Guild Wars 2

So I’ve been wondering how would that turn out. Just now I’ve had a few conversations with PvE players who came for farming legendary armour like bees to honey. The thing is, one or two players get to win while the rest is just playing for giggles, knowing that they will get pips anyway.
Because of that, unranked and ranked look almost the same with just the fact that ranked gives better rewards. The word “ranked” says that this is where some of us get some fun, but not fun like unranked or pve content kind of fun. This is that fun that we get from losing or winning against an opponent that knows how to bite, to fight back.
Unranked and hotjoin is for giggles, but if we have ranked play, let it be serious. Serious rewards, serious dedication. Because of that it seems that it is easier to get pvp legendary armour just by not caring and farming them pips one way or another, while in other modes you need to try. Raiding? You can’t be lazy, you need to know the strats. So if you have to learn the strats to get into raiding and get that sweet legendary armour, so should players know the value and cost of getting such armour in ranked PvP.

TL:DR
Players get pips for win as it is now. But! There is no pips for loss, or just one pip to tease the losing team to improve. I don’t think that would discourage the playerbase, but improve the quality of every fight.

+1 Nothing else to add

Lowering loss rewards wouldn’t change this behavior.

Realize that these people playing for rewards and “not trying” won’t change their behavior due to rewards changes; they’ll continue doing it because they’re already at the appropriate skill rating and already winning about half their games by “not trying”.

Meanwhile, you’ve slowed down the reward pace for everyone.

the closer you come to 500 the lower the MMR loss. Maybe if you go over 400 than loose only half MMR and gain those three pips for a close loss …
there should be a reward for fighting hard and close but never for blowouts ..

All having no pips for losing does is make people give up and afk at base more frequently when there’s even a slight score difference. Punishment breeds toxicity, and toxicity lowers quality of gameplay.

I would much rather see pips be based on percentage of winning score(rounded up). If you lose 450-500, you get 9 pips. Above that you get 10 pips, and obviously brutal blowouts of 10-500 mean one pip.

And if this creates a situation where people start collaborating on points and artificially evening scores out? Then the problem is with PvE’s legendary armor acquisition being unreasonable. Classically – that is, back at release and thereabouts – the endgame grind was always about looks and not stats. So if the problem is that legendary armor is, stat-wise, too desirable, and people are no longer chasing after the coolest skins, then PvE needs a comparable route to the skinless legendaries.

Right now there’s a huge disparity. Raids require a massive time and social investment to even complete a single one, to a point where people are selling raid clears because of their exclusiveness. As a part of this, there’s even more grind involved with getting gear you can ping so you don’t get kicked from the non-selling groups. PvP doesn’t require either of these forms of investment, making them appeal so much more than PvE.

Personally, I showed up in PvP because even though Ad Infinitum was a perfectly obtainable legendary for my fractal group, I desired the skin of The Ascension so much more. The bonus of Legendary’s stat selection and being best in slot was second to that; desirable all the same for my stat-experimenting ways, but I already had all the back items I needed.

But this time around, I’m going to pvp not for a skin, but because I can’t make the time/social/financial investment that a raid demands. It’s a very different problem.

I disagree fully with making losing reward no pips, doing so would only make losing that much more bitter and toxic. You already get games of people not playing and yelling at everyone because you lost mid in the first team fight, and that suddenly means you can’t come back ever.

If you removed rewards from losing you’re effectively making it so every loss was a waste of time to people and very quickly it’ll devolve into the toxicity of other games that do this like LoL.

Now making it so the pips scale based on how close the game is? That’d be fantastic, if they made it where it was a complete blow out 50 to 500 only got you like 2 pips, but a super close game of 450+ to 500 resulted in the same pips (maybe like 1 or 2 less) as a win? I guarantee that’d get people to at least try the WHOLE game because it means their reward is tied to them not giving up.

It should be rewarded to fight. A blowout when people give up should not be rewarded. Going into a match and low to no contribution or even being a bot should not give rewards. Let people fight. The +2 for close loss is already good.
Give the three pips when you go over 300 and half MMR loss on over 400.

Okay, now I start to understand the pvp devs point of view on that whole matter.
Pips for loss? People don’t have to try. No pips for loss? People won’t even try to fight if they see the loss coming. But on the other hand if they give up, don’t man up, they don’t deserve winning ranked and they do not deserve to get the armour then. Go back to unranked/hotjoin and practice if you want rewards from a more demanding mode.
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Okay, that’s just my personal point of view. Crude and stupid at the first glance, we are talking about casual friendly guild wars, yeah...
PvE has its elitist content which is raiding, PvP could also have the ranked play. But welp... this is universal truth, someone always will be toxic and unhappy about stuff.

But then how to improve it? As some of you said already, pips based on team points (NOT on personal points). It might lead to teams evening the score so that everyone is happy, but let’s be really honest in here. Would people really waste their time and even out the overall score just to let the one team win in the end... like giving up the fight? I already feel such a deep disdain to those who would agree to that. To just spit on the meaning of competitive ranked play just for the rewards instead of fighting for it.
If that’s how it could end up, give us raid on dungeon difficulty level but with raid rewards so I can go and farm out everything on my own, the same as dedicated raiders do. How about that? Muh casul raidung experienc.

Rodzynald.5897:

It might lead to teams evening the score so that everyone is happy, but let’s be really honest in here. Would people really waste their time and even out the overall score just to let the one team win in the end… like giving up the fight?

I actually thought about it a bit since my previous post and when I think about it, I don’t know if point sharing would even be that popular. It would be a minor timesave in the end only for those who don’t even want to try, and directly harm the efficiency of it all for the ones that do.

It would take a massive coordinated guild’s efforts to really pull it off, and compared to pve that’s probably not the most efficient way to farm money once everyone’s reached byzantine and hit their limit on the season’s armor as a result. Since you can’t get ascended armor without touching the economy(crafter marks), that means at the end of it all the only real negative to the game is the gold reward at the end(trivially fixable).

Which is to say that coordinated guild would probably be done after a few days, the economy will be almost entirely unchanged, and pvpers eventually settle back into a routine of competitive fights where everyone’s putting in 100% to make their time as efficient as possible.

Kadj.6725:

Rodzynald.5897:

It might lead to teams evening the score so that everyone is happy, but let’s be really honest in here. Would people really waste their time and even out the overall score just to let the one team win in the end… like giving up the fight?

I actually thought about it a bit since my previous post and when I think about it, I don’t know if point sharing would even be that popular. It would be a minor timesave in the end only for those who don’t even want to try, and directly harm the efficiency of it all for the ones that do.

It would take a massive coordinated guild’s efforts to really pull it off, and compared to pve that’s probably not the most efficient way to farm money once everyone’s reached byzantine and hit their limit on the season’s armor as a result. Since you can’t get ascended armor without touching the economy(crafter marks), that means at the end of it all the only real negative to the game is the gold reward at the end(trivially fixable).

Which is to say that coordinated guild would probably be done after a few days, the economy will be almost entirely unchanged, and pvpers eventually settle back into a routine of competitive fights where everyone’s putting in 100% to make their time as efficient as possible.

Not to mention, a lot of people who are playing PvP to play wouldn’t put up with that kitten and would keep capping regardless and probably ruin the efforts of the people there trying to get the points evened out.

Additionally, people who are on the winning end are going to be way less likely to sit around and wait for the losing team to catch up on points before winning because it would literally be a waste of their time and they could just go ahead and win and move onto their next game.

I really can’t see the whole people waiting for the scores to get even and then letting one team win be a thing, sure a handful of people will try and a guild may show up to try it but at the end of the day I don’t see it happening. Especially since the people who would be on board for it likely aren’t very good players and would just get stomped out by the people against it.

This and removing the class stacking is the way to go, something has to be done, can’t be worse than what already is in ranked. Make better rewards to unranked, don’t know, something, the lack of action by the dev’s it’s unbeliavable.

Akilles.4320:

This and removing the class stacking is the way to go, something has to be done, can’t be worse than what already is in ranked. Make better rewards to unranked, don’t know, something, the lack of action by the dev’s it’s unbeliavable.

Not sure if it has been mentioned somewhere, but I do have the strong impression that the devs did something to reduce the class stacking in season 7. A vast majority of my ranked matches have been exact mirror match-ups class wise since then. No way this is cooincidence.

The thing is, no one ever really plays to lose either. Players being more “serious” in a match won’t spontaneously win games or have improved playstyle. In the end all this does is limit GW2 as a casual game and turn away a lot of the player base. Even the better Plat players who at least wants pips for their efforts.

Rodzynald.5897:

So I’ve been wondering how would that turn out. Just now I’ve had a few conversations with PvE players who came for farming legendary armour like bees to honey. The thing is, one or two players get to win while the rest is just playing for giggles, knowing that they will get pips anyway.
Because of that, unranked and ranked look almost the same with just the fact that ranked gives better rewards. The word “ranked” says that this is where some of us get some fun, but not fun like unranked or pve content kind of fun. This is that fun that we get from losing or winning against an opponent that knows how to bite, to fight back.
Unranked and hotjoin is for giggles, but if we have ranked play, let it be serious. Serious rewards, serious dedication. Because of that it seems that it is easier to get pvp legendary armour just by not caring and farming them pips one way or another, while in other modes you need to try. Raiding? You can’t be lazy, you need to know the strats. So if you have to learn the strats to get into raiding and get that sweet legendary armour, so should players know the value and cost of getting such armour in ranked PvP.

TL:DR
Players get pips for win as it is now. But! There is no pips for loss, or just one pip to tease the losing team to improve. I don’t think that would discourage the playerbase, but improve the quality of every fight.

Have you been through Season 1 ?
That pip drop on losing is cancer.
No pip gain is pretty bad too .

As said. The title is not very good. Because it´s not no pip gain on loss, it should be gradually pip gain. No pips only if your team is like below 200 then it increases and a close loss should even reduce MMR loss.

How are you matched up with people who only play for the giggles if they are so bad. Is my question. :p

Aomine.5012:

Have you been through Season 1 ?
That pip drop on losing is cancer.
No pip gain is pretty bad too .

Pip are now for rewards, not rating.

FrizzFreston.5290:

How are you matched up with people who only play for the giggles if they are so bad. Is my question. :p

It happens on both sides, a bit too frequently. Either I get to fight a player who can be killed by auto attacking or you go crazy trying to fight off enemies on point while about 2 or 3 teammates (if not the whole team) chase a thief or just fight off the point. If some of them at least died on the point that would be greater help

Kir Sakar.3647:

Akilles.4320:

This and removing the class stacking is the way to go, something has to be done, can’t be worse than what already is in ranked. Make better rewards to unranked, don’t know, something, the lack of action by the dev’s it’s unbeliavable.

Not sure if it has been mentioned somewhere, but I do have the strong impression that the devs did something to reduce the class stacking in season 7. A vast majority of my ranked matches have been exact mirror match-ups class wise since then. No way this is cooincidence.

My point is that it’s not enough and they need to do more than that.
There’s alot of complains to the PvP, just look at the forums, it’s not just 1 or 2 rants but many people complaining about the match making, I get better, fun, fair, engaging fights at unranked, than in ranked because I must carry my team hard? Say what?
It’s not working, kitten it look at the numbers, give a word to your PvP player base (season after season smaller) change things, why do we need hot join and unranked? Change one of them, the game mode should atract more people to it, not push people away from the game.
What you did to WvW and the auto tournaments in SPvP it’s a start, but not enough, so don’t stop!

What is really bad about matchmaking? Low risk, high reward builds that carry out to gold/low plat level all the low skilled players that are not capable of rotation, focusing target and all that stuff. They get carried and stacked in your team, and everything is well cause in numbers they are your level. How can this be fixed?

Kir Sakar.3647:

Akilles.4320:

This and removing the class stacking is the way to go, something has to be done, can’t be worse than what already is in ranked. Make better rewards to unranked, don’t know, something, the lack of action by the dev’s it’s unbeliavable.

Not sure if it has been mentioned somewhere, but I do have the strong impression that the devs did something to reduce the class stacking in season 7. A vast majority of my ranked matches have been exact mirror match-ups class wise since then. No way this is cooincidence.

This is true. My team comps almost always mirror each other, maybe with 1 class different to set them apart, but I think this system creates a different problem in the way it combines players in teams in a reasonably short amount of time. It often feels it takes players of a certain class to make the teams more even but ignoring their personal rating, which can put one of the teams at a huge disadvantage with the skill gaps among its players. This is what it looks like when met with the 500-100 or under faceroll matches.

Or just leave it the way it is.