Guild Wars 2

Soryuju.8164:

Woutan.5934:

No warrior buff mentioned.

Its hard to disagree with op.

Directly from the post: “…warriors will have an option to remove conditions when using burst abilities.”

We’ll see how it’s implemented and what other changes are made, but I’m pretty sure this could qualify as a Warrior buff.

This thread is fairly ridiculous, seeing as there are only a handful of changes mentioned in the post, and they’ve stated that this is going to be the largest balance patch in the history of the game. At least wait until you know what’s actually happening before you call it a fail. It may very well be a fail, but for now, the claims are baseless.

Also, calling Torment on the Mesmer’s Scepter now. Not sure where it will fall for the Thief, but I’m betting on an underused utility or weapon set.

So warriors use their burst skill to remove conditions instead of for doing, you know, burst damage? Yeah a real buff that one….

kostbabis.8791:

mesmers and thieves get new condie..now a thief punish you for moving
lol the forum rage will be so fun!Cant wait

They need to buff their chances to one hit kill people from stealth, its mandatory.

Poxxia.1547:

Huhm … so instead of using the well-functioning mechanics from GW1.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enduring_Toxin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear

Those are about… five years old now?

And the newer variants:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winter's_Embrace
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains

All You people, stop taking the “leaked patch notes” as 100% truth, it could be anyone that posted these “notes” and it would not take more than a couple of hours to write them.
Even if they are the patch notes, ANet said they are never sure what actually reaches into the game until the very final moment.

We can have the best balance in this game in world history. It still won’t change the fact that there are nearly no viable builds, caused by 80% useless traits and utilities. Also ppl don’t care about it as long as soloQ is still a mess. I’m waiting for 2014 and I really hope by then we could leave the beta-state behind us.

If this is anywhere near whats really going to happen then Engi patch notes are horrendous … once again … big kittening surprise

srsly reworked traits are crap! How about bringing back the old kit refinement .. you know the trait that never was OP and that ANET broke BEYOND ALL RECOGNITION to the point where no one EVER uses it…

same goes for reworked skills – a terrible kittening skill that wastes a utility slot remains a terrible kittening skill that wastes a utility slot wether its on 30 or 40 second cd doesnt kittening matter

Honestly very very very bad

Also still no dedicaded soloQ makes me very sad
The thought about being able to soloQ is the only thing that keeps me playing at this point <_>

EDIT: lolze somewhat wrong thread

Vena.8436:

Poxxia.1547:

Huhm … so instead of using the well-functioning mechanics from GW1.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enduring_Toxin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear

Those are about… five years old now?

And the newer variants:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winter's_Embrace
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains

Ah .. you caught me there
Thing is: I never really played Sin much (so I can’t say if those were viable), but I completely forgot abt Weaken Knees (played necro a bit). And I didn’t play eotn. But … I can’t even recall weaken knees being used that much; as I recall the few options necro’s had weren’t with that elite.

Anyway, I still recall how badly it was implemented in Warhammer, and I sure hope they know what they are doing. Why I stated “building on what they had” is due to how far away fx. shutdown-classes are from what they were in GW1. Take a thing like confusion and compare to what we had … in general the whole specialization (or the lack of it) and compare to GW1. Yes, it is a different game, but why not finish things like confusion and make it an alternative to fire instead of adding new ones, with new problems (and don’t get me started on who they gave it to … )

Oidmetala.8426:

höh, whats with underwater buffs for rangers
i hope hard that i will get some underwater buffs!!!

this new conditions sounds like a big fail…
but lets see

oh and burning on necro :P
maybe i should play necro in future…
burning ppls with fear, sounds funny

do necro have this new condition too? :P
if yes => burning ppls with fear which get dmg because they RUN in fear and burn

If the leaked patch notes are true then they put burning at GM in the power trait line. So people wont even run it. If you are going into the power line that far then there is no reason not the take the 20% extra damage trait. Interestingly the engi gets the same trait at adept. :S

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wow.. Epic fail? Because of two classes getting a new condition that we know barely anything about or how they’ll be able to apply? What about the fact that they also mentioned that some builds are getting nerfed? Or that nearly every class is getting some skill/trait tweaks?

Seriously… Its like any new thing that gets released/mentioned someone is going to cry about because it wasn’t specifically what they wanted.

not epic fail because of the new condition , but i smell bad balancing changes for every class in general + the fact that there is still no solo vs solo Tpvp signup and premade vs premade Tpvp signup and no solo leaderboard rankings.

they can also make a 2vs2 Tpvp signup aswell , so people can play atleast with 1 friend tpvp when the whole team is not online.

Have to wait and see. It is difficult to be optimistic, especially with the “leaked” notes out there which are pretty clearly terri-bad implementation.

We shall see soon enough.

These are the two abilities that’ll feature the new condition (along with DS skill 5)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Counter
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom

As a person with a Mesmer main, I’m still against giving Mesmers and Thieves more buffs, especially this new condition. In fact, I’m against this kind of condition in principle.

That being said, I do think the best way to implement this bad condition would be the way it is suggested for Mesmers in the “?patch notes?” – as a proc from a reactive ability. Torment supposedly will proc only if you hit the Mesmer while he is blocking, otherwise – no torment.

I could see this working very nicely in the exact same way for warriors – blocks proc torment. Would be decent.

A few good changes….
—-I like the new necro #5. It’s based on a situational/timing concept, which is a great change. Maybe cutting the imob to 1/2->3/4 sec, that with a 2~ sec daze tagged on would have been better, but ehh improvement is improvement.

I like the tweak to the ranger axe, so it pulls, too bad they left axe #5 as utter garbage.
Warriors might get a few more viable specs with all the condi hate introduced.
—-Weakness is a useless change
Still the useless condition it has always been… now just worse at covering other condi’s because of all the nerfed durations…
Reducing crit dmg/chance would have been far better.
—-Crip/chill are still unaddressed, there is no finesse to movement impairment, the movement reduction is extreme, just like that amount of cleansing in the game… it makes awkward cleanse centric play.
Making a new condition doesn’t help that in the slightest.
—-Boons are still in a bad spot, and seemingly going to stay that way… grouping all of them up into one category of ‘boons’ and making ‘boon hate’ randomly remove one or 2 of the boons… is just kittened… again, no finesses, you just have to blunt force or pray…
—-CC is still in as bad of a place as ever... you still need stun breaks and/or tons of endurance regen.

Those things are crippling issue that not only beat up on gameplay but will leave soooooo many specs simply as ‘not viable’.
The game seems on the track to being decent, dunno if it will ever be good though.

Poxxia.1547:

Anyway, I still recall how badly it was implemented in Warhammer, and I sure hope they know what they are doing. Why I stated “building on what they had” is due to how far away fx. shutdown-classes are from what they were in GW1. Take a thing like confusion and compare to what we had … in general the whole specialization (or the lack of it) and compare to GW1. Yes, it is a different game, but why not finish things like confusion and make it an alternative to fire instead of adding new ones, with new problems (and don’t get me started on who they gave it to … )

Warhammer was a different (terribly designed beast) akittens core. The mechanics of torment are established as far as GW1 goes, and while you may not have seen them used (and generally weren’t used in the competitive scene) they were never the less aspects of certain PvP-variant builds for the less “pro” formats. Moreover, GW1 had many “on movement” punishing skills which this game actually somewhat lacks; torment is a way to fill in the movement punishment gap. It also suits the necro well as they were (at least going back to how they were described in beta) someone who was hard to run away from.

The limited application of the skill, tying it to a rarely used venom, situational counter skill, and only DS#5, draws sort of to the limited nature that Disease had in GW1. It’d be rather hard (and at this point redundant) to add Disease to this game since conditions are easily (and often) AoE applied and you’d have to many dots.

garethh.3518:

Boons are still in a bad spot, and seemingly going to stay that way… grouping all of them up into one category of ‘boons’ and making ‘boon hate’ randomly remove one or 2 of the boons… is just kittened… again, no finesses, you just have to blunt force or pray…

Strange thing to mention, but I’m pretty sure the “strip two boons” variants aren’t random at all. They remove the top most layers. Actually I don’t think any of them are random.

When thieves and mesmers get Torment GW2 will have truly surpassed Warhammer Online in terms of crap.

Vena.8436:

Poxxia.1547:

Anyway, I still recall how badly it was implemented in Warhammer, and I sure hope they know what they are doing. Why I stated “building on what they had” is due to how far away fx. shutdown-classes are from what they were in GW1. Take a thing like confusion and compare to what we had … in general the whole specialization (or the lack of it) and compare to GW1. Yes, it is a different game, but why not finish things like confusion and make it an alternative to fire instead of adding new ones, with new problems (and don’t get me started on who they gave it to … )

Warhammer was a different (terribly designed beast) akittens core. The mechanics of torment are established as far as GW1 goes, and while you may not have seen them used (and generally weren’t used in the competitive scene) they were never the less aspects of certain PvP-variant builds for the less “pro” formats. Moreover, GW1 had many “on movement” punishing skills which this game actually somewhat lacks; torment is a way to fill in the movement punishment gap. It also suits the necro well as they were (at least going back to how they were described in beta) someone who was hard to run away from.

The limited application of the skill, tying it to a rarely used venom, situational counter skill, and only DS#5, draws sort of to the limited nature that Disease had in GW1. It’d be rather hard (and at this point redundant) to add Disease to this game since conditions are easily (and often) AoE applied and you’d have to many dots.
.

Forget WAR, and yes: the connection (albeit insignificant?) is established. Is that a green light to IWAY as well? That was far more used that those spells as I recall.

Ok .. let me try it this way, since you are apparently hooked on this condition being harmless or even beneficial: So many things were out in GW1, that are not here. But some of the things that worked really well are only half implemented in a poor way (imo), and instead of implementing it fully we move on to a “new thing”. You may find that to be ok .. I don’t. Take mesmers in general … and confusion. Do you recall that effect? How well do you find that working in this game? I don’t know about you, but I can see that skill (if being more potent) solving many of the situations that Torment is supposed to cover (or I assume so). Hence it would imho be more optimal to work on that before including a new one, that will have an overlap.

There is nothing limited about Torment, if it is tied to venom-share in my world, and venomshare turns out to be viable (that is your subjective opinion). Oh ofc if you are uncoordinated, but that is really irrelevant isn’t it? It might be a rarely used venom now, but that is not connected to complex changes in the future. It might indicate a change, but to give an entirely new condition … it is a different matter.

The description, you say … according to that engines use turrets to control an area … just to take the first I bumped into. The way classes have been described be that in beta or in general as a justification of how they work and what they should have …. haven’t we by now moved beyond that?

We seem to disagree on this. You find it timely, I find they should fix the classes/maps and most prominently fix confusion (and perhaps weakness as well) before implementing new conditions. And I don’t find it to be a nice aspect to give it to the classes with some of the highest mobility (I could at least make sense of it, if it was tied to Warriors and Guardians) … and worst of all, I dislike, that it is tied to a venom and prone to venom-share. You are ok with these things .. I am not. Fine … we disagree. Including all sorts of mechanisms from GW1 (which were quite frankly a lot; a lot more, than we can bring up here) doesn’t make everything a good choice. I am of the opinion however, that overlooking significant ones, that proved to work well, is a horrible choice. Again we seem to disagree. How come you btw are the one to judge, that disease is a dot too much, but apparently Torment is not (just think, if it worked in a less obvious way)?

PS: And despite this, I am not negative about the patch … I can’t be “just negative” when there are so many changes. It is really hard to predict how it will pan out. I am just not satisfied with the order things are being “fixed” (whatever that is).

PPS: We have opinions and attitudes, but that doesn’t mean, that we are “right” regarding these. We most likely all make that mistake, but some at least do an attempt to avoid that pitfall. Framing topics according to our subjective definition doesn’t really serve as ground for anything constructive.

Poxxia.1547:

Ok .. let me try it this way, since you are apparently hooked on this condition being harmless or even beneficial: So many things were out in GW1, that are not here. But some of the things that worked really well are only half implemented in a poor way (imo), and instead of implementing it fully we move on to a “new thing”. You may find that to be ok .. I don’t. Take mesmers in general … and confusion. Do you recall that effect? How well do you find that working in this game? I don’t know about you, but I can see that skill (if being more potent) solving many of the situations that Torment is supposed to cover (or I assume so). Hence it would imho be more optimal to work on that before including a new one, that will have an overlap.

I am not hooked on it being harmless or beneficial, I am looking at things based on how they stand at the moment and that is that condition specs for the two classes in question are: bad. Adding a single condition, to two very limited and situation skills no less, isn’t exactly terrifying when looked at plainly.

Poxxia.1547:

There is nothing limited about Torment, if it is tied to venom-share in my world, and venomshare turns out to be viable (that is your subjective opinion). Oh ofc if you are uncoordinated, but that is really irrelevant isn’t it? It might be a rarely used venom now, but that is not connected to complex changes in the future. It might indicate a change, but to give an entirely new condition … it is a different matter.

How is it not limited? kitten cd → 15s duration (at best) on one skill is the very definition of “limited”. Fact of the matter is that in the real world no one uses venom share or venoms because (a.) they are bad, (b.) thieves have bad condition specs. If this actually makes venom share viable, how is that a bad thing?

Vena.8436:

How is it not limited? kitten cd -> 15s duration (at best) on one skill is the very definition of “limited”. Fact of the matter is that in the real world no one uses venom share or venoms because (a.) they are bad, (b.) thieves have bad condition specs. If this actually makes venom share viable, how is that a bad thing?

Uhm … what part of my elaboration was unclear? Your definition is not the same as mine, so hence it can’t be limited per definition (seriously … weird way to argue … can’t you see how wrong that way to frame things is?).
In my definition it isn’t “limited use”, if it is free to share for every one, even if only 3 classes can apply it and only 1 can share it. You see limitations in the time-frame, I see the unlimited use if it is applied by several players on the same target, due to 1 venom-share. We are comparing apples and oranges here, I believe?

I have NO issues with condition-speccs for mesmers and thieves getting a buff … they are among the least used. Thieves have 2 viable speccs right now with a couple of variations. None of these are bad. It is more than other classes but not a horrible lot, and I would welcome a venom-share build. But fixing confusion and weakness comes first; why add another condition, when you have 2 that already could work? From a scientific viewpoint (which I can claim to have), I can’t make sense out of that; it is just adding to the confusion (no, not talking about the condition here). Even more: Imho: That/this exact aspect doesn’t belong on 2 of the most mobile classes (and I think I am not alone with that opinion). Again: I have written this before, but I can repeat myself as many times as you want, if you continue ignoring parts of what I write

Adding a single condition is not harmless, if that condition is not harmless itself (all other things being equal).

You do casually nitpick parts of my post, and completely ignore parts of what I write and the questions I ask; what a polite/constructive way to argue

PS: We could just pm each other … could turn out to be more constructive than this at least.