Guild Wars 2

No I am not joking. No matter what way they push to balance some builds will end up on top. Whether those builds are considered OP are not is in the eyes of the populace. Despite the whining that we hear (much of it legitimate) the fact remains players will play builds that win. It really is that simple. With the list of things players ask nerfs for I think it might be impossible to balance any of this where builds are relatively equal.

I think given the slow balance, and the fact that balance updates generally just shift the meta, (which doesn’t balance the playing field) that playing cheese builds is only logical for some players. There is no reason to force yourself to play builds that you feel are balanced.

Play what works for you. Whether the build be considered OP or not play what works for you. You may get angry tells from time to time, or the other teams may hurl insults. I am being completely serious when i say this. None of this matters. What really matters is winning.

cheese strats are easy ways to win tpvp matches. kitten like scorpion wire thief in sky ham and spectral grasp necro win more often than not

k except im bored

MMOs are just a bad platform for competitive play.

When you take 2 classes and give them different skills, one class will always situationally be better than the other. When you add more classes and more skills, the situation only gets worse.

When you do TeamQ, you don’t know who your opponents are, what classes they are, what builds they are running until you’re in the arena. By then you’re locked into your build.

It’s not fair + balanced and its never going to be fair + balanced. You may as well run any build you want.

Peetee.9406:

When you do TeamQ, you don’t know who your opponents are, what classes they are, what builds they are running until you’re in the arena. By then you’re locked into your build.
.

if i remember correct you can switch character during the match. Some serious circle capers always switch to counter enemy team.

I dont know all the cheeze builds too but a lot of them are dumb in roaming / 1v1 in WvW, mm necro , spirit ranger for example

cheese mode on

Ya the more people play broken stuff, the more pressure there is on the developer to tweak it.

This happened in Starcraft really early on – nobody played anything but Zerg because of the early all-in push.

If everyone plays OP stuff then it’ll be obvious that nobody’s really got any other legitimate options or its too easy to win with that strategy.

When people play “what they want to play” and win despite the build’s inferiority and being carried by their teammates, it looks like the game is balanced when it isn’t.

There’s cheese and then there’s meta builds. Sometimes the two overlap but they are not the same. Play cheese if you are not interested in improving your gameplay.

i dont care for chesse builds or what is op – i stopped playing necro the day it got buffed

the class need to be fun to play and at moment its shatter mesmer for me and sometimes ele (i suck kitten this^^) or engi is fine too

i dont have any respect for warrior spiritranger necro or whatever in my matches and rly dont care bout them – hard to see a difference from bad to good player

But – i know a player from my server playing shatter mesmer and he is most time in top 20 EU soloQ and teamQ – THAT is skill

Qaelyn.7612:

play what you like.

exactly. and that is why a massive amount of the pvp population has stopped playing this game

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

There’s cheese and then there’s meta builds. Sometimes the two overlap but they are not the same. Play cheese if you are not interested in improving your gameplay.

Alas, for some classes they overlap almost entirely. Like warrior.

There is a difference between OP builds that are hard to learn and OP builds that requires zero skill. In this game, obviously there is no class-skill required.

I have yet to find a single claimed so-called “zero skill OP build” that actually was.

Qaelyn.7612:

I have yet to find a single claimed so-called “zero skill OP build” that actually was.

want example? s/d thief.. no skill about positioning needed nor enemy skill animation.. port and evadespam.

That’s your example? Laughable. Sure you can dance around a lot as a thief but to actually be effective takes considerable skill. I know, as I’ve tried.

Ideally, team compositions that are cheese will be easy to play, but have easy counters to them. Whereas balanced builds should be able to deal with anything, but require skill to pull off well. Somehow anet missed the mark on this. The game is better now, but its still not where it should be.

Romek.4201:

But – i know a player from my server playing shatter mesmer and he is most time in top 20 EU soloQ and teamQ – THAT is skill

Thank you for the cookies! <3

ye even when you say always “q pop – sry” when i ask something^^

Romek.4201:

ye even when you say always “q pop – sry” when i ask something^^

Oh sry write again, don’t worry! Mostly i forgot to write after a match..

Qaelyn.7612:

I have yet to find a single claimed so-called “zero skill OP build” that actually was.

Spirit ranger

Syndarin Eledhwen.6513:

Romek.4201:

But – i know a player from my server playing shatter mesmer and he is most time in top 20 EU soloQ and teamQ – THAT is skill

Thank you for the cookies! <3

Alashya always carrying hard.

Well enough off topic stuff. I don’t think that rerolling cheese and winning is the solution. What’s the point of playing a build that wins you games if you don’t have fun? If a win doesn’t feel rewarding what’s the point of earning it? Of course you can’t expect to win every game if you don’t go cheese mode (pun unintended) but eh.

DPS-Guard is pretty much the only thing I’m playing and I’m doing pretty ok with it (constantly top 50 TeamQ). I won’t reroll if DPS-Guard will become meta (I’m not THAT hipster) but i won’t reroll meta just because i get facerolled by a spirit-ranger either.

(inb4 somebody tries to tell me DPS-Guard would already op. I’m talking about TeamQ. Play DPS-Guard in top 100 matches before you say anything.)

Qaelyn.7612:

That’s your example? Laughable. Sure you can dance around a lot as a thief but to actually be effective takes considerable skill. I know, as I’ve tried.

well it seems you are just to bad to play the easiest build for thief.. i mean if a build needs no skill and u cant play it what does it say about yourself? and i said not its a op build. but its a cheese build where these 2 parts takes no skill. you can ignore them. and the enemy cant position themself.. just no reason too as long a s/d thief is in enemy team.

what does effective mean? jumping in aoe and hoping to survive as glas canon? holding a point? or roaming and killing?

hooma.9642:

well it seems you are just to bad to play the easiest build for thief.. i mean if a build needs no skill and u cant play it what does it say about yourself?

What it says is that I am a player who doesn’t have enough skill to play a thief effectively, which was my point in saying there’s no such thing as a ‘zero skill build’.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ahuba.6430:

Qaelyn.7612:

play what you like.

exactly. and that is why a massive amount of the pvp population has stopped playing this game

that is all right.

once the purist 100% sPvP players have left the scene, the PvE / WvW players will move in to save sPvP.

Ok, enough of this stuff:

cheesy builds aren’t good for casuals either.

Ideally, the game should make you a better player the longer you play it, and should reward different sorts of skills (reflexes, tactical awereness, strategic experience, ability to adapt and so on…).

Cheesy builds should be changed for builds that require less reflexes, but much more strategy.

Example: a build might achieve high damage and high survivability. BUT hitting people should be HARD. Here, even tanky classes require skills now. They don’t reward fast reflexes, they reward tactical awareness and a fitting strategy.

Qaelyn.7612:

hooma.9642:

well it seems you are just to bad to play the easiest build for thief.. i mean if a build needs no skill and u cant play it what does it say about yourself?

What it says is that I am a player who doesn’t have enough skill to play a thief effectively, which was my point in saying there’s no such thing as a ‘zero skill build’.

well if u would read my part i said s/d thief has 2 aspects that are important in pvp that requires no skill to be effektiv. u need no skill for positioning with mainhand sword as thief and with s/d u need less knowledge what to dodge and what not.. so its require a high amount of less skill.. ever tried staff zerker ele? these 2 points are important for other classes but not for s/d thiefs.

now if s/d requires so less to be effektiv what happens if a player plays s/d thief who knows how to positioning themself or what to dodge? right, he is nearly unkillable except with other cheese. see how unbalanced the weaponset suddenly is? and yet thiefs still cry and complain.. i think so many thief player just want to be warriors with stealth, jumping in the middle of the action and survive. but thats not the roll of the thief.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Ideally, team compositions that are cheese will be easy to play, but have easy counters to them. Whereas balanced builds should be able to deal with anything, but require skill to pull off well. Somehow anet missed the mark on this. The game is better now, but its still not where it should be.

I have to say I agree with this. I do not understand why the easy to play builds are often also the overall best build to play and I do hope this will change.

I think people should be rewarded for improving and practicing on the harder to play builds. Currently, the easy ones counter many of the harder to play builds. This provides little reason to learn and master a build that is more difficult to pull off.

Some classes are forced into the easy to play builds, because they don’t have any viable alternatives. I am hoping to see a change in this as well.

Reesha.7901:

Currently, the easy ones counter many of the harder to play builds.

Just because it’s harder to play, doesn’t mean that it “should be” better. Most of the time, if a build is harder to play, then it’s just a bad build. You’re not going to see a killshot warrior mixed with a thief (with shadow refuge) on a point in tournament play, for example.

What “shouldn’t be” acceptable, is certain team compositions that require little teamwork to pull off well, and outperform, in comparison to those that do require that teamwork.

Chicago Jack.5647:

What “shouldn’t be” acceptable, is certain team compositions that require little teamwork to pull off well, and outperform, in comparison to those that do require that teamwork.

I don’t disagree with this part.
On the other hand I still think it would be nice to have the more difficult builds more rewarding. Look at rangers?
The only thing they have is the spirit build. I think it is flawed that the easiest spec is also the one that performs the best, but they do not really have an alternative.

You are correct that there are “bad builds” as well.
The best build will always be the one that performs the best for the situation it is designed to master, regardless of whether or not people find it cheesy.

I really dislike builds that mostly rely on passive abilities and simple rotations with relatively little effort required. Unfortunately for me, the only class I have any PvP experience with is necromancer, both pre- and post-June 25 patch. I have since resorted to power builds or more unorthodox builds on my necromancer in the few occasions that I play PvP or WvW.

Abilities in the game should reward skill. Passive abilities and traits like Dhuumfire and Healing Signet are far too powerful with too little skill (i.e. none) involved. People kitten about AoE fear, but it at least needs to be aimed. People complain about backstab thieves, but it still takes setup and effort. Builds like minion or spirit builds, on the other hand, are extremely passive and should not be so low risk-high reward.