Guild Wars 2

Yep MM Necro
Yep Spirit Ranger

Thankyou anet. Makes sense.

Don’t forget Mesmers. Just sit back and let confusion and Phantasms do all the work.

Your reasoning is lacking, whether true or not this is going to turn into a flamethread.

This guy must have lost a lot of matches against necro and ranger users XD

Yes, passive skills can be a good chance to play whit only 6/7 button to push, but if you’re not a good player you can be a ranger or a necro, but the enemy kill you quickly.

There’s active and passive skills and builds, for every class.

Ranger spirit, Necro MM, Mesmer phantasm, Engi turret, Warrior banner, Thief signet/venom, Guardian Spirit Weapon, Ele signet+summon.

Every class has a build whit passive skills, but not all that builds work well in spvp, that’s right.

But the best necro isn’t the necro MM, the best ranger isn’t the spirit ranger, the best warrior isn’t the bunker.

Spirit Ranger and Necro MM can be defeated easy if you use AoE skills.

Minions hp si very low. If you destroy a ranger spirits you destroy all it’s strategy. The same for the necro.

Against a necro kill first the minion of the healing skill and then the elite minion, then kill the necro easy.

And a passive skill user is limited to weapon skills only. if you find the way to make he in danger he can’t do anithing to save himself because the lack of skills.

If you fight an active skills user, he can fight you in different situations and save himself if he’s in danger because of the variety of skills he can active.

Passive skills can be the great weakness of a build.

Dead Muppet.9718:

Yep MM Necro
Yep Spirit Ranger

Thankyou anet. Makes sense.

Don’t forget Mesmer. This class actually is absurdly strong with insane damage and perma invul, stealth, teleport… horrible!

What about spirit guardians? They’re like spirit rangers except their spirits are more awesome…

How is hambow warriors any different from spirit rangers? They just sit there, tank all day with 932809859234 regen, spam 1 untill their andren is up then press F1 and that’s it really. Rinse and repeat.

First off, I have to say that I’m grateful for the toughness of fights. The fight quality has improved. All Anet needs to do now is fine tune that quality. Please reduce Warrior stability uptime. #itsforthebest

1v1 MM necro is very strong but in competitive play they are very weak.

Spirit ranger is fine if you disregard the elite. The Spirit of Nature Renewal is like a warbanner that follows you around, heals everyone for 450hp/s, can rez everyone three times while curing 5 conditions, and obviously trigger again upon death.

It’s so broken that it’s impossible to win a team fight (or 1v1) while it’s up. You have to instantly make the decision to focus it, which wipes all of their conditions anyway.

No competitive team will ever NOT use at least one spirit ranger in it’s current state.

Oh and it’s so tanky that’s actually very easy to play.

I am not sure that most players understand how Minion Masters work. Yes we recieve some passive damage from our minions but that hardly makes it a passive build.

Every utility slot still has active abilities that need to be used in order to win battles. Bone Fiend = Root, which is very useful, Wurm = Teleport and Stunbreaker, great escape skill, Golem = Knockdown, great CC. If you arent manually exploding your Bone Minions then you are losing out on damage as well, this means you have to be aware of their health and positioning.

It is still an easier spec to play than Conditions, but its not like you just slot minions and auto attack people.(Ranger Shortbow #1 spam)

TNoD.8143:

1v1 MM necro is very strong but in competitive play they are very weak.

This is the SPvP forum right? In 5v5 matches a LOT of encounters are 1v1’s.

As a defensive mesmer I get a lot of the downplaying of 1v1 also and it never made much sense to me.

Wintel.4873:

TNoD.8143:

1v1 MM necro is very strong but in competitive play they are very weak.

This is the SPvP forum right? In 5v5 matches a LOT of encounters are 1v1’s.

What serious team uses a MM necro?

They provide very little in a team fight; no support, just a tanky presence and some damage. Many other classes are very good in 1v1 AND offer much more in a team fight such as a hammer longbow warrior.

TNoD.8143:

Wintel.4873:

TNoD.8143:

1v1 MM necro is very strong but in competitive play they are very weak.

This is the SPvP forum right? In 5v5 matches a LOT of encounters are 1v1’s.

What serious team uses a MM necro?

They provide very little in a team fight; no support, just a tanky presence and some damage. Many other classes are very good in 1v1 AND offer much more in a team fight such as a hammer longbow warrior.

what teams are left is the question. only team left on NA is GF

but yea, passive dmg, passive heals, passive condi clear..

I didn’t think there would actually be people defending the AI shait builds. Turns out I was wrong

Stx.4857:

I am not sure that most players understand how Minion Masters work. Yes we recieve some passive damage from our minions but that hardly makes it a passive build.

Every utility slot still has active abilities that need to be used in order to win battles. Bone Fiend = Root, which is very useful, Wurm = Teleport and Stunbreaker, great escape skill, Golem = Knockdown, great CC. If you arent manually exploding your Bone Minions then you are losing out on damage as well, this means you have to be aware of their health and positioning.

It is still an easier spec to play than Conditions, but its not like you just slot minions and auto attack people.(Ranger Shortbow #1 spam)

Indeed. I still hate that instant-unblockable explosion though.

Ranger has the best traits in game,tweak it a bit and reduce procs on spirits reduce their hp for a bit and tweak elite a little bit so ranger avoid mid cause of aoe cleave and stay only back point defender,u can tweak cooldowns and procs every patch so that nooobs go in pve and pettinz zoo down there.In meanwhile fix their pet dmg output etc

there’s nothing more passive than standing there stun/immob locked.. so blame the summer of hambows for pushing the meta to migrate to builds that still work even when you can’t do anything.

shimmerless.4560:

Dirame.8521:

First off, I have to say that I’m grateful for the toughness of fights. The fight quality has improved. All Anet needs to do now is fine tune that quality. Please reduce Warrior stability uptime. #itsforthebest

I don’t mind Warrior’s high stab uptime in and of itself, however in tandem with Zerk Stance (which has great synergy since it shares a +duration Adept trait) it can end up feeling overbearing. Warrior has always had excellent mobility and many diverse specs require distance and control defensively (stuns and blinds) to keep targets from sticking to them.

The average hambow shouldn’t have any mobility though. Greatsword warris on the other hand don’t have much control.

A warrior specced for stability has massive amounts of it (Dolly signet, balanced stance, Lyssa, Last Stand trait) but I reckon most players only run balanced stance, which gives 8 seconds every 40 seconds. I think it is ok considering that guardian gives 5 seconds of stability and retaliation to allies with 30 sec cd (which can be lowered to 24 seconds while stances can only be increased in duration).

Seriously, something has to be done about this. TWO times now in the past 5ish games I have done the opposing comp been 3 Necros, 1 Mesmer, and 1 Ranger.

Both game were beyond insane. It felt like there was nothing we could do. One sec you were on point, next there were 20+ pets overwhelming you while being chain feared.

Edit: Very next game…4 Necros. We won this one thanks to Skyhammer spam. It just feels like SOMETHING changed. There were never this many Necros before, now I see the opposing teams always have 1-2, if not more (funny thing…in all of these games, I have yet to actually team with one…go figure).

shimmerless.4560:

Fair enough, I can’t disagree with much of this (though I’m not sure that GS Warriors have no control, Mace/Shield and the long-duration #4 cripple aren’t too shabby).

It is hard to describe exactly what I think about Zerk Stance in particular since it does grant a fair amount of time for Warriors to dish out heavy melee pressure, and before the buffs I remember this being difficult. Maybe if it became better intertwined with adrenaline, say you get a small amount of +duration on the stance every time you gain adren from a successful weapon strike.

True, just saying that warri does have to sacrifice some to gain other abilities, such as losing control with hammer in favour of greatsword mobility. Unless you run, GS/Hammer, but I find this set-up a bit difficult to use in sPvP situations atleast.

Wintel.4873:

TNoD.8143:

1v1 MM necro is very strong but in competitive play they are very weak.

This is the SPvP forum right? In 5v5 matches a LOT of encounters are 1v1’s.

I main a S/D fresh air elementalist build and neither spirit rangers nor MM Necros are any real obstacle for me. The issue is that the AI will not tell them to get out of dodge when the fire starts raining down from the sky. Arcane Power into Dragon’s Tooth, Phoenix and Flame Grab and all the pets are a pile of ash save Flesh Golems and Nature’s Renewal and the Ranger’s pet. Meanwhile I often have my own Elemental anyway.

Once that’s done the character is not much of an issue compared to a more active build because all of their utilities are now on cooldown and both builds have lost a lot of their damage to that massive explosion of fire (in the case of the necro their heal is also down). Often the player eats at least some of the damage as well, usually from Phoenix and not Dragon’s Tooth so much.

Even the Phantasm mesmer while trickier than Necros and Rangers, especially with their new heal, can be dealt with in much the same way although in this case as well as with the necro to some extent Ether Renewal as my heal really comes into it’s own pulling off entire stacks of conditions when needed.

In short these builds can be stopped even if it’s not particularly easy and as is almost always the case the best solution is often overlooked. The reason these builds are so strong is the same reason healing signet is used virtually always on warriors for example. The return on the effort you put in is very high and the chances of screwing up are minimal. Builds like that will always be favored over more complex ones because in realistic situations people do screw up. The more forgiving a build is for its user the more people will use it. That is human nature and ought to be expected. Personally I hate passive play and never use any of the passive builds but some times things like healing signet are too powerful on their own to justify not taking it just so that you can have a skill you have to activate.

Prysin.8542:

How is hambow warriors any different from spirit rangers? They just sit there, tank all day with 932809859234 regen, spam 1 untill their andren is up then press F1 and that’s it really. Rinse and repeat.

Oh sweet reality, why must you constantly resist attempts to exaggerate and oversimplify you?

Silv.9207:

This guy must have lost a lot of matches against necro and ranger users XD

Yes, passive skills can be a good chance to play whit only 6/7 button to push, but if you’re not a good player you can be a ranger or a necro, but the enemy kill you quickly.

There’s active and passive skills and builds, for every class.

Ranger spirit, Necro MM, Mesmer phantasm, Engi turret, Warrior banner, Thief signet/venom, Guardian Spirit Weapon, Ele signet+summon.

Every class has a build whit passive skills, but not all that builds work well in spvp, that’s right.

But the best necro isn’t the necro MM, the best ranger isn’t the spirit ranger, the best warrior isn’t the bunker.

Spirit Ranger and Necro MM can be defeated easy if you use AoE skills.

Minions hp si very low. If you destroy a ranger spirits you destroy all it’s strategy. The same for the necro.

Against a necro kill first the minion of the healing skill and then the elite minion, then kill the necro easy.

And a passive skill user is limited to weapon skills only. if you find the way to make he in danger he can’t do anithing to save himself because the lack of skills.

If you fight an active skills user, he can fight you in different situations and save himself if he’s in danger because of the variety of skills he can active.

Passive skills can be the great weakness of a build.

Sorry bro, but you really don’t know what your talking about at all.
With the intro of new healing skills you can, and I have thrown 5 evis that hit for 5K+ on a spirit ranger and had him bounce back from all of them. The hound knocking you down, the wolf fearing, sun spirit burst blinding you..and the alt variations for necro with golem rush, poison and minion detonation, mesmer clone destruction catch 22 where it does matter if you or the mesmer shatters it.. they are far from only being able to use weapon skills only. The AoE skills you speak of are either limited in number of targets, or have received heavy nerfs last patch. People really love to hate on healing signet because it is passive..how bout 7 pets that are all passive until you want to actually activate a skill on them that is over and above their norm passive play. The only counter is that they have pathing issues, but make for it by moving at half the speed of light squared.

The O.P has the right of it. Any PvP environment that purposefully created so much minion/catch 22 play is really not deserved of being called PvP. Player vs Player+ton-o-minion AI is what it should be called. Try taking a underwater node with a spirit ranger and MM on it..I hope you bought 70% of your team with you.

TheGreatA.4192:

shimmerless.4560:

I don’t mind Warrior’s high stab uptime in and of itself, however in tandem with Zerk Stance (which has great synergy since it shares a +duration Adept trait) it can end up feeling overbearing. Warrior has always had excellent mobility and many diverse specs require distance and control defensively (stuns and blinds) to keep targets from sticking to them.

The average hambow shouldn’t have any mobility though. Greatsword warris on the other hand don’t have much control.

A warrior specced for stability has massive amounts of it (Dolly signet, balanced stance, Lyssa, Last Stand trait) but I reckon most players only run balanced stance, which gives 8 seconds every 40 seconds. I think it is ok considering that guardian gives 5 seconds of stability and retaliation to allies with 30 sec cd (which can be lowered to 24 seconds while stances can only be increased in duration).

They usually also have the passive which brings it up to 16 seconds. With the amount of CC they have, that’s enough time for them to wreck you or to put you in a really bad spot. Like Shimmerless said, comboed with Zerk stance its even worse because you can’t even blind them for 8 seconds.

Drop that combo to a max of 8-10 seconds and let only the cream of the crop rise to the top. I don’t think you’d need to nerf Signet in PvP if they do the above (buf maybe nerf it in WvW).