Guild Wars 2

“We definitely believe people are going to love Stronghold,” says Corpening, “and we want to see what the reaction is to it. We definitely see this being the future of PvP for Guild Wars 2.”

Original Article: http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

Where have I seen something similar before…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-skyhammer-pvp-map/

“I think players are really going to respond well to Skyhammer.”

“Pretty much as soon as we threw this in for testing, our internal playtesters said, ‘This has to go on Live.’”

I know I am being overly negative here, and it is too early to make a proper judgement.

But claiming that this will be the next big thing, while in the same article claiming you can be a non-PvP player is kinda strange. It works, but is kinda strange.

Is this some super-casual moba-esque “you don’t have to fight people if you don’t want to” type of hand-holding gamemode? why would it be in sPvP? why not have it as its own separate thing? maybe in a same light as Kegbrawl…

i think it will be popular with the PvE players, and i am sure the PvP players will find it annoying. Maybe the people who have been begging for a GvG like mode might find it enjoyable.
its another lame attempt to make themselves esports relevant by banking on the popularity of MOBA games like LoL/DOTA.
i doubt tho it will be as poorly received as skyhammer

oneply.9586:

i think it will be popular with the PvE players, and i am sure the PvP players will find it annoying. Maybe the people who have been begging for a GvG like mode might find it enjoyable.
its another lame attempt to make themselves esports relevant by banking on the popularity of MOBA games like LoL/DOTA.
i doubt tho it will be as poorly received as skyhammer

Might be a good idea to avoid making swiping remarks until you play it. Things can sound good or bad on paper and turn out the opposite.

They tell a lot of things about the roles. NPCs alone won’t win you matches, you have to support them, and if you do that enemy players will obiously try to take you out as you get closer to their keep. Then there are the hero channels, those will give place for teamfights like lower buff on temple. Don’t forget the treb – you want to deal with it asap when it starts to rain fire, which creates an 1v1 scenario (or maybe more).

Some GW1 GvG tactics might make a comeback too like splitpushing. There’s plenty of place for PvP in this gamemode, but instead of capture points there are other reasons to engage in a fight.

Why would he come out and say anything different?!

I personally believe the game mode will thrive and do very well

PvE players will eat it up as they can be epic by controlling/protecting NPCs and raiding towers

WvW players will also come on over and it will take over GvG

Besides, what is the point of being skeptical and claiming it is going to be as kittenkyhammer (nothing can be that bad)

Bottom Line – PvP is as stale as 3 year old bread right now, it could frankly be a piece of crap game mode and it will still revitalize the game but it won’t be

EDIT – skyhammer is a bad word?

Narkodx.1472:

EDIT – skyhammer is a bad word?

you probably (not sure since it was censored) had ‘bad as’ followed by the ‘s’ in skyhammer, which the censor blocked. I think the censor ignores spaces.

OT, i really like the idea of stronghold and hope it is as good as it is being described.

Narkodx.1472:

EDIT – skyhammer is a bad word?

it should be

Narkodx.1472:

Bottom Line – PvP is as stale as 3 year old bread right now, it could frankly be a piece of crap game mode and it will still revitalize the game but it won’t be

With the care they’ve shown for the sPvP (updates bi-yearly and mostly consistent of tooltip fixes) the new gamemode will be as stale as sPvP in about two months, especially since the skill-requirement is promised to be lower. I honestly don’t know how much lower than dropping supply drop inside a circle you can go but by the sounds of it they are aiming to do it somehow.

Narkodx.1472:

WvW players will also come on over and it will take over GvG

People play GW2 style GvG so they can fight people instead of AI units on a control point. This new game mode seems to be even more about fighting AI units and even less about fighting other players so I doubt it will garner any interest from that specific sub-community. Maybe the average EOTM player will find some fun in it since the rewards can’t possibly be worse than in WvW

Why didn’t they just add 15v15 or 20v20 KOTH arena type gamemode to make GvG tournaments and such possible is beyond me. They could just copypaste obsidian sanctum and make the huge circle into a control point, bam, game mode of the year right there. Who knows, maybe that’s too much like something that actually works and doesn’t involve enough re-inventing of the wheel

Can’t know anything for certain yet but based on everything they’ve said so far it will still not be a PvP mode where the emphasis is on player versus player instead of some other arbitrary objective.

@Uuni.3561

If they didn’t care they wouldn’t be making a new mode or attempting to do all this world tournament stuff.

Unfortunately, guild wars 2 PvP is handicapped by the fact that it isn’t a f2p, so it creates a loop where they aren’t enough ppl to justify resources and at the same time because of the lack of resource people dont play it.

silvermember.8941:

@Uuni.3561

If they didn’t care they wouldn’t be making a new mode or attempting to do all this world tournament stuff.

Unfortunately, guild wars 2 PvP is handicapped by the fact that it isn’t a f2p, so it creates a loop where they aren’t enough ppl to justify resources and at the same time because of the lack of resource people dont play it.

I don’t think “justifying resources” is a problem now considering how they are throwing away 10,000s of $ evrery couple of months now at a WTS. Besides, GW1 had the same business model and PvP population wasn’t a problem. The lack of content is. Hopefully GvG will solve many of the current issues.

I’m actually really excited about this description. It seems that they are trying to highlight the importance of the actual combat, but there is a LOT of added depth too.

There is the high-level game of managing supply for offense/defense/treb.

There are the split objectives of heros, defense, treb, offense.

There is no capture-point, so the ability to bunker down and hold 1 point aren’t as necessary. This does make me concerned that ranged combat is going to dominate though.

There is also the need to get around, so things like mobility are still important.

I think this will bring out some new build and playstyles, but fear the same old culprits will dominate (especially thieves due to their insane mobility and no need to hold a point anymore).

silvermember.8941:

@Uuni.3561

If they didn’t care they wouldn’t be making a new mode or attempting to do all this world tournament stuff.

Unfortunately, guild wars 2 PvP is handicapped by the fact that it isn’t a f2p, so it creates a loop where they aren’t enough ppl to justify resources and at the same time because of the lack of resource people dont play it.

They are making plenty enough money from the gemstore to support the development. It doesn’t cost them any extra to do an official GvG arena for the hundreds of people that are already playing the gamemode without proper support. If anything it would attract more people to play it. Why not support something that’s already popular inside the game? Why try and re-invent the wheel by trying to appeal to players who aren’t interested in PvP with some and wacky innovative gamemode?

By world tournament you mean the sPvP tournament marketing thing where they tried to push the game as an esport even though it lacks pretty much all the things that make the currently popular esports so popular? The current top reigning esports like starcraft, LoL, dota and counterstrike didn’t become esports overnight just because someone decided to add prize pools to the game. They were already excellent multiplayer PvP experiences with extremely high skill-ceiling that kept people playing for years and competing online without any prizes. They all also receive relatively frequent balance patching to keep the game alive and players interested.

Like someone mentioned already, the GW2 PvP is as stale as a 3-year old bread. It won’t stop being stale by adding prize pools and labeling it as an esport.

Uuni.3561:

They are making plenty enough money from the gemstore to support the development. It doesn’t cost them any extra to do an official GvG arena for the hundreds of people that are already playing the gamemode without proper support.

Are you arguing they should support gvg? A few points:

1. When you are measuring the number of participants in only hundreds, you have a VERY SMALL market.
2. How many of those “hundreds” are the ones actually spending on the gem store?
3. Is this game mode (15v15 or 20v20) accessible for casuals and easy to get invested in (and not NEED to get TS and get in a HUGE organized guild).
4. People already have trouble forming teams of 5 players. How will this mode not face an even more difficult obstacle?

I am not saying gvg as implemented by wvw-ers should see no support or way to compete, but its super-hard to justify this to a business.

Zietlogik.6208:

“We definitely believe people are going to love Stronghold,” says Corpening, “and we want to see what the reaction is to it. We definitely see this being the future of PvP for Guild Wars 2.”

Original Article: http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

Where have I seen something similar before…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-skyhammer-pvp-map/

“I think players are really going to respond well to Skyhammer.”

“Pretty much as soon as we threw this in for testing, our internal playtesters said, ‘This has to go on Live.’”

I know I am being overly negative here, and it is too early to make a proper judgement.

But claiming that this will be the next big thing, while in the same article claiming you can be a non-PvP player is kinda strange. It works, but is kinda strange.

Is this some super-casual moba-esque “you don’t have to fight people if you don’t want to” type of hand-holding gamemode? why would it be in sPvP? why not have it as its own separate thing? maybe in a same light as Kegbrawl…

The thing is, at the time the Majority players Did like Skyhammer. After weeks of negative comments, that was a low percentage of the pvp community, did the devs finally move it away from Ranked.

I see a lot of people liking a gamemode like Stronghold. Whether that’s only PvE players and WvW players… that fan base is 200x bigger than the current PvP community.

So ya they’re probably right, again.

It’s interesting, of course we need to try it but there are very interesting elements

1) NPC (not guards and lord of course) aren’t involved in a combat against players. It’s a good decision imho, NPC are a tactical gamemode mechanic, you need to take decisions about them.

2) there are different secondary mechanics. NPC, Trebuchet, Heroes. It gives variety and deepness (in theory) to gamemode.

3) There could be more “casual” role in a party. I think it’s important to attract a lot of players to PvP. I think team fight will be always very important but it could be a role for people who are not super strong in fight but they take good decisions and they have a good tactical match overview.

I dunno, it sounds interesting, Conquest failed about the attemp to attract a lot of people in pvp, maybe Stronghold will able to do this.

Anyone remember “8 pages of balance changes next patch!” when in reality it was 2 changes per class that did nothing for balance and like 5 bug fixes?

Anet, kings of hype.

BlackBeard.2873:

Are you arguing they should support gvg? A few points:

1. When you are measuring the number of participants in only hundreds, you have a VERY SMALL market.
2. How many of those “hundreds” are the ones actually spending on the gem store?
3. Is this game mode (15v15 or 20v20) accessible for casuals and easy to get invested in (and not NEED to get TS and get in a HUGE organized guild).
4. People already have trouble forming teams of 5 players. How will this mode not face an even more difficult obstacle?

I am not saying gvg as implemented by wvw-ers should see no support or way to compete, but its super-hard to justify this to a business.

Very valid points and a lot of the are very much true so I’ll just give my 2 cents on the topic.

Going for a non-existent market instead of already proven one is a huge risk. The most sensible thing to do would be 3v3 deathmatch arena. Small team size, proven concept, high interest and easy to organize. It does require frequent balancing which might in itself be a nail in the coffin for the idea, knowing anet’s track record when it comes to quality and frequency of balance patches.

Another downside of a player vs player gamemode like that is that it’s not casual-friendly and they lost practically all of the hardcore players during the first 6 months with poorly balanced conquest. Their target demographic seems to be people to whom intractable objects in starting areas are too complex and need to be removed. And there in lies the issue with stronghold too. I don’t think those people will find stronghold any more compelling than conquest over a long period of time. If anything it already splits the small sPvP community

The current GvG scene eats up a lot of gems. Most of the people I see around have a gemstore hair, face, finisher, backpiece and so on.

The team size is the real killer I agree, but all I’m saying is that it wouldn’t be a huge effort to give the game mode some love. They already have the map, and the players. It shouldn’t be that hard to make it accessible from PvP and make it no longer restricted to just WvW server rotations, enabling proper tournaments and rankings. Hell, it even balances itself with the sheer amount of moving parts unlike the current sPvP.

A game mode like that is also completely unique and doesn’t have to compete against other games so it might even draw more people into the game in itself. It just irks me to see so much potential going to waste thanks to the complete neglect of arenanet.

Uuni.3561:

By world tournament you mean the sPvP tournament marketing thing where they tried to push the game as an esport even though it lacks pretty much all the things that make the currently popular esports so popular? The current top reigning esports like starcraft, LoL, dota and counterstrike didn’t become esports overnight just because someone decided to add prize pools to the game. They were already excellent multiplayer PvP experiences with extremely high skill-ceiling that kept people playing for years and competing online without any prizes. They all also receive relatively frequent balance patching to keep the game alive and players interested.

Like someone mentioned already, the GW2 PvP is as stale as a 3-year old bread. It won’t stop being stale by adding prize pools and labeling it as an esport.

as Emeril would say BAMMMM!

tbh tho, all 4 of the games you mentioned are built around PvP not PvE. this is the exact reason why current mmorpg models will never be truly esports. until we get a mmorpg built around pvp there wont be a esports to speak of.

Zietlogik.6208:

“We definitely believe people are going to love Stronghold,” says Corpening, “and we want to see what the reaction is to it. We definitely see this being the future of PvP for Guild Wars 2.”

Original Article: http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

Where have I seen something similar before…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-skyhammer-pvp-map/

“I think players are really going to respond well to Skyhammer.”

“Pretty much as soon as we threw this in for testing, our internal playtesters said, ‘This has to go on Live.’”

I know I am being overly negative here, and it is too early to make a proper judgement.

But claiming that this will be the next big thing, while in the same article claiming you can be a non-PvP player is kinda strange. It works, but is kinda strange.

Is this some super-casual moba-esque “you don’t have to fight people if you don’t want to” type of hand-holding gamemode? why would it be in sPvP? why not have it as its own separate thing? maybe in a same light as Kegbrawl…

That’s what they said about Skyhammer. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake again though, lower chance that they will do so compared to before.

So the article doesn’t specify, but looks like it is gonna be another 5v5. RIP stronghold. I doubt anything less than a 8v8 will have the attention of the wvw and pve community.

Narkodx.1472:

Why would he come out and say anything different?!

I personally believe the game mode will thrive and do very well

PvE players will eat it up as they can be epic by controlling/protecting NPCs and raiding towers

WvW players will also come on over and it will take over GvG

No they wont cause its not what they wanted for GvG.

I think there should be more options for units than just bomb carriers and archers.
Suplementing the areas your team composition lacks in like for example, sturdy melee NPC and balancing out the army would’ve been much more fun I think.

It seems very basic and kind of unoriginal for me. I wish they were a little bit more creative when it comes to systems like those.

I mean, why spend supplies on Archers in the early game when some staff ele will get rid of all guarding NPCs in a matter of seconds? And they can’t harass players.
Get treb, bombard mid, spend supplies on massing bomb carriers and treb repairs. Once gate is down, mass archers, leave the treb, lure the AI out of the base into the range of archers, go ham.

Too basic, too simplistic. I fear that it will very quickly become stale once players find out one or two tactics. Played too many RTSes to not see this coming.

Rym.1469:

Too basic, too simplistic. I fear that it will very quickly become stale once players find out one or two tactics. Played too many RTSes to not see this coming.

You can find the same faults in the conquest game mode, one/two tactics win the day every time. Snowballing and heavy bunkering , remember?

Rym.1469:

It seems very basic and kind of unoriginal for me. I wish they were a little bit more creative when it comes to systems like those.

I mean, why spend supplies on Archers in the early game when some staff ele will get rid of all NPCs in a matter of seconds? And they can’t harass players.
Get treb, bombard mid, spend supplies on massing bomb carriers and treb repairs. Once gate is down, mass archers, leave the treb, lure the AI out of the base into the range of archers, go ham.

Because the enemy team will spend in Heroes, doing mass aoe offensive damage and 1 hitting rats while you spent all your supplies on Rats and Treb repairs.
Suddenly you’re defenseless and susceptible to attacks.

Pretty sure Archers can attack Rats. Rats only attack Gates while Guards (Archers best at killing Guards) will 1 shot Rats. Better hope your horde of Rats are able to reach the gate.

Rym.1469:

I think there should be more options for units than just bomb carriers and archers.
Suplementing the areas your team composition lacks in like for example, sturdy melee NPC and balancing out the army would’ve been much more fun I think.

It seems very basic and kind of unoriginal for me. I wish they were a little bit more creative when it comes to systems like those.

I mean, why spend supplies on Archers in the early game when some staff ele will get rid of all guarding NPCs in a matter of seconds? And they can’t harass players.
Get treb, bombard mid, spend supplies on massing bomb carriers and treb repairs. Once gate is down, mass archers, leave the treb, lure the AI out of the base into the range of archers, go ham.

Too basic, too simplistic. I fear that it will very quickly become stale once players find out one or two tactics. Played too many RTSes to not see this coming.

You do realize it’s PvP, right? Your oversimplistic strat will get countered, ya know?

People keep saying it’ll be kitten. Just hold your horses, sjeez.
The only thing I’m looking forward to is a gamemode that doesn’t involve scoring (0-500) and the cap/hold point gameplay that gives the points. The fact we have to kill a Guild Lord will make it much more enjoyable to watch. This and the other little objectives that pace the gameplay will make it fun to play too as it’ll open up strats, etc.

I hope they’ll limit the mode to guilds/full groups, atleast for ranked.

Uuni.3561:

silvermember.8941:

@Uuni.3561

If they didn’t care they wouldn’t be making a new mode or attempting to do all this world tournament stuff.

Unfortunately, guild wars 2 PvP is handicapped by the fact that it isn’t a f2p, so it creates a loop where they aren’t enough ppl to justify resources and at the same time because of the lack of resource people dont play it.

They are making plenty enough money from the gemstore to support the development. It doesn’t cost them any extra to do an official GvG arena for the hundreds of people that are already playing the gamemode without proper support. If anything it would attract more people to play it. Why not support something that’s already popular inside the game? Why try and re-invent the wheel by trying to appeal to players who aren’t interested in PvP with some and wacky innovative gamemode?

By world tournament you mean the sPvP tournament marketing thing where they tried to push the game as an esport even though it lacks pretty much all the things that make the currently popular esports so popular? The current top reigning esports like starcraft, LoL, dota and counterstrike didn’t become esports overnight just because someone decided to add prize pools to the game. They were already excellent multiplayer PvP experiences with extremely high skill-ceiling that kept people playing for years and competing online without any prizes. They all also receive relatively frequent balance patching to keep the game alive and players interested.

Like someone mentioned already, the GW2 PvP is as stale as a 3-year old bread. It won’t stop being stale by adding prize pools and labeling it as an esport.

They make money FROM the PVE side, NOT the PvP side. There is a reason why PvE gets all the nice things it is because you support what brings you money which is PvE.

They aren’t enough players to support your terrible GvG format.

When I saw that Anet comment I instantly thought of and can possibly see Stronghold turning out like this.

“Hey kids if you like Gw2 Spvp than your gonna love Stronghold!”

oneply.9586:

tbh tho, all 4 of the games you mentioned are built around PvP not PvE. this is the exact reason why current mmorpg models will never be truly esports. until we get a mmorpg built around pvp there wont be a esports to speak of.

Well it’s different people making the two gamemodes. SC2 out of the 4 have a decent PvE playerbase. It’s not that much you need to do to make something a competent PvP game, spending all the money in marketing is definitely not the right thing to do.

silvermember.8941:

They aren’t enough players to support your terrible GvG format.

There already are enough players that are self-supporting the “terrible” GvG format. A place where guilds could fight regardless of WvW server matchup rotation would be nice so people can organize tournaments and such. Standard player models would help a lot as well.

xDudisx.5914:

So the article doesn’t specify, but looks like it is gonna be another 5v5. RIP stronghold. I doubt anything less than a 8v8 will have the attention of the wvw and pve community.

And who cares about them? Should Dungeons be developed based on what PvP players want? Should they remove towers from WvW and replace them with PvE events because maybe some PvE players would want that?

In case some WvW players hadn’t noticed, this is going to be an addition to PvP, not your spammy zergfests, for that you get your new borderland which tbh looks amazing.

There’s a terribly flawed syllogism going on here:
Devs said Skyhammer would be great
Skyhammer wasn’t great
Devs say that Stronghold will be great
Therefore Stronghold won’t be great either.

If you don’t understand what’s wrong with that, then I suggest getting acquainted with the difference between correlation and causation.

Skyhammer is awesome! Those who don’t like it don’t know how to adapt or even have map awareness. This new pvp mode will be a refresher to spvp. Anet admits that this modes takes things from other games…. so what? I can just say blizzard….I said it.

The only thing that brings a tiny disappointment is that the stronghold Pvp mode does not use Guild Halls as a battleground. The game mode itself could be a fun little preview of guild halls that your guild can purchase.

witcher.3197:

xDudisx.5914:

So the article doesn’t specify, but looks like it is gonna be another 5v5. RIP stronghold. I doubt anything less than a 8v8 will have the attention of the wvw and pve community.

And who cares about them? Should Dungeons be developed based on what PvP players want? Should they remove towers from WvW and replace them with PvE events because maybe some PvE players would want that?

In case some WvW players hadn’t noticed, this is going to be an addition to PvP, not your spammy zergfests, for that you get your new borderland which tbh looks amazing.

You know that the lack of players is what causes the bad matchmaking and makes it impossible to divide players in tiers right? Stronghold failing to attract more players will just divide the tiny spvp player-base.

Ok two things:

1) Overall, 2014 was a good year for structured pvp imo. In april balance got rid of one of the most easy build in the game, the spirit ranger, and the reward tracks and UI improvements drove a lot of players to pvp, including myself and my entire guild. After that, Skyhammer was fixed, balance was better than ever with the nerf of hambow warriors, and the new MM is promising, even if it still has obvious flaws. The only thing they did that was a step backward, again in my opinion, was the changes to the LB. And those who say “bring back soloq” are just bad players who can’t deal with the fact that they are now matched against old teamq solo players who have much, much more strategic skill.

2) Stronghold is not supposed to attract the exact same players conquest do. It’s closer to WvW, and I don’t think that being noob-friendly is necessarily a bad thing. One of the main complain about conquest is that it is so difficult to get into. Back in april when I began to play conquest, boy was I screamed at for doing all the classic beginner’s mistakes! I toughened up and got better, but a lot of players don’t have this resilience, and for them Stronghold could be the place to develop their mechanical skill before trying a more combat heavy mode like conquest.

I personally welcome this game mode and any different game modes that do not require the 2/3 point philosophy. It’s nice to be able to play different game modes and not feel like a mindless robot for hours

One of the things I enjoy about PvP with other games (Halo, CoD, WoW, GW1, etc) Is that I can kill players while focusing on different objectives every time. CTF, Deathmatch, Team Death Match, Infected, Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, Griffball, Select weapons only, Invasion, etc.

Why should GW2 be stuck with Conquest only?

xDudisx.5914:

You know that the lack of players is what causes the bad matchmaking and makes it impossible to divide players in tiers right? Stronghold failing to attract more players will just divide the tiny spvp player-base.

Exactly. Anet’s developers aren’t completely clueless, and I’m pretty sure this new game mode is meant to be a gate between the three game modes. If Stronghold turns out to be fun, maybe we can hope to see the conquest player-base increase as well.

Wolfey.3407:

I personally welcome this game mode and any different game modes that do not require the 2/3 point philosophy. It’s nice to be able to play different game modes and not feel like a mindless robot for hours

One of the things I enjoy about PvP with other games (Halo, CoD, WoW, GW1, etc) Is that I can kill players while focusing on different objectives every time. CTF, Deathmatch, Team Death Match, Infected, Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, Griffball, Select weapons only, Invasion, etc.

Why should GW2 be stuck with Conquest only?

Two things that can be done to address that:

1) Let us play in custom arena while waiting for a queue to pop. We could duel, or fight in 2v2v or 3v3 while waiting for our conquest/stronghold match

2) I hope the new WvW borderlands and improvements to WvW will make it so that killing players is not the struggle it is now. These bloody guard stacks, ascended armors and above all this immense plain maps make it impossible to kill a player if he wants to run away. The description of the new maps mention choke-points, which could hopefully be great ambush locations.

Sorel.4870:

Wolfey.3407:

I personally welcome this game mode and any different game modes that do not require the 2/3 point philosophy. It’s nice to be able to play different game modes and not feel like a mindless robot for hours

One of the things I enjoy about PvP with other games (Halo, CoD, WoW, GW1, etc) Is that I can kill players while focusing on different objectives every time. CTF, Deathmatch, Team Death Match, Infected, Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, Griffball, Select weapons only, Invasion, etc.

Why should GW2 be stuck with Conquest only?

Two things that can be done to address that:

1) Let us play in custom arena while waiting for a queue to pop. We could duel, or fight in 2v2v or 3v3 while waiting for our conquest/stronghold match

2) I hope the new WvW borderlands and improvements to WvW will make it so that killing players is not the struggle it is now. These bloody guard stacks, ascended armors and above all this immense plain maps make it impossible to kill a player if he wants to run away. The description of the new maps mention choke-points, which could hopefully be great ambush locations.

I don’t see how point one or two have to do with anything quoted o_o i’m not sure if you quoted the wrong person or not :P

Wolfey.3407:

I don’t see how point one or two have to do with anything quoted o_o i’m not sure if you quoted the wrong person or not :P

You’re right! Sorry I read your comment too fast, I thought you wrote that you didn’t like to focus on objectives at all and just kill players, and I saw you quote DM and didn’t read any further, my bad. So I wrote about objective-free pvp in GW2, which was completely off topic, forgive me.