Guild Wars 2

Justin ODell.9517:

infantrydiv.1620:

What if someone on my team, in my party, DCs for longer than the grace period, but I win the game 4v5 regardless?

Full loss for ladder standing.

Someone on the team mentioned that, I think. The theory is if we allowed this then people would have someone D/C in the beginning just to guarantee that the other party members can’t lose ladder standing.

But according to your theory, dishonor will deter this sort of behavior in and of itself, so then why implement a double punishment? Dishonor on a team-mate + a loss even though you won 4v5?

It also seems more like you are punishing good teams from stomping other teams (since any leavers on the other side invalidates wins).

I usually play a 3-point strategy to assert dominance on the map for a faster snowball effect. The result vs bad teams is typically a 50-0 start and ends up in a lot of the other team leaving the game more often than a traditional 2-pt strategy. So I feel like I will have to completely reconsider my approach into letting teams that I would traditionally stomp into thinking they have a chance by letting them hold a 1-cap all game.

Sure you claim that dishonor will incentivize them to stay but my issue is that I believe dishonor goes away while the game is closed (I could be wrong) so it’s pretty easy to rage quit a game, go watch anime or do homework and return X hours later for more; or if you vs an actual team multiple times they could rotate who leaves to spread the dishonor among them, etc.

Bottom line is, I don’t feel like it’s right that teams should have to base their strategies around “how can we win, but not stomp them to the point where one of them is tempted to leaving the game…?”

That’s my personal opinion, and I figured that’s why you’re here: to gauge other perspectives that perhaps were not represented during your development theory-crafting.

I’m going to quote myself for the second time, because I think this solves your issue but everyone seems to be missing my post…

Random Weird Guy.3528:

How about this situation:

Team 1 is winning 350-200. A player in team 2 ragequits and team 2 loses.
In this situation team 1 was likely going to win anyway and was actually the reason for the disconnect, therefore team 1 should get the win since they were winning before the disconnect.

I don’t know if this is already the case, but if not then it should be.

Justin ODell.9517:

infantrydiv.1620:

What if someone on my team, in my party, DCs for longer than the grace period, but I win the game 4v5 regardless?

Full loss for ladder standing.

Someone on the team mentioned that, I think. The theory is if we allowed this then people would have someone D/C in the beginning just to guarantee that the other party members can’t lose ladder standing.

Seems good to me, u have to assume with who u go in ranked.

Justin ODell.9517:

Lux.7169:

But according to your theory, dishonor will deter this sort of behavior in and of itself, so then why implement a double punishment? Dishonor on a team-mate + a loss even though you won 4v5?

Multiple. Accounts.

Don’t think I’m following your train of thought, but:

Shouldn’t matter, if 4 players win vs 5, they always deserve a win, and in addition, the people on the 5 team deserve -3 leaderboard points for managing to lose 5v4.

Justin ODell.9517:

infantrydiv.1620:

Don’t think I’m following your train of thought, but:

Shouldn’t matter, if 4 players win vs 5, they always deserve a win, and in addition, the people on the 5 team deserve -3 leaderboard points for managing to lose 5v4.

Sorry, I should have elaborated. Having multiple accounts is the bane of the dishonor system. Anyone can create multiple accounts to easily avoid dishonor.

Much like imaclown.1628 aka NeXeD (that’s against the code of conduct, by the way) uses multiple accounts to manage forum infractions.

The thought is that cheezers and exploiters aren’t going to care if they break one rule or two, if they want to do it they will do it. So we have to design around them.

I might just be dumb, but I still have absolutely no clue how people on the 4 side of a 4v5 have anything to gain from that, or how it could possibly abused. Clearly in a 4v5, the 4 team is at a huge disadvantage, and giving them an automatic loss or loss of leaderboard points for winning the game seems ridiculous.

I have won 4v5 games before, and to be given a loss or lose leaderboard standing after winning from a disadvantage like that would be a real slap in the face.

I believe you guys have already fixed the main cause of 4v5s, with people who would queue and then forget about the pop. Your new notification and queue accept system has fixed that.

I don’t think whether someone DCs or not should have any impact whatsoever on leaderboard ranking or MMR of the other people in the game. It makes it too complicated, and probably unfair in some situations. IMO, if people are going to DC, just let the dishonor system handle it and leave MMR/leaderboard ranking out of the equation. Giving the person who DCs -3 LB points and dishonor is enough.

For example, I could already exploit your new system like this: Say there is someone I really dislike on the other team, who is trying to climb the ladder. I simply DC and they don’t gain any ladder points from the game. I could see people doing this if they get put against top team, or just against people they don’t like. Sure, the DCer would get penalized with a -3 leaderboard, but it then prevents everyone else in the game from gaining leaderboard ranking.

infantrydiv.1620:

Justin ODell.9517:

Lux.7169:

But according to your theory, dishonor will deter this sort of behavior in and of itself, so then why implement a double punishment? Dishonor on a team-mate + a loss even though you won 4v5?

Multiple. Accounts.

Don’t think I’m following your train of thought, but:

Shouldn’t matter, if 4 players win vs 5, they always deserve a win, and in addition, the people on the 5 team deserve -3 leaderboard points for managing to lose 5v4.

if you win 4v5 you should actually get WAY MORE points than if you were 5…

ar at least this is how logic works…

Please do, the “deserter but party still won” is a must.

It would be very demoralizing and it would destroy many guild bonds.

I would even take it a step further in terms of fairness:
-deserter gets -3 pts in ladder
-other party members get the regular -3, -2, -1, 0 pts that the matchmaking prophecy predicted.

Basically playing 4v5 is never a gain to your team and should never be. The party members should just recieve regular losing punishment not added. And deserter cant play for 15min now anyways so they need to find a new member

Archaon.9524:

infantrydiv.1620:

Justin ODell.9517:

Lux.7169:

But according to your theory, dishonor will deter this sort of behavior in and of itself, so then why implement a double punishment? Dishonor on a team-mate + a loss even though you won 4v5?

Multiple. Accounts.

Don’t think I’m following your train of thought, but:

Shouldn’t matter, if 4 players win vs 5, they always deserve a win, and in addition, the people on the 5 team deserve -3 leaderboard points for managing to lose 5v4.

if you win 4v5 you should actually get WAY MORE points than if you were 5…

ar at least this is how logic works…

Nope, youd sacriffice a teammate, or even one of your multi accounts if were including that, when score would be 490-300 with safe 2 cap to get bonus points

Flumek.9043:

Archaon.9524:

infantrydiv.1620:

Justin ODell.9517:

Lux.7169:

But according to your theory, dishonor will deter this sort of behavior in and of itself, so then why implement a double punishment? Dishonor on a team-mate + a loss even though you won 4v5?

Multiple. Accounts.

Don’t think I’m following your train of thought, but:

Shouldn’t matter, if 4 players win vs 5, they always deserve a win, and in addition, the people on the 5 team deserve -3 leaderboard points for managing to lose 5v4.

if you win 4v5 you should actually get WAY MORE points than if you were 5…

ar at least this is how logic works…

Nope, youd sacriffice a teammate, or even one of your multi accounts if were including that, when score would be 490-300 with safe 2 cap to get bonus points

So are you basically saying that if you manage to win while playing 4v5 (And that means totally outplaying other team) you should be punished?

I rarely post, but check the forums on a regular basis. And I just HAD to say something on this issue.

To win a 4v5 and get punished or not rewarded is a terrible idea on so many levels.

I’ll just give one example. Two players clash even though they are winning (possibly smashing the other team), one decides to d/c on purpose to kitten of the other teammate.

It sounds shocking but I have had people afk in multiple games one after the other to get at someone. Some people just don’t care about the leader board or their other teammates.

I do realise that with the dishonor system the person who d/c will get punished. But with multiple accounts they may not care. It just doesn’t seem right…

If I have misunderstood anything let me know. I only quickly read all posts.

Justin ODell.9517:

If you play with a party, and someone on your team deserts then everyone in the party will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

But… why?

We had such situation few weeks ago: full team queue, one of our members can’t enter the match at all. His game crashed and he couldn’t come online till the end of the game. Connection error etc. 4v5 full match. Anyway we put big effort and won this match with 4 people. Now you telling me if it happens now this will count as a loss? How is this fair?

This means if someone of your party disconnects, you should just stop trying? Please rethink this.

Justin ODell.9517:

infantrydiv.1620:

…

I’m going to bring up the ‘party has deserter but won’ scenario with the team.

A potential issue with this is that the team of 4 is now the only group with something to fight for, as the team of 5 (with no D/Cer) is not getting points regardless of outcome. You might see a lot more teams of 4 winning in that situation…..

Justin ODell.9517:

If you play with a party, you will never lose ladder standing because someone else on your team, but not in your party, deserted.

If you play with a party, and someone on your team deserts then everyone in the party will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

Justin, the way it’s written now these 2 points directly contradict each other. I assume you mean for the second one:
If you play with a party, and someone on your PARTY deserts then everyone in the party will take a full loss worth of ladder standing regardless of outcome.

Flumek.9043:

Nope, youd sacriffice a teammate, or even one of your multi accounts if were including that, when score would be 490-300 with safe 2 cap to get bonus points

I think you should get bonus points based on the how long you were down a player (calculated from score, time or both). So if you are winning 450 to 0 and someone leaves for whatever reason and win then you shouldn’t get as much of a bonus as you would if you were 4v5 since the start of the match and managed to win.

if my teammate dc’s at least leave his toon in game and allow me to choose what point to send him to.

lol he wont do kitten but hes a warm body that can decap stuff and

@Justin

Could we not have a check in place to check the score of a game at the time of a desertion, plus it must be past a certain point in the game?

For instance, it checks to see if the team WINNING at the time of the desertion had at least, let’s say, 300 points. It also checks to see if the match had been going on for more than 3 minutes.

I just find it discouraging if you are playing really well in a match, beating a team so bad that one of the opponents rage quits, and then all of a sudden you just wasted your time and good effort because of HIS/HER actions, not your own. Punishment (lack of leaderboard score is a punishment) for someone else’s actions is never a good solution, especially one on the other team.

Please reconsider.

Wait so if you are winning 300-0 and an opponent rage quits then you get no credit for the win?

:O That can’t be true. That is totally and utterly crazy.

Guys, we are firstly trying to convince them,

that in case one of PARTY team members rejoins too late like 31seconds, or he DCes near end game, but you are WINNING due to a obvious big lead, YOU WONT GET PUNISHMENT FOR WHOLE TEAM or the WIN should simply COUNT.

Let us first get this sorted, as such scenarios are most common in 5x poeple partys playing on EU servers.
Then you can dream about the bonus you want to get those 2‰ of time you actualy win a 4v5 try to realise that the game shouldnt promote 4v5 play, its just a luck shot you get here and there and can be used as a brag story.

So I just won a 4v5 game as soloQ. One player of our team dced about 2 mins after game started and didn’t come back.

What would happen to my MMR and my Ladder position if they were active?

So why would i get punished if i play with some friends that suddenly dcs and have to authorize network due to some issues with their isp that takes longer then the grace period?

DCs happens from time to time, but why punish the entire party for one person who cant do much about dcing?

If you and me lived in the same house, i then suddenly decide to scam people on money, the police finds out and comes to get me, you have no idea about this, you were never involved in this – but you get sent to jail as well. Do you think that is a fair act?

Does this encourage me to not play with friends? Do you think this is fair Justin?

“GW2 is rewarding to play with other people, unless you go spvp with your friends and they dc then your entire team is the bandits in this drama” thats how it is now.

Now i questioned my 6 year old cousin, he said “not fair” – i do agree.

A yes or no will be enough to answer the question; Do you think it is fair?

necro-post…
/15schars

Arahzor.1832:

So why would i get punished if i play with some friends that suddenly dcs and have to authorize network due to some issues with their isp that takes longer then the grace period?

DCs happens from time to time, but why punish the entire party for one person who cant do much about dcing?

If you and me lived in the same house, i then suddenly decide to scam people on money, the police finds out and comes to get me, you have no idea about this, you were never involved in this – but you get sent to jail as well. Do you think that is a fair act?

Does this encourage me to not play with friends? Do you think this is fair Justin?

“GW2 is rewarding to play with other people, unless you go spvp with your friends and they dc then your entire team is the bandits in this drama” thats how it is now.

Now i questioned my 6 year old cousin, he said “not fair” – i do agree.

A yes or no will be enough to answer the question; Do you think it is fair?

without this rule, teams could have a designated player just quit whenever they aren’t winning so the rest of them dont lose LB points.

its not intended to punish you for ally DCs. although that can potentially happen, it should be rare enough that -3 LB points isn’t going to ruin your day is it? if it’s not rare, then maybe you should stop queuing with that person or at least do unranked or something until you’re stable.