Guild Wars 2

Again, just because something is annoying doesn’t mean it’s broken. I’m assuming you guys are still talking about condi D/D. Let’s list off the cons of the build:

-Very gimmicky
-Has evade frame breaks (note that you can also time skills right before their normal dodge ends and still hit them at the end of the animation)
-Pretty squishy
-basically 1 condi as source of damage
-melee range
-Can’t do much else but spam 3

They’re like flies, people. Annoying but can be swatted down.

Still don’t see why so many of you guys are unwilling to learn the downsides of this build.

@Fluffball: Yes, it was so broken before. Must be why so many people ran it in pro league.

Oh wait…

Edit: I still don’t think you guys understand that I don’t run condi. I actually hate it, as yes it is annoying to fight. Still doesn’t make it OP, folks. It’s basically a free kill in PvP for me.

alchemyst.2165:

-Can’t do much else but spam 3

That’s why it is broken. Broken does not mean it’s overwpowered. But pressing 3 the whole game and beeing 95% of the time invulnerable is broken.

Screw daredevil. Metric ton of dodge on top of a stomp that deals damage comparable to backstab but without the “skill” requirement.

They can just jump on someone with basiliks for 70-80% of their health and if it goes south, just troll back out with resets until you run them out of cooldowns because the thief’s evades and heals are on a much shorter cooldown than his opponent’s defensives.

WvW is pretty much littered by these thieves. They don’t remotely pay for mistakes unless another thief gibs them.

alchemyst.2165:

@Fluffball: Yes, it was so broken before. Must be why so many people ran it in pro league.

That’s not a good point and you know it. Look how many tourney players ran turret engi. Only 1 team and that was just to prove to people like you that it actually was a problem.

Forestnator.6298:

Broken does not mean it’s overwpowered. But pressing 3 the whole game and beeing 95% of the time invulnerable is broken.

FrownyClown.8402:

I think this is what they use. Basically they spam dagger 3 and evades, while maintaining endurance from the heal and signet.

Pretty close. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAoYn0MBFOh9OBGmC8PhFqiaO77+wvLBCgDw7C+gBA provides more upkeep on initiative, evades and endurance and is likely the build being used.

This needs looked at by Anet. It not being widespread until just now and other classes having potentially overpowered builds does not excuse this.

Are people really having a problem with this? lmao

It not an OP build. It rather easy to neutralize. Worry about the builds that have few if any counters that can win any matchup. Do not worry about builds that irritate or the last one just lost to.

No one using such a build presses “3” all the time. They do that they run out of INI. Such builds will use 6 to 10 of the available skills and utilities which is hardly “pressing three all the time”. if they press three all the time step back and you will take 0 damage. You do not even have to use a dodge to avoid this damage.

If it a condition build using daggers there simply no need to use heartseeker or CND as there no point. Those are for power builds as they do little good for a condition build. There is little use for number 4 as they already cripple with the uncatchable thief trait and the dodge.

In all the weapons available to the thief only two are really suitable for condition builds. In those builds the skills that apply that use conditions will be used more. What is the issue here? Power builds use unload more then any other p/p skill. Its just the nature of hybrid sets on a class that uses INI rather than cooldowns.

In making it onerous to use such then the weapon itself will be unsuitable as a condition weapon meaning less build diversity.

There no reason ANET should have to “look at the build” unless the build is dominating all matchups. If they spread more conditions along all skills in the p/d or d/d set there would be less onus to rely on a few skills to apply the same but than the same people who complained about “evade spam” who complained about “stealth spam” who complained about “aa spam” would than complain about “condition spam”.

D/P is still the most popular set for the thief and on that set virtually every skill is used with regularity. people still complain about it so let us not pretend this about “how many buttons are pressed”. The people complaining do so for the sake of it.

FrownyClown.8402:

Curennos.9307:

Would help knowing the details of the build. I know there’s a chunk of vulnerability frames at the end of the staff 5 Vault skill…but IIRC there’s one more ability out there somewhere used for the ‘perma’ evade thingy.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAoYn8lCFOh9OBGmC8PhFqiqrnCgGw7C+gtbO77+wH

I think this is what they use. Basically they spam dagger 3 and evades, while maintaining endurance from the heal and signet.

You’re dead on with the build that is the one, all the evades almost no break in dodges

Haven’t really encountered many perma evade thieves, or if there was they weren’t very good.

However, aren’t there plenty of things that currently chew through evades or outright deny them? A few Guard, Necro and rune stuff comes to mind.

Talonblaze.3175:

Haven’t really encountered many perma evade thieves, or if there was they weren’t very good.

However, aren’t there plenty of things that currently chew through evades or outright deny them? A few Guard, Necro and rune stuff comes to mind.

As well as Warrior Eviserate still being undodgeable

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

at least these “permaevade” thieves are pressing some buttons as opposed to scrappers running around 1v2ing thanks to a bottomless source of stability, high protection uptime, and hammer outputting trueshot/backstab/eviscerate-tier damage on literally every attack (which is why they can play Paladin’s Amulet while no other profession can take the critical damage loss). not to mention the fact that Gyros have made scrapper into turret engie 2.0 except now the turrets can move, don’t die as easily, can stunlock you, and further make scrapper immune to almost all CC thanks to Final Salvo + Perfectly Weighted.

most scrappers even admit that the profession has become so automatic it’s no longer fun to play and yet people are whining about a build that has no way to do ANYTHING against someone properly kiting them. it’s a lame build to play against but it has clear weaknesses unlike actual problematic builds like scrapper’s meta build.

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

Well 1) your’e exaggerating wildly, and 2) both builds are off balance. The thief one is worse because it require less game knowledge to perform at the 100% efficiency level.

Fluffball.8307:

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

Well 1) your’e exaggerating wildly, and 2) both builds are off balance. The thief one is worse because it require less game knowledge to perform at the 100% efficiency level.

Yeah Sinject! You have to click the buttons to set up all that autopilot scrapper gameplay. Planes don’t just build themselves you know! Stop wildly exaggerating!

Fluffball.8307:

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

Well 1) your’e exaggerating wildly, and 2) both builds are off balance. The thief one is worse because it require less game knowledge to perform at the 100% efficiency level.

im not exaggerating anything. compare backstab/true shot/eviscerate to each one of scrapper’s hammer attacks save for the autos.

scrapper has:

• a ridiculous amount of cc through Hammer/Gyros/Impact Savant
• a ridiculous amount of stability/stunbreaks through Perfectly Weighted/Final Salvo/Gyro Toolbelt Skills
• a ridiculous amount of damage mitigation through Protection Injection, Paladin’s Amulet, Bulwark Gyro, Self Regulating Defenses, Defense Field, Reconstruction Field, and Hammer 2-5 skills.
• a ridiculous amount of damage through Hammer alone.
• a ridiculous amount of boon application, i.e. Might.
• a lot of steady condition cleanse

all while being the most passive profession in the game by far. no matter what profession or build you’re playing, scrapper has an answer defensively and offensively that simply outweighs whatever pressure you can apply.

this specific thief build has:

• a ridiculous amount of evades
• a lot of bleeds

i don’t see how the two compare in the slightest. this thief build is good for nothing but stomping people in hot join; the reason it takes less skill to “max out” is because it has a low skill ceiling and a matching low-reward level whereas scrapper’s imbalances carries it even in the highest levels of play.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Edit: If i see you saying ‘’this is the most stupid idea’’ (thief should not contest bases) without a reason , this will break my heart and soon yours :P

This is the most stupid idea. Make it to where you can’t contest through blocks / blur / even your dodges and we have a deal. If that isn’t good enough, come and break it.

Topher.5631:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Edit: If i see you saying ‘’this is the most stupid idea’’ (thief should not contest bases) without a reason , this will break my heart and soon yours :P

This is the most stupid idea. Make it to where you can’t contest through blocks / blur / even your dodges and we have a deal. If that isn’t good enough, come and break it.

Make it so then
Which do you think at the end , will have more blcok/evades and hurt more for not capturing the bases ? :P

http://img.medscape.com/thumbnail_library/dt_140701_pills_in_heart_form_800x600.jpg

Edit : Going to sleep
We have a lot or round and round conversation to be made and hearts to be broken :P (if any1 thinks is smart@@ , i will force him to mature , rather than nag him slowly about what is moraly right like a woman (old))

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Talonblaze.3175:

Haven’t really encountered many perma evade thieves, or if there was they weren’t very good.

However, aren’t there plenty of things that currently chew through evades or outright deny them? A few Guard, Necro and rune stuff comes to mind.

As well as Warrior Eviserate still being undodgeable

Wait what? Tested it 5 mins ago. It is dodgeable. If you mean decapitate. The skill works slightly different. For instance if you Dodge but another player vor NPC stands between you and me there will be a second, and a wee bit delayed hit behindert said NPC. Should you just end your Dodge role behind this (un)intended target you will get hit, provided the Dodge ended. The Problem is both skills have they same animation, but decapitate has a better range due to this “jumping” effect. The DMG of this attack is spread in a narrow cone behind the first target. So you might want to Dodge diagonal away from the warrior and, as the animation takes closely the same time as a Dodge roll, do not Dodge as soon as it starts, else you come out of your roll and bite metal.

Please refrain from posting insults (even veiled ones) instead of posting a constructive argument.

This build, regardless of its use is needing toned down. This is a PvP game mode where holding or contesting points wins the match and a build that can do that whilst remaining mostly harm free is bad for the game.

The build I posted shows how bad it is, a passive 30s stunbreak that fill your endurance bar makes it so you need multiple CC skills on hand to break them and the CC needs to be instacast or the timing could be off because of the plethora of evades and dodges on hand for them. The build has multiple ways of regenerating initiative and endurance, making the “let them waste their cooldowns” argument quite invalid.

And can people stop posting that Scrappers are OP, I don’t disagree but that doesn’t excuse this build and should be reserved for its own post.

Let’s get back to the point people, I know scrapper have semi same issue but we will be derail if don’t focus on thief issue.
The build is indeed broken, the ability to be in perma evade and deal damage at the same time is too powerful. Anet has shown in the past that any class with this kind of ability is broken and will be nerf. Hope Anet did the rignt thing soon because we in pvp are crying for balance right now.

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

at least these “permaevade” thieves are pressing some buttons as opposed to scrappers running around 1v2ing thanks to a bottomless source of stability, high protection uptime, and hammer outputting trueshot/backstab/eviscerate-tier damage on literally every attack (which is why they can play Paladin’s Amulet while no other profession can take the critical damage loss). not to mention the fact that Gyros have made scrapper into turret engie 2.0 except now the turrets can move, don’t die as easily, can stunlock you, and further make scrapper immune to almost all CC thanks to Final Salvo + Perfectly Weighted.

most scrappers even admit that the profession has become so automatic it’s no longer fun to play and yet people are whining about a build that has no way to do ANYTHING against someone properly kiting them. it’s a lame build to play against but it has clear weaknesses unlike actual problematic builds like scrapper’s meta build.

lol, if Scrapper hammer attacks were truly outputing the damage of backstab/True Shot, they’d be usedin PvE raids, which they’re not.

Not that Scrappers aren’t a problem, but let’s not state outright false crap.

Zenith.7301:

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

at least these “permaevade” thieves are pressing some buttons as opposed to scrappers running around 1v2ing thanks to a bottomless source of stability, high protection uptime, and hammer outputting trueshot/backstab/eviscerate-tier damage on literally every attack (which is why they can play Paladin’s Amulet while no other profession can take the critical damage loss). not to mention the fact that Gyros have made scrapper into turret engie 2.0 except now the turrets can move, don’t die as easily, can stunlock you, and further make scrapper immune to almost all CC thanks to Final Salvo + Perfectly Weighted.

most scrappers even admit that the profession has become so automatic it’s no longer fun to play and yet people are whining about a build that has no way to do ANYTHING against someone properly kiting them. it’s a lame build to play against but it has clear weaknesses unlike actual problematic builds like scrapper’s meta build.

lol, if Scrapper hammer attacks were truly outputing the damage of backstab/True Shot, they’d be usedin PvE raids, which they’re not.

Not that Scrappers aren’t a problem, but let’s not state outright false crap.

pve viability is based on overtime damage not burst, how can you even compare…

nobody in their right mind uses backstab in pve anymore…. fyi

The only think closer to a counter against this type of behavior is warding effects.

But there’s a problem with them. They don’t last enough. When a walling effect knows them down, they can quickly use an evading stun breaker.

Look like there has to be a way between dodges and evading skills.

But permanent evades are not the worse offenders, as even with constant Vaults there’s limited and avoidable damage.

Worse than permanent evades are permanent boons and stun spam that makes stun breakers pointless. Without that, any change to evades would hit thieves hard while leaving worse things untouched.

So along any changes done to evades, two more must be added:

• Removing a boon or condition must cause an effect that prevents them from being re-applied for 2s. You use a boon removal on someone with Protection, the protection icon goes grey for 2 seconds, and during that time the character can’t get benefit from protection and it’s immune to protection, then the grey icon disappears and protection can be applied again.
• Stun breakers must give at least 0.5s of immunity to CCs (preferably 0.75s), regardless of any stability they may provide or not.

Once that’s done, you can also give a 0.5 to 0.75s window during which further evades are not possible.

Hlord.5940:

Let’s get back to the point people, I know scrapper have semi same issue but we will be derail if don’t focus on thief issue.
The build is indeed broken, the ability to be in perma evade and deal damage at the same time is too powerful. Anet has shown in the past that any class with this kind of ability is broken and will be nerf. Hope Anet did the rignt thing soon because we in pvp are crying for balance right now.

Crying for balance, lets nerf something not even seen past ruby!

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Crying for balance, lets nerf something not even seen past ruby!

Broken is not equal overpowered and changing is not equal nerfing. What is wrong with you kids today?

alchemyst.2165:

@Killthehealersffs No I am not Amaterasu, and I still find very big gaps in your logic.

Last post here: D/D Condi is shut down easily and is not competitive, at least in mid-high ruby and above. If you’re still seeing them frequently I’m wondering where you are in placement, which says a lot. Not trying to insult anyone’s skill, I’m just saying what I observe.

There is not a gap in my logic
Yours is flawed about why they gave EVADE FRAMES n weapons skills , and i question you why you defend overjealously a spec you dont play .

Maybe you stuck in there ?
Or you are using this spec on higher tier , late at night ? :P
Even for the perma evade s/d + haste-spam Pistolwhip (had evade frames) ppl used to say the same .
Just w8 there once more , till some1 streamer-big name start using it and the rest of SHEEPS will suddenly flip flop and change their opinion and say that this spec need High Skill :P

When some1 is offering an alternative , for a ’’backfire’’ without effecting damage/survibility , you should sit down and discuss it , or i will discuss things differently if i see some1 making posts over posts about defending something they dont play and insult others :P

EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY GOD kitten T ELE GOD kitten T ELE

Silberfederling.9302:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Talonblaze.3175:

Haven’t really encountered many perma evade thieves, or if there was they weren’t very good.

However, aren’t there plenty of things that currently chew through evades or outright deny them? A few Guard, Necro and rune stuff comes to mind.

As well as Warrior Eviserate still being undodgeable

Wait what? Tested it 5 mins ago. It is dodgeable. If you mean decapitate. The skill works slightly different. For instance if you Dodge but another player vor NPC stands between you and me there will be a second, and a wee bit delayed hit behindert said NPC. Should you just end your Dodge role behind this (un)intended target you will get hit, provided the Dodge ended. The Problem is both skills have they same animation, but decapitate has a better range due to this “jumping” effect. The DMG of this attack is spread in a narrow cone behind the first target. So you might want to Dodge diagonal away from the warrior and, as the animation takes closely the same time as a Dodge roll, do not Dodge as soon as it starts, else you come out of your roll and bite metal.

I haven’t seen any patch notes saying they fixed the bug but when I was using Blurred Frenzy Eviserate was still hitting me which should be impossible.

Up, Right, Left, Down. All are wonderful methods of moving out of the way.

So I was playing around with this build for a bit and have to preface this by saying it is one of the cheesiest builds I have ever played, on the level of minion master and turret engi. However there are certainly weaknesses.

I would say the biggest weakness of this build is retaliation. It is damage that not only goes through evades but hits the thieves 2 primary damage dealing skills particularly hard. Death blossom and impaling lotus are each 3 separate hits, so retaliation procs 3 times for each of these skills. Combine that with thief healing potential is not terribly great, this can wear the thief down fairly efficiently. Of course the build still uses bountiful theft, so retaliation must be able to be reapplied frequently, or have enough cover boons so that retal isn’t stolen reliably. Mesmers with traited retaliation on phantasm is extremely effective in this regard, as a thief can’t strip retaliation off of all the phantasms especially when the mesmer’s stolen item is too good to pass up. Other things that work well would be: scrapper with elixer b, elixer b proc, and light field combos; warrior with spiked armor which is too short of a cd for steal to take it every time; guardian with numerous sources especially on gs.

Another weakness of this build is the lack of ability to deal with ranged pressure from kiting opponents. It spams a crazy amount of cripple in melee range making it very tough to stick to in this regard. However against ranged opponents it doesn’t have nearly the sticking power as most thief builds with only steal and heart seeker as gap closers.

The last major weakness is against builds that have frequent small condi cleanses such as diamond skin elementalist, and ironically escapists absolution dare devil. It simply doesn’t have the cover conditions to allow the bleeds to stick. Watching two condi dd thieves going at each other is about as exciting as watching 2 bunker guards duke it out since they are clearing conditions off each other with every dodge.

As for the notion that the build is weak to cc, it really isn’t, it has 2 on demand stun-breaks and an additional one on auto proc. Bandits defense is on a measly 12s cool-down traited so very few builds can apply enough cc to lock this build down.

Out side of these weaknesses the only thing you can do against this thief build is to just out play them by hitting them after the death blossom evade frames end. While this puts the burden of skill on the non thief, it can be done.

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

at least these “permaevade” thieves are pressing some buttons as opposed to scrappers running around 1v2ing thanks to a bottomless source of stability, high protection uptime, and hammer outputting trueshot/backstab/eviscerate-tier damage on literally every attack (which is why they can play Paladin’s Amulet while no other profession can take the critical damage loss). not to mention the fact that Gyros have made scrapper into turret engie 2.0 except now the turrets can move, don’t die as easily, can stunlock you, and further make scrapper immune to almost all CC thanks to Final Salvo + Perfectly Weighted.

most scrappers even admit that the profession has become so automatic it’s no longer fun to play and yet people are whining about a build that has no way to do ANYTHING against someone properly kiting them. it’s a lame build to play against but it has clear weaknesses unlike actual problematic builds like scrapper’s meta build.

lol, if Scrapper hammer attacks were truly outputing the damage of backstab/True Shot, they’d be usedin PvE raids, which they’re not.

Not that Scrappers aren’t a problem, but let’s not state outright false crap.

pve viability is based on overtime damage not burst, how can you even compare…

nobody in their right mind uses backstab in pve anymore…. fyi

Actually, D/D is still used in PvE, and it’s slightly higher than staff DPS (albeit harder and easier to mess up as a result), and it uses Backstab.

What more do you need to be updated on?

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

at least these “permaevade” thieves are pressing some buttons as opposed to scrappers running around 1v2ing thanks to a bottomless source of stability, high protection uptime, and hammer outputting trueshot/backstab/eviscerate-tier damage on literally every attack (which is why they can play Paladin’s Amulet while no other profession can take the critical damage loss). not to mention the fact that Gyros have made scrapper into turret engie 2.0 except now the turrets can move, don’t die as easily, can stunlock you, and further make scrapper immune to almost all CC thanks to Final Salvo + Perfectly Weighted.

most scrappers even admit that the profession has become so automatic it’s no longer fun to play and yet people are whining about a build that has no way to do ANYTHING against someone properly kiting them. it’s a lame build to play against but it has clear weaknesses unlike actual problematic builds like scrapper’s meta build.

lol, if Scrapper hammer attacks were truly outputing the damage of backstab/True Shot, they’d be usedin PvE raids, which they’re not.

Not that Scrappers aren’t a problem, but let’s not state outright false crap.

pve viability is based on overtime damage not burst, how can you even compare…

nobody in their right mind uses backstab in pve anymore…. fyi

Actually, D/D is still used in PvE, and it’s slightly higher than staff DPS (albeit harder and easier to mess up as a result), and it uses Backstab.

What more do you need to be updated on?

last time i checked people used staff in raids….

point is you compare burst to dps… which are 2 different things

SO, how do you expect thieves to survive this madness of condi/aoe/CC spam that was introduced with HoT?

Downed state?

ArthurDent.9538:

So I was playing around with this build for a bit and have to preface this by saying it is one of the cheesiest builds I have ever played, on the level of minion master and turret engi. However there are certainly weaknesses.

I would say the biggest weakness of this build is retaliation. It is damage that not only goes through evades but hits the thieves 2 primary damage dealing skills particularly hard. Death blossom and impaling lotus are each 3 separate hits, so retaliation procs 3 times for each of these skills. Combine that with thief healing potential is not terribly great, this can wear the thief down fairly efficiently. Of course the build still uses bountiful theft, so retaliation must be able to be reapplied frequently, or have enough cover boons so that retal isn’t stolen reliably. Mesmers with traited retaliation on phantasm is extremely effective in this regard, as a thief can’t strip retaliation off of all the phantasms especially when the mesmer’s stolen item is too good to pass up. Other things that work well would be: scrapper with elixer b, elixer b proc, and light field combos; warrior with spiked armor which is too short of a cd for steal to take it every time; guardian with numerous sources especially on gs.

Another weakness of this build is the lack of ability to deal with ranged pressure from kiting opponents. It spams a crazy amount of cripple in melee range making it very tough to stick to in this regard. However against ranged opponents it doesn’t have nearly the sticking power as most thief builds with only steal and heart seeker as gap closers.

The last major weakness is against builds that have frequent small condi cleanses such as diamond skin elementalist, and ironically escapists absolution dare devil. It simply doesn’t have the cover conditions to allow the bleeds to stick. Watching two condi dd thieves going at each other is about as exciting as watching 2 bunker guards duke it out since they are clearing conditions off each other with every dodge.

As for the notion that the build is weak to cc, it really isn’t, it has 2 on demand stun-breaks and an additional one on auto proc. Bandits defense is on a measly 12s cool-down traited so very few builds can apply enough cc to lock this build down.

Out side of these weaknesses the only thing you can do against this thief build is to just out play them by hitting them after the death blossom evade frames end. While this puts the burden of skill on the non thief, it can be done.

Can you not drop condi AOE on your own feet and watch them bounce around in it ?

Oh, a build that finally renders the cc-spam useless? That’s a good thing, this CC fest should be toned down big time. I would not even shed a tear if it was removed altogether.

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

sinject.4607:

can’t believe there are people complaining about a gimmicky thief build when the meta scrapper build plays itself and yet is able to reliably beat everything in a 1v1 and output stupid amounts of CC/sustain in teamfights while being essentially immune to any form of burst save for a lucky condition bomb.

at least these “permaevade” thieves are pressing some buttons as opposed to scrappers running around 1v2ing thanks to a bottomless source of stability, high protection uptime, and hammer outputting trueshot/backstab/eviscerate-tier damage on literally every attack (which is why they can play Paladin’s Amulet while no other profession can take the critical damage loss). not to mention the fact that Gyros have made scrapper into turret engie 2.0 except now the turrets can move, don’t die as easily, can stunlock you, and further make scrapper immune to almost all CC thanks to Final Salvo + Perfectly Weighted.

most scrappers even admit that the profession has become so automatic it’s no longer fun to play and yet people are whining about a build that has no way to do ANYTHING against someone properly kiting them. it’s a lame build to play against but it has clear weaknesses unlike actual problematic builds like scrapper’s meta build.

lol, if Scrapper hammer attacks were truly outputing the damage of backstab/True Shot, they’d be usedin PvE raids, which they’re not.

Not that Scrappers aren’t a problem, but let’s not state outright false crap.

pve viability is based on overtime damage not burst, how can you even compare…

nobody in their right mind uses backstab in pve anymore…. fyi

Actually, D/D is still used in PvE, and it’s slightly higher than staff DPS (albeit harder and easier to mess up as a result), and it uses Backstab.

What more do you need to be updated on?

last time i checked people used staff in raids….

point is you compare burst to dps… which are 2 different things

You checked ages ago, then. D/D is still ahead slightly. People just pick staff because it’s braindead compared to dagger which requires some modicum of initiative management in PvE.

It’s not too difficult to beat, Just wait for nightmare rune fear to proc and then either chain cc or burst them down in that time.

The problem is that they dont need use #2 – #5 skills. Evades and aa do all job. They can kill but cant be hitted or killed.

JETWING.2759:

The problem is that they dont need use #2 – #5 skills. Evades and aa do all job. They can kill but cant be hitted or killed.

Wrong. They use skill 3 to evade as well, and maybe occassionally use the AA. They don’t use 2, 4, 5 because those are all power skills with no condition damage.

Silberfederling.9302:

alchemyst.2165:

I love how people are just now calling broken now that thief is meta. Thief has literally the same amount of evades as it did when HoT came out, but nobody is crying until it’s meta.

Hello may i present to you: the warrior

Or condi mesmer tbh.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

JETWING.2759:

The problem is that they dont need use #2 – #5 skills. Evades and aa do all job. They can kill but cant be hitted or killed.

Wrong. They use skill 3 to evade as well, and maybe occassionally use the AA. They don’t use 2, 4, 5 because those are all power skills with no condition damage.

Works better with conditions, but power specs also spamm evades as a kind of invul.

Evade may be better balanced is ruled for some base stat. Then some classes could need choose between spend resources in edurance regen(or max edurance) or damage.

JETWING.2759:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

JETWING.2759:

The problem is that they dont need use #2 – #5 skills. Evades and aa do all job. They can kill but cant be hitted or killed.

Wrong. They use skill 3 to evade as well, and maybe occassionally use the AA. They don’t use 2, 4, 5 because those are all power skills with no condition damage.

Works better with conditions, but power specs also spamm evades as a kind of invul.

If you’re talking about power d/d, lol cuz that build has been dead for like 3 years in PvP.

alchemyst.2165:

I love how people are just now calling broken now that thief is meta. Thief has literally the same amount of evades as it did when HoT came out, but nobody is crying until it’s meta.

I was annoyed with it when I first ran into it, easy enough to deal with usually, if I’m on a class that has the tools I’d need to do so.
D/D thieves are pretty easy to outmaneuver in my opinion.

What does annoy me still though, is staff “five” (why did 5 get censored???), hits like a truck, pretty spammable, and built in evade, I only have so many tools to counter, and even if I do, they can likely disengage before I can down them (assuming theyre good)

Ven Zehn.6573:

alchemyst.2165:

I love how people are just now calling broken now that thief is meta. Thief has literally the same amount of evades as it did when HoT came out, but nobody is crying until it’s meta.

I was annoyed with it when I first ran into it, easy enough to deal with usually, if I’m on a class that has the tools I’d need to do so.
D/D thieves are pretty easy to outmaneuver in my opinion.

What does annoy me still though, is staff “five” (why did 5 get censored???), hits like a truck, pretty spammable, and built in evade, I only have so many tools to counter, and even if I do, they can likely disengage before I can down them (assuming theyre good)

You can walk out of Vault. Good thieves hardly use it other than cleaving downed.

death blossom has a .1 frame at end of the roll where thief is lock in a fix point where he can trigger a dodge to removed frame loss to .1 frame or wait .2 frame to start the next death blossom.

pistol whip has .3 frame open frame

flanking strike is .2 frame

wtihdraw has .1 frame

roll for initiative has .1 frame

disabling shot is .1 frame

vault has .3 frame

all skills have .1 frame activation time that you can intrup.

mlg tip for dodging. if you single press it faster then quing up your dodge by spaming it. you have a loss of .1 frames <3

anyways i hope that help you in your match up

I agree with OP this is an OP thing and it should be nerfed simple as that. People can bring in extremes how to counter is and saying or else its simple L2P, but in truth they are only talking here and nothing else then talk talk talk talk. Forum warriors lol

I met two thieves with that build so far. First one caught me completely off-guard in Sapphire (I also main a thief) and destroyed me 1v1, second one was just tonight and rolled over him completely using Steal (daze trait), Basilisk Venom and timed Headshots (not all hit but one is enough to dash out a bit of damage). I wouldn’t say they are that OP. Easily countered, in my eyes, by an engi for example.

As for PvE d/d thief – backstabs all day. Especially after the rework of Lead Attacks.

winterchillz.2564:

I met two thieves with that build so far. First one caught me completely off-guard in Sapphire (I also main a thief) and destroyed me 1v1, second one was just tonight and rolled over him completely using Steal (daze trait), Basilisk Venom and timed Headshots (not all hit but one is enough to dash out a bit of damage). I wouldn’t say they are that OP. Easily countered, in my eyes, by an engi for example.

As for PvE d/d thief – backstabs all day. Especially after the rework of Lead Attacks.

You also have then faced 1 good thief and a bad one and that makes a difference.

snarfrificus.4230:

winterchillz.2564:

I met two thieves with that build so far. First one caught me completely off-guard in Sapphire (I also main a thief) and destroyed me 1v1, second one was just tonight and rolled over him completely using Steal (daze trait), Basilisk Venom and timed Headshots (not all hit but one is enough to dash out a bit of damage). I wouldn’t say they are that OP. Easily countered, in my eyes, by an engi for example.

As for PvE d/d thief – backstabs all day. Especially after the rework of Lead Attacks.

You also have then faced 1 good thief and a bad one and that makes a difference.

Just like with any other class. Problem for thief is, you don’t have as much room for error, one CC, second CC, on the third one (if you are still alive) you are history.

So no, I main a thief, and I don’t agree with how OP people claim the build is.

I love how these threads keep getting split into both a staff and a dual dagger sub thread.

Tested both yesterday a lot, neither are op. Staff is decent at teamfights where thief is usually horrible and condi dag is very gimmicky but slow to kill.

Still think the normal d/p +sb thief with dash decapping is way better team wise.

ps: kept getting dragon hunters in my group with 10 points in game yelling at the thief(s) for the loss, but they wouldn’t switch to a different character when dh are in bad shape and especially when I vs’ed 2 scapper and an ele. I’m like don’t blame the thief play a decent class and reroll especially when 3/5 of their team is a direct counter to u ^^

This is slightly above average again, worst players blame the thief still, all is how it should be. Nothing has changed.