Guild Wars 2

Ignoring all of the other “issues” with Ranked PvP (arguments about the MMR, etc.), a big fix for Ranked PvP would be to disincentivize it. The only incentives for Ranked PvP should really be the rating you earn – and maybe a title. The only exclusive rewards earned from Ranked PvP should be items useful to, usable by/in, or centric to PvP. Why? A significant issue (problem) with Ranked PvP is that there are players, who would otherwise never played Ranked PvP, that queue up for Ranked solely because of/to grind the rewards offered via playing Ranked (ascended armor, minis, etc.)

Because of the PvE rewards earned via Ranked, we do have players that only play Ranked because they feel they must or want grind out and earn this new armor, or a back piece, or a mini, etc. They aren’t queuing for Ranked because of their love for PvP or the esteem they get from their rating – they’re only queuing to farm the latest PvE items. These are often the same players that really don’t care if they win or lose; or how their skill affects their team; or even if they idle through or manipulate a match. We need to remove these incentives – the rewards – from Ranked PvP to Unranked or All PvP.

The League Rewards are now only, really a limited-time rewards track. They don’t really need to be attached to Ranked anymore. They could be an achievement category completed in Ranked OR Unranked; or even a festival reward track. This would help alleviate the “playerbase” issues in Ranked PvP; disincentivize Ranked for players that would otherwise not queue for it.

Bandlero.6312:

Ignoring all of the other “issues” with Ranked PvP (arguments about the MMR, etc.), a big fix for Ranked PvP would be to disincentivize it. The only incentives for Ranked PvP should really be the rating you earn – and maybe a title. The only exclusive rewards earned from Ranked PvP should be items useful to, usable by/in, or centric to PvP. Why? A significant issue (problem) with Ranked PvP is that there are players, who would otherwise never played Ranked PvP, that queue up for Ranked solely because of/to grind the rewards offered via playing Ranked (ascended armor, minis, etc.)

Because of the PvE rewards earned via Ranked, we do have players that only play Ranked because they feel they must or want grind out and earn this new armor, or a back piece, or a mini, etc. They aren’t queuing for Ranked because of their love for PvP or the esteem they get from their rating – they’re only queuing to farm the latest PvE items. These are often the same players that really don’t care if they win or lose; or how their skill affects their team; or even if they idle through or manipulate a match. We need to remove these incentives – the rewards – from Ranked PvP to Unranked or All PvP.

The League Rewards are now only, really a limited-time rewards track. They don’t really need to be attached to Ranked anymore. They could be an achievement category completed in Ranked OR Unranked; or even a festival reward track. This would help alleviate the “playerbase” issues in Ranked PvP; disincentivize Ranked for players that would otherwise not queue for it.

Or maybe just don’t let people lose to get rewards. Whoever’s idea it was to reward losing needs a reality check and to never touch PvP rewards again.

They could just restrict PvE rewards to unranked. Either way, it’s not fun playing with or against PvEers. So if they want PvEers in PvP, they need to stay out of ranked till they’re ready.

IMO, there is no way to make the system perfect. Simply because each and everyone of us have different priorities.

The new MMR & reward system was put in place precisely to get more players to participate in PvP.

And this was due to 4 PvP Seasons worth of complaining that queue times were too long.

Disincentivice it and you will see a drop in players (PvErs) in PvP. Then you will be slapped with longer queue durations again.

I hope ya’ll can see how this is an endless cycle in the forums.

Well you could always charge 10g per match.

That should do the trick

How to fix ranked?
Reduce the player population by 80% of course! That will surely fix the matchmaking issue!
Flawless logic you have here /s

Wait wait wait

So does anyone else think people writing these threads to a wrong turn on the road to sanity and then asked the Joker for directions?

To spell it out, after the disaster of HoT which saw many people leave all game types you’re complaining at people trying out this game type and sticking around at least till Byzantium? Possibly longer as the backpack needs 180 total games played?

If you can’t get away from the PvE players in ranking then that is where you belong.

I think 1 possible quick solution is to remove in first place win 1 game with x and y daily then maybe raise the rank required to play ranked, Of sure is good to see new ppl play pvp , what’s is wrong is ppl that don’t like pvp and they don’t want to play it , but they do cos achievement and reward , i don’t think is a great goal have a lot of ppl in pvp where the majority don’t even like it….

I don’t think anyone is truly against attracting new players, pve or otherwise. The issue at hand is the skill/knowledge of players entering Ranked arena.

For most who genuinely desire competition, gold, armor, dyes, backpieces is inconsequential. More important is their rank and amount of wins.

I’m all for more players in pvp, but I would also like see a few less numpties in ranked matches.

This is the same mentality from MOBAs. People are using the PvEr’s as a scapegoat.
Just think for a second, if the pvers are really bad, and you as a pvper are really better, wouldnt after like a week of pvp matchs you would be at high gold at least and the pvers on bronze so you would never play together?
So maybe you are the same skill level of a pvers and just think you are better because well you play a lot of pvp how could a filthy pvers be on the sameevel as you right?
And before someone say the pvers are always on your team remember the other team has the same pvers believe it or not.

I don’t know how matchmaking works in GW2, if there is even some sort of selection.

But I imagine you could have people simply select what they’re PvPing for, farm or rating and then have a selective matchmaking that keeps them seperated as much as possible.

To fix Ranked you gotta remove it from the game , scrap it alltogether . Team based games with random players never succeed or have any fun factor in them.

It’s a gamble of 50-50% or more if ur unlucky to win or lose due to n00bs.

OnizukaBR.8537:

This is the same mentality from MOBAs. People are using the PvEr’s as a scapegoat.
Just think for a second, if the pvers are really bad, and you as a pvper are really better, wouldnt after like a week of pvp matchs you would be at high gold at least and the pvers on bronze so you would never play together?
So maybe you are the same skill level of a pvers and just think you are better because well you play a lot of pvp how could a filthy pvers be on the sameevel as you right?
And before someone say the pvers are always on your team remember the other team has the same pvers believe it or not.

Everyone who blames PvE players should read this.

It’s the same as those WvW commanders blaming PvE players for their wipes, easy scapegoat instead of looking at yourself.

Rewards bring in new players, and PvP is in dire need of new players. How can that be a bad thing? New players learn, and if skilled, raise.

Many veterans complain about being matched with players under their skill level. I’m no stranger to this myself (although I’ve long painfully realized I’m an average player). I believe there are two reasons for that:

• Players overestimate their skills, because they never had a true measure of it. Coming to that realization can be quite hard, but is necessary for one to progress. For me, watching some replays of my games really helped. I would love if players posted more of their replays on the forum, so that others could learn from it, or help point areas of improvement.
• Some players may not know how to carry a game. Carrying a game does not mean playing like usual – it means overplaying, i.e. taking more risks because you know that opponents are too weak to punish you. If you play like usual, you’re not taking full advantage of the skill difference, and it shows when you lose the game in the end.

Is this where all the god-tier bronze ranked players hang out?

Elegie.3620:

Rewards bring in new players, and PvP is in dire need of new players. How can that be a bad thing? New players learn, and if skilled, raise.

Many veterans complain about being matched with players under their skill level. I’m no stranger to this myself (although I’ve long painfully realized I’m an average player). I believe there are two reasons for that:

• Players overestimate their skills, because they never had a true measure of it. Coming to that realization can be quite hard, but is necessary for one to progress. For me, watching some replays of my games really helped. I would love if players posted more of their replays on the forum, so that others could learn from it, or help point areas of improvement.
• Some players may not know how to carry a game. Carrying a game does not mean playing like usual – it means overplaying, i.e. taking more risks because you know that opponents are too weak to punish you. If you play like usual, you’re not taking full advantage of the skill difference, and it shows when you lose the game in the end.

and then in mid gold you find a ranger trapper that spent all the time on forest trying to kill the beasts and trashtalk… , but it’s too much asking to have in my team and in the enemy team ppl who care about the match?

I think a few missed the point in my post. I’m not explicitly or solely “blaming” PvE’ers – in-fact, there are just as many PvP’ers disenamored and disillusioned with their perceived state of PvP, that are also only queuing to farm their PvE rewards and do not care about the impact of their (poor) performance on their teammates. Not all players who love PvE rewards are PvE’ers. The problem is not PvE’ers or PvP’ers, but the sort of player(s) that Care Bear Rewards brings into the mix.

Also, I did not say remove the rewards or incentive from PvP entirely – BUT to detach them from being earned only in Ranked and allow people to earn them in Unranked as well. The main and most important incentive for queuing in any Ranked activity should be your Rank, Rating, etc. That’s why you participate in Ranked – to get Ranked.

I play Ranked PvP to get Ranked. I want to see how I am Rated.

Personally, I’m Silver 3/Gold 1 – I am happy with my average-ness and I believe I am in the tier I belong in. I’m not a pro-esport, and do not aspire to be and do no claim to be. I do not claim to be good, and quite honestly, I may suck at PvP compared to other peoples standards. That’s okay with me. I enjoy the close matches that I am getting, win or lose. I do not mind PvE’ers queuing for PvP – if they are playing to the best of their ability and truly trying, I would rather lose with a PvE’er on my team than to be on a winning team or against a losing team with PvP’ers that don’t care and don’t try.

My experience under the new system has been generally (80%) positive. However, I have experienced in my tiers a few players stating in /team at the start of the match that “I don’t care if we win or lose, I’m just here to earn my new armor.” And they AFK or purposely play terribly to speed-up the losing match so they can grind the armor faster.

Also, honestly, people who start all of this talk about “carrying your team”, etc. It takes a team to win or lose – regardless of how good you think you are. You, individually, do not make or break your team. You see, a good player, regardless of how “broken” the team making system is, would be able to adapt to, work with, and play with any team of any composition and together as a team you would win. A good player would be able to assist and elevate the lesser player to a level on par with them, and as a team, you could win. Stop blaming other people for your failure to work with the team you were given. If your team lost, maybe it was you that was unable to be a team-player or adapt to your circumstances. **Class balance issues are another matter.

If you want to fix PVP then tackle issues like class stacking, duo queue abuse or punishment for afkers and toxic players. Just because this massive negative echo chamber called the forums (and ultimately made up of bronze-gold players thinking they deserve better) claims something is an issue doesn’t mean it actually is.

PVP is more active than ever and that’s a good thing.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or maybe just don’t let people lose to get rewards. Whoever’s idea it was to reward losing needs a reality check and to never touch PvP rewards again.

We all are winners, there is no losing or winning, it is just about fun! Don’t forget it doesn#t matter who wins [/hippytalk]

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or maybe just don’t let people lose to get rewards. Whoever’s idea it was to reward losing needs a reality check and to never touch PvP rewards again.

We all are winners, there is no losing or winning, it is just about fun! Don’t forget it doesn#t matter who wins [/hippytalk]

Shwyx.8190:

If you want to fix PVP then tackle issues like class stacking, duo queue abuse or punishment for afkers and toxic players. Just because this massive negative echo chamber called the forums (and ultimately made up of bronze-gold players thinking they deserve better) claims something is an issue doesn’t mean it actually is.

PVP is more active than ever and that’s a good thing.

Being in Gold or lower does not make a person’s perspective or opinion irrelevant or less than someone who is in Platinum or Legendary. And, neither is the expression of that person’s opinion de facto or by default “negative.” Just because your experience is different, does not mean your experience/opinion is fact or more truthful than others – it just means you’ve had a relatively better experience.

Why?

Let the season shake out and drop the bad players to Bronze and raise the decent players to Gold and raise the great players to Legend.

I barely sPvP I mostly play WvW, I’m sPvPing for the very meaty rewards and I’m in Gold 3.

pelle ossa.9705:

and then in mid gold you find a ranger trapper that spent all the time on forest trying to kill the beasts and trashtalk… , but it’s too much asking to have in my team and in the enemy team ppl who care about the match?

I was watching a recent stream of Sindrener. He had a condi thief in his team, who insisted on doing all the beasts of the game. That wasn’t mid-gold, that was top legend.

That condi thief, despite his choice of build or tactical play, still made it to the top, and must have carried his fair share of games to get there. He obviously cared about the match, otherwise wouldn’t have this ranking.

What matters is that people that seem to make strange tactical decisions don’t make it to bother you – they make it because they think they can win that way. I admit it’s not easy to accommodate these non-standard choices, but most of the time there should be a road to victory, however hidden it is.

I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. This season the classes are fairly well balanced. I love it….EXCEPT I keep seeing WvW roaming tactics in sPvP. People roaming to far while home AND mid need help. These players are not here for ranked. They don’t know how to play. They are playing ranked for the free rewards.

Again I’ll say I think the OP makes good points. All for attracting new blood to pvp, but let them earn their stripes in Unranked first. Ranked arena should be about your ranking, not obtaining shinies.

Anyone who truly enjoys pvp will soon learn to improve and join in the ranked matches.

Wow pve hate on this forum is real.

Question 1: if you are in bronze or sliver why anybody should CARE that you play with pve dude’s? That’s their place.

Question: 2: New season is up and running for some time so if you have some pve guy in golden+ raiting match it means that he earned it somehow. Think about it a bit…did you ever guys blamed somebody else’s for you mistakes? Because it sounds like it really easy to stigmatise pve for some people.

Question 3: Bluri aka Sindrenerr top 1 in EU ranked is also raiding regularly. So going with forums ranting logic – we should ban him right? Because one day he will appear in queue with totally pve legendary armor?

Wow so much bulls*** is on forums lately.

It´s terribad to give rewards on losses. There sould be motivation to try hard like something when getting over 400 and on vitories. And there should be resonable entry barriers so people know how to play RANKED and can handle the class they play.

Speaking for myself, I think the move to give pips even on a loss was a FANTASTIC move. One of the big problems with the old seasons was that, once you’d reached as high as you could go, there wasn’t any more point to playing Ranked PvP, because you weren’t getting any rewards for your time aside from the stock standard reward tracks (and then you might as well just go play Unranked or Hotjoin). This meant that as the Season went on, more and more players left until numbers were so thin by the end of the Season that you could wind up facing the exact same people match after match. (If you thought Player X was a terrible player, hoo boy, are you gonna HATE getting put on his team for 5 games in a row!)

Sure, maybe this means that you attract a bunch of players who aren’t exactly inspired to give it their all each match, but logically, as time goes on, these players should fall down the ranks and cluster in Bronze or low Silver, where they can play against other players who similarly aren’t really bothered about losing. Meanwhile, the players who genuinely care about winning should (in theory) wind up on the higher divisions because they care enough to practice and refine their builds. As the people who are blase about PvP fall lower, you should wind up getting matched with people who are more like you in terms of skill and dedication.

That’s not to say I don’t believe there are genuine problems with matchmaking (I hate blowout matches as much as the next guy, and I really do wonder what’s going on behind the code that results in some simply astounding blowouts like 500-50), but I still believe that ditching the “pips on loss” system would only do more harm than good.

in the long run yes but with the more or less random placement due to 10 matches it combines into some terrible effects makeing easy top rankes for some and brutal grind for others despite both being same “Skill”.
And then it´s how you see ranked. By definition it is competative. You play to win. People that don´t care about wining the match with or for their team should be discourraged to play ranked.

Bandlero.6312:

Shwyx.8190:

If you want to fix PVP then tackle issues like class stacking, duo queue abuse or punishment for afkers and toxic players. Just because this massive negative echo chamber called the forums (and ultimately made up of bronze-gold players thinking they deserve better) claims something is an issue doesn’t mean it actually is.

PVP is more active than ever and that’s a good thing.

Being in Gold or lower does not make a person’s perspective or opinion irrelevant or less than someone who is in Platinum or Legendary. And, neither is the expression of that person’s opinion de facto or by default “negative.” Just because your experience is different, does not mean your experience/opinion is fact or more truthful than others – it just means you’ve had a relatively better experience.

You’re going off a tangent here because neither did I call opinions below gold “irrelevant”, nor is my experience different. I’m currently ranked mid-silver.

However – and I think there’s the big difference to many others in these ranks – I freely admit that I belong in silver. I know how to play two, maybe three classes, I barely know how to rotate after around 90 matches in the new season and I very often die having no idea why I died.

A vast number of players in the middle ranks act like they’re temporarily embarassed Legends, only a winning streak away from being “where they feel they belong”. For some of them, this may be true. Some may actually be stuck in what they consider “Elo hell” due to a quirk of the system. The majority, though, is just where they should be, and dramatically overestimate their skill.

Some food for thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

It´s manily the palyers that were eager to play new season jumping into placement solo.
BAM. RNG placement stuck them and grind hell is greeting a lot of them and many have over thousand matches and i would say are at minimum gold players. And no you can´t carry most matches bronze or silver, only some even if you are skilled legend. You will rise but very slow and when you reach platin after 500 matches you will ask why has the one a place before me only 80 matches even worse if you have a toal of 5000 when the other one isn´t even dragon ranked.

Zaxares.5419:

Speaking for myself, I think the move to give pips even on a loss was a FANTASTIC move. One of the big problems with the old seasons was that, once you’d reached as high as you could go, there wasn’t any more point to playing Ranked PvP, because you weren’t getting any rewards for your time aside from the stock standard reward tracks (and then you might as well just go play Unranked or Hotjoin). This meant that as the Season went on, more and more players left until numbers were so thin by the end of the Season that you could wind up facing the exact same people match after match. (If you thought Player X was a terrible player, hoo boy, are you gonna HATE getting put on his team for 5 games in a row!)

Sure, maybe this means that you attract a bunch of players who aren’t exactly inspired to give it their all each match, but logically, as time goes on, these players should fall down the ranks and cluster in Bronze or low Silver, where they can play against other players who similarly aren’t really bothered about losing. Meanwhile, the players who genuinely care about winning should (in theory) wind up on the higher divisions because they care enough to practice and refine their builds. As the people who are blase about PvP fall lower, you should wind up getting matched with people who are more like you in terms of skill and dedication.

That’s not to say I don’t believe there are genuine problems with matchmaking (I hate blowout matches as much as the next guy, and I really do wonder what’s going on behind the code that results in some simply astounding blowouts like 500-50), but I still believe that ditching the “pips on loss” system would only do more harm than good.

Only one problem with your comparison between last four seasons and this season, the rewards aren’t tied behind Division like they were in the first four seasons, as long as you keep winning in ranked you get rewards regardless of your division you are in this seasons, you should never be rewarded for losing period.

Pips no longer determine Division so no pip loss is needed pips are there for rewards only nothing else.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Only one problem with your comparison between last four seasons and this season, the rewards aren’t tied behind Division like they were in the first four seasons, as long as you keep winning in ranked you get rewards regardless of your division you are in this seasons, you should never be rewarded for losing period.

Pips no longer determine Division so no pip loss is needed pips are there for rewards only nothing else.

But if that’s the case, then why would these players continue to play Ranked when they could simply do Unranked or Hotjoin instead? The simple (perhaps sad, depending on your point of view) truth is that players will ALWAYS gravitate to whatever gives them the best rewards for the least amount of time. If there are no shinies to motivate them, or if the effort to obtain them is deemed too high, they will simply abandon the area and never return. (For a good example, look at what happened to Dungeons after the reward nerf.)

The reason why ANet is even adding these rewards in the first place is to entice more players into PvP, which is probably the mode most starved for players, if matches during off-season are any indicator. (You tend to get the same players match after match.) Giving competitive players challenging, varied and fair matches is only possible if there’s a large PvP base to begin with. Without it, you end up with people in top divisions queueing for hours before a match, or highly skilled players getting matched against people far lower than them and stomping all over the competition. (Which is not satisfying for competitive players and not fun for the losing players who never had a chance.) This eventually breeds boredom and/or frustration, players quit to look for a better experience elsewhere, and it starts a domino-effect that can be nearly impossible to escape from, resulting in the death of the game mode.

But giving the pips only on victories would encourage to fight for it and it would keep players longer and they will train more and get better unless they give up on the first matches. Someone that doesn´t stand up and learn from a loss not willing to fight for a goal is not suited for competative play and should stay far away. On the other side those players might vanish after getting their gear annyways ….

Zaxares.5419:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Only one problem with your comparison between last four seasons and this season, the rewards aren’t tied behind Division like they were in the first four seasons, as long as you keep winning in ranked you get rewards regardless of your division you are in this seasons, you should never be rewarded for losing period.

Pips no longer determine Division so no pip loss is needed pips are there for rewards only nothing else.

But if that’s the case, then why would these players continue to play Ranked when they could simply do Unranked or Hotjoin instead? The simple (perhaps sad, depending on your point of view) truth is that players will ALWAYS gravitate to whatever gives them the best rewards for the least amount of time. If there are no shinies to motivate them, or if the effort to obtain them is deemed too high, they will simply abandon the area and never return. (For a good example, look at what happened to Dungeons after the reward nerf.)

The reason why ANet is even adding these rewards in the first place is to entice more players into PvP, which is probably the mode most starved for players, if matches during off-season are any indicator. (You tend to get the same players match after match.) Giving competitive players challenging, varied and fair matches is only possible if there’s a large PvP base to begin with. Without it, you end up with people in top divisions queueing for hours before a match, or highly skilled players getting matched against people far lower than them and stomping all over the competition. (Which is not satisfying for competitive players and not fun for the losing players who never had a chance.) This eventually breeds boredom and/or frustration, players quit to look for a better experience elsewhere, and it starts a domino-effect that can be nearly impossible to escape from, resulting in the death of the game mode.

I don’t think you read what I wrote or think you understand the rewards systems compared between now and the 4 previous systems. Last 4 seasons you had to progress divisions to gain rewards if you could not progress no rewards. Season 5 You gain rewards from playing matches gain rewards faster from wins slower from losses you don’t need to progress divisions.

The season 5 was a step in the right direction, but they allowed people to abuse it and afk or not even learn the game mode to get rewards, that is bad, since those extra players just AFKing or riding to easy reward win or lose don’t help the population or the grand scheme of things they actually hurt it. Moving forward if they only reward pips on wins then you get players that actually try and learn to play the game mode and since the pips are no longer tied to Division they don’t have to progress past Bronze or any other division they are in they just have to score enough wins, and side note players just there for the rewards don’t usually stay once rewards are obtained, more so for the people abusing the system and Afking.

Do you understand now?

With the current system you can have incentives for Ranked and still provide a good experience, players should never be rewarded for afking or losing, in a "competitive " gamemode, especially when those players are detrimental to others trying to progress.

I see what you’re saying, but I think that players who are afking just to get pips should be punished by bans (and ANet needs to act faster on such reports) rather than removing the pips from losses. The issue of “bad players not learning” will solve itself once enough of them drop down into Bronze and stay there. (Alternatively, ANet should just bring back Solo Queues and Team Queues. Make the rewards the same for each, and all the players who want a genuine PvP experience should do Team Queues. Those just in it for rewards should stay in Solo Queues.)

I adhere very strongly to the design principle that players should always be able to make progress towards their goals, even on failures. This is doubly so when progress on your goals is hampered by factors outside of your control, like random teammates of unknown skill. I don’t know if you were around back when the Marionette was first introduced, but that was the first time that I really saw toxicity in GW2 start to rear its head. If the map succeeded, everything was great. If it failed, hoo boy, the insults and blame game that would follow… Having a system whereby players can still feel like they didn’t completely “waste their time” is crucial for helping to prevent this.

basically you need to get rid of players that only want the rewards and don´t care about the game mode or winning …. Its called ranked.
Think about it: You enter a team competition and don´t care about your team. This is a very bad thing.

As someone who plays multiple game modes, I love getting pve rewards in pvp. It also helps to bring more players into pvp that maybe would never have invested much time into it before. The only thing I don’t like is that it currently gives rewards pips even if you lose the match, which encourages players that just want the PvE rewards to afk or not put in effort into winning.

I know people playing ranked solely for the ascended rewards. They don’t give two friks about their games as long as they can grind it out. I’m all for rewarding play in PvP but ascended armor (which btw doesn’t help you in any way in sPvP) is just a blatant lazy way to boost numbers in the game mode for a short period of time. The “healthy” way of rewarding dedicated players is through exclusive skins/minis/titles, things that make you stand out for playing PvP and not grinding for a week and not coming back.

Burn.5401:

I know people playing ranked solely for the ascended rewards. They don’t give two friks about their games as long as they can grind it out. I’m all for rewarding play in PvP but ascended armor (which btw doesn’t help you in any way in sPvP) is just a blatant lazy way to boost numbers in the game mode for a short period of time. The “healthy” way of rewarding dedicated players is through exclusive skins/minis/titles, things that make you stand out for playing PvP and not grinding for a week and not coming back.

Or just making the ascendendet more expensive, nearly a compleat set in the first weeks of a season? Really?

Tiefsee.3647:

Burn.5401:

I know people playing ranked solely for the ascended rewards. They don’t give two friks about their games as long as they can grind it out. I’m all for rewarding play in PvP but ascended armor (which btw doesn’t help you in any way in sPvP) is just a blatant lazy way to boost numbers in the game mode for a short period of time. The “healthy” way of rewarding dedicated players is through exclusive skins/minis/titles, things that make you stand out for playing PvP and not grinding for a week and not coming back.

Or just making the ascendendet more expensive, nearly a compleat set in the first weeks of a season? Really?

But then if it’s grinded out in a week or two even with a 60%+ loss ratio then they should all be gone by now. If all they care about are the rewards then they’re either done or have loss streaks that throw them all into bronze where any competent PvPer won’t be.

A lot of people are complaining about the PvE players when really they don’t want to take responsibility for their own lack of skill. Sure you get crappy team mates sometimes but not everything is on them especially if you duo queue.

Why is this even an issue? They will be in bronze they can get their loot. If you are better you wont meet them. There is no elo hell. Your elo fluctuates around 75 rating up and down of your actual level. So lets say you are 1000 rating player. You will go on streaks where you go to 925 and streaks where you go to 1075. If you improve more you will obviously climb.

From looking at my own guild and their perspective pvp ranks people are roughly where they should be assuming they played over 50 games by now. Many were placed lower than they should be and quickly climbed to their rating then balanced out at a 50% win rate roughly.

you need to have a fresh flow of pve players to feed to the pvp players otherwise pvp is already long dead.

Few points:

1. If you are a dedicated PvE player and a bad PvP player you can craft ascended gear way faster if you just grind in PvE.

2. Currently the reward system already incentivize winning, since you get 3 times the pips compare to if you lose. If you take away pips if you lose, people simply won’t participate.

3. Without rewards, ranked will be dead. I am at gold, so I am not a total noob. But if it wasn’t because of the reward, I will not bother play ranked. I imagine you will get rid of almost all the population in bronze, silver, half of gold if you remove reward. Even if you are plat or Leg, you will prob get pushed to silver and gold due to bell curve.

4. I do agree that Anet should set a minimum pvp level (20 maybe) to enter ranked. But even without the min level, new players will likely be in bronze anyways, it shouldn’t affect MOST of the experienced players. And if you are experienced you shouldn’t stay there for long, I have play them before, you can 1v2, 1v3 them.

bigmonto.4215:

Few points:

1. If you are a dedicated PvE player and a bad PvP player you can craft ascended gear way faster if you just grind in PvE.

2. Currently the reward system already incentivize winning, since you get 3 times the pips compare to if you lose. If you take away pips if you lose, people simply won’t participate.

3. Without rewards, ranked will be dead. I am at gold, so I am not a total noob. But if it wasn’t because of the reward, I will not bother play ranked. I imagine you will get rid of almost all the population in bronze, silver, half of gold if you remove reward. Even if you are plat or Leg, you will prob get pushed to silver and gold due to bell curve.

4. I do agree that Anet should set a minimum pvp level (20 maybe) to enter ranked. But even without the min level, new players will likely be in bronze anyways, it shouldn’t affect MOST of the experienced players. And if you are experienced you shouldn’t stay there for long, I have play them before, you can 1v2, 1v3 them.

You already have to be rank 20…

First, the incentives keep enough population in the game to make it worthwhile.

Second, I won’t play unranked because I can still be solos v. team.

bigmonto.4215:

Few points:

1. If you are a dedicated PvE player and a bad PvP player you can craft ascended gear way faster if you just grind in PvE.

2. Currently the reward system already incentivize winning, since you get 3 times the pips compare to if you lose. If you take away pips if you lose, people simply won’t participate.

3. Without rewards, ranked will be dead. I am at gold, so I am not a total noob. But if it wasn’t because of the reward, I will not bother play ranked. I imagine you will get rid of almost all the population in bronze, silver, half of gold if you remove reward. Even if you are plat or Leg, you will prob get pushed to silver and gold due to bell curve.

4. I do agree that Anet should set a minimum pvp level (20 maybe) to enter ranked. But even without the min level, new players will likely be in bronze anyways, it shouldn’t affect MOST of the experienced players. And if you are experienced you shouldn’t stay there for long, I have play them before, you can 1v2, 1v3 them.

Not so sure about point 1. It’s been taking me quite some time and gold getting my necro geared in ascended, but just a week in pvp and I could get just about an entire set.

And on point 2, yes you get more pips for winning, (though if I remember correctly it is just an extra 7 or something like that, not 3 times the pips) but you can fly through matches much faster if you just afk and let your team get destroyed. Then just queue up for the next match and enjoy doing something else while you afk your matches, popping back in on occasion to keep your character active enough in the match to avoid the auto kick.

Handing out rewards for losing a match is just a bad method. Besides, those bad players will be in bronze and should be able to win 50% of the time against other bad players, so they will still get the rewards. The only difference will be:

• They won’t get any benefit from afk’ing or throwing matches.
• They will have better incentive to want to win the match.
• Players will not fish the reward tracks as fast as they currently are, keeping people invested in pvp longer and sustaining population longer.

You can say keeping these players in pvp longer would be bad because they suck, but if they aren’t getting anything for losing, they will be trying harder to win, and if they are just really bad then they shouldn’t be messing up your matches since they won’t be in your division unless you yourself are also bad.

Shaogin.2679:

Not so sure about point 1. It’s been taking me quite some time and gold getting my necro geared in ascended, but just a week in pvp and I could get just about an entire set.

And on point 2, yes you get more pips for winning, (though if I remember correctly it is just an extra 7 or something like that, not 3 times the pips) but you can fly through matches much faster if you just afk and let your team get destroyed. Then just queue up for the next match and enjoy doing something else while you afk your matches, popping back in on occasion to keep your character active enough in the match to avoid the auto kick.

Handing out rewards for losing a match is just a bad method. Besides, those bad players will be in bronze and should be able to win 50% of the time against other bad players, so they will still get the rewards. The only difference will be:

• They won’t get any benefit from afk’ing or throwing matches.
• They will have better incentive to want to win the match.
• Players will not fish the reward tracks as fast as they currently are, keeping people invested in pvp longer and sustaining population longer.

You can say keeping these players in pvp longer would be bad because they suck, but if they aren’t getting anything for losing, they will be trying harder to win, and if they are just really bad then they shouldn’t be messing up your matches since they won’t be in your division unless you yourself are also bad.

About point 1, actually you can’t get the full asc set in PvP this season alone period. You can definitely get the full asc set in a week in pve if you just join the HOT meta events and sell everything.

About point 2, you get 3 pips per lost, 10 per win, that’s 3.3333 times. come on people.

Due to point 1 and 2,

1. They are just wasting time if they go afk, so they still want to win
2. If they don’t get the reward if they lose, they will likely not bother, since they can just pve and get the same reward in a shorter amount of time
3. Not all people are as hardcore as you, since season starts I am still on reward box 4 with around 50% win rate. IMO, the current pacing is great.

The bottomline is people are already trying their best to win, if you remove reward when losing, they will not participate.

bigmonto.4215:

Shaogin.2679:

Not so sure about point 1. It’s been taking me quite some time and gold getting my necro geared in ascended, but just a week in pvp and I could get just about an entire set.

And on point 2, yes you get more pips for winning, (though if I remember correctly it is just an extra 7 or something like that, not 3 times the pips) but you can fly through matches much faster if you just afk and let your team get destroyed. Then just queue up for the next match and enjoy doing something else while you afk your matches, popping back in on occasion to keep your character active enough in the match to avoid the auto kick.

Handing out rewards for losing a match is just a bad method. Besides, those bad players will be in bronze and should be able to win 50% of the time against other bad players, so they will still get the rewards. The only difference will be:

• They won’t get any benefit from afk’ing or throwing matches.
• They will have better incentive to want to win the match.
• Players will not fish the reward tracks as fast as they currently are, keeping people invested in pvp longer and sustaining population longer.

You can say keeping these players in pvp longer would be bad because they suck, but if they aren’t getting anything for losing, they will be trying harder to win, and if they are just really bad then they shouldn’t be messing up your matches since they won’t be in your division unless you yourself are also bad.

About point 1, actually you can’t get the full asc set in PvP this season alone period. You can definitely get the full asc set in a week in pve if you just join the HOT meta events and sell everything.

About point 2, you get 3 pips per lost, 10 per win, that’s 3.3333 times. come on people.

Due to point 1 and 2,

1. They are just wasting time if they go afk, so they still want to win
2. If they don’t get the reward if they lose, they will likely not bother, since they can just pve and get the same reward in a shorter amount of time
3. Not all people are as hardcore as you, since season starts I am still on reward box 4 with around 50% win rate. IMO, the current pacing is great.

The bottomline is people are already trying their best to win, if you remove reward when losing, they will not participate.

Of course you can’t get the full set of ascended, which is why I specifically said almost a full set. And your pve method still requires getting your crafting level high enough, crafting time locked materials, and quite a bit of farming for gold, vs just queueing up for matches.

I am by no means a hard core pvp player. I’m at a slightly above average mmr and don’t have too much time to play. As for earning 3 times the pips, was just unaware how many pips I was getting specifically since I never paid attention and just enjoy free loot, simply heard it was about a 7 pip difference. But regardless, myself and many other casual pvp players have easily gotten all of our ascended rewards in about a week’s time, so still has been faster than me and many other casual players will get it from pve, especially if they are newer players.

You say that the reward for losing matches is nothing compared to winning matches, but insist that with that tiny amount of pips it would cause pve players to not even bother with pvp. That is quite a stretch and is just your assumption. We do, however, currently have people that are perfectly fine with afk’ing matches since they will get pips anyways. So your point is based on your assumptions, while mine is based on something that is currently happening.

Rewarding players for losing matches creates unnecessary issues in the game.