Guild Wars 2

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack

That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.

Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.

However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.

And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.

The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.

A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack

That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.

Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.

However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.

And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.

The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.

A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.

Yes, because you will outrun a revenant with superspeed.

That’s not the point, though. The point is that they shouldn’t have nerfed one thing on a class but buff it on another.

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack

That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.

Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.

However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.

And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.

The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.

A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.

Yes, because you will outrun a revenant with superspeed.

That’s not the point, though. The point is that they shouldn’t have nerfed one thing on a class but buff it on another.

*They will only have superspeed for 10 seconds max and will completely susceptible to CC and Immobilize.

Anyway, yes, I agree. They’re just going to make Thieves into a problem.

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack

That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.

Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.

However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.

And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.

The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.

A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.

Yes, because you will outrun a revenant with superspeed.

That’s not the point, though. The point is that they shouldn’t have nerfed one thing on a class but buff it on another.

*They will only have superspeed for 10 seconds max and will completely susceptible to CC and Immobilize.

Anyway, yes, I agree. They’re just going to make Thieves into a problem.

10 sec max? That’s 5 AA chains, you’ll be long dead. Not to mention they can swap legends and get energy back after 9 seconds. Let’s not act like the damage wasn’t over the top. It is with most skills anyways.

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Laraley.7695:

Malchior.5732:

Mefiq.7039:

Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack

That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.

Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.

However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.

And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.

The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.

A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.

Yes, because you will outrun a revenant with superspeed.

That’s not the point, though. The point is that they shouldn’t have nerfed one thing on a class but buff it on another.

*They will only have superspeed for 10 seconds max and will completely susceptible to CC and Immobilize.

Anyway, yes, I agree. They’re just going to make Thieves into a problem.

10 sec max? That’s 5 AA chains, you’ll be long dead. Not to mention they can swap legends and get energy back after 9 seconds. Let’s not act like the damage wasn’t over the top. It is with most skills anyways.

You assume you’re standing next to him the entire time and have no answer and that he tracks you perfectly :L
Let’s also not act like they’re not full of weaknesses, like crappy heals (Infuse Light was the only one that allowed you to survive Bursts and Empowering Misery is okay, but just a much worse Consume Conditions), basically no cleanses, and few good Stun Breaks (funnily enough, by using Impossible Odds, you become incredibly vulnerable to CC since you can’t use Riposting Shadows, let alone in conjunction with other weapon skills).

Good, I hope Ele has no place in the next meta. How long has Ele dominated PvP in this game?

Every time I tune in to Phanta’s stream, he is complaining about ele, he is incredibly biased. Well tough kitten, Ele is on the way out after 2 years of being on the top. Deal with it.

Serdoc.7261:

Good, I hope Ele has no place in the next meta. How long has Ele dominated PvP in this game?

Every time I tune in to Phanta’s stream, he is complaining about ele, he is incredibly biased. Well tough kitten, Ele is on the way out after 2 years of being on the top. Deal with it.

Give or take half of the time since release of GW2. Is that a lot? I don’t think so. Thief stuck around in the spotlight for far longer than that.

foste.3098:

We need to see all of the changes before making any doom and gloom predictions even if it looks like doom, remember we saw a preview.

What i can see working for a fresh air build is a more defencive setup , that basicly deals low sustained damage but has good burst. Basically a bruiser who acts as a executioner.

the build would look something like this:
Paladin’s Amulet (1050 Power,1050 Precision, 560 Toughness, 560 Vitality) with runes of the worm ( 175 vitality 100 ferocity 7% of vit is given as a bonus to ferocity) air, earth (or water), arcane, scepter dagger (or focus).
You will have good defencive stats and gain ferocity through the rune and trait (ferocious wind), while getting a large boost to it whenever the new fresh air trait triggers (250). So you get poor critical damage, that boosts up when you got for the standard burst combo.
If you choose to go for water you can trait for stop drop and role (because of how popular necromancers will get), soothing disruption, and cleansing water and role out with cantrips (cleansing fire, armor of earth/misrform, and lighting flash) and maybe tornado as the elite for the knock backs to disrupt a team fight (or just go with fgs).

There is a viable build in there somewhere, it is just not a carbon copy of the old fresh air builds.

This is intriguing. Add in ferocious winds trait and you get ferocity: 221.45 (wurm rune ferocity + vit conversion) + 73.5 (ferocious winds) + 250 (fresh air) = 544.95 ferocity. Crit damage = 444.95/15 = 36.3% crit damage

Marauder ammy gives 560 ferocity (or 37% crit damage). The loss in damage is almost nonexistent (unless you also take wurm rune for Marauder), but the gain in survivability is huge.

Marauder gives 560 vit, Paladin gives 560 vit + 560 toughness. It’s certainly worth a shot with s/f or d/f. I’ll be giving it and a few other things a shot rather than just crying THE END.

edit: added in base vitality to ferocity calculation

^ except marauder would probably still be a better choice in that build, considering the poor toughness scaling.

Moving a chunk of my comment on another thread to here, which is where I should have made it in the first place, tbh.

Impact.2780:

I don’t think ele/tempest will be dead with the upcoming patch. I think it’s going to become a bruiser again. It’ll play more similar to the former bruiser build, utilising the various sources of vigor and that adept trait in Tempest which restores 10 endurance each time vigor is applied. This effect also extends to allies. Utilizing this, I believe it can deal with the loss of energy sigil.

Now I’m not the best at theory crafting for ele, but I did come close last time. It needs either Tempest+Arcane, or Tempest+Shouts. With Arcane, it has enough vigor application not to need shouts, so it can take water for cleanses and party support, and cantrips for self survival. It would probably take D/D.
With Shouts, it doesn’t need Arcane but will need Earth for the protection and diamond skin for the cleanse. It would lack team cleanse support with only overload water, but have self-cleanses through the new diamond skin and the focus, team healing through auras and the shout heal, and provide boon support through shouts instead of arcane like it does currently. The third trait line could then potentially be Air, making use of Fresh Air for more of a focus on damage.

Edit: Remember the low healing of water without healing power on the likely amulet choice of Paladin’s, would be supplemented by the fact that auras can heal for ~800 with no healing power, and the shout heal extends to allies which was something the old D/D lacked, so the healing support will definitely still be there in the more support oriented build of Tempest/Water/Arcane. Healing would be less with the other build option, but focus offers more defenses so it would have projectile hate, invulnerability, and of course defense through offensive pressure with Air and more damage.

Lordrosicky.5813:

He cant know that at all. Pure speculation and very narrow minded imo. Anet have tested and have metrics. I trust them

They had metrics and have tested when they introduced the current meta too, you know.

Most people gloss over the 20% Aura nerf too. It’s pretty significant.

Ele just needs a different role. For the last year, it was basically a brain dead class where you could just sit on point and self sustain for a really long time. Personally, I will be happy to see it go away. I’d much rather see ele as a range dps class that can provide team support.

@ Astralporing. While I appreciate the Guy kittenes reference in your signature.. it’s the 5th of November.

Shadowflare.2759:

Serdoc.7261:

Good, I hope Ele has no place in the next meta. How long has Ele dominated PvP in this game?

Every time I tune in to Phanta’s stream, he is complaining about ele, he is incredibly biased. Well tough kitten, Ele is on the way out after 2 years of being on the top. Deal with it.

Give or take half of the time since release of GW2. Is that a lot? I don’t think so. Thief stuck around in the spotlight for far longer than that.

As did Guardian, which was meta basically 100% of the time. Unlike ele, which was a FULL year of garbage. Thieves too were meta ALL the time.

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Astralporing. While I appreciate the Guy kittenes reference in your signature.. it’s the 5th of November.

My sig is about the Ascended gear introduction patch, obviously.

TheFamster.7806:

The problem is that amulet will turn us back to sustain/bunker meta, and with combination of runes and sigils it will make eles master of all trade

It lacks precision and condi damage so I thought it might be a bit more balanced.

I feel the same way as Phantaram about the class no longer going to be playable as “I liked to do”, but actually Anet destroyed the unique build I liked to play with the new trait system a while ago, and since then the game has been less enjoyable.

Personally I’m not going to stay and watch the class/game fall apart. I wished players of his skill level would just do the same so perhaps Anet would wake the kitten up. Since they don’t care about a player like me leaving maybe they would about someone like Phantaram.

Some say a profession is dead. Others say another profession is dead.

Let’s be clear: nothing is dead. The game is very much alive. If you like a profession, play it, enjoy it, have fun with it. Everything else is speculation.

If you want to throw the meta argument in response, please make sure you are the winner of at least 10.000$ 1st prize tournament. That is where meta counts, that is where all small adjustments and teamwork counts. If you are just another casual player, or best player wannabe, then simply enjoy the game first, before acting desperately on forums that some profession is dead.

Remember this: Pacman is not dead, it’s still played, after so many years. I think elementalist or any other profession will not die in 3 weeks. This is a game, we should enjoy it now, because it’s future success lies in your present fun.

Pacman isn’t dead because pacman actually makes sense. Avoid ghosts. Use the lanes at the sides to avoid getting cornered by ghosts. Plan your route and eat one of those ghost killing fruits if you get cornered. If you get cornered again and don’t have a fruit, RIP you.

If pacman was made by ANet:

Passively gain more move speed the more bits you eat. Passively regenerate ghost killing fruits. Passively have the ability to walk through walls if two ghosts corner you off with a 1s ICD. Passively vacuum dots every few seconds to make the game end sooner.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Pacman isn’t dead because pacman actually makes sense. Avoid ghosts. Use the lanes at the sides to avoid getting cornered by ghosts. Plan your route and eat one of those ghost killing fruits if you get cornered. If you get cornered again and don’t have a fruit, RIP you.

If pacman was made by ANet:

Passively gain more move speed the more bits you eat. Passively regenerate ghost killing fruits. Passively have the ability to walk through walls if two ghosts corner you off with a 1s ICD. Passively vacuum dots every few seconds to make the game end sooner.

*and buy stuff from the Gemstore as if you ‘passively make money IRL’….I had to

Lordrosicky.5813:

He cant know that at all. Pure speculation and very narrow minded imo. Anet have tested and have metrics. I trust them

Anet’s testing has a long history of not working in practice like they wanted it to on paper Honestly, I think the top tier PvPers should be invited to test out new stuff every once in a while, since those are usually the ones that make the innovative stuff the devs would never forsee.

Cecilia.5179:

Anet’s testing has a long history of not working in practice like they wanted it to on paper Honestly, I think the top tier PvPers should be invited to test out new stuff every once in a while, since those are usually the ones that make the innovative stuff the devs would never forsee.

A.net has invited the top players to test things out — that’s what proleagues is all about. What’s missing from the equation is A.net actually using the information from proleagues to make changes on a semi-frequent basis.

Elementalist is not going to die. But it is going to have to be very careful about scepter reapers and thieves.

I, for one, will remove my scholar runes and get back scrapper runes. Tempest defense will serve against thief openings.

Alin.2468:

Some say a profession is dead. Others say another profession is dead.

Let’s be clear: nothing is dead. The game is very much alive. If you like a profession, play it, enjoy it, have fun with it. Everything else is speculation.

This point would be a lot more convincing if you didn’t have that video in your signature.

Sunshine.5014:

Most people gloss over the 20% Aura nerf too. It’s pretty significant.

It’s honestly just a drop in the ocean compared to celestial removal and Diamond Skin nuking.

Cecilia.5179:

Lordrosicky.5813:

He cant know that at all. Pure speculation and very narrow minded imo. Anet have tested and have metrics. I trust them

Anet’s testing has a long history of not working in practice like they wanted it to on paper Honestly, I think the top tier PvPers should be invited to test out new stuff every once in a while, since those are usually the ones that make the innovative stuff the devs would never forsee.

With a lot of changes I even doubt if anyone tested them at all, otherwise I can’t really imagine how some stuff ever made it to the live servers.