Guild Wars 2

Win streak = double pips.
Winning after lose stream = 2 pips.
No way to lose more than 1 pip.

This means that you can win 45% of games and still hit legendary before others if you play pvp 8 hours every day because you will on average go up in pips – there’s always going to be win streaks and lose streaks just because of rng.

after ruby losing tiers? with 15 losing streaks?

RSLongK.8961:

after ruby losing tiers? with 15 losing streaks?

If you have 45% win ratio and have 15 lose streak followed by even just 9 win streak, you will have 2 more pips than you started with…

finally someone have seen this….
yes a lot of ppl will be diamond even don’t playing any matches.
as I say S1 matchmaking was far far better.

vulneraria.4865:

yes a lot of ppl will be diamond even don’t playing any matches.

That doesn’t even make any sense. Please show me how I can get to diamond without playing any matches.

vulneraria.4865:

as I say S1 matchmaking was far far better.

No it wasn’t. I’m not saying that season 2 is perfect by any means, but literally anyone could get to diamond in season 1 since you were always matched against same MMR opponents regardless of division.

Been saying this here and there, but I think they should make it so that you can lose pips, tiers and divisions straight after amber.

Belial.9350:

This means that you can win 45% of games and still hit legendary before others if you play pvp 8 hours every day because you will on average go up in pips – there’s always going to be win streaks and lose streaks just because of rng.

The thing is, if you’re not good enough, you won’t be able to get even 45% wins eventually. I’ll readily agree the system can be improved though, but not for the reasons you’re outlining.

pakkazull
s1 system all the match are 50/50…you play well you can win.
s1 rewards unbalanced, you gain pips more you play.

s2 system all the match are unbalanced, on slot machines you can roll win/lose (when the system is settled is suppose to be 50/50 you will have 7 pips over you or 7 pips under)
s2 rewards unbalanced, you gain more pips more you play.

difference? at least you need to play your matches in s1.

in season 1 with balanced reward you know how many games avarage bob needs to go diamond from ruby?
2^30 so basically never.

vulneraria.4865:

pakkazull
s1 system all the match are 50/50…you play well you can win.
s1 rewards unbalanced, you gain pips more you play.

s2 system all the match are unbalanced, on slot machines you can roll win/lose (when the system is settled is suppose to be 50/50 you will have 7 pips over you or 7 pips under)
s2 rewards unbalanced, you gain more pips more you play.

difference? at least you need to play your matches in s1.

in season 1 with balanced reward you know how many games avarage bob needs to go diamond from ruby?
2^30 so basically never.

The difference is season 1 didn’t reflect player skill in any way. The best player in the world and the worst player in the world could be in the exact same spot of the league, and they’d never have to face each other. How is this competitive? Season 1 wasn’t even about beating other players, it was about beating your own average, which is why kitten like MMR tanking happened.

Like I said, use a booster system in season 3 to get people closer to where they’re supposed to be right from the start and enable loss of pips, tiers and divisions all the time and it’ll be a lot more competitive.

so you don’t read…
and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read…

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just didn’t agree with your conclusion on the difference between season 1 and season 2, so I put forth my own opinion. But I guess you “don’t read…”

vulneraria.4865:

and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

I see your English skills are lacking. It was a hypothetical scenario used to illustrate a point. In this scenario, if the worst player and the best player in the world both made it to the exact same pip, they’d still never face each other due to differences in their matchmaking rating. This is fact, so I don’t really know what you’re babbling about.

Belial.9350:

RSLongK.8961:

after ruby losing tiers? with 15 losing streaks?

If you have 45% win ratio and have 15 lose streak followed by even just 9 win streak, you will have 2 more pips than you started with…

good luck getting 9 win streaks in ruby+, impossible without a good premade or very high MMR

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read…

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just didn’t agree with your conclusion on the difference between season 1 and season 2, so I put forth my own opinion. But I guess you “don’t read…”

vulneraria.4865:

and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

I see your English skills are lacking. It was a hypothetical scenario used to illustrate a point. In this scenario, if the worst player and the best player in the world both made it to the exact same pip, they’d still never face each other due to differences in their matchmaking rating. This is fact, so I don’t really know what you’re babbling about.

They would, actually. At amber 1 they both have the same MMR due to season just beginning. While in the S1 system everyone could advance if they just grind, there’s the matter of season being of a finite duration, therefore those who advance faster would end up in higher placement.
In S2 you have the dysfunction snowball hell serving no purpose beside feeding lucky scrubs win streaks and kitten off everyone else.

Torafugu.1087:

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read…

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just didn’t agree with your conclusion on the difference between season 1 and season 2, so I put forth my own opinion. But I guess you “don’t read…”

vulneraria.4865:

and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

I see your English skills are lacking. It was a hypothetical scenario used to illustrate a point. In this scenario, if the worst player and the best player in the world both made it to the exact same pip, they’d still never face each other due to differences in their matchmaking rating. This is fact, so I don’t really know what you’re babbling about.

They would, actually. At amber 1 they both have the same MMR due to season just beginning. While in the S1 system everyone could advance if they just grind, there’s the matter of season being of a finite duration, therefore those who advance faster would end up in higher placement.
In S2 you have the dysfunction snowball hell serving no purpose beside feeding lucky scrubs win streaks and kitten off everyone else.

Here we go again. You still haven’t posted any proof in the other thread that MMR resets or decays quickly enough. Besides, the scenario doesn’t necessarily require them to be in Amber.

MMR decay rate is hidden. We can extrapolate the decay rate from the number of people who have multiple account on different streaks. The snowball is real, there is nothing to discuss here.

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read…

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just didn’t agree with your conclusion on the difference between season 1 and season 2, so I put forth my own opinion. But I guess you “don’t read…”

vulneraria.4865:

and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

I see your English skills are lacking. It was a hypothetical scenario used to illustrate a point. In this scenario, if the worst player and the best player in the world both made it to the exact same pip, they’d still never face each other due to differences in their matchmaking rating. This is fact, so I don’t really know what you’re babbling about.

sorry for my english.
yes they could face, because the rule say that the average mmr of teams must be the same, not that all the mmr of the players of the team must be the same.

and yes, if the worst player play his best match, and the best no, the best could lose.
so you have to play well for going up.

and next, the worst play a nice match, his mmr go up the system suppose he is going better, so he get a little worst team, if he win again his mmr go up.
this is how a good system work, the match played change the mmr, in this scenario mmr is accurate. skill change the mmr.
in s2 scenario the mmr change the match played! in this scenario your own mmr change your mmr.

vulneraria.4865:

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read…

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just didn’t agree with your conclusion on the difference between season 1 and season 2, so I put forth my own opinion. But I guess you “don’t read…”

vulneraria.4865:

and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

I see your English skills are lacking. It was a hypothetical scenario used to illustrate a point. In this scenario, if the worst player and the best player in the world both made it to the exact same pip, they’d still never face each other due to differences in their matchmaking rating. This is fact, so I don’t really know what you’re babbling about.

sorry for my english.
yes they could face, because the rule say that the average mmr of teams must be the same, not that all the mmr of the players of the team must be the same.

Good point, I suppose it could happen if the population was low enough. But I can’t see it happening often.

All system that RANK you because you GRIND games are bad.

All system that RANK you because you WINS versus better players are good.

The perfect solution would be:

Remove PIPS from the LEAGUE.

Put back the OLd MMR 2014 system.

Give Legendary to the top 1 to 200, Diamond to 201 to 400, Ruby to 401 to 600, Sapphire from 601 to 800, Emerald from 801 to 1000 and Amber are unranked.

So, you will get your BADGE and Legendary stuff REALLY for your SKILLS and not because you GRIND the SLOT MACHINE.

Anet will need to change some of the achievement because obviously people will go DOWN from one Division to the others and goes UP way more. But it was really feeling good to get WINS versus Rank 200 or less players.

Torafugu.1087:

MMR decay rate is hidden. We can extrapolate the decay rate from the number of people who have multiple account on different streaks.

So you basically admit you can’t prove it. In fact, if the MMR had been reset/decayed completely at the start of season 1… we’d have had the exact same manure storm that we’re having now. Heck, it’d be even more random than day 1 of season 2. Which it obviously wasn’t.

Torafugu.1087:

The snowball is real, there is nothing to discuss here.

Good thing we aren’t discussing the “snowball” in this thread then.

Pakkazull.6894:

Torafugu.1087:

MMR decay rate is hidden. We can extrapolate the decay rate from the number of people who have multiple account on different streaks.

So you basically admit you can’t prove it. In fact, if the MMR had been reset/decayed completely at the start of season 1… we’d have had the exact same manure storm that we’re having now. Heck, it’d be even more random than day 1 of season 2. Which it obviously wasn’t.

Torafugu.1087:

The snowball is real, there is nothing to discuss here.

Good thing we aren’t discussing the “snowball” in this thread then.

So everything I can’t prove is false, in fact I can’t prove you exist.
The theory of MMR snowball explains what we observe better than any alternative explanation. It consistent with everything, the long win/loss streaks, players constantly being matched against the same people, two accounts of the same player with drastically different streaks, masses of solo players leaving the season.

Therefore your sophistry on I can’t prove the MMR decay is pointless.
you know what, keep telling yourself you earned that win streak, and everyone’s stuck because that’s where they belong. What you think is your problem, not mine, or a problem for the countless people stuck in the snowball hell.

Torafugu.1087:

Pakkazull.6894:

Torafugu.1087:

MMR decay rate is hidden. We can extrapolate the decay rate from the number of people who have multiple account on different streaks.

So you basically admit you can’t prove it. In fact, if the MMR had been reset/decayed completely at the start of season 1… we’d have had the exact same manure storm that we’re having now. Heck, it’d be even more random than day 1 of season 2. Which it obviously wasn’t.

Torafugu.1087:

The snowball is real, there is nothing to discuss here.

Good thing we aren’t discussing the “snowball” in this thread then.

So everything I can’t prove is false, in fact I can’t prove you exist.
The theory of MMR snowball explains what we observe better than any alternative explanation. It consistent with everything, the long win/loss streaks, players constantly being matched against the same people, two accounts of the same player with drastically different streaks, masses of solo players leaving the season.

Therefore your sophistry on I can’t prove the MMR decay is pointless.
you know what, keep telling yourself you earned that win streak, and everyone’s stuck because that’s where they belong. What you think is your problem, not mine, or a problem for the countless people stuck in the snowball hell.

This was thr last nail in the coffin. Maybe he was a bot after all, since we can’t prove he exist. Please bots!!! Stay away from the forums!!!!

Thanks

Fivedawgs.4267:

Torafugu.1087:

Pakkazull.6894:

Torafugu.1087:

MMR decay rate is hidden. We can extrapolate the decay rate from the number of people who have multiple account on different streaks.

So you basically admit you can’t prove it. In fact, if the MMR had been reset/decayed completely at the start of season 1… we’d have had the exact same manure storm that we’re having now. Heck, it’d be even more random than day 1 of season 2. Which it obviously wasn’t.

Torafugu.1087:

The snowball is real, there is nothing to discuss here.

Good thing we aren’t discussing the “snowball” in this thread then.

So everything I can’t prove is false, in fact I can’t prove you exist.
The theory of MMR snowball explains what we observe better than any alternative explanation. It consistent with everything, the long win/loss streaks, players constantly being matched against the same people, two accounts of the same player with drastically different streaks, masses of solo players leaving the season.

Therefore your sophistry on I can’t prove the MMR decay is pointless.
you know what, keep telling yourself you earned that win streak, and everyone’s stuck because that’s where they belong. What you think is your problem, not mine, or a problem for the countless people stuck in the snowball hell.

This was thr last nail in the coffin. Maybe he was a bot after all, since we can’t prove he exist. Please bots!!! Stay away from the forums!!!!

Thanks

Neil in the coffin solo mode version (now upgraded with different classes too)

Torafugu.1087:

So everything I can’t prove is false, in fact I can’t prove you exist.

There has never been any indication, in-game or by the devs, that MMR was reset or decayed completely prior to season 1. Also you cleverly side-stepped what I wrote in the previous post so you didn’t have to address it. Good on you.

Torafugu.1087:

The theory of MMR snowball explains what we observe better than any alternative explanation. It consistent with everything, the long win/loss streaks, players constantly being matched against the same people, two accounts of the same player with drastically different streaks, masses of solo players leaving the season.

Therefore your sophistry on I can’t prove the MMR decay is pointless.

Thing is, no one has ever said in this thread that MMR snowballing doesn’t happen. In fact, no one had even mentioned it when you barged in and started talking about it. I don’t even know what you’re on about, you’re literally arguing with no one.

Fivedawgs.4267:

This was thr last nail in the coffin. Maybe he was a bot after all, since we can’t prove he exist. Please bots!!! Stay away from the forums!!!!

Thanks

Attacking the person instead of the argument, classic.

I think he went after the argument, so did I. You said he couldn’t prove anything ( which was a very stromg argument, indeed) but his reply was a classic. I , in no way shape or form, was being disdainful; I apologize if I came across as rude.

Fivedawgs.4267:

I think he went after the argument, so did I. You said he couldn’t prove anything ( which was a very stromg argument, indeed) but his reply was a classic. I , in no way shape or form, was being disdainful; I apologize if I came across as rude.

This is what I wrote. “In fact, if the MMR had been reset/decayed completely at the start of season 1… we’d have had the exact same manure storm that we’re having now. Heck, it’d be even more random than day 1 of season 2. Which it obviously wasn’t.”

He did in no way attempt to address this, instead spouting some bullkitten about me not existing. Sooooo yeah, I’d say he didn’t address the argument.

apologies are thrown….
so back to topic?

vulneraria.4865:

snip

Stop posting any time, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Last season was terrible, because the system was prioritizing MMR and not divisions/tiers which led to people being all over the place. Legendary div players facing ambers, decent players having a way harder time to climb, while bad players abused their way to the top. The current system needs a bit of time, but in a couple of weeks every division and tier should have it’s own “playerbase” so to speak. You’re not entitled to climb/get carried to division 6, you play on the level where you belong. Literally every MMR argument I’ve read so far is beyond flawed. A really obvious example I can give you is Leeto, he’s Diamond on a free to play account which by theory shouldn’t have over the top MMR. You increase your MMR by beating worse opponents, if you can’t beat bad players then don’t expect to get matched with good ones to carry you.

So you have people that are quitting because they can’t rise up and rank, then you have people with 30 minute queue times in Ruby and up. So we’re saying that this season is better…in what way? Because if the argument is that people aren’t carried, I no longer see that as a valid complaint.

You know that if we all wait, and let things settle, everyone will be waiting and not playing which will further hurt things?

Burn.5401:

vulneraria.4865:

snip

Stop posting any time, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Last season was terrible, because the system was prioritizing MMR and not divisions/tiers which led to people being all over the place. Legendary div players facing ambers, decent players having a way harder time to climb, while bad players abused their way to the top. The current system needs a bit of time, but in a couple of weeks every division and tier should have it’s own “playerbase” so to speak. You’re not entitled to climb/get carried to division 6, you play on the level where you belong. Literally every MMR argument I’ve read so far is beyond flawed. A really obvious example I can give you is Leeto, he’s Diamond on a free to play account which by theory shouldn’t have over the top MMR. You increase your MMR by beating worse opponents, if you can’t beat bad players then don’t expect to get matched with good ones to carry you.

Just to clarify one thing, new player start with average MMR. A diamond struggling/ trying to get to legebdary last season, might as well have a lower MMR than an average player. Few are those with 60~70% MMR in rank; hence, it looks as if people who try to get to another division Legendary/ diamond/ ruby/ saphire, etc. . Are being punished for their losses.

Hope, it make sense.

Even being a player hit by some nasty losing streaks, concur. Honestly think that you should be able to lose divisions starting at Sapphire. Emerald should be the last division that you can just power play your way thru. This shouldn’t be about who can grind out the matches the best, that’s what PvP Rank already gave people. And yes this will cause me some raging too but it makes more sense versus just being able to grind your way up. 2 cents.

Thiefz.3695:

So you have people that are quitting because they can’t rise up and rank

And that is the system’s fault.. how?

Thiefz.3695:

then you have people with 30 minute queue times in Ruby and up

I’m having 5 minute queues in Diamond so I don’t know where you’re getting this false info.

The only solution about the “waiting” part I can come up with is placing legendary players from the previous season in Sapphire instead of Amber at the start of the next one. That will speed up the players distribution across the ladder.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Hour-long-queues

I’m not the one spreading the false information bud. It’s happening to other players. You might have fine ones but you have someone admitting to grouping with lower tier people to get better q times.

It’s the system’s fault because average MMR players were being mixed with new players who didn’t know how to play forcing people to have to carry them, just like last season. However it’s not working well and dropping player’s mmr.

IMO, the current pip system is actually quite fair, its designed in the manner if you are a good player then you will get to legendary faster than others.

If you are a bad player you can still reach legendary but will simply take a LOT more time.

The example you mentioned that losing 15 in a row and then winning 9 in a row makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…
If a player lost 15 in a row chances are they are not going to win 9 in a row, very unrealistic…
Now lets say for the sake of argument by some magic they do win 9 in a row, they end up with 2 pips more, how much time did this player had to spend?

24 games – 3 min avg queue time + 10 min avg game = 5.2 hours….
Whereas a skilled player can play 26 mins and achieve the same result, to me that is a system working just fine.
If I was a bad player and I spent 5-6 hours in a game I would hope for some progress even if it meant just 2 pips, not have negative pips because that would drive me to simply quit…

What is however flawed is the matchmaking system which still pairs you up against full premade teams when you are solo-queing…

Burn.5401:

vulneraria.4865:

snip

Stop posting any time, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Last season was terrible, because the system was prioritizing MMR and not divisions/tiers which led to people being all over the place. Legendary div players facing ambers, decent players having a way harder time to climb, while bad players abused their way to the top. The current system needs a bit of time, but in a couple of weeks every division and tier should have it’s own “playerbase” so to speak. You’re not entitled to climb/get carried to division 6, you play on the level where you belong. Literally every MMR argument I’ve read so far is beyond flawed. A really obvious example I can give you is Leeto, he’s Diamond on a free to play account which by theory shouldn’t have over the top MMR. You increase your MMR by beating worse opponents, if you can’t beat bad players then don’t expect to get matched with good ones to carry you.

so you are ok that on 10 player 5 best (teorically by mmr) are in one team and the other in team b, and face 100 times in a 100-0 result?
that is the way to say all 5 in team a are better then the player in team b?

is like having 10 bags put the 5 that I think that weight more on one side and the other on the other side of two pan balance.
than you see that is true, they weight more, and you go on with the same 100 times.(more or less like mm actually works)
and finally you say every single bag in top five weight more that every one in second side. and… you are right is exactly what you have stated starting this experiment!

ZilentNight.5089:

IMO, the current pip system is actually quite fair, its designed in the manner if you are a good player then you will get to legendary faster than others.

If you are a bad player you can still reach legendary but will simply take a LOT more time.

The example you mentioned that losing 15 in a row and then winning 9 in a row makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…
If a player lost 15 in a row chances are they are not going to win 9 in a row, very unrealistic…
Now lets say for the sake of argument by some magic they do win 9 in a row, they end up with 2 pips more, how much time did this player had to spend?

24 games – 3 min avg queue time + 10 min avg game = 5.2 hours….
Whereas a skilled player can play 26 mins and achieve the same result, to me that is a system working just fine.
If I was a bad player and I spent 5-6 hours in a game I would hope for some progress even if it meant just 2 pips, not have negative pips because that would drive me to simply quit…

What is however flawed is the matchmaking system which still pairs you up against full premade teams when you are solo-queing…

in season 1 you end up with -6 pips (if matches are 50/50).
and in this season you don’t have really to play, you can go afk for a shower, a beer with friends, and so on… and you have 2 pips.
you need to press some key for not been disconnected by the game and start new matches…

Thiefz.3695:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Hour-long-queues

I’m not the one spreading the false information bud. It’s happening to other players. You might have fine ones but you have someone admitting to grouping with lower tier people to get better q times.

It’s the system’s fault because average MMR players were being mixed with new players who didn’t know how to play forcing people to have to carry them, just like last season. However it’s not working well and dropping player’s mmr.

First of all grouping with lower ranked players doesn’t lower your overall team rating anymore. Second, the person complaining about high queue times hasn’t even stated at what hour he’s trying to get games. You’re obviously going to get more games during prime time then during, let’s say 3 in the morning. The second part of your post is just your personal opinion really, BAD players have to lose, GOOD players have to win. It’s the core of every competition. As I explained the occuring “slaughtering” in the early days of the season could’ve been solved by placing legendary players in sapphire at the start of the next season to avoid this.

vulneraria.4865:

so you are ok that on 10 player 5 best (teorically by mmr) are in one team and the other in team b, and face 100 times in a 100-0 result?
that is the way to say all 5 in team a are better then the player in team b?

is like having 10 bags put the 5 that I think that weight more on one side and the other on the other side of two pan balance.
than you see that is true, they weight more, and you go on with the same 100 times.(more or less like mm actually works)
and finally you say every single bag in top five weight more that every one in second side. and… you are right is exactly what you have stated starting this experiment!

Please try to read my posts at least. Literally the same thing as above, if all players start on equal grounds it’s inevitable that the better ones with beat the worse ones. What we had last season was a parody – players with high mmr had to face pro league players in AMBER to advance while players with low mmr had a way easier time since the beginning.

Burn, please read this post from Evan:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Simple-question-HOW/first

The issue is about how MMR, which is still used to put a group together, was inflated for new players to average MMR levels. The amount of new players being matched with the average players was causing frustration because they weren’t able to play and average players couldn’t carry. While the volatility of a new player’s MMR is high, thus pushing them down, enough new players matching with average players will drag an average players MMR down with enough losses. This is causing MMR loss for average players and forcing average players to be better at carrying.

Literally, average MMR players are forced to carry new and inexperienced players. We have to do this more than higher MMR players because they get placed with higher MMR groups. So the issue is that Matchmaking for a party, that uses MMR to make that party, is not fairly representing new players MMR.

EDIT: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/
“pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own” this is inferred to mean that MMR is used to make parties.

vulneraria.4865:

ZilentNight.5089:

IMO, the current pip system is actually quite fair, its designed in the manner if you are a good player then you will get to legendary faster than others.

If you are a bad player you can still reach legendary but will simply take a LOT more time.

The example you mentioned that losing 15 in a row and then winning 9 in a row makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…
If a player lost 15 in a row chances are they are not going to win 9 in a row, very unrealistic…
Now lets say for the sake of argument by some magic they do win 9 in a row, they end up with 2 pips more, how much time did this player had to spend?

24 games – 3 min avg queue time + 10 min avg game = 5.2 hours….
Whereas a skilled player can play 26 mins and achieve the same result, to me that is a system working just fine.
If I was a bad player and I spent 5-6 hours in a game I would hope for some progress even if it meant just 2 pips, not have negative pips because that would drive me to simply quit…

What is however flawed is the matchmaking system which still pairs you up against full premade teams when you are solo-queing…

in season 1 you end up with -6 pips (if matches are 50/50).
and in this season you don’t have really to play, you can go afk for a shower, a beer with friends, and so on… and you have 2 pips.
you need to press some key for not been disconnected by the game and start new matches…

I really want you to record 9 consecutive games that you win while you’re afk doing what you described, until you can do that your argument is moot.
So with your next post please provide a you tube video of the 9 games.

i just want to not loose win streak or pips after fighting 4 vs 5 :/ gg

thought edit second loss second 4 vs 5 good times bye bye points