Their 1 or 2 they sent home will die and you will cap….mid will be capped and they will split off in both directions. Other pugs never just pick one. They will send more to their home 90% of the time to get it back while pushing 1 or 2 to your home.

All depends on the situation and classes..you must adapt. 4/1 is not always the safe bet.

if your build can consistently win 1v1s and survive a long time in 1v2s, then eventually you will have a 1v3+ at far. if your team isn’t getting completely outplayed everywhere else, this should almost always start things in your favor.

going far comes down to how well you can mechanically fight 1v1 and 1v2 battles, and also knowing when/how to bail/escape.

GhOst is entirely right, but sometimes it’s even worse. I faced many premades ( and actually had issues beating pugs having it) running guard + turret engi + shout war + ele + longbow ranger. They keep 2 points, leave you the third. Turret stays on their home, guardian on mid, rest are just following you.

With a poor setup, i’ve never managed to get how to deal with such a strategy. All got button click to survive in case of unexpected burst, warrior got banner, they can revive easily down teammates, they still got damage,…

In general, the most mobile player should decap(situationally full cap) far when its undefended. If someone is camping it, you should preferable outnumber the opponent somewhere else.

Even for matchup, its an pretty good move to push far from the start, as long as far is neutral and your team isnt outnumbered/dieing somewhere else. If your team is struggling, you should usually fall back and outnumber the opponent over there. Dieing far is of cause very bad for your team and shouldnt happen. Same goes for outnumbering the far defender without killing him quickly.

Thats why every premade is playing with a thief. They´re absolutly superior for this job.

The thing people don’t realize is sometimes they have to suck it up and make plays according to where their other teammates are going. You can’t always expect random pugs to follow your every order. People think this game is about the solo grind; NO. The classic response from the guy with 0 pts at the end of the match is “I keep getting ganked” ya well may be you should adjust your gameplay to the way your teammates are playing. I know points don’t really matter but 0? Do you even tag kills brah? Expecting your mates to adjust to the way you’re playing is stupid, because it won’t always happen. If all your mates know map awareness is key, coordination should be simple and you should be winning those matches, unless your comp is completely countered or they just suck at playing their class.

Jelzouki.4128:

The thing people don’t realize is sometimes they have to suck it up and make plays according to where their other teammates are going. You can’t always expect random pugs to follow your every order. People think this game is about the solo grind; NO. The classic response from the guy with 0 pts at the end of the match is “I keep getting ganked” ya well may be you should adjust your gameplay to the way your teammates are playing. I know points don’t really matter but 0? Do you even tag kills brah? Expecting your mates to adjust to the way you’re playing is stupid, because it won’t always happen. If all your mates know map awareness is key, coordination should be simple and you should be winning those matches, unless your comp is completely countered or they just suck at playing their class.

Oh I had few such matches.
It looked like this:

• went out of spawn point
• went for point
• 3 people jumped on me
• Moa → Immobilize → 2x ranger burst + mesmer conditions
• in last minute I managed to score 55 because finally nailed them spread accross whole map

If you’re focused by few ranged classes, and you’re melee, forget about even tagging.

Tao.5096:

Jelzouki.4128:

The thing people don’t realize is sometimes they have to suck it up and make plays according to where their other teammates are going. You can’t always expect random pugs to follow your every order. People think this game is about the solo grind; NO. The classic response from the guy with 0 pts at the end of the match is “I keep getting ganked” ya well may be you should adjust your gameplay to the way your teammates are playing. I know points don’t really matter but 0? Do you even tag kills brah? Expecting your mates to adjust to the way you’re playing is stupid, because it won’t always happen. If all your mates know map awareness is key, coordination should be simple and you should be winning those matches, unless your comp is completely countered or they just suck at playing their class.

Oh I had few such matches.
It looked like this:

• went out of spawn point
• went for point
• 3 people jumped on me
• Moa -> Immobilize -> 2x ranger burst + mesmer conditions
• in last minute I managed to score 55 because finally nailed them spread accross whole map

If you’re focused by few ranged classes, and you’re melee, forget about even tagging.

There are other exits. I find it hard to believe that the 3 of them camped your spawn while they 2v4ed no problem on the rest of the points to allow the 3 spawn camp that only effected you. You rotated out the the wrong spot consistently.

Tao.5096:

Jelzouki.4128:

The thing people don’t realize is sometimes they have to suck it up and make plays according to where their other teammates are going. You can’t always expect random pugs to follow your every order. People think this game is about the solo grind; NO. The classic response from the guy with 0 pts at the end of the match is “I keep getting ganked” ya well may be you should adjust your gameplay to the way your teammates are playing. I know points don’t really matter but 0? Do you even tag kills brah? Expecting your mates to adjust to the way you’re playing is stupid, because it won’t always happen. If all your mates know map awareness is key, coordination should be simple and you should be winning those matches, unless your comp is completely countered or they just suck at playing their class.

Oh I had few such matches.
It looked like this:

• went out of spawn point
• went for point
• 3 people jumped on me
• Moa -> Immobilize -> 2x ranger burst + mesmer conditions
• in last minute I managed to score 55 because finally nailed them spread accross whole map

If you’re focused by few ranged classes, and you’re melee, forget about even tagging.

nah warrior can get away. stances, block, dodges, sword leap, healing all the while. gotta be quick on the stun break + dodge as soon as they try to lock you down, and don’t start retreating too late!

Of course there are other ways.
But each time I did went for their point, they came.
Not saying same people, but same tactic.
And you can’t do anything when you get Moa thrown at you from stealthed Mesmer.
When you start getting bursted by 3 people at once, then it’s over :P
Simply I was unlucky because on every corner I happened to bump into them.
Happens.

Nevertheless,
Neutralizing Enemy’s point is valuable and people should learn to count it as an advantage and contribution.
I had many such times, where enemy simply scored to 480, and my team was 420.
Kept 2 neutralized points and one for us, and we won.

Like someone did mention,
You go far, you go 1v1, then 1v2 and maybe even 1v3.
I find it as a great advantage to your team, because one teammate turns into Dolly and lure enemy players to their Home, while your Home and Mid welcome you with open arms.

But, if someone who go far – I personally had such matches – did drag attention of even 3 enemy players, and my team couldn’t kill even 1 out of 2 opponents in mid? Couldn’t even neutralize it. Should I facedesk or facepalm?

Had also situations where on my turret engi I was camping our Home. Enemy teammates constantly coming to cap our Home. And some kitten nab flames me for camping Home, because they can’t cap Mid = logic?

To be frank.
No one bothers to see the situation, and tend to burst out and flame others for their own inability.
I’m not denying the fact that there are people who are completely clueless and offer free +5 points for enemy team per encounter, but doesn’t mean they have to go all emotional about a simple pvp match xD
Hence, let’s drop the fact that most of them are Dragon Finisher users with Pinokio noses, who believe it’s something to be proud of.

Tao.5096:

Simply I was unlucky because on every corner I happened to bump into them.
Happens.

That isn’t you being unlucky. That is them having map awareness and you not. Not trying to put you down, just helping you learn. Maybe not all your fault your team isn’t calling out inc’s so then you have no idea where they are. As soon as you see even the 2nd person coming in, you should be disengaging.

as long as you at minimum prevented the cap for awhile and you didn’t die then you helped your team.

if you die at far it wasn’t worth it, unless you prevented cap for at least a full minute or two AND they had to send 1-2 more to far to kill you AND your team used that opportunity to gain upper hand at mid/home. then it was also good.

What people need to learn above going far is how to rotate off of far when the rest of team isn’t winning mid or home instead of camping one point.

GhOst.4019:

Tao.5096:

Simply I was unlucky because on every corner I happened to bump into them.
Happens.

That isn’t you being unlucky. That is them having map awareness and you not. Not trying to put you down, just helping you learn. Maybe not all your fault your team isn’t calling out inc’s so then you have no idea where they are. As soon as you see even the 2nd person coming in, you should be disengaging.

That may be the case.
But I cannot spot enemy team members movement if they don’t engage in fight with my team members. And Battle of Khylo map is nice enough to allow you to sneak up. Especially on Mansion xD

i would say 90% of my losses come down to scrubs repeatedly going far and dying, like theyre stuck on autopilot or something.