Guild Wars 2

Is there anything going to happen to Thieves Pistolwhip+haste since it can 1 shot anyone almost. luckily you can get out of it but if you ran out of luck (me) you get 1 shotted. I had 2,3k toughness on my Ranger but it didn’t much help and when i saw the skill usage list i looked pistolwhip 26times O.o— not a rage post ^^

add a stun breaker to your utility skill.. preferably with low CD.. it will highly increase your chances to figh against.

I know Pistol Whip can deal quite a lot of damage. Roughly 5k in PvE…probably 7k in PvP with the right traits and the exotic gear.

That’s still a far cry from one-shotting, hasted or not.

That said, it is indeed a bit broken. Unfortunately most popular Thieves builds revolve around spaming one particular attack. That’s because the Initiative system encourages Thieves to dump all their resources into their most effective move, whichever that may be, instead of rotate between different abilities like most other classes.

ANet may nerf Pistol Whip, like they did Heartseeker (as minor a nerf as it was) but ultimately nothing much will change until the initiative system is revised.

And bring an immobilise remover aswell most thief’s use devourer venom.

immobilise is a condition so stun breaker wont work on it.

PW is not the real problem – its haste. If you get caught off guard or in a channel and say 2/3 health, a haste double PW = down.

Ah i skipped over op a bit fast as ranger signet of renewal is the only condition remover you can use when you want, or a bear’s f2 ability but i don’t really trust the bear to do it quick enough.

I ran into the same problem on my ranger its pretty annoying and undodgeable because of the skill 2 teleport for thief is instant and venom procs off of a hit.

You can also use the thing that makes your pet take damage for you for 6 seconds ( it will die instantly, or the signet the makes your pet invincible and use traits to make it work on you too but they force us to make a build in a very specific way.

I invest 1 utility in teleport skill where available, or insta condition and stun removal where not. Not only does that save you from PW spam, but also from Charge warrs. Only thing is – u just gotta be fast with it, couse pain is coming soon.

I’m playing Mesmer atm so i either take many stun breakers + Condition removal or i survive longer with luck. Using Blink as a escape from Pistolwhip spam sometimes it goes alright and i manage to kill thief but sometimes they just one shots me and the weirdest part is how they can get 26hits with that? don’t they run off with they’re skill points?

When i tried mesmer thiefs were pretty easy, take blink and nullfied utilities. Blink away from immobilise, or if thats on cd throw a nullfield at your feet.

I was built for phantasms, the greatsword one cripples and does nice dmg, and then i took 1h sword and pistol, so you can daze them from far when you blink.

Just keep on using blink – at the end, u will learn to use it before their third pistol whip.
No need for nullfield – when blink is on cd, use #2 from sword for survival.

And i can dodge warriors bulls charge with easy now but the main problemo is the thief teleport haste PW + Blink got pretty long CD as well

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.8.12.3.0.20.0.0.0.0.180.191.196.199.203.8.2.24.528.535.0.542.550.0.0.0.0.572.575.0.0.0.0.20.20.0.25.5

Im not 100% sure if this was the build i used, i deleted my mesmer to try out engi.

On greatsword and 1h sword use rune of energy, on pistol 5% dmg increase.

dodge after stun ends = waste of initiative
break stun = waste of initiative
blind = waste of initiative
regards

a thief

Haste have 60 sec CD (48 with traits) and max 2.5 PW when haste is proc. If a thief is using haste to burst you die, you def need to use a equivalent long cd defensive skill to avoid the damage (either a stun break, blink skill or vapor form etc).

If a thief one shot you (11k++), it is ok because you are running glass cannon build and you are supposed to deal burst damage and take huge burst damage at the same time.

if a thief one shot you when you have low hp and stun break is in cd, it is still ok, because they just jump out at the right timing regardless whatever build they are running, you will die.

I think before complaining about one build or skill, why not you create another char and just try this out yourself. you will know it is not that easy to land it on good players, and you will know how to counter it by using this skill.

Migo.2154:

Haste have 60 sec CD (48 with traits) and max 2.5 PW when haste is proc. If a thief is using haste to burst you die, you def need to use a equivalent long cd defensive skill to avoid the damage (either a stun break, blink skill or vapor form etc).

If a thief one shot you (11k++), it is ok because you are running glass cannon build and you are supposed to deal burst damage and take huge burst damage at the same time.

if a thief one shot you when you have low hp and stun break is in cd, it is still ok, because they just jump out at the right timing regardless whatever build they are running, you will die.

I think before complaining about one build or skill, why not you create another char and just try this out yourself. you will know it is not that easy to land it on good players, and you will know how to counter it by using this skill.

^This. It’s why I made a Warrior to mess around with Bull’s Charge and 100B, when I play a Thief. You want to find flaws in Thief’s PW, play one yourself.

Instead, this seems like someone complaining while exageratting the “1 shot” part. HS was already nerfed, now they want PW nerfed because they’re too ignorant to keep a stun breaking utility skill.

I bet 10s that the OP probably runs around with nothing but damage utility skills.

“ArenaNet, nerf paper. Scissors is fine.

- Rock"

Thank god ArenaNet said they wont listen to forum QQ.

The only thing i dislike about pistol whip is the fact that it has no cd. So you can get away from a couple of them but eventually they will get you.

So you won the nerf heartseeker battle and now you go for the other Thief builds. Maybe you could give the Thief a “roll over and die” dual skill and be done with it

Heartseeker nerf has only affected those who spammed it

Derps.7421:

The only thing i dislike about pistol whip is the fact that it has no cd. So you can get away from a couple of them but eventually they will get you.

The cooldown is the initiative cost. Unlike heartseeker, you can only use Pistol Whip twice and then you have no initiative for anything else. Use pistol whip with quickness and you have no endurance to get out safely.

There are traits and skills to mitigate the loss of endurance and you can get an extra pw with 15 points in trickery but doing that sacrifices a utility slot and traits that could be put to better use

Actually, pistol whip and 100b can 1shot most squishies before the animation ends, I run 3200 toughness and ~17,000 health on an Engineer and I do lose 3/4 of my health to a pistol whip if I don’t stun break it.

More balanced than Guardians.

Dee Jay.2460:

I know Pistol Whip can deal quite a lot of damage. Roughly 5k in PvE…probably 7k in PvP with the right traits and the exotic gear.

That’s still a far cry from one-shotting, hasted or not.

That said, it is indeed a bit broken. Unfortunately most popular Thieves builds revolve around spaming one particular attack. That’s because the Initiative system encourages Thieves to dump all their resources into their most effective move, whichever that may be, instead of rotate between different abilities like most other classes.

ANet may nerf Pistol Whip, like they did Heartseeker (as minor a nerf as it was) but ultimately nothing much will change until the initiative system is revised.

Yep, this is true. The initiative system isn’t that great.

Any channeled skill that delivers multiple hits to a standing still target, given that the user is specced and traited for power / crit, will deliver a huge amount of damage, reason is simple, each individual hit can crit, which adds a lot of damage, and it becomes a true burst skill if haste is used before starting the animation due to the speed at which the hits connect.

Mesmer blurred frenzy, Warrior 100B, Thief PW and Unload, Ranger Rapid Fire, all have same effect under haste.

And that’s the point of dodging, teleporting, immunity / dmg reduce CDs, blind, weakness etc. You can’t simply make a tanky character and expect to take 1k dmg from a character built to deal burst damage just because you overemphasis toughness. 1 mug crit and a backstab crit can do as much damage with a glass cannon build, one killshot or eviscerate etc.

Peeps need to realize that game requires you to pay attention to such skills and not just build tanky chars and expect to live through stuff.

I seen condition Ranger melting full tanky characters inside a stun and immobilize with haste and just firing autoattack from shortbow in the back arc of a character.

Anelyn, I still think these skills are doing way too much damage considering quickness combined with crowd control and their low cooldown. I carry two stun breaks on my point defense Engi build BECAUSE of these insanely strong skills, I can dodge roll a bull charge given a decent amount of distance as well. I agree that paying attention is the best way to avoid dying to this, but the damage paired with the cooldowns and a single crowd control… there’s a reason I see these skills ran in every game.

Stun breaker won’t help. You are instantly re-stunned. You need an Invuln. Like Mistform, or Elixir S.

I think they need to tone down Quickness/Haste in general. The tooltip says twice as fast, but it seems much much higher than that.

A small reduction in that speed boost will bring all the QQ burst builds in line.

The burst of all classes, combined with haste is to strong right now. Skills that can be spammed should be mediocre and not good or very good tools. The whole concept of having a really good skill that can also be spammed is game breaking. Its almost impossible to balance the initiative system. If a skill is not good enough it wont be used at all, if a skill is to good it will be spammed. Theirs no real middle ground.

Next it will be:
“y derz steel let yu use my 100 bleds skil, dat makes werrior useluss and thif op pls nerf”

Mayama.1854:

The burst of all classes, combined with haste is to strong right now.

Scepter and dagger Elementalist here. Am I included in the “burst of all classes”? Because my client seems to be missing the burst hotkey…

Seems like haste skills shouldn’t even be in the game in my opinion.

frenzy was in gw1.

haste is not only a good thing, but it take from you something to equalize:
on war you take more damage
on thief you lose all endurance and stop from gaining while under haste
on mesmer elite high cd.
… you have to be smart to use it properly.

Lmao. Ok with haste you can take some damage but still able to roll out of the full damage IF you know what you are doing. If you are slow to react then I’m sorry for you but it’s not the ability, it’s you.

You can roll out of a hasted PW by the time he’s gonna throw the second stun if you are interested in surviving and fighting back, if not, come here and cry to the devs cause, obviously, crying for thief nerfs is the in fashion on this forum.

Personally I hope you quit.

mickers.2715:

And bring an immobilise remover aswell most thief’s use devourer venom.

immobilize is a condition so stun breaker wont work on it.

Well unfortunately for rangers, they have to bend over and take it.

Ranger’s have 0 reliable measures to remove immobilize in a pinch or even displace themselves.

Nemo.6295:

Lmao. Ok with haste you can take some damage but still able to roll out of the full damage IF you know what you are doing. If you are slow to react then I’m sorry for you but it’s not the ability, it’s you.

You can roll out of a hasted PW by the time he’s gonna throw the second stun if you are interested in surviving and fighting back, if not, come here and cry to the devs cause, obviously, crying for thief nerfs is the in fashion on this forum.

Personally I hope you quit.

Personally I hope they remove quickness so people that rely on it have to learn how to play to get their kills. =p

Yeah and the quickness affects on finisher too how lame is that? you have absolutely no chance knocking him down if warrior/Thief got quickness… Dead—→ Animation

my only doubt is about quick stomp and quick res, which are lame in my opinion.
but in battle using quickness can be good and bad at the same time. how many of you did whine at gw1 for frenzy warriors?
learn to avoid the frenzy guy and he will have a baad time.

There are many counters to Pistol Whip but I’m not going share them because I like killing people with it. The best way to learn how to counter a Thief is to play one in sPvP. They aren’t as easy against skilled PvPers.

Knote.2904:

Well unfortunately for rangers, they have to bend over and take it.

Ranger’s have 0 reliable measures to remove immobilize in a pinch or even displace themselves.

Do you have a stun? A Daze? a Knockback, evade?
Point blank shot? Knockback
Concussion Shot? Daze (Stun from behind)
Counter Attack? Block & Knockback
Hilt Bash? Daze (stun from behind)
Hornet Sting? Evade
Stalker’s Strike? Evade

You maybe immobilized but you are far from helpless.
Learn to think maybe?

Knote.2904:

mickers.2715:

And bring an immobilise remover aswell most thief’s use devourer venom.

immobilize is a condition so stun breaker wont work on it.

Well unfortunately for rangers, they have to bend over and take it.

Ranger’s have 0 reliable measures to remove immobilize in a pinch or even displace themselves.

Nemo.6295:

Lmao. Ok with haste you can take some damage but still able to roll out of the full damage IF you know what you are doing. If you are slow to react then I’m sorry for you but it’s not the ability, it’s you.

You can roll out of a hasted PW by the time he’s gonna throw the second stun if you are interested in surviving and fighting back, if not, come here and cry to the devs cause, obviously, crying for thief nerfs is the in fashion on this forum.

Personally I hope you quit.

Personally I hope they remove quickness so people that rely on it have to learn how to play to get their kills. =p

So they would have to remove at least 70% of the snares, knockdowns, disables, etc. Because for us warriors, we have only seconds near the target before it freeze you, throw you away, snare you, teleport, double dodge away, go invisible, etc etc, so the frenzy is a must since we cant put pressure, just brusts mostly.

I tried pistol whipping but it isn’t as good as people say. It’s 1/2 second stun, which can still be broken if people would bother to use stun breaker skills.

I started running this build on my Thief after someone destroyed my Mesmer with it. It’s not really as powerful as I thought, since you can get out of the spam even without a stun break (unless my spamming skills are lacking?), and if you dodge the second/third PW, the Thief is kinda screwed with low initiative and no endurance.

Does PW hurt? Yes. Does it hurt even more with quickness? Yes. Does it 1 shot you? No.
Even if you only have 17k hp (glass cannon) PW will not 1 shot you. 2 PW’s will kill you though. It takes more skill than people realize to set up and execute. It only has a 1/2 second stun, so PW spammers HAVE to have haste to make PW work. Not to mention that 3 PW will drain all of your initiative plus endurance if you used haste.

Pistol Whip does 12-15k one shot so does Hundred Blades

So you clicked a button and did 12-15k to someone and your gonna argue that’s balanced, lol games gonna flop if it continues on this path

The problem with the entire l2p and l2dodge thing is that no other class got the same burst. If you dodge, then it’s ok but if not…kitten u’re downed with just 1 skill. The burst is so insane and just a little mistake will make you pay so hard while other classes like ele and necro u need to chain full rotations with very good precision to do a subpar damage. There is no room for just 1 mistake when you fight a HB warrior or a PW thief. Its just not fun to play a game with these mechanics for some classes while others actually are fun and requires good level of player skill.

Getting stunlocked by multiple thieves is pretty frustrating though. On top of that the basilisk venom prevents you from dodging. Everyone has stunbreakers not everyone has immobilize remove. All you can do is blind.

I usually bring utilities to get out of such situations. So if I see them coming it’s fine (since I have the reflexes to get out of them).

However, invisibility is a problem. Sometimes I don’t see them show up visibly until 2-3 seconds after they’re supposed to reveal themselves. That is, they’re usually on their 2nd or 3rd chain of pistol whip before they actually show up on my screen (so I don’t know where the damage is coming from in a chaotic situation until it’s too late).

I don’t understand why I have to play flawlessly, and time my abilities perfectly because one guy learned how to click a button.

The issue with 100 blades and pistol whip is not the ability itself, but quickness. The abilities have major flaws which can be abused during the fight, however quickness makes up for this.

As a thief, I actually dislike pistol whip. I have used it in tournaments and sPvP, but feel it’s a clunky mechanic, and having to stand still to deal 4-11k damage (depending on the target) does not appeal to me at all. When hasted, yes, you can get 2 pistol whips off in 4 seconds, and if the squishy is not running any stun breakers they will die, but it is very much a 1-trick pony.

Dodging is very difficult if the thief should use Infiltrator’s Stike first, as you’re immobilized, and it’s very difficult to to time a dodge against a shadowstep like that. However if you’re getting 1-2 shot by this ability, you need to remember 2 things.

1: He just blew a cooldown to kill you. His next fight won’t be nearly as easy.
2: You most likely built glass cannon. Expect to die. The thief is glass cannon as well. Try and catch him before he catches you next time, or avoid him until you have a friend. Don’t keep bashing your head on a brick wall if you can’t beat a player. Outsmart him.

@kage: so what kind of build should a thief pay? i use pistol whip, but i dont use haste anymore. more difficult to play and i can say

I don’t understand why I have to play flawlessly, and time my abilities perfectly because one guy learned how to click a button

, because i use a lot all my 5 skills with my thief because they are all 100% usefull, while other classes come and destroy me because thief has paper armor.

but just because community plays 8v8 as pvp of reference, instead of 5v5, and refuse to learn to play, they come here and whine.

ofc thieves can be tricky, but everytime i face them as thief i win because they are lazy to use only pistol whip while i can use all my skills.

learn to play, or learn to ask advices in the thief section, or here if you prefer, to how beat pistol whip thieves, and stop whine.

Crux of the problem with Hasted PW spam is that you get stunned repeatedly. Feel free to break the first one, you’ll likely be hit by the second especially as a melee. Ranged have it a little easier as once they break the first one they can kite, but with multiple shadowsteps (steal, Inf. Strike, and u-skill if they grabbed it) it’s pretty hard to kite them as well. 100% need stability, or invul., or an evasion build on a Thief to really have a solid chance. Otherwise it’s kind of a crap shoot given that PW acts a little strangely with latency. Sometimes I swear it should have been dodged, but here I am caught in a 6k damage PW.

That said, I’ve learned to deal with it effectively enough. Ranger is far more CD reliant on beating it than Thief (my two most played classes), so if my relevant CDs aren’t up I generally just avoid them if at all possible.

Even with stability, though, it can be rough. If they have half a brain, they’ll realize you’ve popped stability which is generally only 6 seconds long. Once they notice it, they dodge a few times, pop a stealth or shadowreturn to avoid your damage, then proceed to bash your face in. Rampage as One is one of the best skills to have against these Thieves as a Ranger.

Please, Arena Net…can you make it against the rules for people to repeatedly step into a forum with the intention of asking for nerfs? I’ve already had to avoid the class and PvP specific boards in other MMO’s for that very reason. I’d hate to have to do the same here as well.

Gimmicky builds are going to pop up all the time. Learn to counter them and they’re ridiculously easy to deal with.

@Shukran

It’s not what spec -should- a thief play. It’s what spec does the player prefer to play. I personally like a backstab spec, or sword/dagger daze spec for my own playstyle. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Sword/pistol doesn’t mean you have to spam PW at all, and players who don’t are usually better than the ones who do, because they understand the other situational abilities.

However, people will complain about your HS or PW even if you don’t use it. Least they did when I was playing sword/dagger and had neither of the abilities on my skillbar.

So, a thief blows multiple CD’s (Devourer’s Venom, a gap closer (Inf strike, steal, inf sig), haste)), and every class should just be able to hit a stunbreak and get off scott free? If any class is going to spend a number of utilities, and a ton of initiative/big CD skill (5 just for 1 Whip, 8 if they opened with inf Strike), you should expect to have to sink similar resources into avoiding it. Engineers can just hit Elixir S, giving them the spare time to type out “lol, haste wasted”. Warriors can break stun and use their immune, or their shield block skill, and just stroll on out (or sit there and block every shot, if immobilized) – “lol, haste wasted”. Guardian can break stun and throw up any of their multiple block options, severely limiting the connecting strikes. I believe necro’s can go plague form and just spam their blind (though I don’t know for sure).

Point is, if ALL the thief is using is haste and pistol whip, its amazingly easy to hit stun break and dodge roll – you WILL escape, as long as you have a decent reaction time. If the thief is going to start investing more into it (gap closer, venom, etc), plan on bringing more than just a stun break to evade it.