Guild Wars 2

Please Anet don’t focus on the things you are implementing alone ..they are nice but we have so many issues with the current game at the moment concering class balance so please nerf pistol whip in the coming patch on the 15th of april
this build holds back a lot of classes

Awe common it’s not so bad Pistol whip is like shatter Mesmer!

But without the set up. Or risk. Or damage gate based on travel time, resources, and cool downs. With added evade spam, stun spam, and harder to doge burst.

Surely this is a balanced spec. You just need to L2P Sensotix. /sarcasm

Rofl

I’m not going to defend Pistol Whip but I will point out that Pistol Whip has been largely unchanged since release. Only recently, and briefly during the first months, has it been considered overpowered.

Ask yourself why? If the ability hasn’t really changed (they did clean up the aftercast a bit, but also fixed the stun-sigil scaling to 1.0 seconds) then what has?

Maybe the appeal of Pistol Whip roots from elsewhere.

But I’m not going to deny that an ability that combines a stun, evades and nice cleave damage is problematic.

Dj,

It had a damage increase, also the time it takes for the sword damage to start up has been shortened, finally there was the increase in base initiative regen.

It was viable before all of those changes, but no one played it because S/D was more easy to play. Before all these changes, to get the pistolwhip off as smoothly as possible, you needed to land an immob shot from your shortbow. Now all the S/D players shifted to S/P because it’s now easier to play than S/D ever was. S/P never required 30 in acrobatics, so the base initiative change was just a gain to them. Really, they “killed” S/P with these changes because they made it excruciatingly boring and easy to play.

So I don’t think the appeal from S/P stems from elsewhere.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Dj,

It had a damage increase, also the time it takes for the sword damage to start up has been shortened, finally there was the increase in base initiative regen.

I don’t recall any damage increase – can you link the patch notes where PW had it’s damage increased?

So are you going to complain about Necros, Decap Engis, Spirit Rangers, Condi Warriors and PU mesmers? If you are going to complain about Pistol Whip thieves it is only fair you complain about everything else that is unbalanced in this game. xD

Lotus.1682:

So are you going to complain about Necros, Decap Engis, Spirit Rangers, Condi Warriors and PU mesmers? If you are going to complain about Pistol Whip thieves it is only fair you complain about everything else that is unbalanced in this game. xD

That’s what he and many other players, that understand the game, do atm in the forums.

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m not going to defend Pistol Whip but I will point out that Pistol Whip has been largely unchanged since release. Only recently, and briefly during the first months, has it been considered overpowered.

Ask yourself why? If the ability hasn’t really changed (they did clean up the aftercast a bit, but also fixed the stun-sigil scaling to 1.0 seconds) then what has?

Maybe the appeal of Pistol Whip roots from elsewhere.

But I’m not going to deny that an ability that combines a stun, evades and nice cleave damage is problematic.

The skill has became a problem after ini buff.

The whole combo lasts a good amount of time ( about 2 secs) so the ability costs just 3 ini for the whole duration ( 2 ini if you’re lucky with inf signet ini proc, 1 ini if combined with steal, 0 if both happen togheter).

Animation cleaning also made it better dps wise and overall it became easier to land it even without porting.

Moreover you can easily fake the skill ( by weapon canceling) usually forcing a dodge without spending ini at all ( pro tip).

Sadly PW thief issues are more than simply these ones, but it’s mostly related to the stun, giving thief incredible ress control when combined with bountiful theft and sleight of hand.

You can’t replace the stun with something different otherwise the skill becomes either too clunky or too OP ( for istance with another immo, like lady nag nag already suggested).

They need to change the skill completely, knowing that it is already hard for a PW thief to win 1vs1 against certain professions ( that are, by the way, completely annhilated in team fights by the same thief build) whilst keeping it different from a simple backstab build.

If they’re going to keep the stun, splitting the skill ( like they said in the past) would only make this issue worse ( making the burst with basi venom even harder and almost impossible to see, since at least now you know that if he’s using PW from far with basi venom on, he’s going to port to you, something that will be hard to see if the skill will be split).

Redesign is needed.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Lotus.1682:

So are you going to complain about Necros, Decap Engis, Spirit Rangers, Condi Warriors and PU mesmers? If you are going to complain about Pistol Whip thieves it is only fair you complain about everything else that is unbalanced in this game. xD

That’s what he and many other players, that understand the game, do atm in the forums.

I feel like 99.999% of the complaints are from players that try to defend their poor play by calling certain things op, the stun becoming a daze or immob would probably be the best bet, the evade cant be removed(although every other complaint seems to think it will make it balanced) because then they would just get gibbed. I personally have no problems against pistol whip on my war, necro, thief, engy, guard, or ranger. Obviously some builds hard counter others, pw counters shatter and it is really just a mindgame for s/f ele.

For ele: get a full burst on them while they are in the precast and they get 1 shot, if they land a basi pw on u just press earth 5 it has basically the same cd as basi and it is pretty much the only reason to go into earth so it should always be up.

Use comet when they try to do an los precast on you (has basically the same cd as steal so it’s a great way to counter that, and the only real reason to go into water is for more fresh air procs or to comet anyway but since they are going to try to stay away from u till they burst ur just gonna want to save that anyway)

Finally, it seems counter intuitive to many but the main strength of a sword thief is controlling the engagements so if you camp their return spots and just try to maintain a 300 range gap then you will completely remove their advantage.

tldr; people dont think about matchups and just complain because of it

imo “steal” is the issue

Sensotix.4106:

imo “steal” is the issue

Thieves mechanic of no CD’s on weapon-sets is the problem and generates low risk- high rewards play. The only thing that held Backstab froms being abused, was the requirement of stealth.

Make the initiatives weapon bound so they dont regen when weapon is not on. This will make the thieves actually use their initiatives wisely on each weapon.

Sensotix.4106:

imo “steal” is the issue

The real problem is that thief is horribly broken in almost every way. The game won’t be playable until the class is removed completely.

Sensotix.4106:

Please Anet don’t focus on the things you are implementing alone ..they are nice but we have so many issues with the current game at the moment concering class balance so please nerf pistol whip in the coming patch on the 15th of april
this build holds back a lot of classes

It’s not the build, it’s the profession and its mechanics.

Sensotix.4106:

imo “steal” is the issue

One of many issues.

The issue is ress control PAIRED with trickery steal, and the fact PW lasts so long you almost regenerate all ini ( you can effectively spam PW 5 times before running out of ini).

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

thief is a high dmg, fast dead class, and as soon as you learn to evade his first 2 attacks, he is almost out of initiative. And a thief without initiative does no dmg and if you do it right he is dead.

so it isn’t the class, you are the problem.
I mean seriously, I see complains about almost every available build of every class on this forum. So if all classes are overpowered, aren’t they equal again?

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

what I read yesterday was the wish to split Pistolwhip, i just can say: please do it, it will make us even stronger^^

The point is, you have to time pistolwhip, and as soon as the enemy is running, you must be sure, that you are real close to him, otherwise your shot will take so long, that he is already out of range, when you start hitting.
which leads to my question: are you just standing there and watching the thief hit you? cause then also a D/D thief is overpowered, or maybe even a thief with just one dagger lol

but back to serious: fact is, a thief needs to deal high dmg, because he needs to end a fight pretty fast, otherwise he will take too much dmg.
that is the big difference between a warrior and a thief.

you are qqing about getting downed so fast? well that’s exactly how thief should work.

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

I agree wholeheartedly.

In addition, Heartseeker should see a 20% damage nerf and be cut down to 300 range.
In addition, Consume plasma, Healing seed, Whirling Axe, and Skull fear should all be toned down. PW should lose 20% damage, Inf strike should be increased to 4 init, LS should lose 20% damage, shadow shot should lose blind, and Executioner should be reduced to 10% when the target is below 25% health.

If Anet wont just delete the class, they should at least make it unplayable to accommodate the rest of us who don’t bother to learn the first thing about thief mechanics.

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

What made it obvious? When he spoke about BP as if you couldn’t melee the thief while remaining outside the circle? Or was it all the other ridiculously incorrect assertions he made?

Thief since realese was a problem , backstab burst-heartseeker spam-sword evade-pw spam , and its not the problem about build but mechanic of this class , initiatives inted of cd on wepons make thief spam class , lets add to this high mobility + stealth and high burst.

Cant w8 next patch and see thief runing with intelligience sigils.

evilapprentice.6379:

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

I agree wholeheartedly.

In addition, Heartseeker should see a 20% damage nerf and be cut down to 300 range.
In addition, Consume plasma, Healing seed, Whirling Axe, and Skull fear should all be toned down. PW should lose 20% damage, Inf strike should be increased to 4 init, LS should lose 20% damage, shadow shot should lose blind, and Executioner should be reduced to 10% when the target is below 25% damage.

If Anet wont just delete the class, they should at least make it unplayable to accommodate the rest of us.

Let’s talk about play and counter play berserker vs berserker. When a thief opens on you, you’ve just eaten a large portion of your health…you can: A) heal, oh wait poison cleanse the poison, then heal (oh wait you’re going to die from the next two hits you take) C) cleanse, use an immunity, and then heal (oh wait you just ate a head shot), D) cleanse, use an immunity, use stability, and then heal (that’s right, that clever little thief will just re-open in a few seconds and you won’ t have those abilities any longer.

When a thief gets the opener on you, and they will get the opener on you else they’ll just reset, you have to use upwards of 2-3 abilities/utilities. That’s disproportionate to what others have to use in dealing with an opener of another class.

Now let’s address 900 range on the initial blind on black powder. Why is it there? The thief already is guaranteed a substantial advantage by standing in the blind field, why do they need to guarantee a stealth? There is already so much you have to deal with when fighting a thief, quite frankly it isn’t fair to other berserker builds. If I see a thief using black powder and prepping a hs or steal through it, I should be able to counter it with a ranged knock back. Every situation the thief has a huge advantage in regaining an opener. Take a look at lyssa runes and basi venom. Aegis and stability? Come on man! If I see it coming, I should be able to counter it with options…blind, stun, or a knock back. YET YOU CAN’T!

It’s like people who play thieves are so blinded by the ease at which they drop other berserker builds confuse it for skilled game play.

There really isn’t any point in complaining about or playing this game’s PvP with any serious intention.

Anet didn’t design the game thinking about what it’s like to fight against their classes. They just made what they thought was cool and that approach works for PvE and WvW.

PvP has to be committed to for it to work, and that means every tiny little detail of every skill and build. You can’t do that in this game without breaking everything else or splitting the game’s mechanics.

GW2 PvP just a minigame. Get over it. If you guys want to play real PvP play LoL, Dota, Gunz 2, SC2, etc..

This feature build isn’t going to change the foundation of the classes.

Necros will still flood the screen with puke.
Mesmers will still go invisible and let AIs and Condis do all the work for them.
Thieves will still not have cooldowns.
Warriors will still have way too high a starting value.
Guardians will still be requisite for any legitimate conquest team.
Rangers will still be a brainless class.
Engis will still be the self-proclaimed “leet skillz” class that isn’t anything more than a spammer.
Finally, Ele will still be the only class that challenges players to learn and will never be allowed to be on top again because the legitimately good players will just dominate everyone with it.

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

The only problem is, I actually play this game. Where as you obviously do not. You’re just another one of those delusional players who mistakes your success on thief as skill when in reality it is the broken nature of the thief profession as a whole.

Here’s your chance to prove me wrong. Go play another berserker build non-thief on a team and show me how skilled you were against them. I’ll wait here.

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

The blindness is only for the first hit. As you know, most melee players are smart enough at this point not to just stand in the black powder.

style.6173:

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

The blindness is only for the first hit. As you know, most melee players are smart enough at this point not to just stand in the black powder.

Psssst, He doesn’t know that. His earlier post specifically mentions how most classes can’t “hack through the constant blind reapplications”. He can make all the arguments and propose all the hypotheticals in the world, but not knowing that makes it impossible to take his opinion seriously.

evilapprentice.6379:

style.6173:

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

The blindness is only for the first hit. As you know, most melee players are smart enough at this point not to just stand in the black powder.

Psssst, He doesn’t know that. His earlier post specifically mentions how most classes can’t “hack through the constant blind reapplications”. He can make all the arguments and propose all the hypotheticals in the world, but not knowing that makes it impossible to take his opinion seriously.

Pssst…I actually play this game. Previously to the warrior buffs (cleansing ire and berserker stance) all you had to do was exchange auto attacks and set up stealth in black powder to handle warriors. There is a reason why thieves constantly use it and why you are so against any reasonable changes to it. If it is SO EASY to deal with then you shouldn’t have an issue with adjusting it. I mean you’re saying the ability is all but worthless.

Pyriall.5027:

evilapprentice.6379:

style.6173:

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

The blindness is only for the first hit. As you know, most melee players are smart enough at this point not to just stand in the black powder.

Psssst, He doesn’t know that. His earlier post specifically mentions how most classes can’t “hack through the constant blind reapplications”. He can make all the arguments and propose all the hypotheticals in the world, but not knowing that makes it impossible to take his opinion seriously.

Pssst…I actually play this game.

I dont think this phrase means what you think it means. You keep saying it then directly contradicting it by saying things nobody who’s played this game for more than a week would say. Your opinions betray you – anyone can say “I actually play this game”, but if you weren’t aware that you can melee a thief sitting in a BP without touching the effect itself, it’s abundantly clear that you have a incomplete grasp on very basic game mechanics regardless of the amount of time you’ve “played the game”.

Your assertions are the kind that anyone with a weeks experience know are incorrect, inaccurate, or downright fabrications. You’re mouth is saying “I’m knowledgeable about this game”, but your understanding of basic mechanics is saying “I have no idea what I’m doing”.

Pyriall.5027:

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

The only problem is, I actually play this game. Where as you obviously do not. You’re just another one of those delusional players who mistakes your success on thief as skill when in reality it is the broken nature of the thief profession as a whole.

Here’s your chance to prove me wrong. Go play another berserker build non-thief on a team and show me how skilled you were against them. I’ll wait here.

I play power necro in top 100 solo q.

And also in team q, where i’m around 300-400 tough playing mostly as a solo player.

Sadly i can’t find you nor in EU neither in NA solo or team q ( really didn’t want to pick up this argument, but whatever).

learn how to play the game properly before spouting nonsense.

evilapprentice.6379:

Pyriall.5027:

evilapprentice.6379:

style.6173:

Pyriall.5027:

Poison on steal needs to go as well as the 900 range blind on black powder. The blind pulse on black powder needs to be adjusted as well. There are two abilities that deal with blind, one on engi and warrior. Not every profession can over load the blind, and thieves should not be immune to melee damage because they decided to hit 5.

The blindness is only for the first hit. As you know, most melee players are smart enough at this point not to just stand in the black powder.

Psssst, He doesn’t know that. His earlier post specifically mentions how most classes can’t “hack through the constant blind reapplications”. He can make all the arguments and propose all the hypotheticals in the world, but not knowing that makes it impossible to take his opinion seriously.

Pssst…I actually play this game.

I dont think this phrase means what you think it means. You keep saying it then directly contradicting it by saying things nobody who’s played this game for more than a week would say. Your opinions betray you – anyone can say “I actually play this game”, but if you weren’t aware that you can melee a thief sitting in a BP without touching the effect itself, it’s abundantly clear that you have a incomplete grasp on very basic game mechanics regardless of the amount of time you’ve “played the game”.

Your assertions are the kind that anyone with a weeks experience know are incorrect, inaccurate, or downright fabrications. You’re mouth is saying “I’m knowledgeable about this game”, but your understanding of basic mechanics is saying “I have no idea what I’m doing”.

Your assertions that the non-thief is the only one who knows how to play around BP is astoundingly short sighted and lends itself to proving you actually don’t play.

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m not going to defend Pistol Whip but I will point out that Pistol Whip has been largely unchanged since release. Only recently, and briefly during the first months, has it been considered overpowered.

Ask yourself why? If the ability hasn’t really changed (they did clean up the aftercast a bit, but also fixed the stun-sigil scaling to 1.0 seconds) then what has?

Substantial boost to passive initiative regeneration.

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

The only problem is, I actually play this game. Where as you obviously do not. You’re just another one of those delusional players who mistakes your success on thief as skill when in reality it is the broken nature of the thief profession as a whole.

Here’s your chance to prove me wrong. Go play another berserker build non-thief on a team and show me how skilled you were against them. I’ll wait here.

I play power necro in top 100 solo q.

And also in team q, where i’m around 300-400 tough playing mostly as a solo player.

Sadly i can’t find you nor in EU neither in NA solo or team q ( really didn’t want to pick up this argument, but whatever).

learn how to play the game properly before spouting nonsense.

I’ve been top 200 in both team and solo que. I’m not sure why you bring this up. Both queues are nothing more than glorified hotjoin.

What nonsense? I’ve played every single power build you can play and every one of them is made obsolete by thieves.

Pyriall.5027:

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

The only problem is, I actually play this game. Where as you obviously do not. You’re just another one of those delusional players who mistakes your success on thief as skill when in reality it is the broken nature of the thief profession as a whole.

Here’s your chance to prove me wrong. Go play another berserker build non-thief on a team and show me how skilled you were against them. I’ll wait here.

I play power necro in top 100 solo q.

And also in team q, where i’m around 300-400 tough playing mostly as a solo player.

Sadly i can’t find you nor in EU neither in NA solo or team q ( really didn’t want to pick up this argument, but whatever).

learn how to play the game properly before spouting nonsense.

I’ve been top 200 in both team and solo que. I’m not sure why you bring this up. Both queues are nothing more than glorified hotjoin.

What nonsense? I’ve played every single power build you can play and every one of them is made obsolete by thieves.

Exactly.

To be in leaderboard you don’t even be to need THAT competitive.

Still i can’t find you there.

This should show how good you are, if you can’t even be in leaderboard in this ridicolous state.

Get better, than you may legitimately post.

Thank you.

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Mrbig.8019:

Pyriall.5027:

Surferboy.1649:

to pyriall, do you know how much initiative skill 5 costs? you can’t barely do anything after it any more. and it blinds once per second, as soon as you use an attack like 100b you will still hit the thief.

.

Yes I know how much it costs. I also have the benefit of playing over 1000 games on every profession in every build imaginable. The common theme is that no matter what berserker build you play (outside of dps guardian), thieves make obsolete. Given their role in a team match they also make dps guardian obsolete. As I stated previously, not all professions can overload the blind with a multiple hit ability.

As to the thief doing anything after dropping it…all you need to do is auto attack out of it. If you are using dagger, you’ll have the added benefit of putting poison on your opponent. If sword, you’ll apply weakness and cripple. All the while you regain initiative.

Dude pls, stop this nonsense.

You’ve literally no clue about the thief profession and i really hope aNet won’t listen to people like you ( sad part is they do).

The only problem is, I actually play this game. Where as you obviously do not. You’re just another one of those delusional players who mistakes your success on thief as skill when in reality it is the broken nature of the thief profession as a whole.

Here’s your chance to prove me wrong. Go play another berserker build non-thief on a team and show me how skilled you were against them. I’ll wait here.

I play power necro in top 100 solo q.

And also in team q, where i’m around 300-400 tough playing mostly as a solo player.

Sadly i can’t find you nor in EU neither in NA solo or team q ( really didn’t want to pick up this argument, but whatever).

learn how to play the game properly before spouting nonsense.

I’ve been top 200 in both team and solo que. I’m not sure why you bring this up. Both queues are nothing more than glorified hotjoin.

What nonsense? I’ve played every single power build you can play and every one of them is made obsolete by thieves.

Exactly.

To be in leaderboard you don’t even be to need THAT competitive.

Still i can’t find you there.

This should show how good you are, if you can’t even be in leaderboard in this ridicolous state.

Get better, than you may legitimately post.

Thank you.

ROFL really? This isn’t my main account. That was permabanned for reposting something Helseth said. RUH ROH…Your argument just went up in flames.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m not going to defend Pistol Whip but I will point out that Pistol Whip has been largely unchanged since release. Only recently, and briefly during the first months, has it been considered overpowered.

Ask yourself why? If the ability hasn’t really changed (they did clean up the aftercast a bit, but also fixed the stun-sigil scaling to 1.0 seconds) then what has?

Substantial boost to passive initiative regeneration.

Yeah but not regeneration in total. Pistol Whip used to benefit a lot from the +Initiative on Crit trait when it didn’t have an icd. I know it was less reliable but it gave you roughly the same net Initiative.

I’ll propose a different theory as to why Pistol Whip has become so popular. The meta has become so focused on node and team-fights, where revives and finishers dictate the out of a fight rather than actual skill, that Pistol Whip has found its niche to shine.

While Pistol Whip isn’t all that great in 1v1, it does excel at suppressing revives while still dealing massive damage. The interrupt + cleave damage make it the perfect skill to use against revivers, which is incredibly important in team-fights.

If there was no downed-state or if finishing/reviving wasn’t so incredibly important I doubt Pistol Whip would be an issue. Picture sPvP without downed-state where people who died…just died. Pistol Whip would be robbed of it’s unique moment of Glory. It might still be considered good, but since the game is exclusively about killing stuff at this point and involves no downed-state shenanigans, other builds may well surpass it.

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m not going to defend Pistol Whip but I will point out that Pistol Whip has been largely unchanged since release. Only recently, and briefly during the first months, has it been considered overpowered.

Ask yourself why? If the ability hasn’t really changed (they did clean up the aftercast a bit, but also fixed the stun-sigil scaling to 1.0 seconds) then what has?

Maybe the appeal of Pistol Whip roots from elsewhere.

But I’m not going to deny that an ability that combines a stun, evades and nice cleave damage is problematic.

serious…. you dont Play since beta,
PW has got its 15% dmg nerf and reduced stun Duration since stun fixed ……
they will split the skill into 2, for better init. managment

Mrbig.8019:

I play power necro in top 100 solo q.

Mrbig.8019:

I main thief ( from beta)…

Mrbig.8019:

I hate this attitude.

Solo q ranking is a joke and usin it as some form of entitlment is ridicolous.

Much Confusion
Very Lie

They just need to bug fix Pistol Whip. In PW descrition there is not a evade so i believe its not a intended behavior for the skill. Probably they will fix that in the future.

silentnight warrior.2714:

They just need to bug fix Pistol Whip. In PW descrition there is not a evade so i believe its not a intended behavior for the skill. Probably they will fix that in the future.

It is a bug and needs fixing because it is hurting the game a lot.

I think a big problem that hasn’t been pointed out is how easy it is for the pw thief to initiate on squishy targets (ele/mesmer mostly) : Infiltrator’s signet. You just have to press infiltrator’s strike, infil signet and steal at the same time. It’ll combine the 3 ranges together in a giant port towards the target, instantly, without tells. If you basi on top, your target is already in huge trouble without even using pistolwhip itself.
Every thief no matter which spec nowadays is playing infiltrator’s signet for this reason. I’m not sure exactly how to fix it. Maybe keep it a stun break but add a cast time to it, like stomp on warrior ? It would make it impossible to use anything more than steal on top of it, and would decrease the speed at which the thief transitions from initiating to pistolwhip mashing. In any case, those instant dashes on the target for 2000+ range should not be possible imo.

Well the trade off is they waste their stun break for 30 sec, and all the squishy has to do is use one of their outs to counter the basi, so they arnt really at a disadvantage, it is just trading cooldowns for cooldowns.

Maybe nerf some other things instead? Shadowstep, refuge and infil signet are all very important in a lot of builds, I agree pw thief needs a nerf which makes it require more skill (hopefully) but the above mentioned ultilities are pretty overpowered aswell. Every good pvp thief build uses these ultilities, so think about changing these aswell please. (don’t make them unusable)

In a tpvp match scenario, the squishy IS in trouble because the thief can just port back if he uses a stun breaker and initiate again a few seconds later on the naked squishy.

Pistol Whip is clearly the problem – Just lower the damage for now and see what happens.

It’ll be a mistake to start messing about with traits that will affect D/P or S/D.

Thief is in an awesome place. Truly awesome. It’s the only profession that can solo warriors. It’s needed to stop decap engies. It annihilates the other zerker/roamer classes.

Pistol Whip has some issues, and I think spamming it is truly unfair. It’s actually more powerful than a Mesmer’s Blurred Frenzy, both in terms of damage, evasion, and CC. And it’s spammable.

I think PW needs an increased initiative cost, and they should consider either removing the stun or perhaps reducing the number of evade frames in the attack.

Not to derail this thread, but I also think the change should be coupled with a decrease in auto-attack damage. The increased initiative regeneration is good in that it lets thieves press more buttons.
However, thief auto-attack damage is incredibly strong, and requires no initiative. Good thieves will know to pool their initiative because it’s quite easy for them to soften up a target using auto-attack damage.

Here is a comparison:
Sword #1 auto-attack chain on Thief with Zerker amulet with no traits: 540, 540, 876
Sword #1 auto-attack chain on Mesmer with Zerker amulet with no traits: 406, 406, 606

I really believe the developers overlooked this ‘free’ damage when passively boosting thief initiative generation.

Imo the dmg is not the issue, the init cost may me increased my 1 to reduce the spam-ability of this skill and also the dase should be replace with something less penalizing for the target, something like a short cripple or a some other non dmging condition.

The evade… if you remove it this sill will become way to easy to interrupt and since the thief self-roots to use it, i think it is a necessary evil to have evade on it. Unless you chose to make it usable wile moving, then i thing the evade factor could be removed.

just my opinion.

Surferboy.1649:

thief is a high dmg, fast dead class, and as soon as you learn to evade his first 2 attacks, he is almost out of initiative. And a thief without initiative does no dmg and if you do it right he is dead.

i agree with this. but what bothers me is that the opponent has too little time to execute his attacks when effort was made to avoid the burst attacks. meaning that, dodges, blocks, invulnerables should be paid off and considered the counter to thieves.

this leaves me to say that either the initiative cost/regen needs to be modified.

1) increase cost of high damage skills by several points. and then increase the initiative regeneration to encourage other skills to be used to escape and wait for the initiative to regenerate.

or

2) decrease initiative regeneration by alot, but decrease the cost of the skills (by few not many, points) . (this will need a complete rework of thief skills)

or

3) decrease overall initative regeneration by (idk, u suggest) → after 3-4 seconds of not using any skills (except autoattack), the initiative regeneration is increased by 150% after that.

the meaning:
a thief uses his skills to burst some1 down. the opponent counters him with dodges → thief leaves himself vulnerable for a bit more than 4 seconds unless he has stealth skills or teleport utilities. (would suggest a decreased cost of initiatives for shadow return for this)

whats the meaning of initiatives? just think about it. so that thieves may burst quick and as soon as initiatives are depleted they are considered being under a “cooldown” to be able to burst again. well we don’t want to add cooldowns for a skill, but rather a real cooldown that matters when thieves fail to burst down an opponent.

i strongly support #3

lol and we all know the current meta is all about the trait line “critical strikes”. so why not add #3 in a that trait line (MINOR TRAIT) just to ensure this #3 system is forced upon zerk DPS users and not the other builds.