Guild Wars 2

Finally logging in I had to check…
All stuns/daze now have their exact duration, that seems to be how they fixed paralyzation by stopping the full second rounding.
Which means… Pistol whip doesn’t round to a second now, PW’s stun now lasts half as long, you get out .5s earlier. This has been effectively further neutered. So since reaching a “balanced” state in the October nerf it’s now lost haste, lost mug, lost its stun break out of S/D complaint, and now lost its stun out of a War dilemna. Not that this isn’t fixable they can surely upgrade the stun to 1s but who knows the timeframe for that. Tactical strike and headshot are also affected I don’t think any other weapon set lost so much potency in a patch, not that the headshot and tactical strike change are as important to this.

EDIT: Tyler Chapman has recently addressed that they are aware of the issue and will be discussing what they can do.

cool! pw build was the highest cap skill build we had (huehue haste op).
dead after 2 months anyway.

so, what is left to thief to be op? what build? thanks

U can rez people now! Enter support thief, aka ninja nurse!

Dang, I just picked it up too, gg.

GG anet; nerfing mesmer stuns; I’m okay with it though I now have a good supply of stability and cleanses…

Shouldn’t need paralyzation to kill people with pistol whip…

Steal will no longer daze for 2 seconds with paralyzation or mesmer runes. I never noticed a difference with headshot or pistol whip. And I don’t think it ever worked with bask venom either. Other classes lost more stun time than thieves did… :\

Yeah, I was afraid this would happen… honestly, there are many broken (as in OP) things about the thief, but Pistol Whip isn’t one of them (Although it was a bit lame when it had 25% more damage and could be combined with a 100% quickness. But that was a while ago.). Seems that the devs were only thinking about the longer stuns when making this change, even though they are the least affected ones.

Eurantien.4632:

Shouldn’t need paralyzation to kill people with pistol whip…

Paralyzation never worked with Pistol whip. If it does now and that is what you meant that would be surprising (does it make it .75 instead of .5s?) even then you’d be missing .25s from the original 1s.

Toroquin.3605:

Yeah, I was afraid this would happen… honestly, there are many broken things about the thief, but Pistol Whip isn’t one of them (Although it was a bit lame when it had 25% more damage and could be combined with a 100% quickness. But that was a while ago.). Seems that the devs were only thinking about the longer stuns when making this change, even though they are the least affected ones.

It feels quite shortsighted. Stuns are a global thing this will affect multiple professions. I don’t doubt Mesmer and Ranger with their duration increase traits that I seldom saw or Rune of the Mesmer suddenly finding that these are increasingly poor trade-off’s now as a result of their CC not being upscaled for the new rounding.

Rest in peace S/P you tried to stay relevant as long as you could.

I don’t think it ever made much of a difference. I tried it for a while (before change) and it wasn’t noticeable enough for me to want to run with it. So, I think you’re overreacting.

Shukran.4851:

cool! pw build was the highest cap skill build we had (huehue haste op).
dead after 2 months anyway.

so, what is left to thief to be op? what build? thanks

Thief is the best class at respawning after getting killed. They should nerf that too so that a thief has to spend 30 seconds dead before respawning.

Joking aside though, thief is one of the bottom two classes in PvP at the moment. Play warrior or necro if you want to be OP.

style.6173:

Shukran.4851:

cool! pw build was the highest cap skill build we had (huehue haste op).
dead after 2 months anyway.

so, what is left to thief to be op? what build? thanks

Thief is the best class at respawning after getting killed. They should nerf that too so that a thief has to spend 30 seconds dead before respawning.

Joking aside though, thief is one of the bottom two classes in PvP at the moment. Play warrior or necro if you want to be OP.

It was bottom 2 before this patch, now it’s bottom 1.

Sure they are. /Bad. Thieves were well represented at the last 2 big tournaments and there are tons of them in solo q.

Excalibur.9748:

style.6173:

Shukran.4851:

cool! pw build was the highest cap skill build we had (huehue haste op).
dead after 2 months anyway.

so, what is left to thief to be op? what build? thanks

Thief is the best class at respawning after getting killed. They should nerf that too so that a thief has to spend 30 seconds dead before respawning.

Joking aside though, thief is one of the bottom two classes in PvP at the moment. Play warrior or necro if you want to be OP.

It was bottom 2 before this patch, now it’s bottom 1.

Thief sets that were in question before have had quite little done to them including S/D. D/P and S/D aren’t really going to change in significance as a result of anything internally done to the thief. Headshot is still effective at its role of interrupting and Tactical strike is used too infrequently for the reduced duration from 2s rounded to flat 1.5s to be of great importance whether S/P or S/D. S/D’s boon reduction will put less pressure on boon profs, but it’s evasive defensive capability is untouched, which lets it keep staying power even if a S/D steals protection in reality he’s still a glass thief and he can’t actually eat damage. Only question for S/D is if teams feel he puts out enough pressure to keep, which will probably be a yes.

Only thing is I don’t know why you’d take S/P now unless you had a heavy cc comp to set it up, but given that why wouldn’t you just take HB which does more damage then a single PW if you that amount of of util. Group stealth? A Mesmer could fulfill that purpose and bring significant levels of cleave themselves.
Even in venom sharing P/P with the body shot may be able to serve that position better due to having more reliable damage on a single target.

But like I said it’s possible they just up the stun duration to match the new rounding system but perhaps not. If they put it to 1s, then Rune of mesmer I think could round it to 1.5s, which would be really potent and sigil of paralyzation would put it to 1.25 (which could be a slight buff to pre-patch).
Given that a potential 1.5s Pistol whip sounds too strong it may not get that.

putting a .25s stun on the first sword swing maybe? Immobilize is another option but that probably wont go well in practice.

Kata.6795:

U can rez people now! Enter support thief, aka ninja nurse!

Thieves are inferior in every aspect of this game besides this. All I was lacking was the name for this build. Thanks!

So…the two viable weaponsets (S/P + S/D) were nerfed.

And we gave a ranged, single-target, condi class access to immobilize. Why would a P/D or P/P thief run immobilize? They already had access to it from the venoms and never touched immobilize. It doesn’t need immobilize to apply it’s ranged condis. I guess P/D could use immobilize for focus targets in teamfights, but who in their right mind would use a single-target bleed stacking weaponset for teamfights?

Anet astounds again.

Errant Venture.9371:

So…the two viable weaponsets (S/P + S/D) were nerfed.

And we gave a ranged, single-target, condi class access to immobilize. Why would a P/D or P/P thief run immobilize? They already had access to it from the venoms and never touched immobilize. It doesn’t need immobilize to apply it’s ranged condis. I guess P/D could use immobilize for focus targets in teamfights, but who in their right mind would use a single-target bleed stacking weaponset for teamfights?

Anet astounds again.

A lot of rangers.

Eurantien.4632:

Errant Venture.9371:

So…the two viable weaponsets (S/P + S/D) were nerfed.

And we gave a ranged, single-target, condi class access to immobilize. Why would a P/D or P/P thief run immobilize? They already had access to it from the venoms and never touched immobilize. It doesn’t need immobilize to apply it’s ranged condis. I guess P/D could use immobilize for focus targets in teamfights, but who in their right mind would use a single-target bleed stacking weaponset for teamfights?

Anet astounds again.

A lot of rangers.

The rangers are also teambuffing like mad with 2-4 spirits and are on melee cleave sets as often (if they’re not really bad) as they’re on shortbow.

P/D thief doesn’t do anything but stack bleeds on a single target, safely stomp, and (now) immobilize. Using a whole weaponsets for single target bleeds, stomps, and immobilize is kind of a waste imho.

^ P/D*

15chars

Incurafy.6329:

^ P/D*

15chars

Fixed, thanks

ensoriki.5789:

Excalibur.9748:

style.6173:

Shukran.4851:

cool! pw build was the highest cap skill build we had (huehue haste op).
dead after 2 months anyway.

so, what is left to thief to be op? what build? thanks

Thief is the best class at respawning after getting killed. They should nerf that too so that a thief has to spend 30 seconds dead before respawning.

Joking aside though, thief is one of the bottom two classes in PvP at the moment. Play warrior or necro if you want to be OP.

It was bottom 2 before this patch, now it’s bottom 1.

Thief sets that were in question before have had quite little done to them including S/D. D/P and S/D aren’t really going to change in significance as a result of anything internally done to the thief. Headshot is still effective at its role of interrupting and Tactical strike is used too infrequently for the reduced duration from 2s rounded to flat 1.5s to be of great importance whether S/P or S/D. S/D’s boon reduction will put less pressure on boon profs, but it’s evasive defensive capability is untouched, which lets it keep staying power even if a S/D steals protection in reality he’s still a glass thief and he can’t actually eat damage. Only question for S/D is if teams feel he puts out enough pressure to keep, which will probably be a yes.

Only thing is I don’t know why you’d take S/P now unless you had a heavy cc comp to set it up, but given that why wouldn’t you just take HB which does more damage then a single PW if you that amount of of util. Group stealth? A Mesmer could fulfill that purpose and bring significant levels of cleave themselves.
Even in venom sharing P/P with the body shot may be able to serve that position better due to having more reliable damage on a single target.

But like I said it’s possible they just up the stun duration to match the new rounding system but perhaps not. If they put it to 1s, then Rune of mesmer I think could round it to 1.5s, which would be really potent and sigil of paralyzation would put it to 1.25 (which could be a slight buff to pre-patch).
Given that a potential 1.5s Pistol whip sounds too strong it may not get that.

putting a .25s stun on the first sword swing maybe? Immobilize is another option but that probably wont go well in practice.

my english is bad or im very tired, can u reassume with simple words what you wrote because i find it interesting? please

Shukran.4851:

ensoriki.5789:

Excalibur.9748:

style.6173:

Shukran.4851:

cool! pw build was the highest cap skill build we had (huehue haste op).
dead after 2 months anyway.

so, what is left to thief to be op? what build? thanks

Thief is the best class at respawning after getting killed. They should nerf that too so that a thief has to spend 30 seconds dead before respawning.

Joking aside though, thief is one of the bottom two classes in PvP at the moment. Play warrior or necro if you want to be OP.

It was bottom 2 before this patch, now it’s bottom 1.

Thief sets that were in question before have had quite little done to them including S/D. D/P and S/D aren’t really going to change in significance as a result of anything internally done to the thief. Headshot is still effective at its role of interrupting and Tactical strike is used too infrequently for the reduced duration from 2s rounded to flat 1.5s to be of great importance whether S/P or S/D. S/D’s boon reduction will put less pressure on boon profs, but it’s evasive defensive capability is untouched, which lets it keep staying power even if a S/D steals protection in reality he’s still a glass thief and he can’t actually eat damage. Only question for S/D is if teams feel he puts out enough pressure to keep, which will probably be a yes.

Only thing is I don’t know why you’d take S/P now unless you had a heavy cc comp to set it up, but given that why wouldn’t you just take HB which does more damage then a single PW if you that amount of of util. Group stealth? A Mesmer could fulfill that purpose and bring significant levels of cleave themselves.
Even in venom sharing P/P with the body shot may be able to serve that position better due to having more reliable damage on a single target.

But like I said it’s possible they just up the stun duration to match the new rounding system but perhaps not. If they put it to 1s, then Rune of mesmer I think could round it to 1.5s, which would be really potent and sigil of paralyzation would put it to 1.25 (which could be a slight buff to pre-patch).
Given that a potential 1.5s Pistol whip sounds too strong it may not get that.

putting a .25s stun on the first sword swing maybe? Immobilize is another option but that probably wont go well in practice.

my english is bad or im very tired, can u reassume with simple words what you wrote because i find it interesting? please

Thief was only okay before patch. Only one weapon set was decent (S/D) and two other specs were okay (S/P + D/P)

S/D was nerfed (S/D #3 only steals one boon)
S/P was nerfed (S/P #3 stun got cut in half 1s→0.5s thanks to Sigil of Paralyzation nerf)
Basilisk Venom nerfed (stunbreakers can now be used to break the Petrified effect)

Only buff (immobilize added to Pistol #2) doesn’t improve the weapon enough to make it viable.

Errant Venture.9371:

Thief was only okay before patch. Only one weapon set was decent (S/D) and two other specs were okay (S/P + D/P)

S/D was nerfed (S/D #3 only steals one boon)
S/P was nerfed (S/P #3 stun got cut in half 1s->0.5s thanks to Sigil of Paralyzation nerf)
Basilisk Venom nerfed (stunbreakers can now be used to break the Petrified effect)

Only buff (immobilize added to Pistol #2) doesn’t improve the weapon enough to make it viable.

appreciated. what about that “1.5s too op” he was talking about?

Bye bye thieves, welcome to the warrior class if you want to melee stuffs…

Shukran.4851:

appreciated. what about that “1.5s too op” he was talking about?

Pistol whip was a 1 second stun yesterday. If we set it back to 1 second then “Rune of the Mesmer” which increases daze and stun duration 33% will turn Pistol whip to a 1.5 second stun. Which may or may not be too much.

This is the old animation of Pistol whip which is about 2.5 seconds.
It takes ~.5 seconds from the start to stun a target.
Takes ~ 1.1 seconds from the start for your animation frames to start this is the same length of time you have to interrupt quite a most healing skills.
So if we look. .5s to stun, and then you get 1s of stun, so 1.5s into the animation the person you attack is still stunned. Your attack starts at 1.1 seconds so they are free 1 second before you complete the animation.

We had a patch to speed up the time before sword wings, I don’t have any speed information on this. The .5 second start is the same, lets go on a limb and say now evade frames start .8 seconds into it. With a 1 second stun they’ll be free .7s into the animation. If this stun was 1.5s, they’d be free .2s into the animation, basically they would eat the entire pistol whip.

Hence if PW duration = 1s then rune of mesmer multiples that 1.33x to 1.5 = Full PW damage.
Right now if we consider the attack starts at .8s, then with kitten stun there is 1.2s left of animation time. So basically right now when you look at animation time, your opponent is actually free earlier than the original Pistol whip which had trouble getting damage without haste and now haste is 50% weaker.
So what you’re left with is a pistol whip with less guaranteed damage, without haste to try and reduce that.
If you put it to 1 second you get a Pistol whip that can be completely self-reliant when runed for and is really powerful for taking someone out of the game.

Solution are to
a) Speed Pistol whip up even further
i) removing the time between the stun and the sword slashes completely
ii) speeding up the sword whips
iii) speeding up the entire thing

b) put the stun to 0.8 seconds rounding up to 1 second, this wont give any extra time with SoP or decrease the vulnerability frames of PW but will round to 1.25s with rune of the mesmer.

just started to use S/P 3 days ago.

Thanks anet for the balance patch.

Thanks aNet for the S/P nerf, this was seriously needed to refrain people from playing all this S/P fotm.

ensoriki.5789:

Pistol whip was a 1 second stun yesterday. If we set it back to 1 second then “Rune of the Mesmer” which increases daze and stun duration 33% will turn Pistol whip to a 1.5 second stun. Which may or may not be too much.

wasn’t stun and daze 2 different “conditions”? or at least weren’t they different a month or 2 after gw2 release? because i tested that combo in september and they “nerfed”(?) it…
considering the output of thief and considering the meta everyone is blaming, a CG PW thief with 1.5s stun is not so op imho.
my beloved pw build -_-

Nope they’re considered the same for duration purposes. When I say PW was 1 second yesterday I mean it rounded to 1 second, to get the same duration now it has to be between (assuming I know the rounding correctly) 0.76 seconds and 0.99 seconds to round to 1 second.

i am pretty sure that rune of the mesmers 6th buffed stuns, then they modified to daze and differentiate(d) stun from daze for this purpose, because of sigil paralization + rune of mesmer was a big buff to it…
do you confirms that I’m remembering wrong? just it.

I know from last week running rune of Mesmer on an Ele turned shock aura from a 1s stun to 2s stun. Which means the “daze” counts stuns. I know in PvE/WvW I run Sigil of paralyzation + Tactical strike and got a 3s daze.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze

houston, we have another bug here!

GJ !!

Am I the only one here playing s\p without paralization like i always did? u.u

Archaon.6245:

Am I the only one here playing s\p without paralization like i always did? u.u

It’s not about Paralyzation, it’s about the change to rounding on stuns. Which affects PW as a fractional stun.

ensoriki.5789:

Archaon.6245:

Am I the only one here playing s\p without paralization like i always did? u.u

It’s not about Paralyzation, it’s about the change to rounding on stuns. Which affects PW as a fractional stun.

As someone who has played S/P pretty much since launch I’ve noticed this immediately and I’m very upset about it

I really enjoyed the feel of S/P and it really seemed to be in a good place.

AshinDreidon.3861:

ensoriki.5789:

Archaon.6245:

Am I the only one here playing s\p without paralization like i always did? u.u

It’s not about Paralyzation, it’s about the change to rounding on stuns. Which affects PW as a fractional stun.

As someone who has played S/P pretty much since launch I’ve noticed this immediately and I’m very upset about it

I really enjoyed the feel of S/P and it really seemed to be in a good place.

It’s out of blue field which makes me think it is something they missed.

If they just missed it maybe Sharp/Allie can take note so we’re not left in the dark.

I’m glad there’s less spam stun and win builds. Thieves should have never gotta a high damage attack with a stun that lasts its entire duration in the first place given that they don’t run on cooldowns…

Not sure if serious. When did a 1 second = ~ 2.2 seconds?

Kata.6795:

U can rez people now! Enter support thief, aka ninja nurse!

Lmfao, I loved that name so much that I turned it into a build, thanks for the inspiration! XD

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/NEW-THIEF-BUILD-Time-to-adapt-once-again/

it just kitten es me off so much that they UNINTENIONALLY nerfed it the exact same time i started to play S/P and being succesful with it.

C’MON FIX IT

At least till the venom share train hits.

I retract my earlier statement. I didn’t realize how bad it was until I tested it.

Check out this video of the new pistolwhip: video

Chap/balance team: I know that you guys have been reading this forum all day, so if one of you could reply and acknowledge that you have read this thread and will be taking another look at Pistol Whip it would be greatly appreciated.

There are several threads on it now and it kind of sucks to be in the dark and not knowing if this was an intentional nerf or not. The stun now ends before the swings even begin, and that really does seem like an oversight.

Thanks.

They want us to go D/P because they invented this “Sic em”, why would you guys play sexy-stealthless S/P, you are not allowed to, because you, as a thief, should be countered with “sic em”.
End of story.

pantsforbirds.9032 : that’s the pw after patch? cool i be you can kill rabbits in pve now easier than before.. the pw damage is soo op it deserved a nerf/fix to his stun. i say pw is a useless set up since november, why would someone buff it.

dDuff.3860 : yeah, why play a high risk medium reward pw when you have other sets less difficult ? what is “sic em”

Shukran.4851:

pantsforbirds.9032 : that’s the pw after patch? cool i be you can kill rabbits in pve now easier than before.. the pw damage is soo op it deserved a nerf/fix to his stun. i say pw is a useless set up since november, why would someone buff it.

dDuff.3860 : yeah, why play a high risk medium reward pw when you have other sets less difficult ? what is “sic em”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_'Em%22

S/P was a really good set, nevermore.

They just have to buff the pistol whip to a full second and it will be good again.
Now will that happen in a near future? I highly doubt it… because you know “We dont want to do anything rash like we did before”.

Ugruk.4069:

They just have to buff the pistol whip to a full second and it will be good again.
Now will that happen in a near future? I highly doubt it… because you know “We dont want to do anything rash like we did before”.

Thats the only thing I can’t understand!
So everyone comments that Pistol Whip (key ability of the whole set) is not usable now → weaponset is subpar. Ok lets have for another patch for about 4 months!

I still have hopes for hotfix → Warrior permaimmobilize, may be thiefs will get their stuff hotfixed too.

still no dev answer ?

Why don’t they understand they’ve UNINTENIONALLY totally broken a set ?

Mrbig.8019:

still no dev answer ?

Why don’t they understand they’ve UNINTENIONALLY totally broken a set ?

And no answer on warrior’s “leg specialist”
Seems like it was intentional

dDuff.3860:

Mrbig.8019:

still no dev answer ?

Why don’t they understand they’ve UNINTENIONALLY totally broken a set ?

And no answer on warrior’s “leg specialist”
Seems like it was intentional

with immo stacking, venom share is so broken it’s not even funny.