Guild Wars 2

The game mode killed this game. It would be ok as one of a few game modes (maybe), but on its own very few people have fun.

The truth is people play pvp in all games to compete with other players. Generally, people dont enjoy having to stand on a tiny circle to win the game.

Conquest is just….awful. It takes so much skill out of the game and takes even more builds out of the meta. There are so many builds which aren’t viable (mostly hybrid type specs) because if you dont “survive” or “kill” or “neutralise” then there is really no point in your build. The game mode is responsible for this.

If you want conquest then why not have like in Swtor where there are channelled things that people do (like the buffs on temple) and then you own the point. This would remove so much of the lameness from tiny capture points, and it would add skill into the game because it would mean you cant just spam mindlessly on a point, or just sit mindlessly on a point.

There is a reason legacy is the most popular map, and it is because the middle point is big enough to enable at least some movement. It is still a conquest map, so being a bunker still is always effective. But at least there is a way to actually distinguish urself from others as the best thing isnt to just spam on a point where your aoe covers the whole point.

I dont play this game anymore. Except on rare occasions when I just log on to mess around with people I enjoy playing with. The sad truth is this game is just about to die once and for all. The reason: game modes above all else. They waited too long to add new game modes. A good designer with implement their ideas and then redesign/edit what they have created based on the feedback from the users. The PvP in this game was designed poorly as they didn’t listen to the main feedback from alpha through to now – that this game mode was terrible.

I hate speaking for others, but the only thing which can really get people back is tournaments which are different game modes. If, as rumored, you are going to introduce new game modes which are not available in queued tournaments then please just dont bother. It will just frustrate people.

To clarify anet – If you are going to introduce new game modes make sure it isnt in a hotjoin format, because hotjoin is pointless and unbalanced by definition.

Really, part of me can’t wait for them to introduce new game modes and not have them in tournaments, or to not have matchmaking in them, or a ladder for them. Just so I can laugh at the ineptitude. But another part of me would like to see those loyal few who stuck by this game at least get some reward in the form of some actual pvp (not player vs point). Those of you who continue with a game focussed on pve with decision makers who appear to not even understands the basics – much respect to you. But I dont know how you do it seeing how slow features come out and how balance changes are minor even after months and months of build up.

they need to test the new maps game modes in hotjoin servers anyway before they move it to tournaments (solo arena, team arena, future ladders etc)

why not a “push the flag” death match like snow ball mayhem?

player kills = 5 team points
pushing a “flag” to your enemy base = 100 team points

just use a different terrain and it should work out nicely.
no snow since it is not winter, maybe same terrain, 2 hills, bases on each hills, bomb “flag” spawns at the bottom in the middle, 2 teams must push the bomb onto enemies bases to blow them up.

daze, stun, knock back, knock down, launch will cause the “flag” to be dropped.
as for the “flag” maybe can consider a powerful bomb.

a bomb will spawn at the middle, upon taking it off the pedestal via uninterrupted channeling of 3 seconds, either team have 2 minutes to push the bomb to the enemy’s base before it explodes, dealing massive damage (standard trebuchet damage) and launching (trebuchet launch) everyone away.

upon pushing the bomb into the enemies base, everyone have 5 seconds to flee before the bombs explodes anyway.

good?

i disagree,

Conquest is the PERFECT gamemode for a game which strives to be competitive.

The only issue i see is that most of these maps they gave to us are SMALL, with SMALL POINTS, favouring tanky and fast builds among all ( there was a time were staff guardians didn’t exist, then Azshene).

After staff guardians, it has been a race towards fast defensive proffs ( engies, necros, rangers post buffs, now wars) for the simple reason they move fast ( aside necros), can decap, can hold, can kill.

All favoured by casuals hatred for burst and high dps and aNet granting their wishes with nerfs.

Foefire is a great example of the format which should be taken into consideration for a SERIOUS PvP game : gamechanging secondary objective, huge points, overall quite big map.

Other maps are simply bad, even Nifhel, Khylo and Temple ( temple being slight better).

The problem is not abou conquest, the problem is about conquest being unchallenging and favouring boring builds: having more maps like foefire ( layout) would really solve most of our problems with build diversity.

Lol, in foefire even a staff ele could work, mind you.

Mrbig,

what about a “push the flag” concept like a reverse snow ball mayhem?
except that we carry a bomb from the middle into their base.

So now the flip side? game mode without conquest….do you want 4 hour matches because both teams have each other at a stale mate? Do you want 3v3 arena’s where matches last 45minutes + because of disengages and resets? Conquest FORCES action as you can’t just peel off and run away the enemy will still be ticking points etc….the only thing I see needing changes is bigger emphasis on secondary objectives.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mrbig,

what about a “push the flag” concept like a reverse snow ball mayhem?
except that we carry a bomb from the middle into their base.

TBH i thimk a standard “warsong gulch” would already be perfect.

aNet tried to make things different, they just ended up doing 6 times the same thing with sligh variations and just a couple of competitive maps ( and competitive doesn’t necessarily mean FUN, altough Foefire and Temple are pretty fun and intense when played right).

Zanthrax.6538:

So now the flip side? game mode without conquest….do you want 4 hour matches because both teams have each other at a stale mate? Do you want 3v3 arena’s where matches last 45minutes + because of disengages and resets? Conquest FORCES action as you can’t just peel off and run away the enemy will still be ticking points etc….the only thing I see needing changes is bigger emphasis on secondary objectives.

well back in the original guild wars, a timer was added to the random arena (i only play random arena mostly since it was the only casual pvp mode back then) so fights would always end after the timer is up.

well a “pushing the bomb into enemy base” concept would also forces action yes? maybe a single big capture point in the middle instead of 3 capture points?

a successful bomb push would give 100 team points, player kills give 5 team points, the one and only huge capture point in the middle where the bomb spawns gives 1 team point every 3 seconds.

there could even throw in some meditation of ferocity around so team kills are worth more team points.

good compromise?

Mrbig.8019:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mrbig,

what about a “push the flag” concept like a reverse snow ball mayhem?
except that we carry a bomb from the middle into their base.

TBH i thimk a standard “warsong gulch” would already be perfect.

aNet tried to make things different, they just ended up doing 6 times the same thing with sligh variations and just a couple of competitive maps ( and competitive doesn’t necessarily mean FUN, altough Foefire and Temple are pretty fun and intense when played right).

aaah thanks for the reply!
errr sorry but i did not play WoW enough to know what is “warsong gulch” is though. >.<

is there anything in the original guild wars 1 to related or?
or anytime in the current guild wars 2 that resembles it?

Conquest will never work in e-sports.
There is no build up in conquest, the game is always steady, the points keep flowing in and there is never a tense moment where the match halts because the next move can decide the game. This is why, in my opinion, games with an early/mid/late game are making it work. There’s the slow early game for people to get a sense of strats going on, there’s the fast paced mid game where all sort of plays can happen, and then, if the game gets to it, there’s the super tense late game, where every decision makes the difference. There is tension and the crowd is nervous, there’s emotion.
In gw2, in conquest, the only map that comes close to this is foefire, and even that is nowhere near that level, you can’t really appreciate what is going on. You see the enemy team playing piñata with the lord and the defenders desperately trying to keep it alive, while the casters are just bambling words waiting to see who comes out victor. It’s a mess. If you watch BLU’s bets of 2013 pvp video, most of the highlights are lord kills, monster kills or stomps. It’s never a pure player play.

So yeah, conquest only was a pretty bad idea ArenaNet friends.

ahuba.6430:

Conquest will never work in e-sports.
There is no build up in conquest, the game is always steady, the points keep flowing in and there is never a tense moment where the match halts because the next move can decide the game. This is why, in my opinion, games with an early/mid/late game are making it work. There’s the slow early game for people to get a sense of strats going on, there’s the fast paced mid game where all sort of plays can happen, and then, if the game gets to it, there’s the super tense late game, where every decision makes the difference. There is tension and the crowd is nervous, there’s emotion.
In gw2, in conquest, the only map that comes close to this is foefire, and even that is nowhere near that level, you can’t really appreciate what is going on. You see the enemy team playing piñata with the lord and the defenders desperately trying to keep it alive, while the casters are just bambling words waiting to see who comes out victor. It’s a mess. If you watch BLU’s bets of 2013 pvp video, most of the highlights are lord kills, monster kills or stomps. It’s never a pure player play.

So yeah, conquest only was a pretty bad idea ArenaNet friends.

hmmm so you said "games with an early/mid/late game are making it work. " then does this mean we need to have a MOBA styled guild wars 2 map? O_O

/clap and salute to one of the last good players, who left the game.

i like foefire

but i hate how easy bunkerclasses have it on this big middle node and run in big circles like chickens

big nodes with NO bunkerclasses allowed would be nice^^

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ahuba.6430:

Conquest will never work in e-sports.
There is no build up in conquest, the game is always steady, the points keep flowing in and there is never a tense moment where the match halts because the next move can decide the game. This is why, in my opinion, games with an early/mid/late game are making it work. There’s the slow early game for people to get a sense of strats going on, there’s the fast paced mid game where all sort of plays can happen, and then, if the game gets to it, there’s the super tense late game, where every decision makes the difference. There is tension and the crowd is nervous, there’s emotion.
In gw2, in conquest, the only map that comes close to this is foefire, and even that is nowhere near that level, you can’t really appreciate what is going on. You see the enemy team playing piñata with the lord and the defenders desperately trying to keep it alive, while the casters are just bambling words waiting to see who comes out victor. It’s a mess. If you watch BLU’s bets of 2013 pvp video, most of the highlights are lord kills, monster kills or stomps. It’s never a pure player play.

So yeah, conquest only was a pretty bad idea ArenaNet friends.

hmmm so you said "games with an early/mid/late game are making it work. " then does this mean we need to have a MOBA styled guild wars 2 map? O_O

No, but you could introduce various stages in the match where different objectives are prioritized. This is conceptually available on Temple of the silent storm, although the objectives on this map are still linked to the capture points. Still, Temple is one of the maps where you can see massive turn-arounds due to the secondary objectives.

You could change the buffs so that obtaining Stillness grants you 80-100 conquest points and tranquility grants 200 conquest points. This would make the matches more teamfight-centric, rather than decap/bunker oriented.

Romek.4201:

i like foefire

but i hate how easy bunkerclasses have it on this big middle node and run in big circles like chickens

big nodes with NO bunkerclasses allowed would be nice^^

In the power-meta, you had at Maximum 2 bunker-classes. It worked perfectly. Today you have 2 full-bunker plus 2 to 3 semi-bunkers aka warriors and engineers and that’s where the problem starts.

Zanthrax.6538:

So now the flip side? game mode without conquest….do you want 4 hour matches because both teams have each other at a stale mate? Do you want 3v3 arena’s where matches last 45minutes + because of disengages and resets? Conquest FORCES action as you can’t just peel off and run away the enemy will still be ticking points etc….the only thing I see needing changes is bigger emphasis on secondary objectives.

NO because a properly done arena would be based on a system where each team of 2/3 gets 15 tickets and when you die = you lose a ticket. And the game has a 10 minute timer. When the timer reaches zero or a teams tickets = 0 then the team with the least tickets has lost. This is a true arena system which is the only thing which can work with anets elite skill system. The maps also need to be really small to promote fighting and not kiting.

These are basics. Wildstar is doing a ticket system in their arenas. It should be really simple for anet to introduce this. Obviously just a 2v2 arena where its first to die loses will be an epic fail based around OP elites (cheese). If they do this then its just more lolz at a game designed by people who dont play it.

Mrbig.8019:

i disagree,

Conquest is the PERFECT gamemode for a game which strives to be competitive.

The only issue i see is that most of these maps they gave to us are SMALL, with SMALL POINTS, favouring tanky and fast builds among all ( there was a time were staff guardians didn’t exist, then Azshene).

After staff guardians, it has been a race towards fast defensive proffs ( engies, necros, rangers post buffs, now wars) for the simple reason they move fast ( aside necros), can decap, can hold, can kill.

All favoured by casuals hatred for burst and high dps and aNet granting their wishes with nerfs.

Foefire is a great example of the format which should be taken into consideration for a SERIOUS PvP game : gamechanging secondary objective, huge points, overall quite big map.

Other maps are simply bad, even Nifhel, Khylo and Temple ( temple being slight better).

The problem is not abou conquest, the problem is about conquest being unchallenging and favouring boring builds: having more maps like foefire ( layout) would really solve most of our problems with build diversity.

Lol, in foefire even a staff ele could work, mind you.

This!

I agree 100%. The secondary objective should be game changing, like in Foefire. They should indeed have more maps like it since it has a really nice design. Getting The Lord can really change the tide of the game, and sometimes decide it.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Romek.4201:

i like foefire

but i hate how easy bunkerclasses have it on this big middle node and run in big circles like chickens

big nodes with NO bunkerclasses allowed would be nice^^

In the power-meta, you had at Maximum 2 bunker-classes. It worked perfectly. Today you have 2 full-bunker plus 2 to 3 semi-bunkers aka warriors and engineers and that’s where the problem starts.

ye you cant now kill bunker fast enough before the other is spawned and back again

when 1 team now hs this big node you will never get it back when they have enough bunkers – thats boring

wanna see a tournament with only berserker amulett allowed – would atleast be fun to watch^^

but i bet 90% from the players would fail hard than

Lordrosicky.5813:

The game mode killed this game. It would be ok as one of a few game modes (maybe), but on its own very few people have fun.

The truth is people play pvp in all games to compete with other players. Generally, people dont enjoy having to stand on a tiny circle to win the game.

Conquest is just….awful. It takes so much skill out of the game and takes even more builds out of the meta. There are so many builds which aren’t viable (mostly hybrid type specs) because if you dont “survive” or “kill” or “neutralise” then there is really no point in your build. The game mode is responsible for this.

If you want conquest then why not have like in Swtor where there are channelled things that people do (like the buffs on temple) and then you own the point. This would remove so much of the lameness from tiny capture points, and it would add skill into the game because it would mean you cant just spam mindlessly on a point, or just sit mindlessly on a point.

There is a reason legacy is the most popular map, and it is because the middle point is big enough to enable at least some movement. It is still a conquest map, so being a bunker still is always effective. But at least there is a way to actually distinguish urself from others as the best thing isnt to just spam on a point where your aoe covers the whole point.

I dont play this game anymore. Except on rare occasions when I just log on to mess around with people I enjoy playing with. The sad truth is this game is just about to die once and for all. The reason: game modes above all else. They waited too long to add new game modes. A good designer with implement their ideas and then redesign/edit what they have created based on the feedback from the users. The PvP in this game was designed poorly as they didn’t listen to the main feedback from alpha through to now – that this game mode was terrible.

I hate speaking for others, but the only thing which can really get people back is tournaments which are different game modes. If, as rumored, you are going to introduce new game modes which are not available in queued tournaments then please just dont bother. It will just frustrate people.

To clarify anet – If you are going to introduce new game modes make sure it isnt in a hotjoin format, because hotjoin is pointless and unbalanced by definition.

Really, part of me can’t wait for them to introduce new game modes and not have them in tournaments, or to not have matchmaking in them, or a ladder for them. Just so I can laugh at the ineptitude. But another part of me would like to see those loyal few who stuck by this game at least get some reward in the form of some actual pvp (not player vs point). Those of you who continue with a game focussed on pve with decision makers who appear to not even understands the basics – much respect to you. But I dont know how you do it seeing how slow features come out and how balance changes are minor even after months and months of build up.

Well we argued many times bout necros vs mesmers…but i have to say we just lost another good player. About your question on how ppl can just keep on playing this crap pvp while noone from anet really cares i can just answer that i’m still here because i loved gw1 so much i don’t want to give up on this….nothing more, nothing on this game makes me play it except for old good memories…

So hope to see you around here again one day henry, maybe with a better game to play..

Geiir.7603:

Mrbig.8019:

i disagree,

Conquest is the PERFECT gamemode for a game which strives to be competitive.

The only issue i see is that most of these maps they gave to us are SMALL, with SMALL POINTS, favouring tanky and fast builds among all ( there was a time were staff guardians didn’t exist, then Azshene).

After staff guardians, it has been a race towards fast defensive proffs ( engies, necros, rangers post buffs, now wars) for the simple reason they move fast ( aside necros), can decap, can hold, can kill.

All favoured by casuals hatred for burst and high dps and aNet granting their wishes with nerfs.

Foefire is a great example of the format which should be taken into consideration for a SERIOUS PvP game : gamechanging secondary objective, huge points, overall quite big map.

Other maps are simply bad, even Nifhel, Khylo and Temple ( temple being slight better).

The problem is not abou conquest, the problem is about conquest being unchallenging and favouring boring builds: having more maps like foefire ( layout) would really solve most of our problems with build diversity.

Lol, in foefire even a staff ele could work, mind you.

This!

I agree 100%. The secondary objective should be game changing, like in Foefire. They should indeed have more maps like it since it has a really nice design. Getting The Lord can really change the tide of the game, and sometimes decide it.

You wont agree after you have played 5000+ tournaments trust me.

Imagine where a 1v1 is actually based on skill and you arent required to have such a fight on a tiny circle where you have to just face tank stuff because you cant move without losing the point. Imagine where you play people whose tactics aren’t just to push your home point all game and then make you lose points without fighting against you. There are top players whose only skill is afking to far point all game and maybe winning the odd 1 on 1 because they have strong builds for it. Where is the skill in that? It is utterly ridiculous.

There is such a lack of pvp in this game because often it is wrong to try and pvp, and correct to just run to an empty point and cap it. This is only made worse by bunkery comps. I have lost to teams who play bunkery comps 500-150 when they all have 50 points and we have 120+. How is that good game design? You win a game by miles by not actually fighting and killing anyone at all. It is player vs point and player vs ai. Ai is very funny because this is a game where a spec based around 5 ai creatures has been one of the most dominant specs for 6 months and when they do nerf it it gets nerfed less than everything else and so is still completely broken. This game is a laughing stock due to things like this, but mainly due to conquest. Check twitch viewers if you dont believe me.

I like conquest. It should stay. Foefire map promotes heavy bunkering and that’s why it is not good. The best map is probably temple.

The question is, how new game-modes would be affected by the balance. Because I doubt this game will get more depth if the balance keeps the same.

ye think bout a gamemode like warsong in wow for gw2 and team goes full minionmaster +spiritranger and all carry and defend the flag^^

you have to be lucky to get even 1x dmg on flagcarrier with aoe lol

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The question is, how new game-modes would be affected by the balance. Because I doubt this game will get more depth if the balance keeps the same.

Good point

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The question is, how new game-modes would be affected by the balance. Because I doubt this game will get more depth if the balance keeps the same.

Maybe I’m not following you – but wouldn’t new game modes result in the emergence of a whole new meta with a whole new set of viable builds? I would think that, in and of itself, would be producing more “depth” to the game.

I agree with you (for a change) lordrosicky. As a longtime pvp veteran and multigame tournament level player its quite easy to see where Anet slips up. The mode itself, the layout of certain maps and the impact of secondary objectives are the biggest cons.

I said this a 100 times allready. Eventho there are other factors that will influence its succes; the new gamemode (s) will make or break GW2s pvp. If they screw up (again) pvpplayers will scatter to other games and stay away for good. If the gamemode (s) end up being good the pvp population will increase rapidly.

The new gamesmodes (and pvp in general for that matter) needs to be easy to get in to but hard to master. Which isnt the case atm. Conquest isnt intuitive enough. Its isnt focussed on killing and playing defensive to avoid kills. Its a totally different mindset if compared to traditional pvp and to real “esports” games.

Locuz.2651:

I agree with you (for a change) lordrosicky. As a longtime pvp veteran and multigame tournament level player its quite easy to see where Anet slips up. The mode itself, the layout of certain maps and the impact of secondary objectives are the biggest cons.

I said this a 100 times allready. Eventho there are other factors that will influence its succes; the new gamemode (s) will make or break GW2s pvp. If they screw up (again) pvpplayers will scatter to other games and stay away for good. If the gamemode (s) end up being good the pvp population will increase rapidly.

The new gamesmodes (and pvp in general for that matter) needs to be easy to get in to but hard to master. Which isnt the case atm.

Conquest isnt intuitive enough. Its isnt focussed on killing and playing defensive to avoid kills. Its a totally different mindset if compared to traditional pvp and to real “esports” games.

aye Locuz what kind of game mode do you think will work for guild wars 2 sPvP?

in order to retain players, attract new players, go esports etc? O_O

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Locuz.2651:

I agree with you (for a change) lordrosicky. As a longtime pvp veteran and multigame tournament level player its quite easy to see where Anet slips up. The mode itself, the layout of certain maps and the impact of secondary objectives are the biggest cons.

I said this a 100 times allready. Eventho there are other factors that will influence its succes; the new gamemode (s) will make or break GW2s pvp. If they screw up (again) pvpplayers will scatter to other games and stay away for good. If the gamemode (s) end up being good the pvp population will increase rapidly.

The new gamesmodes (and pvp in general for that matter) needs to be easy to get in to but hard to master. Which isnt the case atm.

Conquest isnt intuitive enough. Its isnt focussed on killing and playing defensive to avoid kills. Its a totally different mindset if compared to traditional pvp and to real “esports” games.

aye Locuz what kind of game mode do you think will work for guild wars 2 sPvP?

in order to retain players, attract new players, go esports etc? O_O

this is what I would like to see happen…

1- fix the subpar professions and combat mode.
2- death match mode.
3- observe death match mode to keep fixing subpar professions and combat mode.
4- anything less than the above 3 modes will be futile mode.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

aye Locuz what kind of game mode do you think will work for guild wars 2 sPvP?

in order to retain players, attract new players, go esports etc? O_O

Esports shouldnt be the primary goal. Esports is something that happens after you created a succesfull gamemode AND all classes are rebalanced so they are easy to get in to but hard to master. We are really far from that point atm.

- A gamemode that is super intuitive/easy to get in to. It should be enjoyable and understandable for people who started playing the game 10 minutes ago (but provide enough depth for people who are looking for it).
- Layouts should split people to avoid zergfests, but it should automtically steer people in a direction of small scale pvp skirmishes (think moba).
- Pvpers enter pvp since they want to pvp (and not because they want to bunker points). So winning pvp skirmishes should be what wins the game for you.
- Secondary objectives are fine but they should not be the deciding factor. They should give buffs for example.
- No cheesy one shot mechanics. No instant deaths due to knockbacks, supercanons or w/e.

I think the main thing they need to do is study other games. It seems they are trying really hard to reinvent the wheel, which isnt needed at all.

I understand that the number of people doing sPvP has at least doubled after the Dec 10th patch.

Locuz played too much Lol^^

Locuz,
aaah thanks!

Silentshoes.,
i think many PvE / WvW players are more keen to try out sPvP now but it seems like most of them still likes to farm PvE dungeons or roam zerg in WvW. >.<

at least that is the situation in my guild of casual players.

before 10 dec 2013 patch, it seems like no one bothered to sPvP together.
after 10 dec 2013, there is some interest among some PvP savvy members. but not much.

seems like only those truly enjoy PvP will sPvP more often.

Silentshoes.1805:

I understand that the number of people doing sPvP has at least doubled after the Dec 10th patch.

From like 150 to 300 ppl doing spvp at a time? Which is less players than we have on our private aom server (10+ years old game that closed its official online service down).

Its a huge flop to be honest. I think this is one of the main reasons that development of pvp related content is relatively slow.

I think ArenaNet knows that sPvP is actually increasing now with the current changes and direction.

It does not seem to be dying, but rather has been more integrated into the rest of the game.

The original poster seems to believe that only the first players last year were the “official” players that count, and if they stop playing, then PvP “is dying”.

I think ArenaNet is pleased with their progress on sPvP, and I bet more resources can now be allocated to it, since it is more a part of the moneymaking portion of the game.

They tried spirit watch. It failed.
They tried skyhammer. It failed even worse.

(Fail = Going by player feedback of the map)

I’m afraid of them releasing new game modes. Will be fun times on the forums again.

New gamemodes? We’ll still have the skill-less gameplay that GW2 actually is. The balance between skill ceiling/skill floor, both from an individual perspective as from a team point of view is completely kittened. This is, combined with the lack of a competitive, rewarding infrastructure and maybe the lack of some more gamemodes, the reason why gw2 pvp, imo, is a failure.
And I don’t think any balancing will make it better. Balance is an ongoing process in every game. Perfect balance is an illusion. Skill-based gameplay, infrastructure, gamemodes and the like are ‘one-time investment’ features and should always be priority. The most difficult one is skill-based gameplay, good luck on achieving that this far in the games life cycle and with the desire to satisfy both WvW and PVE.

Locuz.2651:

Which isnt the case atm. Conquest isnt intuitive enough. Its isnt focussed on killing and playing defensive to avoid kills. Its a totally different mindset if compared to traditional pvp and to real “esports” games.

It might be why when I solo q (I should be around 80-90% at the moment, haven’t been playing for a while so I decayed a bit) I always feel like my whole team is trying to win, but all we do is make gambles and hope for the best, without a clear idea on what needs to be done in order to win (except from the obvious “hold points”). I don’t experience whole teams fighting off points anymore, but sometimes you just go to points that might be takable hoping it’s enough.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Mrbig.8019:

i disagree,

Conquest is the PERFECT gamemode for a game which strives to be competitive.

The only issue i see is that most of these maps they gave to us are SMALL, with SMALL POINTS, favouring tanky and fast builds among all ( there was a time were staff guardians didn’t exist, then Azshene).

After staff guardians, it has been a race towards fast defensive proffs ( engies, necros, rangers post buffs, now wars) for the simple reason they move fast ( aside necros), can decap, can hold, can kill.

All favoured by casuals hatred for burst and high dps and aNet granting their wishes with nerfs.

Foefire is a great example of the format which should be taken into consideration for a SERIOUS PvP game : gamechanging secondary objective, huge points, overall quite big map.

Other maps are simply bad, even Nifhel, Khylo and Temple ( temple being slight better).

The problem is not abou conquest, the problem is about conquest being unchallenging and favouring boring builds: having more maps like foefire ( layout) would really solve most of our problems with build diversity.

Lol, in foefire even a staff ele could work, mind you.

This!

I agree 100%. The secondary objective should be game changing, like in Foefire. They should indeed have more maps like it since it has a really nice design. Getting The Lord can really change the tide of the game, and sometimes decide it.

You wont agree after you have played 5000+ tournaments trust me.

Imagine where a 1v1 is actually based on skill and you arent required to have such a fight on a tiny circle where you have to just face tank stuff because you cant move without losing the point. Imagine where you play people whose tactics aren’t just to push your home point all game and then make you lose points without fighting against you. There are top players whose only skill is afking to far point all game and maybe winning the odd 1 on 1 because they have strong builds for it. Where is the skill in that? It is utterly ridiculous.

There is such a lack of pvp in this game because often it is wrong to try and pvp, and correct to just run to an empty point and cap it. This is only made worse by bunkery comps. I have lost to teams who play bunkery comps 500-150 when they all have 50 points and we have 120+. How is that good game design? You win a game by miles by not actually fighting and killing anyone at all. It is player vs point and player vs ai. Ai is very funny because this is a game where a spec based around 5 ai creatures has been one of the most dominant specs for 6 months and when they do nerf it it gets nerfed less than everything else and so is still completely broken. This game is a laughing stock due to things like this, but mainly due to conquest. Check twitch viewers if you dont believe me.

i don’t really see this “skill”.

I started to play Dark Souls PvP, it is probably one of the most skill based combat ever created, yet it has basically none of the skill and tactic required to play an objective based game ( like conquest SHOULD be).

The issues you’re facing are mostly due to current meta being bunker/bunkerish, not really about the game being conquest based.

In the old power meta, leaving a bunker afking at far was NEVER a good choice unless it was an ele, because there was NO WAY to survive thief+mez for longer than 10 secs ( reason why we used to cry about eles mist forming+ rtl away, simply to go back after being fully healed).

Current bunker engi/war would NEVER stand a chance against old school burst.

Bunker meta arose due to damage being badly nerfed: mez were running mirror images, now you won’t find any fool slotting an u-skill simply for an increased burst.

There are plenty of ways to make conquest interesting, but above all TTK needs to be fast, otherwise we have nothing more than a boring “bunker here, bunker there” game.

As i said, Foefire is a good example of a well designed map, renderd boring by bunkers: i’ve currently bunkered mid in that map with my S/P thief even against 3 people thanks to thief mobility, on a glass build; something impossible to do in other maps.

To make Gw2 shine, we need fast balance decisions in order to tone down certain builds HARD or a whole rebalancing of how conquest works, because right now it’s only about afking on a point with a regen banner or with toolkit/flammenwerfer pushing people away and blocking all attacks half of the time with perma prot.

Legacy would be good map, but those stupid capture rings ruin whole thing. sPvE heros don’t even try to attack in keep. They just sit inside circle.

I dont think that conquest is a bad game mode per se, but i think for Soloque is not the best game mode. Without proper communication (which you dont have in Soloque), it can be really dishearting. I think for Soloque a more “simple” game mode like dm or ctf would be better and more fun. For Teamque however i think its fine.
Ahh and the down times in Soloque are also annoying. With that i mean waiting for the pop up and then the 2 min until it starts (never had it that everyone pressed the ready buttom…) .

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t really see this “skill”.

I started to play Dark Souls PvP, it is probably one of the most skill based combat ever created, yet it has basically none of the skill and tactic required to play an objective based game ( like conquest SHOULD be).

The issues you’re facing are mostly due to current meta being bunker/bunkerish, not really about the game being conquest based.

In the old power meta, leaving a bunker afking at far was NEVER a good choice unless it was an ele, because there was NO WAY to survive thief+mez for longer than 10 secs ( reason why we used to cry about eles mist forming+ rtl away, simply to go back after being fully healed).

Current bunker engi/war would NEVER stand a chance against old school burst.

Bunker meta arose due to damage being badly nerfed: mez were running mirror images, now you won’t find any fool slotting an u-skill simply for an increased burst.

There are plenty of ways to make conquest interesting, but above all TTK needs to be fast, otherwise we have nothing more than a boring “bunker here, bunker there” game.

As i said, Foefire is a good example of a well designed map, renderd boring by bunkers: i’ve currently bunkered mid in that map with my S/P thief even against 3 people thanks to thief mobility, on a glass build; something impossible to do in other maps.

To make Gw2 shine, we need fast balance decisions in order to tone down certain builds HARD or a whole rebalancing of how conquest works, because right now it’s only about afking on a point with a regen banner or with toolkit/flammenwerfer pushing people away and blocking all attacks half of the time with perma prot.

Now, Dark Souls requires a lot of skills, but that skill doesn’t come in reflexes but in:

Patience: Dark Souls pvp is much more slow-paced than you’d expect, but that doesn’t mean it’s boring. It asks you to be careful and take your time, because one mistake and you might die. Every weapon can stun you and leave you vulnerable if you take too many hits.

Knowledge of the enemy, the weapon and the spells he is using. If you can afford to trade blows with him judging by the poise the enemy has.

Knowledge of movement. How can I backstab/avoid being backstabbed? How can I exploit the weaknesses of the weapon wielded by the enemy? How can I make up for the downsides of the weapon I am wielding? How can I avoid the spells the enemy is throwing at me?

Everything is clear and HIGHLY telegraphed (almost no spell has less than 2 seconds cast time). That’s how an ANIMATION based gameplay should be.

However, said that, I think the problem lies in TTK. I don’t think the solution is just to gut it to 10 seconds, which is still crazy. But it shouldn’t be of 5 minutes either.

However, I don’t think “fair” duels on open spaces are balanced either. In those fights ranged damage is king (and mesmers are everywhere).

redslion,
err a bit off topic but will Dark Souls migrate from gfwl to steamworks? because gfwl will close shop in 6 months. the game would be dead by then if they did not migrate.

on topic, what if there is a “push the bomb from middle point into enemy base” map, based on the snowball mayhem design. and each team has a trebuchet to stop the other team from advancing up the hill to their base, with repair kits located in the single middle point?

people would still roll spirit rangers and minion masters necros? a well fired treb will wipe them all no?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

redslion,
err a bit off topic but will Dark Souls migrate from gfwl to steamworks? because gfwl will close shop in 6 months. the game would be dead by then if they did not migrate.

So I heard. I hope it works, Dark Souls pvp is already a problem because of lag and invasions taking ages for both invaders and invaded. This problem will be addressed in Dark Souls II, which will make pvp much more important (you will be eligible for invasion at any time in the game, no matter if you are human or hollow… like always, we should prepare to die and remember no resource truly matters XD).

Back in topic, there are a lot of possible gamemodes.

One idea might be to borrow from WvWvW and make assault modes, where one team defends and the other attacks.

The problem in general is that the game might not be balanced for something different than pvp conquest, but that might be addressed mostly by changing the shape of the map and game mechanics.