Guild Wars 2

I don’t see how anyone could disagree with this, it just encourages bad habits, bad behavior, dumbs down the game and let’s lesser skilled players stand a chance in sitations where they shouldn’t.

It’s bad for the future of the game and the competitive scene, and makes entry level PVP stagnant and less active because a new player will die to someone using 100% AI builds, get frustrated, and probably stop PVPing all together. Which leads to a smaller player base, and less potential new teams that could be competing in high level play.

The only problem I face is that I sometimes target the pet / turrets where I want to hit the player.

Make players prioritise over AI, that’s my 2 cents.

Your conclusion doesn’t make sense. Dying to ai is a frustrating prospect, but that’s a matter of strength. I don’t think anyone would be complaining about the AI if it didn’t have the STRENGTH to kill you. If turrets were peashooters or got knocked over by a stiff breeze coming their way, I don’t think you’d be making the same suggestion.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Your conclusion doesn’t make sense. Dying to ai is a frustrating prospect, but that’s a matter of strength. I don’t think anyone would be complaining about the AI if it didn’t have the STRENGTH to kill you. If turrets were peashooters or got knocked over by a stiff breeze coming their way, I don’t think you’d be making the same suggestion.

If they were weak, no one would be dying to them and thus no one would get frustrated so yes, that’s the point. That’s exactly why I said they shouldn’t deal damage in PVP.

I disagree because most AI builds lack certain givens of other builds, usually defensive maneuvers, cc breaks, mobility, and non-pet utilities. It’s a totally different way to play, you control enemies to allow your pets to be fully effective. Pet builds focus on controlling enemies and looking out for their own back and have to make sure they’re in the best spot at all times because they lack board cover.

Unlike say, dps builds, who have mobility, cc breaks, aegis, blinds, various things like this, they have more defensive utility to support their own damage game. Personally, I think insta-gibbing glassis more toxic, personally, but it’s part of the game.

People have two problems. One, AI deals damage where as more “passive” or even active defenses only make you live longer, it’s easy to see why one hurts new players more, but thst doesn’t make it bad, and yes, in many cases it would be nice to move more passive damage to active damage, but not abolish the idea of area denial pet classes all together.

Secondly, people are very tunnel visioned, thy have an ego to protect and can’t accept that there are legitimate unique ways to play. Admitting that you’re a very low level player so “x” shouldn’t exist should instantly draw a red flag. Try improving before making such harsh calls like that. I don’t “like” grenade engineers, but how silly would I sound to say “I hate them, remove grenades from pvp!” It’s very silly.

My suggestion is to stop being so close minded and don’t judge everything based on how well rabits can handle them.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

The only problem I face is that I sometimes target the pet / turrets where I want to hit the player.

Make players prioritise over AI, that’s my 2 cents.

They do. If you accidentally tab past a player, escape to deselect and retab, the first rotation will always be players but then I goes to AI.

I agree with OP and eagerly await the day they increase Rapid Fire’s damage by an additional 35% to offset the loss of pet damage given the Ranger’s class mechanic. No take backs!

ronpierce.2760:

I disagree because most AI builds lack certain givens of other builds, usually defensive maneuvers, cc breaks, mobility, and non-pet utilities. It’s a totally different way to play, you control enemies to allow your pets to be fully effective. Pet builds focus on controlling enemies and looking out for their own back and have to make sure they’re in the best spot at all times because they lack board cover.

Unlike say, dps builds, who have mobility, cc breaks, aegis, blinds, various things like this, they have more defensive utility to support their own damage game. Personally, I think insta-gibbing glassis more toxic, personally, but it’s part of the game.

People have two problems. One, AI deals damage where as more “passive” or even active defenses only make you live longer, it’s easy to see why one hurts new players more, but thst doesn’t make it bad, and yes, in many cases it would be nice to move more passive damage to active damage, but not abolish the idea of area denial pet classes all together.

Secondly, people are very tunnel visioned, thy have an ego to protect and can’t accept that there are legitimate unique ways to play. Admitting that you’re a very low level player so “x” shouldn’t exist should instantly draw a red flag. Try improving before making such harsh calls like that. I don’t “like” grenade engineers, but how silly would I sound to say “I hate them, remove grenades from pvp!” It’s very silly.

My suggestion is to stop being so close minded and don’t judge everything based on how well rabits can handle them.

That’s great, but passive damage a player doesn’t even control should never deal damage in PVP.

ronpierce.2760:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

The only problem I face is that I sometimes target the pet / turrets where I want to hit the player.

Make players prioritise over AI, that’s my 2 cents.

They do. If you accidentally tab past a player, escape to deselect and retab, the first rotation will always be players but then I goes to AI.

Learned something today, I can go back to bed!

Thanks!

Shiyo.3578:

I don’t see how anyone could disagree with this, it just encourages bad habits, bad behavior, dumbs down the game and let’s lesser skilled players stand a chance in sitations where they shouldn’t.

It’s bad for the future of the game and the competitive scene, and makes entry level PVP stagnant and less active because a new player will die to someone using 100% AI builds, get frustrated, and probably stop PVPing all together. Which leads to a smaller player base, and a potential new team that could be competing in high level play.

Yes, please.
Move all the damage my pet does to Rapid Fire.

Shiyo.3578:

ronpierce.2760:

I disagree because most AI builds lack certain givens of other builds, usually defensive maneuvers, cc breaks, mobility, and non-pet utilities. It’s a totally different way to play, you control enemies to allow your pets to be fully effective. Pet builds focus on controlling enemies and looking out for their own back and have to make sure they’re in the best spot at all times because they lack board cover.

Unlike say, dps builds, who have mobility, cc breaks, aegis, blinds, various things like this, they have more defensive utility to support their own damage game. Personally, I think insta-gibbing glassis more toxic, personally, but it’s part of the game.

People have two problems. One, AI deals damage where as more “passive” or even active defenses only make you live longer, it’s easy to see why one hurts new players more, but thst doesn’t make it bad, and yes, in many cases it would be nice to move more passive damage to active damage, but not abolish the idea of area denial pet classes all together.

Secondly, people are very tunnel visioned, thy have an ego to protect and can’t accept that there are legitimate unique ways to play. Admitting that you’re a very low level player so “x” shouldn’t exist should instantly draw a red flag. Try improving before making such harsh calls like that. I don’t “like” grenade engineers, but how silly would I sound to say “I hate them, remove grenades from pvp!” It’s very silly.

My suggestion is to stop being so close minded and don’t judge everything based on how well rabits can handle them.

That’s great, but passive damage a player doesn’t even control should never deal damage in PVP.

that would remove alot more damage than just pets and ai.

Wut but but mesmers and elementals but runes,traits .. our spent time???

All seriousness didn’t they hire a new AI guy a while ago? It should be better if they reduce time in between balance patches.

NeXeD.3042:

Shiyo.3578:

ronpierce.2760:

I disagree because most AI builds lack certain givens of other builds, usually defensive maneuvers, cc breaks, mobility, and non-pet utilities. It’s a totally different way to play, you control enemies to allow your pets to be fully effective. Pet builds focus on controlling enemies and looking out for their own back and have to make sure they’re in the best spot at all times because they lack board cover.

Unlike say, dps builds, who have mobility, cc breaks, aegis, blinds, various things like this, they have more defensive utility to support their own damage game. Personally, I think insta-gibbing glassis more toxic, personally, but it’s part of the game.

People have two problems. One, AI deals damage where as more “passive” or even active defenses only make you live longer, it’s easy to see why one hurts new players more, but thst doesn’t make it bad, and yes, in many cases it would be nice to move more passive damage to active damage, but not abolish the idea of area denial pet classes all together.

Secondly, people are very tunnel visioned, thy have an ego to protect and can’t accept that there are legitimate unique ways to play. Admitting that you’re a very low level player so “x” shouldn’t exist should instantly draw a red flag. Try improving before making such harsh calls like that. I don’t “like” grenade engineers, but how silly would I sound to say “I hate them, remove grenades from pvp!” It’s very silly.

My suggestion is to stop being so close minded and don’t judge everything based on how well rabits can handle them.

That’s great, but passive damage a player doesn’t even control should never deal damage in PVP.

that would remove alot more damage than just pets and ai.

I’m specifically talking about pets and turrets.

Shiyo.3578:

NeXeD.3042:

Shiyo.3578:

ronpierce.2760:

I disagree because most AI builds lack certain givens of other builds, usually defensive maneuvers, cc breaks, mobility, and non-pet utilities. It’s a totally different way to play, you control enemies to allow your pets to be fully effective. Pet builds focus on controlling enemies and looking out for their own back and have to make sure they’re in the best spot at all times because they lack board cover.

Unlike say, dps builds, who have mobility, cc breaks, aegis, blinds, various things like this, they have more defensive utility to support their own damage game. Personally, I think insta-gibbing glassis more toxic, personally, but it’s part of the game.

People have two problems. One, AI deals damage where as more “passive” or even active defenses only make you live longer, it’s easy to see why one hurts new players more, but thst doesn’t make it bad, and yes, in many cases it would be nice to move more passive damage to active damage, but not abolish the idea of area denial pet classes all together.

Secondly, people are very tunnel visioned, thy have an ego to protect and can’t accept that there are legitimate unique ways to play. Admitting that you’re a very low level player so “x” shouldn’t exist should instantly draw a red flag. Try improving before making such harsh calls like that. I don’t “like” grenade engineers, but how silly would I sound to say “I hate them, remove grenades from pvp!” It’s very silly.

My suggestion is to stop being so close minded and don’t judge everything based on how well rabits can handle them.

That’s great, but passive damage a player doesn’t even control should never deal damage in PVP.

that would remove alot more damage than just pets and ai.

I’m specifically talking about pets and turrets.

Well mm, turret engis are both pretty weak in high level play so they don’t really need nerfing, it’s a l2p issue if your having trouble with them.

you know half the ranger skills have built in pet machanics to ether deal weakness/extra damage aka pet hit hard because the ranger uses his skills correctly e.g hilt bash on successful hit pets next attack deals 50% more , if you swap just before hilt bash hits , the pets Leap/tail swipe / pig charge does 50% more , then if your quick enough you can signet of the hunt after the pet swap to get it to deal 150% more total 200% the max pet damage boost.

ps moment of clairty only boosts the pet when the hilt bash hits so swapping pets removes the moment of clairty buff so to get 150% you need to slot signet of the hunt taking a utiltie skill so yes this pet damage is so AI , when its us Using skills to buff our pets opening attacks. gg because without this or might or support damage from the ranger , only a few pets deal enough damage namely birds and cats , the rest do thier main damage on the opening skills or their 4th depending on the pet.

pets are much more than Just AI we control every aspect of the pet apart from there postioning but there are ways to control the postioning but that takes up too much utiltiy and traits to do so but im not going to explain how because it’ll go over your head.

the AI is fine , good at that.

so ya your passive damage the player dont even control should never deal damage goes out the window.

everyone tends to forget the skills benifit the pet also but its up to the ranger to get the set up correct and make sure the pet is in the right place by using its call back feature to drag them to the correct location.

e.g you have to kite decide before hand and call back the pet so it moves ahead of the target then make the pet attack again its much quick and more effective than letting your pet chase the target about all harry hill style (unless you want to use a trait to speed it up a bit it makes this much faster at repostioning your pet for that spike or applied weakness)

High level play makes up less than 1% of the PVP playerbase.

If new players are quitting/becoming frustrated due to boring no user interaction required pets/turrets killing them, then that’s less potential players that could be part of the high level play player base, thus killing the games competitive scene even more. You can’t have a competitive scene without a low level scene.

I have no issues with turrets or pets, they just aren’t fun to fight against.

Shiyo.3578:

High level play makes up less than 1% of the PVP playerbase.

If new players are quitting/becoming frustrated due to boring no user interaction required pets/turrets killing them, then that’s less potential players that could be part of the high level play player base, thus killing the games competitive scene even more. You can’t have a competitive scene without a low level scene.

I have no issues with turrets or pets, they just aren’t fun to fight against.

Being not high level (1% if you want to call it) doesn’t mean it’s op to the other 99%, it mostly affects people with both a lack of mechanical skill/knowledge and has poor perception and horizons.

Also, I hate to call out out, but I’m not buying that you don’t have issues with the said specs. People don’t generally go out of their way unless they have something to actually gain, and I’m sure it’s more than just “enjoyment”. Not to mention how selfish enjoyment is as a reason, considering others clearly enjoy those builds.

Not only that, but if you start making sweeping changes because some people have preferences and because very low tiers are having issues, you’re going to end up with a very raw and tasteless game. Have you considered the fact thst maybe you just have poor perception and knowledge, and need to improve your play against wise builds? Or maybe think of other reasons other players might enjoy these play styles other than “they just want to be lazy” because I can tell you that’s entirely not the case, and I’m a very dedicated Minion Master.

Super high burst out of stealth from Thief isn’t fun to fight either, I would guess that more people enter sPvP and get rocked by a Thief and quit than turrets or pets combined force out.

I have no problems with the spec, I like to look at the game from everyone’s perspective and I feel bad for new players because turrets can’t possibly be enjoyable to fight against.

I don’t understand why I need to keep repeating this. I also don’t understand the constant insults against me and my skill by numerous posters in this thread. Can you have arguments or discussion without resorting to “you’re bad” “learn to play” “it’s you”? Apparently not.

It doesn’t even matter if I have problems with the spec or not, if you honestly think non-player controlled pet builds are good for the future of the game, you are not thinking very clearly or extremely biased. Considering your sig is “minion master” and you’re a “dedicated minion master”, I’m going to go with the latter.

displacedTitan.6897:

Super high burst out of stealth from Thief isn’t fun to fight either, everyone has something they don’t like fighting against.

Exactly this. New players have a hard time dealing with stealth, clones, conditions, etc. They actually do. And most of these things are hard to learn, technically than “don’t get hit by pets as much as possible” and “know that turrets are area denial”. But if you get rid of pets, evaded, clones, stealth, procs and sigils (anything new players might have a hard time grasping) you will be left with an all warrior game using nothing but signets.

New players will die to almost anything. L O L, not just A.I hahahaha
PvP player base is so small because new players are being bullied by veteran players in practice , not because of…A.I

Shiyo.3578:

I have no problems with the spec, I like to look at the game from everyone’s perspective and I feel bad for new players because turrets can’t possibly be enjoyable to fight against.

I don’t understand why I need to keep repeating this. I also don’t understand the constant insults against me and my skill by numerous posters in this thread. Can you have arguments or discussion without resorting to “you’re bad” “learn to play” “it’s you”? Apparently not.

It doesn’t even matter if I have problems with the spec or not, if you honestly think non-player controlled pet builds are good for the future of the game, you are not thinking very clearly or extremely biased. Considering your sig is “minion master” and you’re a “dedicated minion master”, I’m going to go with the latter.

No, I just get frustrated with people who cover up their issues with “I’m thinking about the masses” when in reality, you know you’re not. In fact, I can prove it to you. You realize these “easy builds” can be used for new players to have an easier time and build confidence while learning the ropes. New players have access to them just the same.

Secondly there are TONS of confusing and annoying mechanics in the game, pets are just part of the learning curve.

Also, AI can be great for a game. Ai builds are among the most unique, and not just “the best burst build with affective clutch defenses”. Look at AI builds in other games like a Engineers in TF2 and so on. They have a unique way to play and diversify the battle field. They typically fall under the “area denial” category. It’s a perfectly valid gameplay style to have pets and focus on control to allow them to be effective and many see the appeal. Because you can’t doesn’t mean everyone else has to suffer.

Making sweeping changes and pushing players out of their preferred play styles over a vocal minority is far worse for “the future of the game” than having a few pet builds.

I don’t think anything you said is accurate.

Shiyo.3578:

I don’t think anything you said is accurate.

Very constructive

I say No, because Sikari made a much more convincing argument than the OP.

Shiyo.3578:

I don’t think anything you said is accurate.

I would say the same about most of what you said =)

ronpierce.2760:

Also, AI can be great for a game. Ai builds are among the most unique, and not just “the best burst build with affective clutch defenses”. Look at AI builds in other games like a Engineers in TF2 and so on. They have a unique way to play and diversify the battle field. They typically fall under the “area denial” category. It’s a perfectly valid gameplay style to have pets and focus on control to allow them to be effective and many see the appeal. Because you can’t doesn’t mean everyone else has to suffer.

That’s the problem with AI in GW2. Players become dependable on the AI to play, thus having a harder time to expand on individual skill. There are simply too many AI builds/variant in this game. Guardian/Necromancer/Engineers/Ranger/Mesmer, that’s like 5/8 classes, and 4/5 of those can be viable builds. This doesn’t promote new player to expand beyond the horizons, it is actually making them lazier knowing those builds can obtain easy victory.

Look at DotA2 and how they handle summons. All summons are player controlled, they’re only as useful as the player. That’s the proper way to move away from dependency on AI to fight for you. This can difficult to be transferred over to GW2 but not impossible with a revamp on the AI coding. Ranger’s pet could default to passive until F1 is pressed and would retreat once Ranger is certain distance away. Engi’s Turrets should also follow this aspect to only attack if Engi is in close proximity. Slight changes like this would encourage interaction than click and watch.

Those players will get better just by playing and eventually realize they will be better off not being tethered to their ai.

NeXeD.3042:

Those players will get better just by playing and eventually realize they will be better off not being tethered to their ai.

This, for one, but also, AI based builds have their own very real challenges that they face. They’re not be all end all power houses. In fact, they tend to have more weaknesses than benefits, and that’s what makes them enjoyable to play against harder opponents (within reason). Once people learn the basics they frequently go to things with less bindings. I can attest for this because I’ve made MANY minion masters out of people over the years, and gradually they move toward power or condition necromancy because it tends to perform better in more occasions.

While we’re at it, lets remove crits, all on-crit sigils, all random proc runes, every passive proc trait, all AoE effects that leave long lasting effects behind, soothing mist, all the passive guardian virtues, and everything else that has an effect without a direct player action being required to cause it.

Because if you want to complain about one thing that can have effects without direct player input, don’t stop at one (especially ones that are extremely weak), complain about them all.

Akikaze.1307:

ronpierce.2760:

Also, AI can be great for a game. Ai builds are among the most unique, and not just “the best burst build with affective clutch defenses”. Look at AI builds in other games like a Engineers in TF2 and so on. They have a unique way to play and diversify the battle field. They typically fall under the “area denial” category. It’s a perfectly valid gameplay style to have pets and focus on control to allow them to be effective and many see the appeal. Because you can’t doesn’t mean everyone else has to suffer.

That’s the problem with AI in GW2. Players become dependable on the AI to play, thus having a harder time to expand on individual skill. There are simply too many AI builds/variant in this game. Guardian/Necromancer/Engineers/Ranger/Mesmer, that’s like 5/8 classes, and 4/5 of those can be viable builds. This doesn’t promote new player to expand beyond the horizons, it is actually making them lazier knowing those builds can obtain easy victory.

Look at DotA2 and how they handle summons. All summons are player controlled, they’re only as useful as the player. That’s the proper way to move away from dependency on AI to fight for you. This can difficult to be transferred over to GW2 but not impossible with a revamp on the AI coding. Ranger’s pet could default to passive until F1 is pressed and would retreat once Ranger is certain distance away. Engi’s Turrets should also follow this aspect to only attack if Engi is in close proximity. Slight changes like this would encourage interaction than click and watch.

Not really.

When I first play sPvP, I died a lot because people kept killing me. It made me very frustrated. And then I learned the game through the MM build. After a while of learning sPvP, I learned what each builds does and then played those builds because playing one single build/profession is boring.

Shiyo.3578:

I don’t see how anyone could disagree with this, it just encourages bad habits, bad behavior, dumbs down the game and let’s lesser skilled players stand a chance in sitations where they shouldn’t.

It’s bad for the future of the game and the competitive scene, and makes entry level PVP stagnant and less active because a new player will die to someone using 100% AI builds, get frustrated, and probably stop PVPing all together. Which leads to a smaller player base, and less potential new teams that could be competing in high level play.

I don’t see how anyone could suggest this in an MMO with multiple classes literally designed to function with integral AI. Sounds like you should try an FPS. I would agree with the need for an AI overhaul in this game; it’s been awful since launch.

You’d just be back here the day they made that change once the damage lost from the pet was placed back on the ranger.

Bran.7425:

You’d just be back here the day they made that change once the damage lost from the pet was placed back on the ranger.

Which would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. XD Oh my lord.
The only ranger pet thing that needs changed is the “automatic” knock down from the dog. I don’t support 100% passive CCs like that. But yeah, buffed rapid fires would be glorious…

ronpierce.2760:

Bran.7425:

You’d just be back here the day they made that change once the damage lost from the pet was placed back on the ranger.

Which would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. XD Oh my lord.
The only ranger pet thing that needs changed is the “automatic” knock down from the dog. I don’t support 100% passive CCs like that. But yeah, buffed rapid fires would be glorious…

That ‘automatic’ CC is on a 40s cd (that can’t be viewed by the player) and has an activation time of 1 1/4 second if anything that already a pretty high price for knockdown that otherwise not really controllable.

Bran.7425:

ronpierce.2760:

Bran.7425:

You’d just be back here the day they made that change once the damage lost from the pet was placed back on the ranger.

Which would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. XD Oh my lord.
The only ranger pet thing that needs changed is the “automatic” knock down from the dog. I don’t support 100% passive CCs like that. But yeah, buffed rapid fires would be glorious…

That ‘automatic’ CC is on a 40s cd (that can’t be viewed by the player) and has an activation time of 1 1/4 second if anything that already a pretty high price for knockdown that otherwise not really controllable.

Doesn’t really matter. That sort of automatic thing doesn’t really have a place. if it was an automatic short immob or cripple, sure, but knockdowns/stuns, they just don’t really have a place in as a completely behind the scenes aspect to an AI unit in PVP (specifically this game’s PVP). The active ones are fine. You can justify it as “a long cooldown” but it doesn’t really change the fact that people LOSing the ranger to heal are pretty often getting hit by these semi-rng knockdowns out of anyone’s hands technically.

ronpierce.2760:

Bran.7425:

ronpierce.2760:

Bran.7425:

You’d just be back here the day they made that change once the damage lost from the pet was placed back on the ranger.

Which would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. XD Oh my lord.
The only ranger pet thing that needs changed is the “automatic” knock down from the dog. I don’t support 100% passive CCs like that. But yeah, buffed rapid fires would be glorious…

That ‘automatic’ CC is on a 40s cd (that can’t be viewed by the player) and has an activation time of 1 1/4 second if anything that already a pretty high price for knockdown that otherwise not really controllable.

Doesn’t really matter. That sort of automatic thing doesn’t really have a place. if it was an automatic short immob or cripple, sure, but knockdowns/stuns, they just don’t really have a place in as a completely behind the scenes aspect to an AI unit in PVP (specifically this game’s PVP). The active ones are fine. You can justify it as “a long cooldown” but it doesn’t really change the fact that people LOSing the ranger to heal are pretty often getting hit by these semi-rng knockdowns out of anyone’s hands technically.

Rangers have begged for the secondary pet skills to be put under player control for years. You’ll just have to live with it I’m afraid.

So your against all passive damage in general right? So lets go ahead and get rid of all damaging sigils of any type. All damaging rune effects while were at it. All traits that are a chance on hit to proc. (they require less playing than any minion skill). Remove auto attacking as a mechanic (make sure people keep actively hitting that one button).

Saying minions deal truly passive damage thats somehow more passive than any sigil,rune, or trait just shows how little you know about what it takes for pet builds to actually work. Which means your only seeing what you want to see and anything else doesn’t even exist in your eyes.

misspoke, thought it was at me. (Deleted)