Guild Wars 2

Stand The Wall.6987:

1/2 sec daze and evade in the beginning.
Balanced?

What ? PW has two phase

1) Pistol attack with 3/4s cast time + little stun 1/2s and no evade
2)Sword attack with +- 1 sec evade

Evilek.5690:

Stand The Wall.6987:

1/2 sec daze and evade in the beginning.
Balanced?

What ? PW has two phase

1) Pistol attack with 3/4s cast time + little stun 1/2s and no evade
2)Sword attack with +- 1 sec evade

Wrong.

Pistol whip has two phase:

1. Downing glassy enemies by spamming 3.
2. Blind stomp them.

Stand The Wall.6987:

1/2 sec daze and evade in the beginning.
Balanced?

The issue with it being a daze is that Pistol Whip would no longer even have a single guaranteed hit. Honestly I don’t think anyone thinks about these suggestions before they type them out.

runeblade.7514:

Evilek.5690:

runeblade.7514:

Evilek.5690:

Stand The Wall.6987:

1/2 sec daze and evade in the beginning.
Balanced?

What ? PW has two phase

1) Pistol attack with 3/4s cast time + little stun 1/2s and no evade
2)Sword attack with +- 1 sec evade

Wrong.

Pistol whip has two phase:

1. Downing glassy enemies by spamming 3.
2. Blind stomp them.

Does it cost to respond to your stupid post?

It doesn’t cost anything to hear what PW thieves do.

Also, you obviously have no idea what thieves do. The autoattack has the same overall DPS as Pistol whip and can upkeep 100% crippled and weakness, shutting down nukers and burst classes. Any good thief who uses S/P is and will be insulted by being accused of spamming 3 (which everyone does, even when you only used it once – at the opportune moment – because they don’t know what they’re talking about and will look for any outlet to blame for them losing to an S/P thief).

Just remove the stun completely.
It already have high damage and evade and you have a immobilize+gap closer in same ability on same weapon set while also having a interrupt and blind field.

Although i guess it could be more useful/more annoying if the damage started instantly in some situations even without stun.. So maybe not a great idea afterall

You remember the reason for nerfing the damage on warrior hammer?
“we want to separate damage from CC”
Yes PW is a single target mele stun, unlike the hammer. but with so many insta teleports landing it is so much easier then landing earthshaker (in 1v1).
So yeah, no reason for it to do as much damage as the auto attack because it already stun the opponents!
See how often you land a full or almost full PW against the times you land of full AA chain – much more. Who ever eats a whole auto attack chain of any weapon without being cc?

Oh and that evade – is a bug. Beside the fact that putting evade on this skill negates all elements of risk/reward from it, it also have no mention in skill description so it is a bug, and will surly get fix very fast (by 20126).

Eiland.1405:

You remember the reason for nerfing the damage on warrior hammer?
“we want to separate damage from CC”
Yes PW is a single target mele stun, unlike the hammer. but with so many insta teleports landing it is so much easier then landing earthshaker (in 1v1).
So yeah, no reason for it to do as much damage as the auto attack because it already stun the opponents!
See how often you land a full or almost full PW against the times you land of full AA chain – much more. Who ever eats a whole auto attack chain of any weapon without being cc?

Oh and that evade – is a bug. Beside the fact that putting evade on this skill negates all elements of risk/reward from it, it also have no mention in skill description so it is a bug, and will surly get fix very fast (by 20126).

This is joke right ?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker 2s stun every 6 sec
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Staggering_Blow 1sec fly back
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backbreaker 2 sec knockdown

or

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Crack 3sec stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pommel_Bash 1sec daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tremor 2sec knockdown

And ofc +50% crit chance on stuned target

VS

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip 0.5 sec stun ?

lolol

PW fair and balanced working as intended etc etc

And no, its not the initiative system thats the root of the problem, Pistol Whip is the equivalent of a spammable quadruple stance hundred blades with a fraction of the cast time and a stun.

The problem with the build is that in every situation if you just press 3 at the right time and cannonball teleport into peoples faces you won’t really be doing anything wrong. Low risk, easy to play, high reward.

Tbh it’s not so much a problem with the skill. It’s the initiative system. The skill is easy to counter once but sadly initiative creates huge imbalance issues with the thief that allows specialisation on demand (ridiculous mobility, spamming evasion, spamming AoE with SB, spamming PW etc.).

I think the only way to fix thieves is a complete rework with initiative removed however given the pride in Anet’s balance team it likely won’t happen.

Pixels.6532:

I think people are confusing 1v1 vs. the meta game. In a 1v1, with both classes having everything off cd, PW is very strong but probably not OP v. all other classes (not just ele/mes). Where it is a bit OP is in its function within the 5v5, conquest game mode.

It can create out-numbered situations quickly, and it is devastating when it shows up to a 1v1 in process. You can’t walk through a PW w/ a 2-4 sec immobilize on you while your clears are on cd, and the evade up-times during the PW make it even more difficult to counter on lock-down.

Yeah, basically this.

I saw the fight between you and Shad.

Do you want Pistol Whip nerfs because you didnt beat a thief using it in a 2vs1.

http://www.twitch.tv/blu42/c/3791781

Maybe you should write an application on the forums to get into the balance team of Arenanet.

Nice post, MTC. Very relevant and, apparantly, very controversial among low tier PvP players. This is obviously the most OP dps build at the moment (Maybe of all time? Since thieves always had some broken ability, this one might be the most broken?), and if one lacks the ability to decipher this statement, they’re simply in denial. This is the build which, once more, puts necros out of play, adding, once more, once more, once mo…

I wish a had better arguments, but it would end in me spamming caps lock, calling everyone, pro this build, idiots, because that’s what this build represents, and the creators of it (Anet).

I’m just going to say that it IS true that thiefs don’t have very many viable builds, and taking/nerfing at this moment is NOT something that should be done.

But

Pistol whip IS ridiculous. After the unintended nerf to stuns in general pistol whip got hit a bit. Now instead of taking the entire brunt of the skill you took 3 hits at most.

Then Arena Net fixed the after cast so that thiefs weren’t vulnerable for completing a pistol whip. However now all I have seen in tPvP regarding pistol whip thiefs is utilizing the maximum amount of shadowsteps (3) and spamming pistol whip.

Let’s look at the skill.

1.) Does good damage even if you don’t hit the opponent with all your attacks, think of it as a spammable 100 blades as mentioned above that is quicker, and gives you invulnerability to attacks.
2.) As mentioned it can be spammed. The stun, while short, can halt an enemy for a brief second therefore sustaining either more damage from other enemies, or more damage from another pistol whip.

But what is REALLY wrong with this skill? The fact that it can be spammed of course. Imagine the thiefs pistol 4 skill “Headshot”. In it’s current form it is incredibly annoying to a player, and the only real use is to prevent a hard hitting attack, or someone from rezzing when they have no stability. Pistol whip is a more deadly and equally annoying version of such a skill.

Summary: While the skill is in my opinion overpowered. The Thief is simply too low on viable classes to warrant a nerf at this time. Perhaps in the furure, if the Thief receives buffs in the right areas that provides more viable builds, we could see a nerf being implemented.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Stand The Wall.6987:

1/2 sec daze and evade in the beginning.
Balanced?

The issue with it being a daze is that Pistol Whip would no longer even have a single guaranteed hit. Honestly I don’t think anyone thinks about these suggestions before they type them out.

The fact that the skill can and is used over and over would guarantee hits. Do you have a better idea?

The skill on it’s own is not a bad design. The Problem lies on the mechanic of initiative and the fact you can literally spam it.

Initiative is the source of the problem and anyone who denies this is fooling themselves. I say again, thieves need a class rework. I think removing the initiative system and giving thieves new different skills that still allow them to have that burst and mobility that makes them unique and powerful can still be achieved without ruining the class and actually making it a lot more fun to play and play against. The initiative system is the core to all their problems: stealth spam, back stab spam, pistol whip spam, heart seeker spam. Pistol whip and backstab high attack power would not be op if there wasn’t an initiative system. There will ALWAYS be constant complaints about thieves littering the forums as long as there is an initiative system or if they are nerfed into ashes. Please fix the class, personally as a person who mained a thief: I would go back to playing it as my main if there were no initiative system because with this system it makes the weapon sets rely on one attack while the other attacks are pointless to use for damage giving it no real diversity to play with any particular weapon set.

If you disagree, please reply in a respectful manner and I would love to debate about it, hell you may even change my mind if you bring up some really strong points but I just don’t see any other way at the moment. I know thieves would be afraid of such a drastic change to their class and a lot of people don’t like change because of the fear that their class would be ruined but think about, if done right, how great and better the class could be. My 2cents

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

The thief is the same as a warrior.Warrior/Thief is anti noobs class and no H/B warrior is not OP only unskilled noobs say “OMG Warrior is so OP !!”

Evilek.5690:

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

With biased timeline illogical is easily achieved.

You only “forgot” about:
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip does less damge then aout attack – attack bump
People cry S/P not viable – initiative cost reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip too hard to connect – skill time reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip still does less dmg then auto attack – dmg bump
People cry w/o endless stun break on sword #2 thief is dead class – ini +33% bump

Your logic may rest now

Eiland.1405:

Evilek.5690:

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

With biased timeline illogical is easily achieved.

You only “forgot” about:
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip does less damge then aout attack – attack bump
People cry S/P not viable – initiative cost reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip too hard to connect – skill time reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip still does less dmg then auto attack – dmg bump
People cry w/o endless stun break on sword #2 thief is dead class – ini +33% bump

Your logic may rest now

Less iniciative cost ?

All PW change

-15% DMG
smaller gaps pistol->sword attack
Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds
Nerf stun duration (paralyse sigil)

Where is your reduce Initiative cost ?

And ofc here is your Initiative regen boost lol

Base Regen —-———————————- .750 => 1.00 (+33%)
*Opportunity —-——————————— 1.0 ==> 0.20 (- 85%)
CS VIII (Untraited, Traited)
Signet of Malice (1)
17 —-———————————- .118 => .059 (-50%)
14 —-———————————- .143 => .071 (-50%)
Infiltrator’s Signet,
Signets of Agility
and Shadows (3)
30 —-———————————- .067 => .033 (-50%)
24 —-———————————- .083 => .042 (-50%)
Assassin’s Signet
45 —-———————————- .044 => .022 (-50%)
36 —-———————————- .056 => .028 (-50%)
Acro IX
2 every 10 sec —-——————- .200 => .100 (-50%)
Acro XII
3 every 9 seconds —-————— .333 —-—- .333 (NC0%)
Trick V
3 every (?) seconds
0 35 —-—————————- .086 => .057 (-33%)
5 33.25 —-———————— .090 => .060 (-33%)
10 31.75 —-———————— .094 => .063 (-33%)
15 30.5 —-————————- .098 => .066 (-33%)
20 29.25 —-———————— .103 => .068 (-33%)
25 28 —-—————————- .107 => .071 (-33%)
30 27 —-—————————- .111 => .074 (-33%)
w/XII 21.5 —-————————- .140 => .093 (-33%)
Trickery XI
4 on heal
Signet of Malice (traited) — .286 ——— .286 (NC0%)
Signet of Malice —-————- .235 —-—- .235 (NC0%)
Withdraw —-————————- .250 —-—- .250 (NC0%)
Hide in Shadows —-————— .133 —-—- .133 (NC0%)
Infiltrator’s Signet (Passive)
1 every 10 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
Roll For Initiative
6 every 60 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
Roll For Initiative (Traited)
6 every 48 seconds —-————- .125 —-—- .125 (NC0%)

Eiland.1405:

Evilek.5690:

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

With biased timeline illogical is easily achieved.

You only “forgot” about:
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip does less damge then aout attack – attack bump
People cry S/P not viable – initiative cost reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip too hard to connect – skill time reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip still does less dmg then auto attack – dmg bump
People cry w/o endless stun break on sword #2 thief is dead class – ini +33% bump

Your logic may rest now

lol @ how their december 10th changes btw. Thief was already maybe the best class. Then what do they do? The buff initiative by 33%. lol – hilarious. And what do they lose? They nerf some initiative traits. So now a thief can get the same iniative regen WITHOUT having to invest anything in traits or skills to achieve it. So they become even more OP. And this was Anets attempt to nerf thief. haha they are truely the most clueless balancers anyone has ever seen No wonder I quit this game and when I did play recently I couldn’t motivate myself to even pay attention when I was playing. Joke game.

Noc.2459:

I saw the fight between you and Shad.

Do you want Pistol Whip nerfs because you didnt beat a thief using it in a 2vs1.

http://www.twitch.tv/blu42/c/3791781

Maybe you should write an application on the forums to get into the balance team of Arenanet.

thank you for sharing this

I love how people complain about any build they dont play. we see good Hambow warrs complaining here, good fear necros, mesmers, guards but none of them talks on other posts about how they have op builds… LMAO its so much easier to try to fuk others to get the attention away from you

i didn’t even go through all the tears, but most likely is a L2P issue. Dodging is such a hard mechanic for most to wrap their heads around, that and blind.

Is this 2012 again?

Also, how is s/p easier to play than d/p? At least s/p doesn’t have braindead stealthing every 3 seconds.

Evilek.5690:

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

The thief is the same as a warrior.Warrior/Thief is anti noobs class and no H/B warrior is not OP only unskilled noobs say “OMG Warrior is so OP !!”

I think you either came around recently or forgot about many of the nerfs to D/D and D/P:

HS’s damage has been nerfed pretty hard (which is ok since it should be a finisher, not a skill to spam).

Stealthing with D/P in SA specs also got nerfed through the Infusion of Shadow nerf.

Headshot also got nerfed a while back.

And S/D as a little nerf? The sword 2 used to break stun and teleport instantly while Larcenous Strike used to steal 2 boons for less initiative. Now the sword 2 doesn’t break stun or even teleport while stunned and #3 steals half as many boons for twice the cost.

The biggest reason people use S/P isn’t because it got some huge buff. Almost nothing has changed for S/P builds in a long, long time. People use it now because the other options thieves used to use got nerfed.

I like those comments where people say that they did quit this game because ANet doesn’t see any need in nerfing Thieves.

Or when they do nerf a Thief they also give some boost as re compensation, so the nerf won’t be such a huge impact.

The joys of the initiative system! Thief will never be balanced because of it and that is just how it is. Thief is designed in a horrible way that leads to spam. If it is not PW getting spammed it is Shortbow #3. Not to mention withdraw. 15s cd heal that also evades, has no cast time, cures crippled, chilled and immobilized.