Guild Wars 2

Hey mates,

here some fun facts about PvP ( you know, the part of the game having the largest growth )

ToL 1 : http://mp.challonge.com/fr/ToLEU (64 teams in EU)
ToL 2 : https://battlefy.com/mistpedia/tournament-of-legends-2/53bd76c5f7cbde1d090f5160/participants (128 teams in EU)
ToL 3 : http://challonge.com/fr/tournaments?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=ToL3 (108 teams in EU)
ToL 4 : https://battlefy.com/academy-gaming/eu-tournament-of-legends-4/57f4145e067ba3250ce2863c/participants (26 in EU (the tournament is on Sunday).

So to resume :
- 2013 = 64 teams
- 2014 = 128 teams
- 2015 = 108 teams
- 2016 = 26 teams

And for the season 5 Anet killed premade, yeah they must tag in unranked so it’s a kill.

When some top players said that SoloQ will bring more competition we can see it’s not totally true.

We need a leaderboard with inGame access asap, the pvp community is dying, need motivation to form a team.

What do you think about that ?

Cheers.

I think you misunderstand the word “competition.” Using teams against non teams does not qualify as competition. Some words that come to mind are: farming, exploiting and trolling.

A solo que will bring things closer to a true competition. By definition a game is competitive when the sides are closely matched and each must play hard if they want to win.

Motivation to form a team was tried. The game even offers a chance to join your teammates after a match. Many people, like myself, don’t wish to play on teams.

What we need is motivation to play PvP.

Sadly, ANET offered a legendary backpack as motivation. Then they made it too hard to get. This soured quite a few PvE players who came to try for the prize. It won’t be easy to lure those players back.

A leader board would probably be productive.

Thx for your feedback,

but the legendary backpack as a pvp player…. how to say it, i don’t care ^^

we need some unique pvp stuff, some unique pvp title hard to get, some Ingame disctinction etc….

“Using teams against non teams does not qualify as competition. " yeah agree but it’s anet fault, don’t punish teams, put 2 queues as before (solo/team) .

Anet have to force people to play in a team, watch the result in the TOL participation. People need to have a motivation to play as a premade, it’s the final goal of this game no ? wts is not soloQ tournament.

It feels bad to be vindicated.

Syrius Gorn.5384:

we need some unique pvp stuff, some unique pvp title hard to get, some Ingame disctinction etc….

I think they should make some new titles, I’m specifically thinking of a title for earning all the class Champion titles like Champion Paragon, Champion Reaper and so on. “Master of the Mists” or something.

1. a lot of players that usually play solo (myself including) form teams just for tourneys like this but don’t actually use ranked for team queue
2. you do realize lot of teams usually sign up like on last second lol?

2. you really think that 100+teams will sign up on the last minute ? generally it’s the top team who does this. But they are already in, most of them.

Syrius Gorn.5384:

2. you really think that 100+teams will sign up on the last minute ? generally it’s the top team who does this. But they are already in, most of them.

you have never done AG, have you lol?

I have to agree.

A majority of the top players solo que as it is. And those days of facing a ESL premade is fun if you werent thinking about losing those PiPs.

Also i got into build diversity with Olrun on a thread that was deleted but seriously HOT killed peoples passion for this game.

I played in a few of the AG tournaments ( i want to say around 30-38) and the team i was on didnt make it into 2-3 of them because it was full. So twice i entered as a FA.

Anet can make the changes that should of already done which is add a real leader board, add real rewards to different levels, quit trying to cater to the casual and if they do all this it wont change anything.

Everyone looks at PvP the same now, its spammy and thoughtless. Game play was slower in in matches for core GW2 but you had to think. You had to time your burst, we literally had someone post a ESL tournament of fight of a 1 vs 1 between 2 revs who didnt hit each other because they used the exact same combination of skills.

Thats what i mean by thoughtless, before HOT you were looking at what the enemy was doing. Now with all the effects, clutter and lets just call it what it is which is junk being thrown around. People dont want to spend time grouping up for that.

ESL/Leagues brought in money and it was suppose to bring in more groups. It didnt bring any new blood. Now Anet gets rid of team que because some players thinks that why they cant win which is fine but once this next season starts.

Ill be the first to say it, i think this upcoming season will break the camels back. Simply put HOT specs are not fun and it shows across the board.

26 teams Anet, i remember getting those emials about how you guys had to expand tournaments because of how many teams entered. Now this game cant even get people to enter tournaments for fun.

Getting 26 teams in EU alone is a huge success in my opinion! It shows that many people really are interested in playing competitively. Remember that each team has 5 players so that means that there are 130 players who are interested in competitive play which is a massive amount. This gives me a really good feeling that there will be more competition for next year’s pro events which is a good thing because it will be great to see players I regularly play against in ranked in EU in pro league and other events.

To be honest I didn’t even expect 16 teams to sign up in each region so this ToL has gone above what I expected it to and I can’t wait to watch the streams tomorrow and on Sunday. It should be amazing.

suffish.4150:

Getting 26 teams in EU alone is a huge success in my opinion! It shows that many people really are interested in playing competitively. Remember that each team has 5 players so that means that there are 130 players who are interested in competitive play which is a massive amount. This gives me a really good feeling that there will be more competition for next year’s pro events which is a good thing because it will be great to see players I regularly play against in ranked in EU in pro league and other events.

To be honest I didn’t even expect 16 teams to sign up in each region so this ToL has gone above what I expected it to and I can’t wait to watch the streams tomorrow and on Sunday. It should be amazing.

What really?

The past 2 tournaments were getting over 100+ teams and now it is 26?

Ill be honest i went and checked just now what the NA side looked like and 2 things stood out.

1- Very few ESL teams were in there.
You had Never Lucky, PZ who seem to have 2 subs maybe? and then scape goats who has 2-3 ESL players if im mistaken which isnt a great thing for the community seeing its top teams not really join in the madness.

2- OE subbing for fivegauge?
I wasnt gonna watch but i will for this, what if they dominate? What if they crash and burn with OE back? My goodness the drama that could come from that ( evil laugh inserted)

But honestly only 20 teams for NA? Ag use to get 10 full teams with 2 free agents and the ESL scene had there 10 or so teams. Not good, not good at all.

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

Getting 26 teams in EU alone is a huge success in my opinion! It shows that many people really are interested in playing competitively. Remember that each team has 5 players so that means that there are 130 players who are interested in competitive play which is a massive amount. This gives me a really good feeling that there will be more competition for next year’s pro events which is a good thing because it will be great to see players I regularly play against in ranked in EU in pro league and other events.

To be honest I didn’t even expect 16 teams to sign up in each region so this ToL has gone above what I expected it to and I can’t wait to watch the streams tomorrow and on Sunday. It should be amazing.

What really?

The past 2 tournaments were getting over 100+ teams and now it is 26?

Ill be honest i went and checked just now what the NA side looked like and 2 things stood out.

1- Very few ESL teams were in there.
You had Never Lucky, PZ who seem to have 2 subs maybe? and then scape goats who has 2-3 ESL players if im mistaken which isnt a great thing for the community seeing its top teams not really join in the madness.

2- OE subbing for fivegauge?
I wasnt gonna watch but i will for this, what if they dominate? What if they crash and burn with OE back? My goodness the drama that could come from that ( evil laugh inserted)

But honestly only 20 teams for NA? Ag use to get 10 full teams with 2 free agents and the ESL scene had there 10 or so teams. Not good, not good at all.

To be honest it doesn’t matter what the numbers were years ago, I am just saying it is more than I expected for now, which is a great thing.

PZ does not have 2 subs, that is their new roster because zoose and kaypud left.

OE is not subbing, chaith is no longer is abjured and zoose is the new member on abjured, I don’t know why it does not say this on the ToL website but what I say is correct.

No matter what Anet does or what they add, there will simply be a spike in population for a short time and then a drop.
When a major tournament is introduced, there is always huge participation so in 2013/2014, ToL was fresh, ESL 5v5s were booming etc but as time goes on, players will get bored and not feel the need to participate in ANOTHER ToL with the same rewards.

If anet wants to make ToL successful, they need to do it every year and make the rewards unique to each year. This is so that even the people who win ToL 1 will want to play in ToL5 when they see the rewards. A bit like the Eve Online Tournaments where they give out special issue ships for that tournament alone.

But anyway, probably just talking to the wind again. Arenanet does what arenanet does.

When ppl can win a ’’Lama’’ by signing up and playing one game (regadles of win or loose) ….128 teams will be created
And the same amount will join next time , if they must win 1 game :P

When the rewards are based on the top 8 what happens ….?…

There probably is more to it, but the biggest factor is probably that people can get Mini Llamas in other ways, now. Also, while Zeromis is permanently replacing Zoose (since he moved to PZ), Supcutie is only temporarily replacing Kaypud (who will be returning for the next real money event). There’s been movement on all of the NA teams, though. Abjured is 3/5, PZ is 3/5, and NL is 2/5.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

There probably is more to it, but the biggest factor is probably that people can get Mini Llamas in other ways, now. Also, while Zeromis is permanently replacing Zoose (since he moved to PZ), Supcutie is only temporarily replacing Kaypud (who will be returning for the next real money event). There’s been movement on all of the NA teams, though. Abjured is 3/5, PZ is 3/5, and NL is 2/5.

If i may,

Why do people move around so much?

Is it to put themselves in better positions? Obviously there might be some frustration with a group after a period of time. But in all 4 seasons there have been massive team swaps from EU and NA. Just wondering if there was real life issues or more less individual decisions?

suffish.4150:

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

Getting 26 teams in EU alone is a huge success in my opinion! It shows that many people really are interested in playing competitively. Remember that each team has 5 players so that means that there are 130 players who are interested in competitive play which is a massive amount. This gives me a really good feeling that there will be more competition for next year’s pro events which is a good thing because it will be great to see players I regularly play against in ranked in EU in pro league and other events.

To be honest I didn’t even expect 16 teams to sign up in each region so this ToL has gone above what I expected it to and I can’t wait to watch the streams tomorrow and on Sunday. It should be amazing.

What really?

The past 2 tournaments were getting over 100+ teams and now it is 26?

Ill be honest i went and checked just now what the NA side looked like and 2 things stood out.

1- Very few ESL teams were in there.
You had Never Lucky, PZ who seem to have 2 subs maybe? and then scape goats who has 2-3 ESL players if im mistaken which isnt a great thing for the community seeing its top teams not really join in the madness.

2- OE subbing for fivegauge?
I wasnt gonna watch but i will for this, what if they dominate? What if they crash and burn with OE back? My goodness the drama that could come from that ( evil laugh inserted)

But honestly only 20 teams for NA? Ag use to get 10 full teams with 2 free agents and the ESL scene had there 10 or so teams. Not good, not good at all.

To be honest it doesn’t matter what the numbers were years ago, I am just saying it is more than I expected for now, which is a great thing.

PZ does not have 2 subs, that is their new roster because zoose and kaypud left.

OE is not subbing, chaith is no longer is abjured and zoose is the new member on abjured, I don’t know why it does not say this on the ToL website but what I say is correct.

Alright alright its your feeling about it and i cant argue it. Should be good games though.

Abjured was not happy with Chaith’s performance in the past two or three events, so they replaced him with Zoose from Team PZ. Kaypud is taking a break until the next real money event. I think I heard Phantaram has family in town over this weekend, so kitten is subbing for him. I don’t know if you know what happened to the NL roster between S2 and WQ, but two of our members left for FF and the other two didn’t want to play without Stalagta. Our roster wasn’t ideal from the start and fell apart due to multiple reasons.

Generally, teams won’t swap around much if they’re doing well. The Abjured’s roster has been consistent for over a year, since just after the first WTS. PZ formed for Pro League Season 1, and the only roster change they’ve made before now was replacing Marvin with Paul due to performance. People aren’t as committed on weaker teams, so it’s a constant rotation of new players. Never Lucky is a prime example of that.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Abjured was not happy with Chaith’s performance in the past two or three events, so they replaced him with Zoose from Team PZ. Kaypud is taking a break until the next real money event. I think I heard Phantaram has family in town over this weekend, so kitten is subbing for him. I don’t know if you know what happened to the NL roster between S2 and WQ, but two of our members left for FF and the other two didn’t want to play without Stalagta. Our roster wasn’t ideal from the start and fell apart due to multiple reasons.

Generally, teams won’t swap around much if they’re doing well. The Abjured’s roster has been consistent for over a year, since just after the first WTS. PZ formed for Pro League Season 1, and the only roster change they’ve made before now was replacing Marvin with Paul due to performance. People aren’t as committed on weaker teams, so it’s a constant rotation of new players. Never Lucky is a prime example of that.

Thank you for the info

Anyone saying solo and duo is a bad idea for ranked clearly wasnt playing when the game was at its most competitive, when solo queue was a thing

Rickster.8752:

Anyone saying solo and duo is a bad idea for ranked clearly wasnt playing when the game was at its most competitive, when solo queue was a thing

That argument only holds if correlation proves causation which it doesn’t.

It was 41 / 64 Teams Registered in EU tho. Big reason why there was so many teams in past was to get the llama which wasn’t obtainable like it is now for easy tickets:)

Crinn.7864:

Rickster.8752:

Anyone saying solo and duo is a bad idea for ranked clearly wasnt playing when the game was at its most competitive, when solo queue was a thing

That argument only holds if correlation proves causation which it doesn’t.

Yeh but there is logic behind it. When solo queue was around it was a proving ground for people. Many solo players looked at players in teams and knew they were better or as good. So they went and proved it in solo queue. And it was factually proven who was the best by who had the best mmr and was highest on the leaderboards.

These players could then move into teams if they wished.

Since the removal of solo queue there is no way for proving yourself or for practising your individual skills. Duelling is the only thing left but this is match up dependent and duelling is only a tiny part of being a good pvper, awareness is everything.

So when solo queue came out, for those initial 3 months i knew i was either the best player in the game or very close to it. I proved that in solo queue. Lets say there is someone around now who believes the same. How can they prove themselves? There is no way.

Ithilwen.1529:

I think you misunderstand the word “competition.” Using teams against non teams does not qualify as competition. Some words that come to mind are: farming, exploiting and trolling.

A solo que will bring things closer to a true competition. By definition a game is competitive when the sides are closely matched and each must play hard if they want to win.

Motivation to form a team was tried. The game even offers a chance to join your teammates after a match. Many people, like myself, don’t wish to play on teams.

What we need is motivation to play PvP.

Sadly, ANET offered a legendary backpack as motivation. Then they made it too hard to get. This soured quite a few PvE players who came to try for the prize. It won’t be easy to lure those players back.

A leader board would probably be productive.

AHHHHHH!!

Seriously?! I can’t believe this is your response. A leader board WILL be productive. Eliminating team queue completely in ranked was a huge mistake. I support solo queue as a separate option, but not the only option.

I feel that you are taking this solo queue experiment as a victory for your cause. I hope you will be happy when there’s only 20 people playing pvp, because at least they’ll be playing it by what you deem fair…

#notrophiesforlastplace!

I agree with bringing back the leaderboards. Maintaining and improving my rank was my primary incentive for being in ranked and matchmaking seemed more accurate during that time.

Syrius Gorn.5384:

What do you think about that ?

The easy fix is to delete stuff, right?

So, I will let you choose what we should DELETE to get a proper competitive scene back.

Jourdelune.7456:

choose what we should DELETE to get a proper competitive scene back.

Delete Heart of Thorns

community killed premade not anet. Whether pvp has premade or not isnt what is going to determine how popular pvp is. Yea there might be some people who just play pvp when they get 4 or 5 of their friends together for a few games. I think most people just generally have a problem with the system.

Population is always at its highest whenever there is a major system change. April feature pack, I think anet reported like a 50% population increase during that time.

After a while things died down then they released HoT specs which affected pvp then league system. People played that for awhile for the wings, didnt like it too much for more or less the same reasons, left and now we are getting a new system.

Population will go up again until we find something else fundamentally wrong with the new system.

They would have solved a lot of their problems by showing us everyone’s MMR during a match. I want to see how high or low my MMR is compared with my teammates and opponents. I want to see it go up or down after a game. I also want to see a system based more on individual performance.

When people can easily see each of their actions have good and bad consequences and are rewarded and punished accordingly in real time they will become more competitive, especially if there is a solid reward system.

Ragion.2831:

community killed premade not anet. Whether pvp has premade or not isnt what is going to determine how popular pvp is. Yea there might be some people who just play pvp when they get 4 or 5 of their friends together for a few games. I think most people just generally have a problem with the system.

Population is always at its highest whenever there is a major system change. April feature pack, I think anet reported like a 50% population increase during that time.

After a while things died down then they released HoT specs which affected pvp then league system. People played that for awhile for the wings, didnt like it too much for more or less the same reasons, left and now we are getting a new system.

Population will go up again until we find something else fundamentally wrong with the new system.

They would have solved a lot of their problems by showing us everyone’s MMR during a match. I want to see how high or low my MMR is compared with my teammates and opponents. I want to see it go up or down after a game. I also want to see a system based more on individual performance.

When people can easily see each of their actions have good and bad consequences and are rewarded and punished accordingly in real time they will become more competitive, especially if there is a solid reward system.

I have to disagree.

Pre Hot and the d/d ele craze. You can go back to storms AG line up and see full teams.

10 full premades with 2 FA teams. The d/d took some heat off of this when every team was literally 4 eles with maybe a thief.

I for one and neither did my guild mates play for the mini llama but for the enjoyment of a actual tournament we could play together on the week end being we could not make the AG games.

Hot came out and build diversity was destroyed. I saw many of the people i PvP with leave though the list of them has gotten smaller and smaller.

The first wave was the patch that made PvP casual for PvP. The removal of 8 vs 8 and forcing people to play ranked added to this.

Next the OP of d/d ele, its still unreal to me how long they let that run. Burst burn guardian everyone understood but the d/d ele was unreal.

Then we get to HOT where season after season it was horrible. Season 1 the bunker meta and the terrible WvW map. This was clearly a expansion for PvE. Rifle builds were nerfed on warrior because of gunflame being spam in WvW. Killing rows of people and smashing the F1 button over and over. Mesmer wells also a huge problem for WvW.

Then you add the spam they added with thief either on 3 d/d or 5 staff with the DH of traps and unblockable pulls and knock backs.

This is not the GW2 community at all, of course people will grow tired and look for something new but they will stay if certain things are met.

Such as a good meta-good reward system-skill based leagues ( so everyone knows where they are)(or leader boards) and multiple ways to play such as a solo que AND team que.

Anet brought nothing to the table for the community, they brought ESL but it struggled season 1 which was evident when a team quit after a miscommunication on the open.

All of this can not be blamed on the community but on Anet.

You might be right since i dont have numbers or havent been big on joining coordinated teams. But from my experience im fairly certain that majority of pvp players solo or duo q. There are four major complaints about pvp

Matchmaking system – many people felt that they were put on vastly weaker teams because of how mmr worked. Apparently this was proven

Build diversity -not a lot of builds and too many things set in stone, people got bored and moved on

Premades – The community overwhelmingly hates premades, this was shown during the poll. If the community hates premades i dont see how the population would drop because of the removal of premades.

League grind – Honestly if not for the exclusive legendary wings most wont have bothered with pvp, Overwatch also had a league system similar to gw2 Blizzard got the exact same complaint of it being grindy and they changed it, Anetgot the exact same complaint and are finally changing it.

3 of 4 of the complaints have to do with the pvp system, so i think we can assume the population issue is mostly to do with that.

I can agree with that.

For debating purposes i would like to argue the premade point. Many players have played solo/duo que from the ESL in the leagues. Of course there were times ESL teams were in ranked but other then the ESL teams who has a legit complaint?

For instance there was a thread from a necro complaining about his team mates. Everyone noticed Caed a thief was on the other team. He is a ESL level thief and he crushed the necro he faced in a 1 vs 1 at far in seconds and no one blamed him for that.

Ive seen these complaint threads over the seasons and the people writing the posts dont even know the people they are facing. Another thread was complaining about MM when the other team had tarcis and i believe marvin.

For me Leader Boards would of fixed this so fast, everyone truly believes they are at a legit level of PvP. Bringing down peoples egos a tiny bit would be nice.

Another thread topic right now in the 1st page has a person complaining about his team wiping at mid. He said he has 700 games played and shouldnt have to play with noobs when some of us have thousands of games played.

Whether or not im right or wrong on premades Anet wouldnt have had to make such a huge change in ranked had they done the necessary things to make leagues legit.

So no matter how we want to put it, Anet screwed up PvP Leagues.

This game, quite frankly, besides the “Legendary” logo next to your name, provides absolutely no incentive to tPvP.

There is a very small minority, which is highly exclusive, that participates in more-or-less bragging rights matches or provides one looking to improve with the tips and tricks to get better, while the majority of players are only PvPing for the achievements/wings.

I’m probably just burnt out from this game’s pvp… but I hate it.

PvE also doesnt provide an incentive to PvE since no more levels and gear no longer matters once you get to level 80 unless you are in it for the legendaries that dont do much other than sparkle and the story (but frankly, ive heard better writing)

WvW i havent set foot in for probably at least a year by now and I hear its not so good either. So what do we have left? :S

At least we are getting Lost Ark online soon and the footage ive seen are godly.

You can say what you want about NA but they do have me and I am currently the best individual player in combat atm.

As a roamer (WvW player) I can add that I totally did not care about PvP since it was not a team death match battle and only a capture the point battle (promoting bunker builds over high risk builds)…

BUT! I did play PvP when the PvP ‘’legendary icon reward’’ was shown in WvW (I know, it is a minor thing. yet it made me come into PvP with my roaming build and kick the kitten of those bunker builds that had no idea how to fight a roamer).

In the end, they removed the PvP ‘’legendary icon’’ from showing in WvW, so I left. A good bunch of my roamers friend also left PvP on that day since as a WvW player, PvP had no more incentive (we prefer WvW fights, yet we would PvP in the first 2-3 weeks of a season in order to get our PvP icon).

I know this doesn’t account to THAT BIG of a difference in term of population, but I would say it was probably a good part of the PvP population surge since a WvW player already know how to PvP (for myself, I had to coordinate with teamates by letting them know I was not on a bunker build, thus the bunkering job was usually done by them). On the contrary, the PvE population surge was probably important by itself, yet it was probably lower when it came down to the ’’competitive matches (diamond and legendary) since I think WvW players were not afraid to compete in a PvP scenario since they are already used with fighting other players while a PvE player probably had a much harder time getting into the competitive scene (generalization here, some PvE folks are probably solid PvP players).

Anyway, this is just my little addition to this conversation. Sorry for the long post ^^

Syrius Gorn.5384:

need motivation to form a team.

Even if you have the motivation to form a team like me, the low pvp population of this game completely blocks any attempt to do so. It is literally impossible to find players on a competitive level. There is no ingame incentive to compete so people won´t learn to compete cause talented players never get in touch with pvp.

With this in mind feel free to recommend your friends or yourself to me if you think they are top players who are capable of competing at the highest level to aim for #1 of pro league equivalent tournaments. Especially looking for revenant and mesmer.

Blackjack it’s not just a Pro League question, all people who form teams don’t want / can’t going in pro league, they just want to play with friends,mates on a vocal all day long.

and you have the answer, you said there is no ingame incentive to compete, it’s exactly what i say in my post.

If you have this, you will have news players at each skill lvl.