Guild Wars 2

This build is one of those things that ruin the PvP experience. I can’t count the number of times my team died to this (mainly roaming thieves that don’t have condition removal)

lol, right now thieves get hard countered by

engi, guards and warriors
everything else is 50/50
including mesmer, they all have perma invuln + blocks but hey
thieves always get hated on, what’s new?

darres.8203:

lol, right now thieves get hard countered by

engi, guards and warriors
everything else is 50/50
including mesmer, they all have perma invuln + blocks but hey
thieves always get hated on, what’s new?

Cause those classes have downtime on their invuln + blocks and evade thieves don’t. Also, the fact that you are saying that thieves “always” get hated on make me believe you are a biased thief player. Every class gets hated on by players from other classes.

thieves have down time in between evades lol…it runs out at somepoint
sigh

play couple high end games, no one complaints about thief dodges there
not high end,
even mid tier people won’t complain about that

There’s lots of things in the game that needs nerfing, not all of it obvious. I can stack unreal levels of poison with shortbow 4 and the warrior stolen skill for example. It’s one of the best anti-rezzer cleaving combos in the game.

darres.8203:

thieves have down time in between evades lol…it runs out at somepoint
sigh

play couple high end games, no one complaints about thief dodges there
not high end,
even mid tier people won’t complain about that

That downtime is too low. You won’t kill him in that short time window and the sacrifice for the evade is not high enough. You should either do damage which costs energy or evade which costs energy – not both while regenerating energy.

gebrechen.5643:

darres.8203:

thieves have down time in between evades lol…it runs out at somepoint
sigh

play couple high end games, no one complaints about thief dodges there
not high end,
even mid tier people won’t complain about that

That downtime is too low. You won’t kill him in that short time window and the sacrifice for the evade is not high enough. You should either do damage which costs energy or evade which costs energy – not both while regenerating energy.

thieves die…ALL the time
if they’re as op as you say
you’d see a d/d thief on every team in the proleague, you know, the players who actually know how this game works
let me know when you find ONE d/d dodge thief in the proleague and we’ll talk about it

Edit: also, if they’re as op as you say
people would ask them to swap when they see more than 1 thief on a team
but guess what?
people rage when thieves don’t swap

gebrechen.5643:

darres.8203:

thieves have down time in between evades lol…it runs out at somepoint
sigh

play couple high end games, no one complaints about thief dodges there
not high end,
even mid tier people won’t complain about that

That downtime is too low. You won’t kill him in that short time window and the sacrifice for the evade is not high enough. You should either do damage which costs energy or evade which costs energy – not both while regenerating energy.

You haven’t realized yet that killing him is not the point of the game?

Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.

4k backstabs so OP nerf anet pls

BeepBoopBop.5403:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.

4k backstabs so OP nerf anet pls

backstab confirmed for dodge, thanks for teaching me something new
I was rather talking about bounding dodge/vault/etc, but like I mentioned, I don’t think nerfs are necessary there either, just that it would be a better to point to start at than reducing the amount of dodges a thief has, should anet decide they need to tone it down…

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.

4k backstabs so OP nerf anet pls

backstab confirmed for dodge, thanks for teaching me something new
I was rather talking about bounding dodge/vault/etc, but like I mentioned, I don’t think nerfs are necessary there either, just that it would be a better to point to start at than reducing the amount of dodges a thief has, should anet decide they need to tone it down…

Thief sees some play and people immediately call for nerfs its hilarious. Please, tell me where you plan to buff thief then if you’re going to gut it’s damage to trash tier again.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.

4k backstabs so OP nerf anet pls

backstab confirmed for dodge, thanks for teaching me something new
I was rather talking about bounding dodge/vault/etc, but like I mentioned, I don’t think nerfs are necessary there either, just that it would be a better to point to start at than reducing the amount of dodges a thief has, should anet decide they need to tone it down…

Thief sees some play and people immediately call for nerfs its hilarious. Please, tell me where you plan to buff thief then if you’re going to gut it’s damage to trash tier again.

I’m sorry what the kitten are you on about? lmao
I’m not even saying thief needs nerfs

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.

4k backstabs so OP nerf anet pls

backstab confirmed for dodge, thanks for teaching me something new
I was rather talking about bounding dodge/vault/etc, but like I mentioned, I don’t think nerfs are necessary there either, just that it would be a better to point to start at than reducing the amount of dodges a thief has, should anet decide they need to tone it down…

Thief sees some play and people immediately call for nerfs its hilarious. Please, tell me where you plan to buff thief then if you’re going to gut it’s damage to trash tier again.

I’m sorry what the kitten are you on about? lmao
I’m not even saying thief needs nerfs

“Don’t really see the problem with thieves but if at all they should look at the amounts of damage thieves can deal while dodging so much instead of the dodges themselves.”

Suggesting they “look at amounts of damage thieves can deal” isn’t suggesting a nerf? You are suggesting a probable change, and I seriously doubt you mean a buff.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

You haven’t realized yet that killing him is not the point of the game?

So if killing him isn’t point of the game why were bunkers nerfed?

thieves die…ALL the time
if they’re as op as you say
you’d see a d/d thief on every team in the proleague, you know, the players who actually know how this game works
let me know when you find ONE d/d dodge thief in the proleague and we’ll talk about it

Edit: also, if they’re as op as you say
people would ask them to swap when they see more than 1 thief on a team
but guess what?
people rage when thieves don’t swap

Pro league is were the balancing takes place? You mean we balance pvp around the top 1% of the players? That would be ridiculously stupid, because we all know that the pros go for optimized setups and are able to choose their builds before the matches and can make things work. That doesn’t work in pvp. You will get random players into your group playing not the best builds and you will never have a whole fotm setup. So it makes absolutely no sense to balance on the 1% which never ever happens out of pro league.

I see scrappers die, I see mesmers die, I see warriors die which based on your logic makes non of these op or too strong in a single aspect.

This makes tuning of skills from any class necessary. And the fact that you have a skill that makes you evade while dealing damage (3 bleeding stacks) for a pretty low cost of your resource (4 Initiative) very good. That’s 7 seconds of evade if you totally waste that skill with ~10 stacks of bleeding – while regenerating initiative.

So, why shouldn’t we either get back to 5 initiative costs or cut the bleed to 2 or take some damage off the skill?
Because no thief plays it in Pro League?

edit: And I know thief players are the most kitten in this game, while they still are one of the most played classes since release while any other was nerfed into oblivion at least once.

@gerbrechen

pretty sure thieves were nerfed to oblivion last season
and before that, they got nerfed every patch for 3 years straight

you don’t balance the game based on the bottom 1% players either

one only need to be HALF decent to know how easy it is to beat condi dodge spam thieves
i’ve seen maybe…3 condi thieves this season, from bottom to legend
and they lost all their games
don’t know what mmr hell you’re stuck in but that says something about you as a player
when you’re in a tier where d/d thieves are a problem and you find it difficult to deal with them

who needs to learn to play the game when you can
can just cry nerfs until you can beat them

Asking for a nerf to D/D 3 is asking to nerf the consistently single worst weapon skill thief has through the years on arguably the least competitive weapon set thief has.

gebrechen.5643:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

You haven’t realized yet that killing him is not the point of the game?

So if killing him isn’t point of the game why were bunkers nerfed?

Bunkering relies a lot on passive stats and boons such as toughness and protection. Since conquest is a point holding mode they were (are) a low risk high reward play style. If someone is going to win through conditions it should be through intelligent use of them instead of spamming. If you have two classes on a team that can hold a node 2v1 until backup can arrive. One per node and we can see how imbalanced that can potentially get.

Agemnon.4608:

gebrechen.5643:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

You haven’t realized yet that killing him is not the point of the game?

So if killing him isn’t point of the game why were bunkers nerfed?

Bunkering relies a lot on passive stats and boons such as toughness and protection. Since conquest is a point holding mode they were (are) a low risk high reward play style. If someone is going to win through conditions it should be through intelligent use of them instead of spamming. If you have two classes on a team that can hold a node 2v1 until backup can arrive. One per node and we can see how imbalanced that can potentially get.

Most condi players I go against don’t do so “intelligently”, particularly Necros being the main contender. Given most spam to make sure re-application is quick and higher than the cleansing. To the point of predictability.

Even still, they aren’t a better bunker than a Tempest.
Heck, even shocking aura makes the dodge thief have a difficult time getting off all of their offensive dodges and Tempest has more than enough cleanses to not worry. More than not, I still drive a thief away. I find the burst specs much more dangerous especially in team fights than this condi build.

It’s a gimmick build with alot of counters and only a few practical uses.
The moment they lose their momentum, they usually have to flee or die.

Most condi players I go against don’t do so “intelligently”, particularly Necros being the main contender. Given most spam to make sure re-application is quick and higher than the cleansing. To the point of predictability.

That’s the sitch I’m bringing up! If condi is going to decide it should supplement power damage and its strategic effects considered rather than stack condi and watch stuff die. When I experimented with a Viper’s Tempest for example the burning would just be enough to finish off an escaping opponent, teamfights were started in air while I’d use active skills for disengages. It’s still an inferior spec to Mender’s Tempest overall, but even so burning is used to secure a down rather than being the main source of damage. Many classes however have condi as thee damage source on top of lots of impairing condis and don’t even have to worry about cleanses.

Agemnon.4608:

That’s the sitch I’m bringing up! If condi is going to decide it should supplement power damage and its strategic effects considered rather than stack condi and watch stuff die. When I experimented with a Viper’s Tempest for example the burning would just be enough to finish off an escaping opponent, teamfights were started in air while I’d use active skills for disengages. It’s still an inferior spec to Mender’s Tempest overall, but even so burning is used to secure a down rather than being the main source of damage. Many classes however have condi as thee damage source on top of lots of impairing condis and don’t even have to worry about cleanses.

Perhaps, but there’s very few classes that use or even have the ability to do conditions intelligently. A condi ele is admittedly pretty darn rare to see and given it has access to only a few conditions (especially damaging ones) they have to be careful when and where they use their condi unlike the laundry list of spammers that are Necro, Mesmer and this one specific thief build.
I’d say this is more of an overall condition application issue than it is a thief build problem. After all this was why Diamond Skin was so popular to begin with. (Because let’s be honest, if DS was still pre-nerf, this thief build would be a joke.)

Toning down one thief build’s mindless dodging (which it will still have even if its nerfed) won’t solve the other mindless ones out there. Even the hybrids that are Burn Guardian and the Warriors I feel still are stronger contenders as well in both survivability and damage.

i made myself 1 cousse if cant beat them join them , and pray they get nerved, cousse its straight iup kittened, as dire thief permastealth , and on dagger pistol 5 , and then 3 times pres 2 atack, and do same thing , so kittening easy , and cant be defeated, its straight up , bullkitten spec,