Pay 2 just stop already...
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
GW2 is buy to play though. Once u buy HoT u are on par. Same way free accounts are on par when they buy the base game (HoT).
Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
No, thats a copout and rather lame extension of fact.
Pay to win requires you to buy something within the game, such as the TP or other outside of the cost of the game… having the current version of the game does not meet that definition.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
Would you guys stop spamming that if we say… ok you are right and move on with our lives knowing the real meaning of the p2w expression?
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
Would you guys stop spamming that if we say… ok you are right and move on with our lives knowing the real meaning of the p2w expression?
No… they won’t
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Viable specs pre HOT? U are dellueding yourself OP. I hate it when people spread lies around here. Even if they were viable pre HOT builds which are pretty much non- existent u pretty much have to be extremely Lucky to find them, And even be luckier to use them. U are splitting hairs here. Just because what is happening here deviates slightly ‘’from the orginal’’ defination doesn’t make this bullkitten any less Pay 2 win.
Pre HOT viable specs, pfft give me a break. It’s akin to finding a needle in a haystack. The pre hot specs can potentially beat HOT specs in 1 v 1 But they offer kitten all in a team fight. They are very selfish at the moment.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
No it’s not.
Pay2win is a specific term for a monetization scheme used by some free2play games based around micro transactions giving power boosts.
Heart of Thorns is buy2play, which is a totally different monetization scheme where players are expected to buy the game. You have to buy HoT to compete in HoT.
Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube
YouTube
People are mad that the elite professions are better and they don’t want to dish out the money for the expansion. So they use their ignorance and biase to come up with the p2w crap.
Anyone can see this is not p2w, except the ignorant biased people. Just better to ignore those people as they are detmermined to live in ignorance.
People are mad that the elite professions are better and they don’t want to dish out the money for the expansion. So they use their ignorance and biase to come up with the p2w crap.
Anyone can see this is not p2w, except the ignorant biased people. Just better to ignore those people as they are detmermined to live in ignorance.
how would it not be p2w since every hot meta pwns core meta? and it costs 50dollar to obtain that privilige, thus p2w.
Personally idc since i already have hot, but in terms of esports, the game shouldn’t be p2w. I will stop claiming this unless anet stop esports anymore and focus on being mmorpg tho.
The Korean Gamer (Best Warrior NA)
My Stream : http://www.twitch.tv/eSportsKorea see me vs Tarcis, Chaith, Crysis and etc!
My Stream : http://www.twitch.tv/eSportsKorea see me vs Tarcis, Chaith, Crysis and etc!
People are mad that the elite professions are better and they don’t want to dish out the money for the expansion. So they use their ignorance and biase to come up with the p2w crap.
Anyone can see this is not p2w, except the ignorant biased people. Just better to ignore those people as they are detmermined to live in ignorance.
how would it not be p2w since every hot meta pwns core meta? and it costs 50dollar to obtain that privilige, thus p2w.
Personally idc since i already have hot, but in terms of esports, the game shouldn’t be p2w. I will stop claiming this unless anet stop esports anymore and focus on being mmorpg tho.
That is not the definition of p2w. As explained multiple times. You can call it that if you like but it’s not what a p2w model is. Common sense says paying money for a better class is p2w. But that is not what p2w actually means. Common sense does not always lead you to the right answer. That’s why I am saying you are ignorant. Usually ignorance is easily fixed with some education but since you are also biased we won’t get anywhere. If you can overcome your ignorance and biase you’d see it is not p2w. But I have learned it’s a waste of time to help people overcome their biases on the Internet.
(edited by Andraus.3874)
This is really just a big fiasco of semantics. If you must pay $50 to be competitive, and in ranked you do, you must pay to win. Whether or not its as underhanded as the classical meaning of the term p2w IE. microtransactions, is beside the point. You must pay to be the best.
The new specs are overpowered. They don’t even fit in with the other traitlines. You have a series of traits as such:
Justice
Virtues
Zeal
Honor
then…. Dragonhunter? wtf?
Fire
Air
Water
Arcana
Tempest?
These are nominally out of place. The very names of the specs suggest that they’re overpowered and you can count that the meta will always sway toward these specs.
After going F2P I suppose there has to be some sort of “gotcha” gimmick.
People are mad that the elite professions are better and they don’t want to dish out the money for the expansion. So they use their ignorance and biase to come up with the p2w crap.
Anyone can see this is not p2w, except the ignorant biased people. Just better to ignore those people as they are detmermined to live in ignorance.
how would it not be p2w since every hot meta pwns core meta? and it costs 50dollar to obtain that privilige, thus p2w.
Personally idc since i already have hot, but in terms of esports, the game shouldn’t be p2w. I will stop claiming this unless anet stop esports anymore and focus on being mmorpg tho.
That is not the definition of p2w. As explained multiple times. You can call it that if you like but it’s not what a p2w model is. Common sense says paying money for a better class is p2w. But that is not what p2w actually means. Common sense does not always lead you to the right answer. That’s why I am saying you are ignorant. Usually ignorance is easily fixed with some education but since you are also biased we won’t get anywhere. If you can overcome your ignorance and biase you’d see it is not p2w. But I have learned it’s a waste of time to help people overcome their biases on the Internet.
I think you just have no idea how to distinguish similar thing that are just placed in a little bit different manner, or try to force yourself not believing the fact. Just assume if you were f2p user who loses lot due to not having new elite stuffs, which is OPer, thus have internal conflict between buying the game or not, to overcome the circumstance. It is similar to buying new gear to win.
In both cases, the fact that they need to spend money to get stronger doesn’t change.
The Korean Gamer (Best Warrior NA)
My Stream : http://www.twitch.tv/eSportsKorea see me vs Tarcis, Chaith, Crysis and etc!
My Stream : http://www.twitch.tv/eSportsKorea see me vs Tarcis, Chaith, Crysis and etc!
(edited by online.1278)
People have been able to do well with core builds. Unless you’re competing at the highest level of team play you will be ok. Until then, don’t be a dip and blame it on the expansion.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
No, thats a copout and rather lame extension of fact.
Pay to win requires you to buy something within the game, such as the TP or other outside of the cost of the game… having the current version of the game does not meet that definition.
This is too funny. Do you Win By Paying For HOT? YES!!
Are you gonna be the genius who tries to say Paying so I can WIN is not the same things as Pay To WIN? Please, delineate those statements.
3-4 threads today trying to blame current issues on pay to win and im convinced that there is a huge misconception as to what that actually means.
Pay to win implies that you must buy some gear or other item to compete, this is not the case in GW2, period. Even if you assume that you must have HoT specs to compete, which is highly debatable after the patch, that still doesn’t require you to buy anything other than the actual current version of the game.
Having the most up to date version of the game isnt pay to win, its common sense. No game has ever balanced any game to allow for every spec in its history. New classes and specs always change things.
Oh and there are viable specs from pre HoT, they may not be meta, but they are certainly viable. In fact you could argue that the most recent patch made that even more true with some old specs getting talked about again that may or may not require HoT trees to work.
Bottom line, can we please just dispense with the P2W nonsense now… please.
You are a classic niche MMORPG players. This game type is dying. The new generation is about MOBA. It’s more than 10 times popular and played around the world.
This game category is still growing strong numbers (passed the 100 millions of players).
The next 10 years will get the golden era of gaming and will destroy any Wow numbers. Major game like Streetfighters V is coming with competitive MOBA mindset, like hundred others that are in development right now.
We are going strong for 100 millions of players.
Anet would be dumb to ignore that.
This is explain it with a different twist:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model
MMORPG players got biased based on their own niche.
You can’t compete with sPVP if you don’t cater to MOBA business model.
20 millions MMORPG players around the world is a niche compare to MOBA having 100+ millions of players.
Please suscribe to the thread i did link, do your +1 and continue to promote the sPVP split to MMORPG to be really an Esport over the MOBA scene.
Gw2 will create way more momentum that way, because his MMO will market to MOBA players… so way more people that you can lure in that group (MOBA) than the other group (MMORPG).
We have the NEXT GEN MOBA right there and we are killing it for MMORPG players that have misconceived opinions about B2W and a dying business model.
Dal
Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/
People have been able to do well with core builds. Unless you’re competing at the highest level of team play you will be ok. Until then, don’t be a dip and blame it on the expansion.
nope. Not even true. You can realize OP level difference at even community level of dueling arena.
The Korean Gamer (Best Warrior NA)
My Stream : http://www.twitch.tv/eSportsKorea see me vs Tarcis, Chaith, Crysis and etc!
My Stream : http://www.twitch.tv/eSportsKorea see me vs Tarcis, Chaith, Crysis and etc!
People have been able to do well with core builds. Unless you’re competing at the highest level of team play you will be ok. Until then, don’t be a dip and blame it on the expansion.
nope. Not even true. You can realize OP level difference at even community level of dueling arena.
Rofl…what do you mean nope not true? I, as well as others, have had no problem doing it. Sorry if you can’t make it work.
The only reason I bought the expansion was to keep up with Elite specializations in PvP, aka P2W.
Elite: A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.
Stop comparing it to other games, otherwise I could kill 40 people and say “I’m not a murderer compared to Hitlar”, the fact is, you’re still a serial killer.
It’s also perspective too, a player who owned the core game before HoT, has to pay to win, or if you like, pay to keep up with those who paid too as opposed to a new player who only needs to just buy the game.
Older players had to spend $110 to be on par with new players who only have to spend $50.
I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.
….. And Elementalist.
If you want play gw2 – you need buy game!
G2 BUY to play! free only core game for new player. sPvP not for new player.
You want us to have to create another acronym? BETW?
Buy Expansion To Win? ROFL I’m sorry if some of us weren’t foolish enough to
unload money into cash shop to compete like in other games. Just because that is heinous, doesn’t mean GW2 is completely removed from the concept. Open your minds. Think about the English meaning of the words PAY TO WIN.
Buy Expansion To Win = Pay To Win.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
No it’s not.
Pay2win is a specific term for a monetization scheme used by some free2play games based around micro transactions giving power boosts.Heart of Thorns is buy2play, which is a totally different monetization scheme where players are expected to buy the game. You have to buy HoT to compete in HoT.
http://game-wisdom.com/critical/defining-pay-to-win
Since you want to quote stuff. Before I get into this, I own HoT. So I don’t care. BUT.
The Elite specs are considered downloadable content (dlc) that is locked behind a pay wall. You cannot access these specs without paying for them. However, you can play the entire game without them (minus HoT zones). This is by and large, considered something you would BUY. Buy and Pay are synonymous terms. So we have that HoT specs are buyable/payable to acquire.
Are they stronger then base specs, excluding player skill? Are they stronger than other classes base specs?
Dragonhunter to Guardian is much much stronger. Support is a good 2.5 seconds of just pure daze, damage is astronomical, control is just stupid. This class pulls a Darius and denies melee specs without immense tankiness engage opportunities becase you spend the whole time DAZED. And stunned. Reaper to Necro is flavor, but for condi Reaper adds a lot of damage from chill. For power, the shouts are potent and contain lots of effects. To others, it becomes an unstoppable 1v1 force. You can Rampage a Reaper, and it won’t care. Not even a little. It’ll fight you in Reaper Shroud, and PROBABLY win. An elite ability dies to a class mechanic. Scrapper fulfills bruiser fantasies, makes Engineer look very bad. Scrapper reflects, blocks, evades, and controls constantly. Needless to say, rangers cry. Druid on the other hand will never die because it can continue to heal forever. The best Druid spec is Beastmaster healtank- heal pet, let it kill. Ranger can’t compete with this even a little, even if using the same weapons. Also almost no cast time aoe control abilities, so again its a melee denier. I could go on, but for the most part in an objective view these elite specs are far stronger and provide clear hard counters.
So yes. It sucks. But it is pay to win. These elite specs are BETTER than their base. Why pick Acro when you can get DD? Why pick Spite for condi now, when you can get Reaper? Why bother even glancing at Arcane when you can get Tempest (though this one no longer applies quite as hard, its still valid)?
tl;dr- Read it, or admit you’re just being a stubborn fanboy. This game is officially pay to win. They can’t nerf the shiny toys until sales finally peak, but they could make a hefty start by removing the requirement that equipping the elite spec is the only way to get new utilities and weapons. Just my opinion. I never take Elite specs because they are fun anymore, but because I need something from them. Usually not traits either, but thats because I’m stubborn.
Worst Thief in the world, yes I am.
what is all this talk about buy to play? the game is FREE to play, and PAY to win, meaning paying money for the more powerful toons. Stop deluding yourselves. Anet sold out and drove alot of players from wvw and pvp, not only because they didn’t want to pay to win and feel they are getting owned more, but because they felt betrayed and lied to. They feel anet sold out and no longer cares about pvp balance and e-sport viability so they moved on.
As to why the moba games are the only popular games on pc nowadays, I’m not so sure its all because of better devs and game balance, as much as it is because of better communities that actually encourage competitive matchmaking (instead of undermining it), and actually respects “e-sports” as much as professional athletic sports. I think that is the biggest difference.
(edited by CooloutAC.3451)
You are a classic niche MMORPG players. This game type is dying. The new generation is about MOBA. It’s more than 10 times popular and played around the world.
This game category is still growing strong numbers (passed the 100 millions of players).
The next 10 years will get the golden era of gaming and will destroy any Wow numbers. Major game like Streetfighters V is coming with competitive MOBA mindset, like hundred others that are in development right now.
We are going strong for 100 millions of players.
Anet would be dumb to ignore that.
This is explain it with a different twist:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-modelMMORPG players got biased based on their own niche.
You can’t compete with sPVP if you don’t cater to MOBA business model.
20 millions MMORPG players around the world is a niche compare to MOBA having 100+ millions of players.Please suscribe to the thread i did link, do your +1 and continue to promote the sPVP split to MMORPG to be really an Esport over the MOBA scene.
Gw2 will create way more momentum that way, because his MMO will market to MOBA players… so way more people that you can lure in that group (MOBA) than the other group (MMORPG).
We have the NEXT GEN MOBA right there and we are killing it for MMORPG players that have misconceived opinions about B2W and a dying business model.
Dal
Bold predictions, well see, but in any event as we sit here today this is not a MOBA… and if it was i would not be here as i find them mindlessly dull.
Is MOBA style gaming the future, not exactly hard to predict that as likely but im not sure what that says about the new generation of gamers and their attention spans. Every game styles has been dumbed down tremendously taking only a few hours to beat.
You think they shouldn’t ignore it, well duh, they havent, look around… Overwatch, Heroes of the storm, Blade and Soul, Battlefront, etc… non of which have anything to do with their MMO counterparts. All games put out by the same companies that have MMO genre games as well. One has nothing whatever to do with the other.
The classic MMO isnt for everyone.. never was. Some of us like the stories, the time invested, the lore, and many other things that a MOBA cares virtually nothing about. If all you want is to log in be max level and pew… then you should be playing a MOBA, not an MMO, but trying to compare the two is kinda pointless.
Oh, and for the record, MOBA arent exactly free of things like P2W and balance issues so…
So being locked out of entire trait lines AND WEAPONS (you forgot the part where elites also give you access to, in some cases, stronger weapons for that class) isn’t pay to win.
Sound logic there, OP.
Edit: Trying to excuse HoT as not a form of P2W and then bringing up mobas is a veeeery bad (and incorrect) example. DOTA requires literally no purchases (everything is cosmetic, good ole valve). LoL does allow you to purchase champs with money, but those can be acquired for free AND don’t require that ridiculous of a grind either (if you aren’t on a ridiculious losing streak, that is). You can argue balance issues, but players at the very least, have options to deal with their counters. How does an ele fight a reaper? They don’t. How did pre-nerf warrior fight anything meta? They didn’t. How do non-druid rangers 1v1 anything? They don’t.
In league (since I have some experience there), there is no foolproof build or champion. Some are definitely strong in certain situations, but if you have enough knowledge, you can turn terrible matchups into something manageable. Dr. Mundo is a good example of this. Huge lane bully with a metric fkton of sustain. Hard to CC him late game and even harder to outright kill him. He also has a low CD poke that deals a %of the target’s missing health. All painful stuff. How do teams deal with him (assuming he wasn’t banned outright during the draft)? Quite simple. Either you pick another champion with good sustain (Nasus loves Mundo) and out scale the ever loving crap out of him by passively farming and lane manipulation or have your jungler pull off one or two ganks and simply snowball from there. If none of this works, you can always keep the feeding to a minimum and stall him (can be achieved with a split pusher) by making it impossible for him to roam. If he roams and you’re playing a powerful split pusher, simply steamroll your lane. Assuming your jungler completely ignored you and left you to rot, he should’ve been creating an imbalance elsewhere meaning Mundo would simply run into either a fed ADC (vayne is very good against HP tanks) or a fed assassin both of whom are capable of outright annihilating him 1v1 or simply forcing him away from the fight repeatedly.
All of these options vs what is currently the strongest champion in the game. Can you honestly try to compare mobas to this mess?
(edited by SlayerSixx.5763)
The expansion is not pay2win equally as if ANet puts +20000 power sword of one-shot in the cash shop is not pay2win.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
Drop your Elite Spec and play PvP without them then, I dare you.
If you’re not running the Elite Spec, you’re not relevant and it’s a handicap. Not to mention it’s one of the most anti-fun experiences you can do in this game.
The definition of pay-to-win is that if you pay for something related to a game it gets you either a competitive or strategic advantage.
If you pay for HoT, you get access to an elite specialization, skills and weapons that people who didn’t pay for it don’t get. That in-and-of itself is a competitive and strategic advantage. So yes, it is considered pay to win and you will lose more games to people who do own HoT because the elite specs are so good. That’s why people run them 100% of the time.
§ky
This sort of mindset is new; something thats spawned from how weak minded our current generation is, how protected and coddled they are, never allowed to feel a negative emotion and given trophies for turning up regardless of effort.
I remember when Cantha was released, not a peep about “P2W,” sure people were shocked at how Soul Reaping with Spirits broke the game but never did I see someone saying “I didn’t buy the new expansion why am I less powerful?!”
I realised there has always been this way in thinking but how did they become the majority? You used to ridicule the nonsense they’d say but they swarm, notice how they are saying “P2W” because everyone finds that awful (but it doesn’t apply here), in the same way that terrible people use the word “racist” or “sexist” to describe things that aren’t in order to paint the issue with words which prevent true discussion (completely devaluing those very important words in the process, which is shameful). Using “P2W” deliberately to paint an expansion as something bad.
This mindset of “I am special and must always be so regardless of what I do or do not do” is distressing and you see it creeping into everything, I watched Question Time tonight and an audience member said the Prime Minister “continues to incite hatred and prejudice” because he used the phrase “bunch of migrants” (refering to Jez’s photo op earlier in the week at Calais). Its infecting everything, paint the issue with words like “hatred” and “prejudice” so no one can be on the other side. Just like painting an expansion with “P2W” – ‘how could you even try to defend P2W’ is exactly the situation they want to create.
Shame..
P2W, just so you know is a system that allows you to spend ever higher amounts of real life cash to gain advantage in game that is proportional to the money spent. This CANNOT apply to GW2 HoT because if you spend £1000 or £35 the benefit stays the same.
Buy the expansion, its £35 (this is where they will bring up how poor people are being disadvantaged, I saved up £1 a week from the announcement of HoT and bought it that way so their argument is nonsense but all that matters is they paint me as someone who hates the poor – ofc now I’ve pre-empted it they will probably go for “paranoid” instead, I figured better that than “poor hater” but time will tell).
Listen, unless you can bring up an official definition by a trusted organization, using your definition of P2W is about as valid as anyone else’s. Pay to win means paying for something that allows you to win. You can win with core specs, sure, but not against an opponent of equal skill using an elite spec. You can bleat on about how us youngins need to tighten our bootstraps and march forever onwards just because you did it in the past, but that doesn’t mean that times don’t change. The fact of the matter is that the complainers are people who still love/like the game and don’t want to feel forced to shell out dollars to compete in NORMAL parts of the game. It isn’t as if elites only exist in the “e-sports” realm. If this was the case, nobody could argue since every major sport requires some sort of purchase to participate (buying equipment, renting practice spaces, etc). Unfortunately, to enjoy the game at its base requires a purchase which is offputting for many people, F2P and game veterans alike. If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
(edited by Coulter.2315)
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
You will do a tl;dr. I will not watch that video because it is too long.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
It is what it is. Unless you want to assign a fixed price point that decides when games become P2W, then it’ll essentially make every DLC/xpac that provides noticeable bonuses to the paying user vs a user without that P2W.
Also, please don’t bring up BFH. I played that game for 3 years and it hurt my soul what EA did to such a golden game. Hell, I dreamt that another company took the rights to the game and relaunched it back into its glory days, then I woke up and cried.
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
You will do a tl;dr. I will not watch that video because it is too long.
He’s actually a very good speaker, its pretty entertaining while enlightening.
Basicly they have a system where you rent weapons, they forced you after the change to pay2win to be incapable of renting for free but only through purchases AND introduced BETTER versions of the rentable weapons through real money purchases.
This generated thousands of forum posts and media complaints, emails to staff including “I hope you’re happy ruining our game,” “I’m leaving this game,” “you’ve ruined children’s Christmas” etc.
The outcome of this was most fascinating though.
The Forum posters accounted for 2% of the player base, spent 10x the average user and the complaining posters and emailers were active users a year later and became spending players.
The total player base stayed steady with no noticable numbers leaving the game, zero effect on registration or leaving rates.
The revenue per month doubled.
GW2 does not rent you HoT and require you to turn into a subscriber to continually generate your advantage, its still buy to play. This is totally different to renting through real money to generate a monthly subscription by pay2win.
Fun extra learned from Korea, “do not allow your players to know when they are beaten by a pay2win item.”
Utterly fascinating though that despite complaints and outrage that people just keep playing regardless. It took the threat of the devs losing their jobs to change to pay2win and they make the argument that in sport people accept pay2win and it seems to translate (in behaviour maybe not discussion forums) to games too.
Very interesting, though you do sit listening and think “omg business is evil xD”
Good talk though (I realise this wasn’t a very small TL;DR)
(edited by Coulter.2315)
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
Omg guys, FFXIV has a subscription fee! PAY TO WIN! No pay, no win!
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
It is what it is. Unless you want to assign a fixed price point that decides when games become P2W, then it’ll essentially make every DLC/xpac that provides noticeable bonuses to the paying user vs a user without that P2W.
Also, please don’t bring up BFH. I played that game for 3 years and it hurt my soul what EA did to such a golden game. Hell, I dreamt that another company took the rights to the game and relaunched it back into its glory days, then I woke up and cried.
HoT isn’t giving you tear dreams though, its just an expansion pack. It doesn’t make you into a monthly subscriber to keep an advantage or let you spend ludicrous amounts of money to generate massive advantages (Diablo 3 money store would be an example of that).
Are some of you guys actually serious? Have you not played other MMO’s or games with expansions this generation? Of course “IF YOU WANT” to remain current in any game, you have to get the expansion so you can experience the new content and features, while also keeping the game alive long enough to continue to enjoy the content (with no monthly fee) And thats only if you wanna “CONTINUE NEW STUFF.”
This isn’t Call of duty where you only buy the core game and play the same 8 maps over and over again but get excluded from the extra 3 maps in the DLC. This is an mmo. Normally, when an expansion comes out they raise the level cap and add new abilities. And, the only way to get those new abilities and level cap is to BUY the expansion or get left behide.
I don’t see how this is a surprise to anyone. ANet themselves have been advertising these elite specs for MONTHS. Thats why they are called “ELITE.” It’s also promised that more “ELITE” specs are planned to come out. Call it pay to win if you want, but unless your brand new to the game, having to put the new elite specs into your build was an absolute given.
This also applied to GW1. YOU NEEDED the new skills to REMAIN relevant.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
Try non-reaper necro.
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
It is what it is. Unless you want to assign a fixed price point that decides when games become P2W, then it’ll essentially make every DLC/xpac that provides noticeable bonuses to the paying user vs a user without that P2W.
Also, please don’t bring up BFH. I played that game for 3 years and it hurt my soul what EA did to such a golden game. Hell, I dreamt that another company took the rights to the game and relaunched it back into its glory days, then I woke up and cried.
HoT isn’t giving you tear dreams though, its just an expansion pack. It doesn’t make you into a monthly subscriber to keep an advantage or let you spend ludicrous amounts of money to generate massive advantages (Diablo 3 money store would be an example of that).
That video was very informative and confirms alot of what I believed. I will favourite it and come back to it a few times.
Let me tell you a little about BFH. BFH didn’t require for you to pay tons of cash to compete. One really special loadout for me was my soldier’s loadout. BFH has three classes. You had the heavy and slow gunner that generally dominated close quarter engagements. There was also the commando, a squishy, stealthy assassin type that either excelled at super long range with rifles or lick-your-back melee range with their knives. Then you had soldiers who basically worked best at mid range and had very little defense against vehicles. With a very specific loadout, soldier could dominate close quarters like a gunner, dominate super long range and super close range like a commando, AND reliably destroy vehicles. All of this coupled with soldier’s base abilities allowed me to simply carry vs almost entire teams of similarly skilled players with relative ease. I also forgot to mention that a weapon from this loadout also allowed me to scale entire buildings in a single blast of its alternate fire. All of this cost less than 20$ and was permanent. This is me paying for a ridiculous advantage for the price of what? 2-3 full meals depending on where you live. It doesn’t matter how much you pay. The fact that you’re paying for advantage is enough. ANet straight up lied when they called the elites side grades and you want to know something? I’m certain everyone knew that and didn’t care. I’m not complaining about why they added what they added. I’m just here to state that this is, indeed, pay to win.
No pay for HoT ==> no win.
That’s precisely P2W.
No it’s not.
Pay2win is a specific term for a monetization scheme used by some free2play games based around micro transactions giving power boosts.Heart of Thorns is buy2play, which is a totally different monetization scheme where players are expected to buy the game. You have to buy HoT to compete in HoT.
Fine. Make it buy2win then. Happy now?
Doesn’t change the fact that without HoT you are seriously disadvantaged in competitive play since the overpowered elites are unavailable to those who only paid for the core game.
Gutter Rat [cry] | Gandara | Roaming nuisance
~ There is no balance team. ~
~ There is no balance team. ~
If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.
I know.
Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).
Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.
Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.
It is what it is. Unless you want to assign a fixed price point that decides when games become P2W, then it’ll essentially make every DLC/xpac that provides noticeable bonuses to the paying user vs a user without that P2W.
Also, please don’t bring up BFH. I played that game for 3 years and it hurt my soul what EA did to such a golden game. Hell, I dreamt that another company took the rights to the game and relaunched it back into its glory days, then I woke up and cried.
HoT isn’t giving you tear dreams though, its just an expansion pack. It doesn’t make you into a monthly subscriber to keep an advantage or let you spend ludicrous amounts of money to generate massive advantages (Diablo 3 money store would be an example of that).
That video was very informative and confirms alot of what I believed. I will favourite it and come back to it a few times.
Let me tell you a little about BFH. BFH didn’t require for you to pay tons of cash to compete. One really special loadout for me was my soldier’s loadout. BFH has three classes. You had the heavy and slow gunner that generally dominated close quarter engagements. There was also the commando, a squishy, stealthy assassin type that either excelled at super long range with rifles or lick-your-back melee range with their knives. Then you had soldiers who basically worked best at mid range and had very little defense against vehicles. With a very specific loadout, soldier could dominate close quarters like a gunner, dominate super long range and super close range like a commando, AND reliably destroy vehicles. All of this coupled with soldier’s base abilities allowed me to simply carry vs almost entire teams of similarly skilled players with relative ease. I also forgot to mention that a weapon from this loadout also allowed me to scale entire buildings in a single blast of its alternate fire. All of this cost less than 20$ and was permanent. This is me paying for a ridiculous advantage for the price of what? 2-3 full meals depending on where you live. It doesn’t matter how much you pay. The fact that you’re paying for advantage is enough. ANet straight up lied when they called the elites side grades and you want to know something? I’m certain everyone knew that and didn’t care. I’m not complaining about why they added what they added. I’m just here to state that this is, indeed, pay to win.
Oh it was permanent to buy the BFH stuff? The video kinda looked like there was renting involved (never played the game so wasn’t sure).
Yer I enjoyed the video too, still don’t think its appropriate to call an expansion pay2win though (you would need to put a lot of games into that category and you cannot say the phrase “pay2win” doesn’t come with very clear implications and those do not apply to GW2 so it is a deliberate attempt to dirty the expansion – which was my original point).