Guild Wars 2

Heres why I say it was not needed, max stealth was 25s with torch 4, decoy and mass invis. We could cross the map from one side to another just like a thief (which no one is complaining about) and it would run out before we even got all the way across.

Most Mesmers dont even use all three, so our stealth is only around 14s total. It seems to me that everyone did not like it because when we stealthed you could not just instant burst us. It required you to put in more effort. I invite all my mesmer brothers and sisters to post here and cause a fuss. Make Anet see the error of their ways.

atlrising.5134:

Heres why I say it was not needed, max stealth was 25s with torch 4, decoy and mass invis. We could cross the map from one side to another just like a thief (which no one is complaining about) and it would run out before we even got all the way across.

Most Mesmers dont even use all three, so our stealth is only around 14s total. It seems to me that everyone did not like it because when we stealthed you could not just instant burst us. It required you to put in more effort. I invite all my mesmer brothers and sisters to post here and cause a fuss. Make Anet see the error of their ways.

No one is complaining about thief because they don’t have the ridiculous burst potential that mesmer does.

Doesn’t matter it takes no skill no matter what. That bs deserves to get nerfed, lets nerf F4 so that you can’t do it while you’re getting stunned and make decoy not a stun break so that maybe Mesmer will finally take skill.

Oh and plus why shouldn’t be able to stealth as a defensive measure…do you know how many times thieves do this….fight…stealth….fight…jump through ring to stealth… its crap you guys complained about PU so much but forgot about the bigger stealth picture as a defensive mechanic.

could tell you to kiss my kitten nier but I am sure it would fall on deaf ears…

i have a question, are you aware, that chaos line has two more grandmaster traits and did you use them, or would you use them inseatd of pu? if your answers are no, than you should admit, that pu is overperforming

and lets be realistic, pu nerf is just minor, it wont affect stealth burst, or stealth decaps

I have used CI, I prefer PU. Stealth nerf would actually hurt the class because like the thief it is a defensive in nature skill. Why should let stand there and make it easier for everyone else to burst us. If you do not want a Mesmer to stealth, learn to use reveals.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

atlrising.5134:

Heres why I say it was not needed, max stealth was 25s with torch 4, decoy and mass invis. We could cross the map from one side to another just like a thief (which no one is complaining about) and it would run out before we even got all the way across.

Most Mesmers dont even use all three, so our stealth is only around 14s total. It seems to me that everyone did not like it because when we stealthed you could not just instant burst us. It required you to put in more effort. I invite all my mesmer brothers and sisters to post here and cause a fuss. Make Anet see the error of their ways.

No one is complaining about thief because they don’t have the ridiculous burst potential that mesmer does.

Bull kitten, let one stealth up behind you and you still say that.

It’s totally necessary, and abit overdue really.

Just because it may not be the strongest pvp build doesn’t mean it’s not brokenly OP..

atlrising.5134:

Bull kitten, let one stealth up behind you and you still say that.

If you’re afraid of a Thief showing up behind you then you aren’t very good at this game

How about you mesmer haters actually play the class before you whine so much…I’ll provide the cheese tray for you

atlrising.5134:

Oh and plus why shouldn’t be able to stealth as a defensive measure…do you know how many times thieves do this….fight…stealth….fight…jump through ring to stealth… its crap you guys complained about PU so much but forgot about the bigger stealth picture as a defensive mechanic.

Because thieves can’t do damage while in stealth, while mesmer can.
(Mesmer can spawn clones/ phantasm without breaking stealth, hide in stealth and let clones/ phantasm do all the work)

One is like high risk high reward. One is like no risk high reward.

I don’t have any hate for Mesmer (it’s actually my second favorite profession in the game). Most of what they do is fine. PU deserved a nerf though, and it got one.

We have to use skills to produce those, if we hit you with that skill it nulls the stealth.

Honestly the nerf should have been 75% instead of 100%, 50% is going to kill the PU build completely. (By the way this post would not even have been made if the nerf was 75% instead of 50%).

by the way, the PU nerf, guts the only good build Mesmers have had in 2 years.

atlrising.5134:

We have to use skills to produce those, if we hit you with that skill it nulls the stealth.

Many skills do not require to hit target directly to spawn clones/ phantasm.

Best example being GS4 and Staff 2.

As a mesmer main, I am fine with it.
It basically means your stealth duration gets cut by 25% for PU build. Very acceptable. Currently the meta PU mesmer build doesn’t even need mass invis to survive. If you have trouble surviving, just take mass invis you will be fine. Yeah, you will lose a powerful moa or time warp. But I call that a fair tradeoff.

The PU build used to be taken by mesmers in WvW but not in PvP. And at this time, PU was 1s increased stealth, which is usually less than 50%.
So it won’t kill PU builds.

Thieves need stealth because all of their profession work around that. Mesmers don’t. Mesmers can live without PU and without stealth altogether. We have other defense mechanisms, we don’t rely on it for our damage…

dunno dude, every time I’ve ever used GS4 it didnt produce a clone unless it hit something.

atlrising.5134:

Bull kitten, let one stealth up behind you and you still say that.

So…do you want to know the actual numbers of a backstab against a light armored enemy?

After repeatedly using CnD and backstab on a light armor golem, the average came out to be 6.5k with a Marauder Amulet. Keep in mind also that there is a 4s Reveal period in which we cannot go back into stealth to stab you again. 6.5k is the average of our burst. Now tell me how that measures up against mesmer burst.

Not to mention…what kind of silly player would let a thief just sit behind them and repeatedly backstab?

Edit: I might add that this might be more than what a D/p thief might do because of the vulnerability caused by CnD.

dude its more, stealth, backstab…coupled with the venom which turns you to stone then your immob….yeah its 6.5k but think of all the damage you do while we are sitting there unable to fight back

I’ll give you an A for effort on trying to sell bull kitten though.

atlrising.5134:

I’ll give you an A for effort on trying to sell bull kitten though.

Funny, as that’s what I thought after reading your posts in this thread.

I’m asking for it to be moved from 100% to 75%, 50% is too much.

atlrising.5134:

dude its more, stealth, backstab…coupled with the venom which turns you to stone then your immob….yeah its 6.5k but think of all the damage you do while we are sitting there unable to fight back

One stunbreak or stability is able to solve all this "can’t fight back thing.

Also you can use blink or invulnerable to counter it too.

atlrising.5134:

dude its more, stealth, backstab…coupled with the venom which turns you to stone then your immob….yeah its 6.5k but think of all the damage you do while we are sitting there unable to fight back

Basilisk Venom is a 1.5-2s stun. It’s not like mesmers are without stunbreaker. From a quick look at metabattle, the meta PU mesmer in PvP runs Blink and Decoy. Blink is on a 30s CD and Decoy is on a 40s CD. Basilisk Venom is on a 40s CD I believe. With reaction time taken into account, suppose I backstab you for 6.5k damage, then proceed to begin my auto attack chain. The average human’s reaction time is .25s, so I would give you about .5s to react to getting stunned and reaching for your stunbreak. Both of your stunbreaks are less than or equal to the CD of Basilisk Venom. In that 0.5s window, I would be able to hit you with my first attack in my auto-chain, and maybe the second. By my testing, the first attack in my auto-chain Double-Strike deals about 550 damage per swing for a total of about 1100 damage. The next attack of the sequence dealt about 1700, so for the first two attacks in the auto-chain, the total damage is 2900 damage.

This means that for the effective duration of Basilisk Venom, I have dealt slightly over 10k damage to you. A significant amount fair enough, but nowhere near enough to kill anyone.

I will also point out that all of these numbers were critical hits, so this is the average of the absolute best cases. A non-crit backstab (which is likely to happen because we have ~60% crit chance) deals roughly 2400 damage. The non-crit auto attack deals roughly 650 damage total on the double swing, and roughly 900 damage on second attack. This adds up to a total of a rough average of 3950 damage in the worst cases.

This means that with our opening burst, we will never be able to kill anyone who has access to their stunbreak, much less a mesmer who has 2 with both on lower cooldown than our stun. Whether or not you believe me is not my concern. I am only providing the numbers.

forget it, the mesmer hate is almost as toxic as the thief scare from 2013

Mesmer should not have better stealth abilities than Thief (let alone any at all because it makes no sense to me), it already has the clones and billions of conditions…

atlrising.5134:

forget it, the mesmer hate is almost as toxic as the thief scare from 2013

I don’t hate thief at all actually.

They have clear counters, and only the very skillful ones show any form of threat. (PU Mesmer is good on any skill level, even the bad ones)

Heres the thing, I created this post expecting my mesmer brothers to come out and go nope. What do I get instead a bunch of people who dont play the profession who want to complain because the class is not an easy kill no more.

atlrising.5134:

Heres the thing, I created this post expecting my mesmer brothers to come out and go nope. What do I get instead a bunch of people who dont play the profession who want to complain because the class is not an easy kill no more.

You’re the one who started the complaint lol….
We’re actually just accepting the changes, you’re the complainer here actually.

atlrising.5134:

Heres the thing, I created this post expecting my mesmer brothers to come out and go nope. What do I get instead a bunch of people who dont play the profession who want to complain because the class is not an easy kill no more.

All you are doing is making the Mesmer community look bad. They have a pretty darn good reputation, maybe discuss this with them instead of telling everyone that you need to be able to Stealth all the way across maps.

atlrising.5134:

by the way, the PU nerf, guts the only good build Mesmers have had in 2 years.

This is wrong.

PU is great and all. But the loss of PU wont kill the class or it’s builds, considering also that the mesmer has more viable builds than other classes currently.

PU is a crutch. A very good crutch.

Secondly-
The pledge is bugged.
For people who haven’t realized this or just don’t know.
The pledge ( torch trait in illusions) is giving x3 ( or maybe its x2 I cant remember) the recharge it’s supposed to. It’s bugged.
Which leads to a mesmer being able to stealth more often.

Lastly
More classes are getting AoE reveal
Let’s see how the meta shift’s with those new specs factored in.

edit: just read the changes. Pu nerf will be meh

This was the most needed Nerf ingame yet… any1 but a Mesmer sees that.

Ravezaar.4951:

This was the most needed Nerf ingame yet… any1 but a Mesmer sees that.

No..
Even mesmer’s agree this is fine.

Solori.6025:

mesmer has more viable builds than other classes currently.

This has to be a joke, right?

god TY Finally
This cancer PU mes in WvW get a nerf!
Finally

Ah @ pvp side.. i dont know.. it was a wvw problem not a pvp.

People may or may not realise that before June 23rd PU only added 1s of extra stealth onto skills. It got an absolutely massive buff which was way to much.

The prestige and decoy 3s to 4s became 6s. 300% the extra stealth.
Mass Invisibility went from 5s to 6s became 10s. 500% the extra stealth

The only one who is back where it was is veil now. The others are still slightly stronger than before the patch. If you didnt see this nerf coming a mile away im very surprised. Even the devs said for the good of the game pretty much.

as a mesmer i really hoped they nerf PU and I am glad they are doing it because that build kittened up other choices for pvp builds for mesmers because PU mesmer could simply rekt you but not because of skills……but because of stealth burst which takes no skill tbh.

PU was good at 100%

the 50% nerf was unjust, stupid, idiotic, ridiculous, outrageous.

The preview PU nerf was absolutely 100 percent justified. In my opinion it should actually have been removed/changed completely.

At the moment mesmers and thieves are WAY too similar. They both do decent damage. They both stealth alot. They both have team utility (stealth res and portal). Thief should have good burst damage, stealth, chase-down potential, like it has. Not mesmer, like it is now. Mesmer should be about amazing damage, great team utility, but with very low survivability as a trade-off. The survivability from mesmer should stem from good positioning and confusion (not the condition), like it did in the past. At the moment, there is too little differentiation of thief and mesmer in the zerker role. This is mainly because mesmer doesn’t gain enough from the illusions traitline (about damage), and gains TOO much from the domination, duelling, chaos traitlines in combination.

This change needed to happen. PU was way too good in its current state and was overshadowing other GMs. You can complain about having lack of survival when you can’t blink out leaving clones, lose invul/blurred/multiple CCs spells and will have to go in melee 90% of the time to do dmg (so like thieves).

Even thieves that are supposed to be master of stealth don’t have traits increasing stealth by 100%, they have indeed trait that increases stealth by 1 sec but only granted by stealth spells like refuge, his, blinding powder; combo stealth like bp+ hs don’t fall into that cathegory.

Also, as stated above pledge is bugged soooooo…..

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

PU was good at 100%

the 50% nerf was unjust, stupid, idiotic, ridiculous, outrageous.

funniest post ever seen

My main is mesmer and I’m happy with this nerf. Maybe now rookie mesmers start manage thier stealths not just spam them. What is more IMO Inspiration line is better for pvp anyway(especialy with burning everywhere).

Quadox.7834:

At the moment mesmers and thieves are WAY too similar.

no, mesmers have illusions, thieves do not. NOT similar.

They both do decent damage.

all professions can do decent damage if they trait / sPvP amulet for it.

They both stealth alot.

no. thieves have more access to stealth than mesmers.
thief can black power + heart seeker anytime for on demand stealth with virtually no recharge time. mesmers can NOT do that.

They both have team utility (stealth res and portal).

shadow refuge provides stealth for much longer, has a much shorter recharge time.

Thief should have good burst damage, stealth, chase-down potential, like it has.

thief always have that. what the kitten are you talking about?

Not mesmer, like it is now.

and who the kitten are you to dictate that? every profession should be able to have good burst damage if they trait / sPvP amulet for it.

Mesmer should be about amazing damage, great team utility, but with very low survivability as a trade-off.

you piece of kitten kitten. no profession should have low survivability. low survivability comes from choosing sPvP amulets without toughness vitality, not by gutting core profession traits.

The survivability from mesmer should stem from good positioning and confusion (not the condition), like it did in the past.

confusion, sure thing, if you make it such that all clones also have all the prepared mantras and signets that the real mesmer also have.

you said it yourself.
confusion.

how the kitten can the real mesmer confuse opponents if the clones do not have the same prepared mantras and un-activated signets?

fix that, then we can talk confusing players.

PU was not nerfed enough. Needs to go back to +1 sec. If it remains 50% protection needs to be removed from the boons applied

atlrising.5134:

Heres why I say it was not needed, max stealth was 25s with torch 4, decoy and mass invis.

Seriously.. 25s of stealth with huge Bursts in between.. .. I made a Mesmer. This exact build made me beat mains who had 1200+ hours worth of PvP. Please…

We could cross the map from one side to another just like a thief (which no one is complaining about) and it would run out before we even got all the way across.

Just… NO

If a Mesmer could roam quicker or better than a Thief.. .. then Mesmer would be utilized in EVERY team. Mesmer roamer skills aren’t as good as a Thief.

Mesmer’s “team roaming skills” isn’t even a big deal in ESL and Mesmers utilizes that aspect a lot more than your average casuals.

atlrising.5134:

Most Mesmers dont even use all three, so our stealth is only around 14s total. It seems to me that everyone did not like it because when we stealthed you could not just instant burst us. It required you to put in more effort. I invite all my mesmer brothers and sisters to post here and cause a fuss. Make Anet see the error of their ways.

It seems to me that people abused the stealthness of the Mesmer all too often.
Stealth
Bursts + auto attack
Stealths
stun lock/burst
stealth
Bursts
…rinse and repeat.

If stealth is being underutilized because they’re using 14s out of 25s of it, then force the casuals to utilize ALL the stealths….

I remember a time when a Mesmer actually took skill to be good. If I can use a Mesmer PU build and be “good” then something needs to be changed.

atlrising.5134:

We have to use skills to produce those, if we hit you with that skill it nulls the stealth.

GEeeeezus, skill is NOT an excuse for an OP mechanic.

Do you even UNDERSTAND>?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Quadox.7834:

At the moment mesmers and thieves are WAY too similar.

no, mesmers have illusions, thieves do not. NOT similar.

They both do decent damage.

all professions can do decent damage if they trait / sPvP amulet for it.

They both stealth alot.

no. thieves have more access to stealth than mesmers.
thief can black power + heart seeker anytime for on demand stealth with virtually no recharge time. mesmers can NOT do that.

They both have team utility (stealth res and portal).

shadow refuge provides stealth for much longer, has a much shorter recharge time.

Thief should have good burst damage, stealth, chase-down potential, like it has.

thief always have that. what the kitten are you talking about?

Not mesmer, like it is now.

and who the kitten are you to dictate that? every profession should be able to have good burst damage if they trait / sPvP amulet for it.

Mesmer should be about amazing damage, great team utility, but with very low survivability as a trade-off.

you piece of kitten kitten. no profession should have low survivability. low survivability comes from choosing sPvP amulets without toughness vitality, not by gutting core profession traits.

The survivability from mesmer should stem from good positioning and confusion (not the condition), like it did in the past.

confusion, sure thing, if you make it such that all clones also have all the prepared mantras and signets that the real mesmer also have.

you said it yourself.
confusion.

how the kitten can the real mesmer confuse opponents if the clones do not have the same prepared mantras and un-activated signets?

fix that, then we can talk confusing players.

Ill post this as a placeholder and edit it later. Almost none of what you say has any point in response to my stance, I’ll explain later. I don’t think you explained your stance by the way? I guess you want to keep the 100% PU?

In the meanwhile, stop swearing and calling me “A piece of XX” to prove a point, it doesn’t work.