Passive NPC's in PvP and 1 v 1
There are some classes/builds which are strong 1v1, but it doesn’t matter so much because there aren’t that many forced 1v1s in the game.
e.g. you play offguard and go far, turret bunker engi on their close, you know you cannot win so what do you do? Go mid, simple as that, and you completely negate the engi’s 1v1 advantage. If he comes up to support mid, it’s a teamfight where aoe can kill the turrets.
My point is, it might not be good game design for 1v1s, but the game is not about 1v1s.
There are some classes/builds which are strong 1v1, but it doesn’t matter so much because there aren’t that many forced 1v1s in the game.
WAT.
More on topic, wholeheartedly agree but at the same time we also need to reduce war point presence cuz it really means kitten to have 4% crit chance when your auto deals 2k-2.5kblank damage due to 1278123598175 might stacks.
Just sayin
Condi engi is the best 1v1 build.
Condi engi is the best 1v1 build.
Lol no! Turret engi might be the best 1v1 build ..
Djooce // http://www.twitch.tv/djooce
1vs1 on a circle is a matter. 1vs1 is totally onother matter.
Gandara
There are some classes/builds which are strong 1v1, but it doesn’t matter so much because there aren’t that many forced 1v1s in the game.
e.g. you play offguard and go far, turret bunker engi on their close, you know you cannot win so what do you do? Go mid, simple as that, and you completely negate the engi’s 1v1 advantage. If he comes up to support mid, it’s a teamfight where aoe can kill the turrets.My point is, it might not be good game design for 1v1s, but the game is not about 1v1s.
Yeah It is, a lot, and depends on how you play. This class might as well run to your homepoint and defeat you, with some lame bunker spec, that shouldnt be able to kill you. I wanted you to discuss the fact that what I am saying is 1000% true. I don’t want you to discuss how you move on the map, or how you play solo Q for that matter. I want you to discuss PASSIVE NPC’s being better than players. NOW DISCUSS, is THAT good game design. Yes/No.
I play condi warrior and face these all day, I win against the majority by far, but new builds such as the ele bunker can out dps my fairly defensive build with his pets ( easily ) The engineer needs to get locked down instantly and play a bit too offensive. And still by that point, his dps done by npc’s is so high while he can focus on being defensive.
There are some classes/builds which are strong 1v1, but it doesn’t matter so much because there aren’t that many forced 1v1s in the game.
e.g. you play offguard and go far, turret bunker engi on their close, you know you cannot win so what do you do? Go mid, simple as that, and you completely negate the engi’s 1v1 advantage. If he comes up to support mid, it’s a teamfight where aoe can kill the turrets.My point is, it might not be good game design for 1v1s, but the game is not about 1v1s.
Yeah It is, a lot, and depends on how you play. This class might as well run to your homepoint and defeat you, with some lame bunker spec, that shouldnt be able to kill you. I wanted you to discuss the fact that what I am saying is 1000% true. I don’t want you to discuss how you move on the map, or how you play solo Q for that matter. I want you to discuss PASSIVE NPC’s being better than players. NOW DISCUSS, is THAT good game design. Yes/No.
I play condi warrior and face these all day, I win against the majority by far, but new builds such as the ele bunker can out dps my fairly defensive build with his pets ( easily ) The engineer needs to get locked down instantly and play a bit too offensive. And still by that point, his dps done by npc’s is so high while he can focus on being defensive.
I think Warrior is one of the most boring and OP classes in PVP. They have a stat advantage over every other class in the game, they have the best condition removal in the game, they can be as tanky as hell and still put out damage that is pretty good.
If anything, the surge in certain builds is directly a counter to the warrior problem.
Also, you dont actually need to fight on the point when your trying to take it back. It doesnt matter if you are on the point, or just outside it, if they are on it, it will not be capped. On my thief, if I go up to an engie on the point he will win and I will achieve nothing, also pocketing his team a nice 5 points as well for the easy kill. Same build same situation, if I stay ranged I can bring him down. Takes a little bit more time than other classes, but this way I get to have the 5 points for my team, and I can take the point once he is nice and dead.
I never understood the extreme outlook of the points. You fight FOR the point, you dont have to stand right on it all the time. If they have the point already and your trying to decap, it really makes no difference if your on it or not, work on removing them from the situation and then get on the point. (same situation when someone caps home at the start, and then sits on it without moving the entire game. It can only work in Team arena as you can use that as part of a tactic, but on solo it rarely helps.)
AOE condi damage is the normal counter to AI builds, and it counters them pretty hard so they’re fine. AOE condi works against necro minions, mesmer phantasms and ranger spirits. The only problem with AI currently is that Engi turrets are IMMUNE to conditions and if you kill them while on point, they aoe knockback + aoe burst dps on explosion.
Giving AI condition immunity + high aoe damage on being killed + aoe knockback + high damage if not killed = awful game design. It’s one of those cases where you lose if you kill them and you lose if you don’t kill them.
1vs1 on a circle is a matter. 1vs1 is totally onother matter.
This is what makes most 1v1 spvp builds effective – limited kiting options. In an open battleground, a turret Engi is next to useless since their foes can just wander off – and it’s much, much easier to kite other minions when not trying to stand in a tiny circle.
A defending Engi who’s thrown turrets into silly locations (hard to even find nevermind take down due to awkward camera) is really quite effective as they can bunker while still dealing decent damage/CC – but they can’t leave their point without completely crippling their build for >30s.
The only things I really have against Engi turrets right now:
- they can be thrown into daft places, as said above
- they continue to function while out of range of the Engineer. I don’t think they should be able to fire on anything when their master is, say, 2500+ units away – though they shouldn’t selfdestruct, just become nonfunctional.
There are some classes/builds which are strong 1v1, but it doesn’t matter so much because there aren’t that many forced 1v1s in the game.
e.g. you play offguard and go far, turret bunker engi on their close, you know you cannot win so what do you do? Go mid, simple as that, and you completely negate the engi’s 1v1 advantage. If he comes up to support mid, it’s a teamfight where aoe can kill the turrets.My point is, it might not be good game design for 1v1s, but the game is not about 1v1s.
Yeah It is, a lot, and depends on how you play. This class might as well run to your homepoint and defeat you, with some lame bunker spec, that shouldnt be able to kill you. I wanted you to discuss the fact that what I am saying is 1000% true. I don’t want you to discuss how you move on the map, or how you play solo Q for that matter. I want you to discuss PASSIVE NPC’s being better than players. NOW DISCUSS, is THAT good game design. Yes/No.
I play condi warrior and face these all day, I win against the majority by far, but new builds such as the ele bunker can out dps my fairly defensive build with his pets ( easily ) The engineer needs to get locked down instantly and play a bit too offensive. And still by that point, his dps done by npc’s is so high while he can focus on being defensive.
I think Warrior is one of the most boring and OP classes in PVP. They have a stat advantage over every other class in the game, they have the best condition removal in the game, they can be as tanky as hell and still put out damage that is pretty good.
If anything, the surge in certain builds is directly a counter to the warrior problem.
Also, you dont actually need to fight on the point when your trying to take it back. It doesnt matter if you are on the point, or just outside it, if they are on it, it will not be capped. On my thief, if I go up to an engie on the point he will win and I will achieve nothing, also pocketing his team a nice 5 points as well for the easy kill. Same build same situation, if I stay ranged I can bring him down. Takes a little bit more time than other classes, but this way I get to have the 5 points for my team, and I can take the point once he is nice and dead.
I never understood the extreme outlook of the points. You fight FOR the point, you dont have to stand right on it all the time. If they have the point already and your trying to decap, it really makes no difference if your on it or not, work on removing them from the situation and then get on the point. (same situation when someone caps home at the start, and then sits on it without moving the entire game. It can only work in Team arena as you can use that as part of a tactic, but on solo it rarely helps.)
There was a reason why I didn’t mention that I play warrior. You’re the reason. And I again, I don’t want to hear about your movement, I played this 2000 hours more than you. Maybe 4000 hours.
Also @DaliIndica.9041, you’re really boring. Listening to your PvP adventures makes me want to move my forum post onto a private forum where people are uniquely invited. The requirements aren’t that high.
ANYWAYS. Your thief has nothing to do with this. And seeing that you’re NEITHER top 1000 in solo or TEAM Q REALLY makes me wonder why you have the authority to even mention a class being op+boring. GO DO YOUR STUDIES. I’d SAY atleast 1000 hours of soloq/teamq, then return to this post and make a proper comment.
(edited by Chukree.1756)
Its always been pretty much this way. A-net loves autoplay and stuff that allows it. OP passives and pets and all sorts of junk that makes the game too hard to balance.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Also @DaliIndica.9041, you’re really boring. Listening to your PvP adventures makes me want to move my forum post onto a private forum where people are uniquely invited. The requirements aren’t that high.
ANYWAYS. Your thief has nothing to do with this. And seeing that you’re NEITHER top 1000 in solo or TEAM Q REALLY makes me wonder why you have the authority to even mention a class being op+boring. GO DO YOUR STUDIES. I’d SAY atleast 1000 hours of soloq/teamq, then return to this post and make a proper comment.
Maybe you should go and learn to read what you already put. You did mention you played a warrior, right in the post I quoted. Try harder next time, or if you feel its too difficult to form an opinion, just jump on your warrior and ez mode it all the way to a simple win.
I love that you are using the leaderboards as an entry into the game, as my main account (I am never so silly as to post on my main) is in the top 500, but my stats make no sense and I doubt I am even close to the top 500. But still, my rank is high so I must be amazing and your entire argument falls apart.
I applaud you sir, quite a feat you have performed.